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unkownfl
02-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Could I legally tow a trailer rated more than what my truck is even though the trailers actual weight is within the trucks limits? Say I pull a 12k rated dump trailer but it only weighs 8k and my truck is rated 10k? This is assuming my tongue weight is within specs too.

knox gsl
02-07-2012, 06:23 PM
Yes you can safely do that but the DOT will not see it that way. You need to have a CDL to pull a trailer rated over 10K and used for commercial purposes other than farming in most states. This is why you will see alot of trailers that come with a pair of 5,200lb axles under them only rated for 9,990lbs.

unkownfl
02-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Yes you can safely do that but the DOT will not see it that way. You need to have a CDL to pull a trailer rated over 10K and used for commercial purposes other than farming in most states. This is why you will see alot of trailers that come with a pair of 5,200lb axles under them only rated for 9,990lbs.

I have a Class A +hazmat

knox gsl
02-07-2012, 06:29 PM
I have a Class A +hazmat

You should be golden then.

CLARK LAWN
02-07-2012, 09:06 PM
People running at the mouth again without knowing what they are talking about. Just because your trailer is over 10K doesn't mean you need ranch a CDL. If the combo is under 26K you don't need a CDL.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bigred350
02-07-2012, 09:09 PM
Yes you can safely do that but the DOT will not see it that way. You need to have a CDL to pull a trailer rated over 10K and used for commercial purposes other than farming in most states. This is why you will see alot of trailers that come with a pair of 5,200lb axles under them only rated for 9,990lbs.



Sorry but your way wrong.
You Do not need a CDL to pull a 10k trailer. You only need DOT Numbers if your truck and trailer are rated over 10k combined. Which is basically a 1/2 ton truck with a tandem axle trailer, but only if its for commercial use.....(you have your business name on the side of the truck)

You need a CDL if your truck alone or truck and trailer combined is rated over 26,000#.

knox gsl
02-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Sorry but your way wrong.
You Do not need a CDL to pull a 10k trailer. You only need DOT Numbers if your truck and trailer are rated over 10k combined. Which is basically a 1/2 ton truck with a tandem axle trailer, but only if its for commercial use.....(you have your business name on the side of the truck)

You need a CDL if your truck alone or truck and trailer combined is rated over 26,000#.

Well to be honest it don't really matter to me or the OP that much as we both have a class A CDL. The last time I looked at the requiments for trailers the most you could be rated for in a commercial without CDL was 10K. Seems like you need to be a lawyer to be able to do anything anymore.

unkownfl
02-08-2012, 12:38 AM
Sorry but your way wrong.
You Do not need a CDL to pull a 10k trailer. You only need DOT Numbers if your truck and trailer are rated over 10k combined. Which is basically a 1/2 ton truck with a tandem axle trailer, but only if its for commercial use.....(you have your business name on the side of the truck)

You need a CDL if your truck alone or truck and trailer combined is rated over 26,000#.

I'm not sure if this is true for every state. I believe the DOT number thing is a State thing? This whole DOT is nuts. I can't think of a single person that has a CDL that actually knows anything besides how to drive the truck and inspect the truck. The test doesn't ask when you need to go into a weigh station what numbers to have etc.

professional
02-08-2012, 08:03 AM
If the trailer is rated/tagged for 10001# or more you need a combination CDL. If you are driving a straight truck rated/tagged for 26001# or more you need a class A CDL. The pulling truck needs to be registered for the amount of GVWR of the truck and trailer together. I asked a Motor Carrier Officer to come to my place and perform a 'stop' on my set up.(I would recommend this) He said that he would have cited me out on the road(which is way I asked him to come to my place) with how my truck was registered. It was registered for the GVWR of the truck only. He said that anything over that amount is a weight infraction. I went to the DMV and had it changed, it is $80 more per year.

CLARK LAWN
02-09-2012, 01:57 AM
If the trailer is rated/tagged for 10001# or more you need a combination CDL. If you are driving a straight truck rated/tagged for 26001# or more you need a class A CDL. The pulling truck needs to be registered for the amount of GVWR of the truck and trailer together. I asked a Motor Carrier Officer to come to my place and perform a 'stop' on my set up.(I would recommend this) He said that he would have cited me out on the road(which is way I asked him to come to my place) with how my truck was registered. It was registered for the GVWR of the truck only. He said that anything over that amount is a weight infraction. I went to the DMV and had it changed, it is $80 more per year.

