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Exact Rototilling
02-12-2012, 12:39 AM
Yes I know Ė Gary said they donít need to be changed but the issue of extending the life of the hydros on current mowers in service might be in order to extend service life etc.

Has anyone changed either single or dually hydro oil? What kind of oil - interval etc.

Landrus2
02-12-2012, 12:59 AM
Mobil 1 30w. First 100. There after 1000

Exact Rototilling
02-12-2012, 12:09 PM
Never knew Mobil 1 synthetic came in a straight 30 wt?

Is there some sort of Max fill indicator on the single and dual hydros?
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bare spot
02-24-2012, 04:15 AM
would like to do this before the season starts. think i would have to take it off the machine tip it up carefully to drain. not sure of the amount of fluid it should have at the moment, 2 qts, idk. like to see what comes out..

dutch1
02-24-2012, 08:41 AM
I pulled up the owners manual for a dually--supposedly a sealed unit and service free. Likely no filter involved.

http://betteroutdoorproducts.com/BodyPages/Other/Owners%20Manual%20Dually.pdf

What is BOP's advice on transaxle oil change? If it is a Hydrogear transaxle, their specs should state the capacity.

Exact Rototilling
02-24-2012, 10:45 AM
If my memory is correct Gary's approach is if it not broke don't fix it. However I'm with you I'd like to change the hydro oil in my 3 BOP mowers and get maximum service life from them from a preventive stand point.
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dutch1
02-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Who's Gary?

Exact Rototilling
02-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Who's Gary?
Owner founder of BOP
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StihlMechanic
02-24-2012, 12:34 PM
I want to say those are the same transmission(s) from say a Craftsman or MTD Lawn Tractor and homeowner ZTR's and require no service. If this is the case, there is no drain, and no dipstick, no filler cap, only a vent at the end of a hose from the top. Non serviceable other than a purge procedure to purge air if needed.

Exact Rototilling
02-24-2012, 12:44 PM
I want to say those are the same transmission(s) from say a Craftsman or MTD Lawn Tractor and homeowner ZTR's and require no service. If this is the case, there is no drain, and no dipstick, no filler cap, only a vent at the end of a hose from the top. Non serviceable other than a purge procedure to purge air if needed.
It's safe to say that in regards to the single hydro but the dually runs 2 seperate independant peerless hydros.......
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StihlMechanic
02-26-2012, 08:04 PM
It's safe to say that in regards to the single hydro but the dually runs 2 seperate independant peerless hydros.......
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they are the EZT integrated pump and motor, one right, one left. Same as a cub cadet RZT or any of the MTD resi ZTRs. They are sealed and unserviceable.

Exact Rototilling
02-26-2012, 09:34 PM
they are the EZT integrated pump and motor, one right, one left. Same as a cub cadet RZT or any of the MTD resi ZTRs. They are sealed and unserviceable.
Okay....Thanks for the input. Any idea what.the service life is on those? The quick dually is light weight at 400 pounds. Only extra duty is towing around a sulky.

On the single hydro there is a fill plug fwiw.
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StihlMechanic
02-26-2012, 09:46 PM
Okay....Thanks for the input. Any idea what.the service life is on those? The quick dually is light weight at 400 pounds. Only extra duty is towing around a sulky.

On the single hydro there is a fill plug fwiw.
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Ya know, I have seen those trannys last anywhere from 5 hours and be replaced under warranty, to lasting 1000+ hours problem free. Its really a chance game on them. Of coarse factors like weight and temps from use go into play, but really there isnt any "service" that will extend their life more or less. The good news is that you wont slam 100 buck on oil and filters:)

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 05:44 PM
This is a little dated, but I want to resurrect it.

The left hydro on my BOP dumped out a silver liquid while I had the deck lifted for a bit... If it's a sealed unit, am I right to assume I have a major malfunction?

And if so, is this a part I can ebay? I couldn't even find it on BOP's website.

djagusch
03-15-2012, 06:02 PM
This is a little dated, but I want to resurrect it.

The left hydro on my BOP dumped out a silver liquid while I had the deck lifted for a bit... If it's a sealed unit, am I right to assume I have a major malfunction?

And if so, is this a part I can ebay? I couldn't even find it on BOP's website.

