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View Full Version : New ZTR mower with Foot Brake


djagusch
02-08-2012, 10:42 PM
Just looking at the Scag website. They came out with a 61" Freedom Z with some new features. One new feature is a foot brake (left foor). It acts as a brake and parking brake, no need to take the hands off the handles.

Guessing it's the same braking band set up seen on mowers with just a foot lever instead of hand lever.

For the guys saying they wanted brakes on a mower here's a start.

weeze
02-08-2012, 11:06 PM
that's how the deere is. really you don't need brakes on a ztr. i never use mine for anything other than a parking brake. you can just stop pushing forwards on the handles to come to a stop or pull back on the handles to go in reverse.

djagusch
02-08-2012, 11:12 PM
that's how the deere is. really you don't need brakes on a ztr. i never use mine for anything other than a parking brake. you can just stop pushing forwards on the handles to come to a stop or pull back on the handles to go in reverse.

I know but research threads on brakes and some think it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Ridin' Green
02-08-2012, 11:17 PM
I like the idea of brakes for going down steep hills (whether long or short) in tighter areas. Saves on wear to the hydros and integrated brakes. I have a couple places where I mow that are in just such a place, and not having to pull back on the sticks (which sometimes cause skid marks) to maintain control would be a real boon to me.

One thing I like about the Deere's brakes is that they are a wet disk type and last well. I use mine everytime I transport, and whenever I park it anywhere.

orangemower
02-09-2012, 08:23 AM
If the brakes are not incorporated on the front caster similar to the Ted Brakes then they are worthless. Having brakes on the front of a ztr WILL save lives.

Patriot Services
02-09-2012, 09:06 AM
that's how the deere is. really you don't need brakes on a ztr. i never use mine for anything other than a parking brake. you can just stop pushing forwards on the handles to come to a stop or pull back on the handles to go in reverse.

You must not have any steep hills around. A ZTR can quickly get away from you and pulling back on the handles just leaves skid marks all the way to the bottom.:usflag:

orangemower
02-09-2012, 10:04 AM
You must not have any steep hills around. A ZTR can quickly get away from you and pulling back on the handles just leaves skid marks all the way to the bottom.:usflag:

yep, right into the lake. Make sure you have scuba gear on when you go over so you don't drown while pinned under the mower.

I think Jason mows flat lawns and doesn't even cut a lawn with a hill. If he did, he would understand the importance of actual brakes on the front and not just a parking brake.

djagusch
02-09-2012, 10:22 AM
yep, right into the lake. Make sure you have scuba gear on when you go over so you don't drown while pinned under the mower.

I think Jason mows flat lawns and doesn't even cut a lawn with a hill. If he did, he would understand the importance of actual brakes on the front and not just a parking brake.

I just don't see how smooth front tires will grip anymore in that slide situation. I have seen ted's video but it doesn't ever show a out of control mower. Mostly on tar which is not as slick as a sandy hill.
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Ridin' Green
02-09-2012, 12:59 PM
I just don't see how smooth front tires will grip anymore in that slide situation. I have seen ted's video but it doesn't ever show a out of control mower. Mostly on tar which is not as slick as a sandy hill.
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Unless he has taken them down, Ted has a few videos on ETA's site in the video library section that show him hammering his BB up and over a grassy/sandy berm at speed and slamming on his Ted Brakes to stop. He slides a little ways, but it is impressive in how much quicker the machine stops.

Nope, still there. Here you go-
You have to ignore it when he says that Kubota and Deere have front brakes in this video (third row from top, and center video). He meant front mounted brake pedals for the rear brakes-
http://www.everythingattachments.com/Implement-Video-Demonstrations-s/2999.htm

Half way down the list are two with him on a sandy hill. The first is the intro with some filmed on pavement, and the last half on sand/grass, and the second is al sand hill/ grass-

weaver
02-09-2012, 01:18 PM
Unless he has taken them down, Ted has a few videos on ETA's site in the video library section that show him hammering his BB up and over a grassy/sandy berm at speed and slamming on his Ted Brakes to stop. He slides a little ways, but it is impressive in how much quicker the machine stops.

Nope, still there. Here you go-
You have to ignore it when he says that Kubota and Deere have front brakes in this video (third row from top, and center video). He meant front mounted brake pedals for the rear brakes-
http://www.everythingattachments.com/Implement-Video-Demonstrations-s/2999.htm

Half way down the list are two with him on a sandy hill. The first is the intro with some filmed on pavement, and the last half on sand/grass, and the second is al sand hill/ grass-

Awesome find on that video. Do you have the front brakes on your mowers?