WOW!!! you couldn't be more wrong with your info. As long as the combo is under 26001# then you dont need a CDL regardless of the GVWR of the trailer. You need a Class B for a straight truck over 26000# and even then you can pull a trailer up to 10k.

You are correct about the truck being plated for the GCWR of both the truck and the trailer

professional
02-09-2012, 07:12 AM
I looked up the info on Virginia's website and it says this for commercial vehicle (plus much, much, much more):

A single vehicle with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more.
A combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more if the vehicle being towed (trailer) has a GVWR of more than 10000 pounds.

You are correct about the class needed for the straight truck. The reason I called and had the Motor Carrier Enforcement Officer come to my place and perform a stop was because I wanted someone to clarify all of these laws to me. We mostly concentrated on the ones that pertained to my setup. I had a friend in the business get stopped and he was short the combination CDL because of how he had his truck and trailer registered. The officer told me that he writes a lot of his tickets for these types of infractions. That is why I said I recommend doing this. It was very informative. There are many, many opportunities for other combinations causing different classifications, this is how it applies to mine here in Virginia.

unkownfl
02-09-2012, 09:07 PM
professional, just to clear one more thing up you wrote. The combined total of payload and trailer is called GCWR this is all a truck can pull and have for a payload basically all the weight being forced onto the road at all wheels totaled up. The GVWR is what the truck sees this includes the tongue weight that the truck is seeing plus the weight of the tow vehicle.

professional
02-10-2012, 07:22 AM
I like the way you put that. The state wants to know what 'the road sees'. That is what they have to repair over time. As we all know, you can over load these trucks a little and not hurt them. Where you get into trouble is if you were to get stopped, when they scaled you, it would be over weight if the vehicle was not registered to put that much 'on the road'. GVWR would be the amount of weight for the registered vehicle. The pulling vehicle and the towed vehicle are registered seperately and should be tallied as such. Any amount that counts toward those totals is included.(ie. tongue weight) GCWR is the pulling and towed vehicle combined. My friend that got checked said that they put him onto portable scales. They check the front wheels, the rear wheels and both trailer axles. The state then knows were the weight is in the combination. If you have too much tongue weight, they would know it.

unkownfl
02-10-2012, 01:06 PM
I like the way you put that. The state wants to know what 'the road sees'. That is what they have to repair over time. As we all know, you can over load these trucks a little and not hurt them. Where you get into trouble is if you were to get stopped, when they scaled you, it would be over weight if the vehicle was not registered to put that much 'on the road'. GVWR would be the amount of weight for the registered vehicle. The pulling vehicle and the towed vehicle are registered seperately and should be tallied as such. Any amount that counts toward those totals is included.(ie. tongue weight) GCWR is the pulling and towed vehicle combined. My friend that got checked said that they put him onto portable scales. They check the front wheels, the rear wheels and both trailer axles. The state then knows were the weight is in the combination. If you have too much tongue weight, they would know it.

Those are the portable scales and all dot have them in their trunks. Yes your vehicle will be rated front and rear axle rates.

Duffster
02-13-2012, 11:50 PM
You need to have a CDL to pull a trailer rated over 10K and used for commercial purposes other than farming in most states.

You are wrong here.

The last time I looked at the requiments for trailers the most you could be rated for in a commercial without CDL was 10K.

Sure. :rolleyes:

Can you even link us to the CDL requirements?

Basic literacy is suffice.

Duffster
02-13-2012, 11:53 PM
If the trailer is rated/tagged for 10001# or more you need a combination CDL. If you are driving a straight truck rated/tagged for 26001# or more you need a class A CDL.

Both of those statements are wrong.

Time to remove your head from arse.

professional
02-14-2012, 07:21 AM
Duffster, this info I got from the my colleague who received a citation for this as he sat along the side of the road, the VDOT website, and the officer I had come to my place to clarify this for me. There is a national set of guidlines that you must follow. Then each state has their variation with the national set as the minimum guideline to follow.