Did the fluid come out of the vent? If so I would refill it through the vent. Slight guessing game on how much, maybe pull the vents off both hydro's stick something into the vent hole to gauge the fluid depth and fill so both are full.

I would email BOP if the hydro doesn't work after that or leaked from a non repairable area. They may respond to a part needing to be ordered.

From there I would look at the pump for a mfg/model/sn and call the company to see if you can order one from them since the mfg isn't open.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 07:09 PM
Just tore out the hydro assemblies. The hydro that's leaking is coming from the output shaft on top that runs the pulley/fan. It appears that some cord from (I assume) a broken belt wrapped up on the shaft at the seal. As it constricted via rotation, it must have somehow broke the seal around the shaft...

MANUFACTURER = HYDRO-GEAR
MODEL # = ZC-ACBB-2D2C=1DPX
SERIAL # = 8191B40079

There is a fill hole right on top that can be opened with an allen head.

Thus, if you're willing to remove the units (so as to flip them upside down to drain), it appears to be a simple thing to drain and refill.

While I can create a fluid depth-indicator using the non-leaky hydro, I am a little hesitant to pull the trigger on refilling these...

...but the cheapest deal I can find for a similar model (http://www.surpluscenter.com/pages/Catalog285-002.pdf) is $650 including shipping for a set, or $400 for one on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYDRO-GEAR-EZT-ZC-APBB-3D5A-1FPX-NEW-/250888645507?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6a20eb83).

So, feedback time: I have little to lose by trying, I suppose. But why was the fluid silvery? Is it some sort of bentonite grease? Any thoughts?


EDIT: Here's the flier from the manufacturer. (http://www.hydro-gear.com/Sales-Flyers/EZT%20BLN-0052.pdf)

EDIT 2: Here's a video from the manufacturer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-x_gCG9llo)

larryinalabama
03-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Passion cant you match a seal add what ever oil it takes and be in business?

Or weld it your good at that

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 07:28 PM
Here's a link where refilling these hydros is discussed. (http://tinyurl.com/ezt-hydro)

It has some conflicting information, but it discusses the process and the oil options and the quantities... Hope this helps some of you out - it's saving me several hundred dollars (or, at least, postponing the investment for a while).

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 07:29 PM
Passion cant you match a seal add what ever oil it takes and be in business?

Or weld it your good at that

I'm hoping to, but at the moment, I can't even get the friggin' pulley and fan off...

(And, for your personal interest, I'm dealing with this all because I've been building myself a 36" frankentank.)

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 07:48 PM
Here's a link to an exploded diagram of the unit. (http://www.m-and-d.com/pdfs/hydrogear/312-2200L_D-3753-02.pdf)

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-15-2012, 08:17 PM
Finally, here's the ACTUAL SERVICE REPAIR MANUAL from the manufacturer. (http://www.hydro-gear.com/Main/docs/service-repair-manuals/ezt---2100-bln-52622_p10.pdf)

Exact Rototilling
04-20-2013, 12:24 AM
Finally, here's the ACTUAL SERVICE REPAIR MANUAL from the manufacturer. (http://www.hydro-gear.com/Main/docs/service-repair-manuals/ezt---2100-bln-52622_p10.pdf)

**Update**

new location
http://www.hydro-gear.com/Main/docs/service-repair-manuals/ezt-(zt-2100-2200).pdf

Exact Rototilling
04-21-2013, 01:37 PM
So here is the service manual quotes:

Anyone do this and realistically how much hassle [total time] to do this, run in, purge air etc....?

For a long list of reasons I won't bore you with Mobil 1 Synthetic 15w-50 or Mobil V-Twin 20w-50 oil is an optimal selection due to high levels of ZDDP not found in most of today's whimpy oils. :hammerhead:

john_incircuit
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
Just changed the hydro oil on our Honda HRC mowers. We change it every 300 to 400 hrs. Always amazed how dirty the old hydro oil gets. New oil is fairly clear, the old oil is deep black. Our Quick 44 has now 400 hrs, we'll probably change the hydro oil at the end of the season.