Ridin' Green
02-09-2012, 01:24 PM
Awesome find on that video. Do you have the front brakes on your mowers?

No, but I have been thinking pretty hard about trying them. I'm gonna have to call Ted and chat with him pretty soon.:)

crazymike
02-09-2012, 01:30 PM
If the brakes are not incorporated on the front caster similar to the Ted Brakes then they are worthless. Having brakes on the front of a ztr WILL save lives.

How many people do you know who died from not being able to stop there mower?

orangemower
02-09-2012, 01:41 PM
How many people do you know who died from not being able to stop there mower?
I don't know anyone personally but I read of more the four people that were killed just last year when the mower slid off a wall into a lake.
Considering that when a mower is driving down hill and the only thing that can do it is the back wheels, well what happens? Yeah, the back tires just slide. With front brakes it will stop very fast and will slide very little.
I know you don't want to do this but if you take the braking ability away from the front of your truck and only have the back brakes working. Try to stop fast. The rear tires will just slide to a stop and will take aot longer to get it to stop.
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weeze
02-09-2012, 08:31 PM
You must not have any steep hills around. A ZTR can quickly get away from you and pulling back on the handles just leaves skid marks all the way to the bottom.:usflag:

hitting the brake will do the same thing. you will just slide on down the hill. :laugh: the key is mow without needing to hit the brakes or pull the levers back. i never pull back on the levers when going down a steep hill nor do i hit the brake because it will leave tire marks. i just ride it down to the bottom if it happens. it's always best to mow side to side on hills and turn uphill so that way you are always in control. never turn downhill which can make the mower lose traction and start rolling downhill out of control.

weeze
02-09-2012, 08:33 PM
yep, right into the lake. Make sure you have scuba gear on when you go over so you don't drown while pinned under the mower.

I think Jason mows flat lawns and doesn't even cut a lawn with a hill. If he did, he would understand the importance of actual brakes on the front and not just a parking brake.

see post above and no my mower doesn't have front brakes and most of them don't. i do cut one yard that's pretty steep. you should never cut going down a hill that has a lake or drop off at the bottom of it. :laugh:

if you can operate a mower correctly then you don't need brakes. if it's that bad then it's a hill you shouldn't be mowing with a ztr anyways. use a walkbehind or a trimmer to cut it.

orangemower
02-10-2012, 10:30 AM
see post above and no my mower doesn't have front brakes and most of them don't. i do cut one yard that's pretty steep. you should never cut going down a hill that has a lake or drop off at the bottom of it. :laugh:

if you can operate a mower correctly then you don't need brakes. if it's that bad then it's a hill you shouldn't be mowing with a ztr anyways. use a walkbehind or a trimmer to cut it.lol Jason. You make it sound like I've never operated a mower. Obviously you don't cut any lawns with any hills. Brakes on the front casters WILL save lives period.
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orangemower
02-10-2012, 10:33 AM
Ask Richard Martin to post a few links to the poor souls that died from a mower landing on them.
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djagusch
02-10-2012, 11:28 AM
lol Jason. You make it sound like I've never operated a mower. Obviously you don't cut any lawns with any hills. Brakes on the front casters WILL save lives period.
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I would replace "will" with "could". The operator still needs to know how and when to use them. Also if you are talking super extreme hills, a small hole the wheel catches when braking could make a mower flip. Also don't forget that with brakes some would do hills they normally wouldn't because of having brakes, which puts more at risk.

Its a double edged sword to a point. I just have the thought that nothing can save everyone from themselves.
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orangemower
02-10-2012, 11:43 AM
Why do you think your truck has brakes on the front and rear? It's no different then if they were on a mower.
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mowerbrad
02-10-2012, 11:59 AM
I personally don't mow enough lawns with hills to justify the cost of putting front brakes on my mower. But I can see exactly why they work...

When a mower is going down a hill, more weight transfers to the front of the mower, thus giving the rear wheels less weight and traction. So your brakes integrated into the hydros or even your parking brake are going to absolutely nothing to stop your mower once those rear wheels lose their traction. With the front brakes, since more weight is transferred to the front casters, you can actually help stop the machine better. It doesn't matter that front casters are smooth, if you put enough weight onto something, it will gain enough friction to stop the machine.