Landrus2
02-14-2012, 08:17 AM
That is why I love lawn site :waving:

Duffster
02-14-2012, 08:25 AM
Duffster, this info I got from the my colleague who received a citation for this as he sat along the side of the road, the VDOT website, and the officer I had come to my place to clarify this for me. There is a national set of guidlines that you must follow. Then each state has their variation with the national set as the minimum guideline to follow.

Are you incapable of looking up these regulations and verifying what would be needed yourself? Maybe you could share this website that you got this "info"?

It would be apparent that you are. What you posted is pure trip.

To post such bullsheet is counter you user name.

MDLawn
02-14-2012, 03:05 PM
Could I legally tow a trailer rated more than what my truck is even though the trailers actual weight is within the trucks limits? Say I pull a 12k rated dump trailer but it only weighs 8k and my truck is rated 10k? This is assuming my tongue weight is within specs too.

Here is how I've come to understand this. Your truck placard on the door states the trucks GVWR and FGAWR & RGAWR only correct? You can tow a heavier trailer than the GCWR as this is not listed on the door. I'm not recommending this nor do I think anyone should do this and if you cause a bad accident the lawyers will care more about the GCWR from the manufactuer and if you were towing more than that....have fun. But if your loaded trailer only weighs 8k total, and the GVWR of the trailer is 12k, and your truck is rated to tow 10k then what is the problem? You are only towing 8k pounds? Now if you have a 2,000lbs of stuff in the bed and a heavy tongue load you may go over your RGAWR. You'll get ticketed for that if they bring out the scales.

The problem arises if you are towing a 12k GVWR trailer and your truck has a GVWR of 14,001 or more. Then you are into CDL territory as the GCWR is now over 26,000lbs. The magic number is 26,001lbs. In NYS this is what I have come to understand.

The link is to New York State DMV CDL info so it may or may not apply to all but gives you the gist of the 26,000lb number.

http://dmv.ny.gov/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf

The next link talks about the "D" license in NYS (which is a basic drivers license) and how you can tow a trailer in excess of 10,000lbs as long as the GCWR is 26,000lbs or less.

http://www.dmv.ny.gov/ncdlc.htm

I'm posting relavent information to NYS and have yet to see others on LS post relavent information (hopefully my links work!!)

Have a good day everyone!!

Duffster
02-14-2012, 03:40 PM
Here is how I've come to understand this. Your truck placard on the door states the trucks GVWR and FGAWR & RGAWR only correct? You can tow a heavier trailer than the GCWR as this is not listed on the door. I'm not recommending this nor do I think anyone should do this and if you cause a bad accident the lawyers will care more about the GCWR from the manufactuer and if you were towing more than that....have fun. But if your loaded trailer only weighs 8k total, and the GVWR of the trailer is 12k, and your truck is rated to tow 10k then what is the problem? You are only towing 8k pounds? Now if you have a 2,000lbs of stuff in the bed and a heavy tongue load you may go over your RGAWR. You'll get ticketed for that if they bring out the scales.

The problem arises if you are towing a 12k GVWR trailer and your truck has a GVWR of 14,001 or more. Then you are into CDL territory as the GCWR is now over 26,000lbs. The magic number is 26,001lbs. In NYS this is what I have come to understand.

The link is to New York State DMV CDL info so it may or may not apply to all but gives you the gist of the 26,000lb number.

http://dmv.ny.gov/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf

The next link talks about the "D" license in NYS (which is a basic drivers license) and how you can tow a trailer in excess of 10,000lbs as long as the GCWR is 26,000lbs or less.

http://www.dmv.ny.gov/ncdlc.htm

I'm posting relavent information to NYS and have yet to see others on LS post relavent information (hopefully my links work!!)

Have a good day everyone!!

Now if what you posted had anything to do with the OP's question.

MDLawn
02-14-2012, 03:55 PM
Now if what you posted had anything to do with the OP's question.

I thought I did.......

Question:

"Could I legally tow a trailer rated more than what my truck is even though the trailers actual weight is within the trucks limits? Say I pull a 12k rated dump trailer but it only weighs 8k and my truck is rated 10k? This is assuming my tongue weight is within specs too."