Exact Rototilling
04-22-2013, 01:40 PM
Just changed the hydro oil on our Honda HRC mowers. We change it every 300 to 400 hrs. Always amazed how dirty the old hydro oil gets. New oil is fairly clear, the old oil is deep black. Our Quick 44 has now 400 hrs, we'll probably change the hydro oil at the end of the season.

Have you ever changed the hydro oil in a BOP mower...?

Single or dually...?

Since there is no drain plug on the dually transaxle has to be removed to drain out fill port...

Not sure if it worth the trouble especially the time fiddle factor or not....?..... vs buying a new unit...?

Then again after browsing the manual I printed off it looks like it just might be worth the hassle if one has the time...?

Dually tranny has to be removed completely then drained out the fill port .....since it was never designed to be changed by the user.

john_incircuit
04-22-2013, 06:34 PM
We have the Quick 44 dually, never changed the hydro oil on that mower, only on the Honda HRC's.

Can't image that the hydro oil gets dirty only on the Honda mowers. Not sure what is in the "dirt", but whatever it is, it can't be good in the long run.

Nate'sLawnCare
04-22-2013, 07:41 PM
I had to pull out the hydro units on my dually last year to change out a leaking axle seal (due to some landscape netting getting wrapped). Just follow the instructions in the BOP manual and it really helps to have a buddy when you lift the mower off and back on the hydro unit. You can pop off the fill port and check the level, mine was just a little low so I topped it off after replacing the seal. I didn't bother to replace the fluid and purge the unit since the mower only had about 150 hours on it at the time. I was able to find the seal number on the Hydro Gear drawings and I ordered it from a local Gravely dealer.

larryinalabama
04-22-2013, 09:43 PM
My Duelly has 1100 hours and the hydros seem to "wine" a little more than the used too.

Is it posible to sample the oil without removing the hydro?

How many hours can we expect from the hydro?

If one side goes out would it be best toreplace both sides, looks like the things re 400$ plus each?

Nate'sLawnCare
04-22-2013, 10:26 PM
My Duelly has 1100 hours and the hydros seem to "wine" a little more than the used too.

Is it posible to sample the oil without removing the hydro?

How many hours can we expect from the hydro?

If one side goes out would it be best toreplace both sides, looks like the things re 400$ plus each?

Unfortunately, the way they are mounted makes it impossible to access the fill ports without removing the units. If you do it by the instructions in the manual and have the right wrenches, you should be able to get them out in less than an hour. The nice thing is if you remove them this way, the whole drive system comes out together as a unit and sits on the wheels (on the 36 that is).

Exact Rototilling
04-22-2013, 10:33 PM
Well...if I get this it will well after the Spring rush.

My take is it will be worth the fiddle factor....when I have time....someday.
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Nate'sLawnCare
04-23-2013, 01:40 AM
Well...if I get this it will well after the Spring rush.

My take is it will be worth the fiddle factor....when I have time....someday.
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Yeah, getting the hydro drive "assembly" out and back in is not too bad, but if you're draining, refilling, then having to purge, that would be very time consuming. Unless of course you rigged up a way to purge it with the assembly off like with a drill and socket for the input shafts, just make sure you're turning it clockwise looking down at the pulley. Now you've got me really thinking about this for the future......

Exact Rototilling
04-23-2013, 09:59 AM
Yeah, getting the hydro drive "assembly" out and back in is not too bad, but if you're draining, refilling, then having to purge, that would be very time consuming. Unless of course you rigged up a way to purge it with the assembly off like with a drill and socket for the input shafts, just make sure you're turning it clockwise looking down at the pulley. Now you've got me really thinking about this for the future......

Yes that's what I was thinking myself.

Engine hoist or ceiling hoist, purge air with drill or rig up an electric motor with pully on a temp mount say a pallet etc.

After looking at the repair manual it seems a bit of preventative maintenance might be in order. Just doesn't seem that becoming obsessive compulsive about the process or getting it done is healthy :D

I bought a low hours 32 and 36 dually from another LS member last year and the newer ones felt smoother than my higher hour ones.

There is also an internal filter but tearing apart the unit is not worth it.

There is merit to the phrase, "if it's Not broke don't fix it".

Winter project. :)
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Nate'sLawnCare
04-23-2013, 05:12 PM
Yes that's what I was thinking myself.