I know everyone's experience is different with hills. Some people live in areas where their steepest hill is hardly anything because their terrain is just so flat there. But at the same time, others may live in areas that are incredibly hilly and where 15-20 degree hills are common and considered "the norm".

I can tell you right now, that I have mowed hills that caused my mower to do a wheelie going up the hill. I've done hills going sideways that I thought my mower was about to flip over on. We don't mow ditches here, they are too steep. Usually if you do maintain a ditch (usually its not so much maintaining as cutting back the overgrowth so you can see when coming out the driveway) you will have to use a string trimmer, most ditches here are 5' deep (more or less) and have sides that are well over 45 degrees. It would be impossible to use a mower on the ditches.

If a mower loses traction while going down a hill, there is no stopping it until it gains traction again (which who knows when that will be). I don't care if you have been operating a ztr for 10 years or not, it doesn't matter how experienced you are as an operator, once your mower loses traction, there is no controlling it. It's exactly like driving on icy roads, if your car loses traction, there is no steering or controlling your car, it's going to go where ever it wants. Obviously there are things to do to prevent your mower from sliding, but if you are on an actual hill (not some small incline) and you lose traction, who knows the outcome.

John Deere's parking brake will do absolutely nothing to control your machine while going down a hill. It's a PARKING BRAKE, sure it can help slow down your mower but the only thing it is going to do is lock up your rear wheels and cause you to lose traction easier. And if you push the parking brake too far, it will trigger the safety switch and cut off the mower deck.

orangemower
02-10-2012, 12:05 PM
Good post Brad.
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djagusch
02-10-2012, 01:19 PM
I personally don't mow enough lawns with hills to justify the cost of putting front brakes on my mower. But I can see exactly why they work...

When a mower is going down a hill, more weight transfers to the front of the mower, thus giving the rear wheels less weight and traction. So your brakes integrated into the hydros or even your parking brake are going to absolutely nothing to stop your mower once those rear wheels lose their traction. With the front brakes, since more weight is transferred to the front casters, you can actually help stop the machine better. It doesn't matter that front casters are smooth, if you put enough weight onto something, it will gain enough friction to stop the machine.

I know everyone's experience is different with hills. Some people live in areas where their steepest hill is hardly anything because their terrain is just so flat there. But at the same time, others may live in areas that are incredibly hilly and where 15-20 degree hills are common and considered "the norm".

I can tell you right now, that I have mowed hills that caused my mower to do a wheelie going up the hill. I've done hills going sideways that I thought my mower was about to flip over on. We don't mow ditches here, they are too steep. Usually if you do maintain a ditch (usually its not so much maintaining as cutting back the overgrowth so you can see when coming out the driveway) you will have to use a string trimmer, most ditches here are 5' deep (more or less) and have sides that are well over 45 degrees. It would be impossible to use a mower on the ditches.

If a mower loses traction while going down a hill, there is no stopping it until it gains traction again (which who knows when that will be). I don't care if you have been operating a ztr for 10 years or not, it doesn't matter how experienced you are as an operator, once your mower loses traction, there is no controlling it. It's exactly like driving on icy roads, if your car loses traction, there is no steering or controlling your car, it's going to go where ever it wants. Obviously there are things to do to prevent your mower from sliding, but if you are on an actual hill (not some small incline) and you lose traction, who knows the outcome.

John Deere's parking brake will do absolutely nothing to control your machine while going down a hill. It's a PARKING BRAKE, sure it can help slow down your mower but the only thing it is going to do is lock up your rear wheels and cause you to lose traction easier. And if you push the parking brake too far, it will trigger the safety switch and cut off the mower deck.

Brad here is the thing though.

If they are in that situation the machine shouldn't be used there. If the terrain is the norm there a w/b is the solution.

If the the mower needs front brakes to be on the hill in control, it shouldn't be there.

Giving the operator brakes just is giving a false sense of security. It does not solve the problem of a machine that shouldn't be on the hill in the first place. Running a 60 rider or 60 w/b on one of these hills goes at the same pace so no productivity is lost.

You can't keep people from hurting themselves.

Ridin' Green
02-10-2012, 01:23 PM
John Deere's parking brake will do absolutely nothing to control your machine while going down a hill. It's a PARKING BRAKE, sure it can help slow down your mower but the only thing it is going to do is lock up your rear wheels and cause you to lose traction easier. And if you push the parking brake too far, it will trigger the safety switch and cut off the mower deck.