My answer was:

Here is how I've come to understand this. Your truck placard on the door states the trucks GVWR and FGAWR & RGAWR only correct? You can tow a heavier trailer than the GCWR as this is not listed on the door. I'm not recommending this nor do I think anyone should do this and if you cause a bad accident the lawyers will care more about the GCWR from the manufactuer and if you were towing more than that....have fun. But if your loaded trailer only weighs 8k total, and the GVWR of the trailer is 12k, and your truck is rated to tow 10k then what is the problem? You are only towing 8k pounds? Now if you have a 2,000lbs of stuff in the bed and a heavy tongue load you may go over your RGAWR. You'll get ticketed for that if they bring out the scales.

BWSWI
02-14-2012, 05:03 PM
If the combo is under 26K you don't need a CDL.Posted via Mobile Device
Correct.^
Sorry but your way wrong.
You Do not need a CDL to pull a 10k trailer. You only need DOT Numbers if your truck and trailer are rated over 10k combined. Which is basically a 1/2 ton truck with a tandem axle trailer, but only if its for commercial use.....(you have your business name on the side of the truck)

You need a CDL if your truck alone or truck and trailer combined is rated over 26,000#.
Partially correct^
WOW!!! you couldn't be more wrong with your info. As long as the combo is under 26001# then you dont need a CDL regardless of the GVWR of the trailer. You need a Class B for a straight truck over 26000# and even then you can pull a trailer up to 10k.

You are correct about the truck being plated for the GCWR of both the truck and the trailer
Wrong^

A single vehicle with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more.
A combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more if the vehicle being towed (trailer) has a GVWR of more than 10000 pounds.
.
This ^
Both of those statements are wrong.
Time to remove your head from arse.
After you hear the "pop" read this.

Also-any one driving a (business) truck w/ a gvw of #10,000 lbs or more must have a medical card.

Duffster
02-15-2012, 10:42 AM
I thought I did........

He wasn't asking what DL he needs.

MDLawn
02-15-2012, 11:02 AM
He wasn't asking what DL he needs.

Did you even read the first paragraph I wrote? Had nothing to do with any drivers licensing requirements.

Here is what was in my first paragraph, please point out where I talk about licensing requirements in it.

Here is how I've come to understand this. Your truck placard on the door states the trucks GVWR and FGAWR & RGAWR only correct? You can tow a heavier trailer than the GCWR as this is not listed on the door. I'm not recommending this nor do I think anyone should do this and if you cause a bad accident the lawyers will care more about the GCWR from the manufactuer and if you were towing more than that....have fun. But if your loaded trailer only weighs 8k total, and the GVWR of the trailer is 12k, and your truck is rated to tow 10k then what is the problem? You are only towing 8k pounds? Now if you have a 2,000lbs of stuff in the bed and a heavy tongue load you may go over your RGAWR. You'll get ticketed for that if they bring out the scales.

BWSWI
02-15-2012, 11:14 AM
WOW!!! you couldn't be more wrong with your info. As long as the combo is under 26001# then you dont need a CDL regardless of the GVWR of the trailer. You need a Class B for a straight truck over 26000# and even then you can pull a trailer up to 10k.

This is correct ^, I misread when I made my other post :dizzy:
My apologies to CLARK LAWN :drinkup:

Duffster
02-15-2012, 12:17 PM
This is correct ^, I misread when I made my other post :dizzy:
My apologies to CLARK LAWN :drinkup:

I was going to ask you what was wrong with it.

Lawn Pawn
02-17-2012, 03:48 PM
I have not read all the posts... but I can tell you what I see with my own two eyes when I'm sitting in a big box farm store parking lot.

I would say 90% of the 3/4 ton or larger trucks... pulling tandem axle trailers that to me appear to be 10,000# or over, have no DOT numbers on them.

I spent lots of time on the phone yesterday and finally talked to a DOT guy, and we do require DOT#s on anything over 10,000 total.

All I'm saying is... what the law says and what they enforce can be two different things depending on where you live.

MDLawn
02-17-2012, 04:07 PM
I have not read all the posts... but I can tell you what I see with my own two eyes when I'm sitting in a big box farm store parking lot.

I would say 90% of the 3/4 ton or larger trucks... pulling tandem axle trailers that to me appear to be 10,000# or over, have no DOT numbers on them.