Engine hoist or ceiling hoist, purge air with drill or rig up an electric motor with pully on a temp mount say a pallet etc.

After looking at the repair manual it seems a bit of preventative maintenance might be in order. Just doesn't seem that becoming obsessive compulsive about the process or getting it done is healthy :D

I bought a low hours 32 and 36 dually from another LS member last year and the newer ones felt smoother than my higher hour ones.

There is also an internal filter but tearing apart the unit is not worth it.

There is merit to the phrase, "if it's Not broke don't fix it".

Winter project. :)

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Yeah, that would be a good winter project. I think the internal "filters" are actually just strainers, so no big deal there. Maybe we can re-visit this in November ;)

larryinalabama
04-23-2013, 06:47 PM
Well how many hours can we expect from thes units?

Arent these the same units use in ZTRs like the Toro Timecutter?

Nate'sLawnCare
04-23-2013, 10:11 PM
Well how many hours can we expect from thes units?

Arent these the same units use in ZTRs like the Toro Timecutter?

I think you're right, these hydro units are also used in homeowner ZTRs that outweigh our BOPs by at least 400 lbs, so they're not being asked to work very hard. For that reason, I would expect the same life out of these as you'd get from any pump and wheel motor setup, 1200 to 1500 hours or more. I know one of the guys on here has a 44 Dually with over 1000 and going strong. After all this discussion, I'm planning to drain and refill both mine at 500 hours or so.

larryinalabama
04-24-2013, 07:14 PM
I think you're right, these hydro units are also used in homeowner ZTRs that outweigh our BOPs by at least 400 lbs, so they're not being asked to work very hard. For that reason, I would expect the same life out of these as you'd get from any pump and wheel motor setup, 1200 to 1500 hours or more. I know one of the guys on here has a 44 Dually with over 1000 and going strong. After all this discussion, I'm planning to drain and refill both mine at 500 hours or so.

Im at 1100 hours, Id like to buy another one, but it doesnt appear that wil happen.

Nate'sLawnCare
04-24-2013, 07:55 PM
Im at 1100 hours, Id like to buy another one, but it doesnt appear that wil happen.

I just ran across one on Craigslist in another state, it's a 36 Dually, with Step Saver and with the pull start Kawasaki 15 hp. It has never cut grass, zero cutting hours :dizzy: The guy bought it in late 2011 and starts it up once a month, it's been stored in heated garage. I would love to have another one, but just can't justify it right now with just me and my son mowing.

larryinalabama
04-25-2013, 07:49 PM
I just ran across one on Craigslist in another state, it's a 36 Dually, with Step Saver and with the pull start Kawasaki 15 hp. It has never cut grass, zero cutting hours :dizzy: The guy bought it in late 2011 and starts it up once a month, it's been stored in heated garage. I would love to have another one, but just can't justify it right now with just me and my son mowing.

Can you post a link Im not far from Nashville

Nate'sLawnCare
04-25-2013, 08:08 PM
Can you post a link Im not far from Nashville

Well, I'm in Nashville, North Carolina, but found the ad on SearchTempest in Pittsburgh, PA. It must be sold since I can't locate it today.

FerrisDJB
04-26-2013, 10:41 PM
Whatever hydro transaxle you have, make sure you go to that manufacturer’s website and look for their repair manual regarding hydro repair. Look at what type of fluid they recommend for refilling the transaxle. Many dealers of various brands of mowers are filling hydro transaxles with engine motor oil where sometimes the manufacturer of the transaxle might say premium hydraulic oil instead. I’ve run into a situation where this was done to one of my units, not blaming the dealer for intentional wrong doings, but just a practice that I feel should warrant further research. I called the manufacturer of the transaxle(Eaton) and their repair manual stated refilling their transaxle with premium hydraulic oil. I told Eaton that the mower manufacturer has told their dealers to refill with motor oil. Eaton responded by saying, “if they warranty the mower, they warranty the transaxles as well. They assume responsibility for maintenance of these transaxles by what they tell their dealers and service departments.” To me that sounds goofy. Who knows better as to how to service/maintain the transaxles, the manufacturer of the transaxle or the dealer that sells the mower powered by the very same transaxle!!