I would amend this to read-
John Deere's parking brake will do nothing to stop your mower once it's going downhill out of control, because as Brad stated, it's a parking brake. But, if you lose engine power for some reason, or traction because of a drive belt breaking, then yes, they'll do a lot more than not having them there to use at all.

The point about Deere's brakes being out front isn't that they do more than anyone else's brakes to stop an out of control machine. It is that they are so much easier to engage in a panic stop like the one Ted describes and demonstrates in his Ted Brake vid's I linked in an earlier post. Most guys clutch the sticks harder and harder once they realize that things have gotten out of control, and are not willing to throw them apart and reach around for a hand type parking brake. Having that pedal there to stab is a lot easier than any hand type to use, and the parking brake can provide at least some degree of control under this type of situation. Certainly far more than no brakes at all.

Patriot Services
02-10-2012, 01:24 PM
Here's another point as to why a manufacturer would start offering this option. How many LCO's have posted here the reason they buy a certain brand/model of ZTR is based on it's ability to "hold" a hill.
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Puddle of Oil
02-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Thank you mowerbrad!

weeze
02-10-2012, 06:49 PM
i never said front brakes wouldn't work. where did you get that from? i said most mowers do not come with front brakes and rear brakes wouldn't really work much on a steep hill. i do not cut steep hills all day if that's what you are asking. i think you just like to argue and it's getting old man. get a life already. it sounds to me like you lack the common sense to know when and when not to use a ztr mower on a hill. :D

williams lcm
02-10-2012, 07:45 PM
U dont need brakes. If the hill is to steep get a mower with a steering wheel. ZTR's are good will small to medium hills.. My JD Z950 can handles hills. Get a gizmo or the cub cadet ZTr with steering wheel.

mowerbrad
02-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Brad here is the thing though.

If they are in that situation the machine shouldn't be used there. If the terrain is the norm there a w/b is the solution.

If the the mower needs front brakes to be on the hill in control, it shouldn't be there.

Giving the operator brakes just is giving a false sense of security. It does not solve the problem of a machine that shouldn't be on the hill in the first place. Running a 60 rider or 60 w/b on one of these hills goes at the same pace so no productivity is lost.

You can't keep people from hurting themselves.

I completely agree!! There are places that a ztr should just NOT be brought, whether or not it has front brakes or not. I think they should be used as a tool to help maintain control on hills that your particular ztr is able to handle. They can help to prevent sliding on hills and causing damage to the customer's property. Obviously conditions change, some days the grass may be a little wet from the morning dew, some lawns may be thinner than others, etc., so having something to prevent sliding is a good thing.

I think it needs to be marketed (and maybe it already is) as something that aids in keeping control of your mower while going down hills. There should be no misconseptions about it allowing you to go on steeper hills than recommended by the manufacturer, it should just be something used for added safety on hilly terrain.

i never said front brakes wouldn't work. where did you get that from? i said most mowers do not come with front brakes and rear brakes wouldn't really work much on a steep hill. i do not cut steep hills all day if that's what you are asking. i think you just like to argue and it's getting old man. get a life already. it sounds to me like you lack the common sense to know when and when not to use a ztr mower on a hill. :D

I am sorry that you feel this way. I never said that you said front brakes wouldn't work. All I said was "I understand why they work..." which was not directed toward you and was just a general statement. I didn't mean to offend you, I know I did use your ditch example but that was really only used to show the difference between what one person experiences and what most other people are familiar with.

I've been in this industry for several years. I do have quite a bit of common sense and intelligence, especially when it involves the safety of myself while operating my equipment. I have owned 4 different ztr's over the last few years, each one is quite a bit different when it comes to performance on hills, depending on the style of the machine and how it is built. I know how my machines operate on steeper slopes and what their limitations are. I think it is important to know the limitations when it comes to our equipment.

I by no means know everything, I am always learning something new, no matter if I'm on here or working at my other jobs. I try to share information on the subjects when I have something beneficial to the thread/topic and that will help others increase their knowledge about a subject. I'm not on here to get into arguments with others. I am sorry that you have taken my post (and apparently previous posts also) as argumentative toward you.