I spent lots of time on the phone yesterday and finally talked to a DOT guy, and we do require DOT#s on anything over 10,000 total.

All I'm saying is... what the law says and what they enforce can be two different things depending on where you live.


I know in NY if the GVWR OR GCWR are 10,001lbs or more you need DOT#'s. My previous 06 F250 was 9400 GVWR so hooking up a very small 900lb GVWR trailer would require DOT #'s. But like you said if depends on enforcement. I know one area that has tons of enforcement and others were you're lucky to even see a police car.

Mark Oomkes
02-17-2012, 04:18 PM
Yes you can safely do that but the DOT will not see it that way. You need to have a CDL to pull a trailer rated over 10K and used for commercial purposes other than farming in most states. This is why you will see alot of trailers that come with a pair of 5,200lb axles under them only rated for 9,990lbs.

People running at the mouth again without knowing what they are talking about. Just because your trailer is over 10K doesn't mean you need ranch a CDL. If the combo is under 26K you don't need a CDL.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well to be honest it don't really matter to me or the OP that much as we both have a class A CDL. The last time I looked at the requiments for trailers the most you could be rated for in a commercial without CDL was 10K. Seems like you need to be a lawyer to be able to do anything anymore.

If the trailer is rated/tagged for 10001# or more you need a combination CDL. If you are driving a straight truck rated/tagged for 26001# or more you need a class A CDL. The pulling truck needs to be registered for the amount of GVWR of the truck and trailer together. I asked a Motor Carrier Officer to come to my place and perform a 'stop' on my set up.(I would recommend this) He said that he would have cited me out on the road(which is way I asked him to come to my place) with how my truck was registered. It was registered for the GVWR of the truck only. He said that anything over that amount is a weight infraction. I went to the DMV and had it changed, it is $80 more per year.

WOW!!! you couldn't be more wrong with your info. As long as the combo is under 26001# then you dont need a CDL regardless of the GVWR of the trailer. You need a Class B for a straight truck over 26000# and even then you can pull a trailer up to 10k.

You are correct about the truck being plated for the GCWR of both the truck and the trailer

I looked up the info on Virginia's website and it says this for commercial vehicle (plus much, much, much more):

A single vehicle with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more.
A combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26001 pounds or more if the vehicle being towed (trailer) has a GVWR of more than 10000 pounds.

You are correct about the class needed for the straight truck. The reason I called and had the Motor Carrier Enforcement Officer come to my place and perform a stop was because I wanted someone to clarify all of these laws to me. We mostly concentrated on the ones that pertained to my setup. I had a friend in the business get stopped and he was short the combination CDL because of how he had his truck and trailer registered. The officer told me that he writes a lot of his tickets for these types of infractions. That is why I said I recommend doing this. It was very informative. There are many, many opportunities for other combinations causing different classifications, this is how it applies to mine here in Virginia.

That is why I love lawn site :waving:

Always good entertainment, isn't it?

Are you incapable of looking up these regulations and verifying what would be needed yourself? Maybe you could share this website that you got this "info"?

It would be apparent that you are. What you posted is pure trip.

To post such bullsheet is counter you user name.

Dangit, all kinds of multi-quotes for nothing. Can't believe Duffster didn't get around to it until page 2. Where's DVS when you need him?

So did we get it all straightened out now?

Or should we discuss air break endorsements?

Or, do I need a tanker endorsement on a truck with a GVW of 26K?

PS Even better than Clark beat Duffster to the punch with CORRECT information. Kudos

unkownfl
02-17-2012, 07:39 PM
So I found the information I need out. I can pull whatever I want as long as I don't exceed the GVWR of either vehicle. They don't care about the GCWR hence why it's not posted on the vehicle. Unless you have approved modifications or a permit you must remain under the GVWR.

CLARK LAWN
02-17-2012, 09:07 PM
If your GCWR exceeds 26,000 and your trailer is over 10k then you need a CDL and all the other stuff that goes along with it.
Posted via Mobile Device

unkownfl
02-17-2012, 09:13 PM
If your GCWR exceeds 26,000 and your trailer is over 10k then you need a CDL and all the other stuff that goes along with it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes you would need a Class A then.