I don't want to detract from this thread any further, so if you would like to discuss anything else, please feel free to shoot me a PM on here and we can discuss any concerns that you may have.

djagusch
02-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I completely agree!! There are places that a ztr should just NOT be brought, whether or not it has front brakes or not. I think they should be used as a tool to help maintain control on hills that your particular ztr is able to handle. They can help to prevent sliding on hills and causing damage to the customer's property. Obviously conditions change, some days the grass may be a little wet from the morning dew, some lawns may be thinner than others, etc., so having something to prevent sliding is a good thing.

I think it needs to be marketed (and maybe it already is) as something that aids in keeping control of your mower while going down hills. There should be no misconseptions about it allowing you to go on steeper hills than recommended by the manufacturer, it should just be something used for added safety on hilly terrain.


Do you know what mfg's state as to much slope is? What 15 degrees? It could be pouring rain on a super slick grass muck and you won't slip at 15 degrees. That is not the problem. The problem is people are trying to do 40 degrees with water at the bottom. That is the problem.

weeze
02-10-2012, 09:59 PM
I am sorry that you feel this way. I never said that you said front brakes wouldn't work. All I said was "I understand why they work..." which was not directed toward you and was just a general statement. I didn't mean to offend you, I know I did use your ditch example but that was really only used to show the difference between what one person experiences and what most other people are familiar with.

I've been in this industry for several years. I do have quite a bit of common sense and intelligence, especially when it involves the safety of myself while operating my equipment. I have owned 4 different ztr's over the last few years, each one is quite a bit different when it comes to performance on hills, depending on the style of the machine and how it is built. I know how my machines operate on steeper slopes and what their limitations are. I think it is important to know the limitations when it comes to our equipment.

I by no means know everything, I am always learning something new, no matter if I'm on here or working at my other jobs. I try to share information on the subjects when I have something beneficial to the thread/topic and that will help others increase their knowledge about a subject. I'm not on here to get into arguments with others. I am sorry that you have taken my post (and apparently previous posts also) as argumentative toward you.

I don't want to detract from this thread any further, so if you would like to discuss anything else, please feel free to shoot me a PM on here and we can discuss any concerns that you may have.


i wasn't talking to you brad. sorry if it seemed that way. i was talking to orangemower.

you can say something on here and even if it is 100% acurate and true some people on here will say something just to argue with you for the sake of arguing. it just gets old after 100 posts. i mean just check all of orangemower's posts. you will see for yourself. i'm not here to argue either but some on here insist on arguing with me no matter what i say.

mowerbrad
02-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Do you know what mfg's state as to much slope is? What 15 degrees? It could be pouring rain on a super slick grass muck and you won't slip at 15 degrees. That is not the problem. The problem is people are trying to do 40 degrees with water at the bottom. That is the problem.

If I remember correctly, most manufacturers have a 15-20 degree angle listed as the mowers max ("safe") slope.

And you are right, the problem is with operators taking the machines on too steep of slopes that have either water at the bottom or a fairly significant drop off of a retaining wall. Coupling the rated max slope for the machine (per the manufacturer) and some common sense, the problem can be solved. But since common sense seems to be a rare thing these days, you are right in what you said previously, "you can't keep people from hurting themselves".

mowerbrad
02-10-2012, 10:06 PM
i wasn't talking to you brad. sorry if it seemed that way. i was talking to orangemower.

you can say something on here and even if it is 100% acurate and true some people on here will say something just to argue with you for the sake of arguing. it just gets old after 100 posts. i mean just check all of orangemower's posts. you will see for yourself.

Oh, I apparently got lost in the thread...long day :waving:

weeze
02-10-2012, 10:08 PM
Oh, I apparently got lost in the thread...long day :waving:

no problem. i should have quoted him i guess but i was being lazy. :laugh:

205mx
02-10-2012, 10:40 PM
Just looking at the Scag website. They came out with a 61" Freedom Z with some new features. One new feature is a foot brake (left foor). It acts as a brake and parking brake, no need to take the hands off the handles.

Guessing it's the same braking band set up seen on mowers with just a foot lever instead of hand lever.

For the guys saying they wanted brakes on a mower here's a start.

one word:

Kubota

orangemower
02-11-2012, 09:08 AM
Jason, I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm just being straight forward. Seems you and a few others can't handle a debated discussion.
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weeze
02-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Jason, I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm just being straight forward. Seems you and a few others can't handle a debated discussion.
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i'm always straight forward. :cool2: