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HenryB
02-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Wondering how there holding up? New deck Hydro system? Look impressive on paper. Any real world users?

Ridin' Green
02-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Mickhippy is a member here. He has a new SZ 37/61" that he is finally getting some seat time on. I'm sure he'll see this, but in the meantime, here is a link to his channel where he has posted some vids-

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUYm5GRZ-YHkqgRFLbcdGSgQ

Mickhippy
02-13-2012, 05:12 PM
I have a whooping 20hrs on mine so far, but they havent been easy hours.
Hydros are awesome, deck gets long damp grass out but unsure of clipping dispersal as have only cut one place with "normal" length dry grass. Seemed to work well though.
The 37 uses a lot of fuel but can get through heavy growth quickly.
I have flex fork and the juries still out on them. They can bounce, cause some scalping and terracing on slopes. They are optional though!
Hate the fuel tank, the ROPS is unusable (hinge is too high and juts out too far.)

But the machine drives awesome, seems to cut well all things considered at the moment here.
Photos. ("week later" is normal length grass, lots of previous weeks clippings on top, but few clumps) There is a vid of that job as well.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110349839217234763877/PhotoUploads?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMKb4L6f3_-lggE&feat=directlink

Once it dries out properly I'll get a better idea of cut. Had storms last 2 days so its been a bit of a nightmare.
My daughter took these photos Sunday. They had to drive straight into it!

Ridin' Green
02-13-2012, 05:20 PM
Man, that's some seriously wicked looking skies Mick. Get any hail outta that?

Is your daughter practicing to be on Stormchasers here in the US? LOL

Mickhippy
02-13-2012, 05:31 PM
I was at home when it hit, its basically right over my head in the pic. Strong winds, HEAVY rain but thankfully no hail. Had another not so bad storm yesterday as well. Another storm today there saying. Im over it! Just keeping everything wet!

My daughter doesnt get chased by storms, she runs head long into them! haaa

DUSTYCEDAR
02-13-2012, 05:31 PM
do the flex forks let it lean down on hills?

Ridin' Green
02-13-2012, 05:34 PM
LOL, that's what the show Stormchasers is all about- several guys chasing down severe storms, then running headlong into them to film them. She'd be a natural.:laugh:

Mickhippy
02-13-2012, 05:41 PM
do the flex forks let it lean down on hills?
No problem going up/down, its across the slope they terrace. But, I dont know if normal forks do that as well. I would guess, not so much.

Ridin", seen the show. Ive ssen them running from iddy biddy twisters! Pussies! :dizzy: haa

Ridin' Green
02-13-2012, 06:29 PM
No problem going up/down, its across the slope they terrace. But, I dont know if normal forks do that as well. I would guess, not so much.

Ridin", seen the show. Ive ssen them running from iddy biddy twisters! Pussies! :dizzy: haa

Ouch!! LOL

I didn't know if you all could see that show down there or not. I'm just waiting for the one where they finally all get wisked off to OZ.:waving:

Mickhippy
02-13-2012, 06:34 PM
We get most of your shows here these days, for better or worse!

Mickhippy
03-08-2012, 04:30 AM
I will let the photos talk for themselves but yes, grass was very long but still...
.

Mickhippy
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
I guess my point is, Im not really impressed with the discharge. The windrows and clumps are just lining up just outside of the deck. Its like they are not being ejected by the outside blade but being pushed out. I cant really see whats going on due to the OCDC and or the chute. The XR7 deck would of had no drama with the grass in these pics below.

The V in VX4 stands for velocity! I just not seing that. It does get long grass out of the deck and cuts the actual grass fine (usually) but the discharge is less than impressive.

Another lawn, 10days growth. Grass no where near as long as the last photos...
.

BBC.lawn.services
03-08-2012, 06:31 PM
What blades are you using? Maybe going with something with higher lift will throw the clipping a bit farther/chop them better... (Gator G6?)

weeze
03-08-2012, 06:40 PM
nice pics mick. i looked at some of them and some of the yards looked really good. maybe you went over those 2 times?

Ridin' Green
03-08-2012, 09:29 PM
Mick,
I know several here have said that since the stock blades on the SZ's are .205" or so, that the heavier .250" G6's will bog the engine down too much with those super sized hydro's, but I find that hard to believe, especially with the engine you now have.

Give them a shot, or maybe the new G5's (same as G6 exactly, but .205") when they hit the market. They really do move some air, and they also chop the heck out of the clippings, so maybe the high air flow, and smaller clippings will go a long way towards eliminating the clumping/windrowing.

Where's the video bro? LOL
I know you had a video of the place in your top set of pics using your old Z.

Ridin' Green
03-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Jason, where'd you lift those pics from?

weeze
03-09-2012, 12:19 AM
that link he posted earlier in this thread. :laugh:

Ridin' Green
03-09-2012, 01:47 AM
I must have looked right passed them when I opened that after he posted it.:hammerhead:

Green Mtn. Guy
03-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Mick what is your cut height? Was just about to buy same set up as you but after seeing the clumping I'm not so sure. I cut around 2" here on Kauai. Anymore insight on the clumping issue? Thanks

Mickhippy
03-12-2012, 05:49 PM
I cant say whether you'd have clumping issues or not, its something you will have to check out yourself at the demo. The reason for the picks is just to point out that there may be problems. The deck was set to around 3.25" in the picks below. Thats 1/4" lower than the last lot of this place.

The nicer finished small lawns have been double cut. There was a heap of seed stems so they needed to be chopped. I also think they didnt help with clumping. Im getting clumping on nice lawns as well. Also, have little room for clippings so chop them up as much as I can.

I havent tried the G6 blades yet but will keep them in mind however I dont think its the clipping size, I think grass builds up somewhere on the discharge opening and then falls to the ground. The clumping isnt always bad but there always seems to be a bit of thickness to the amount just outside of the deck rather than a nice even spread.

Anyway, went back and recut that place again yesterday so 3.5-4days growth

1st pick is pretty much what it looked like when I started. Notice the windrows?
3rd and 4th has been cut and starting the "feathering" (raise deck .5" and recut)
Last picks is how I left the place. Not perfect but acceptable IMO all things considered.

The wet patch near that building is from sewerage outlet. Ive been telling them for years to move it every day. At least now they'll see why! Just cant tell some people! :hammerhead:

mtmower
03-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Mic. Has it dried out at all there? Any better luck with clippings if so? I'm also about to buy the identical mower.

Mickhippy
03-16-2012, 04:53 PM
Had showers last few days (again), but was able to do a few yesterday. Its hard mate, 2 weekly cut grass is long and damp so very frustrating. I am getting windrows in long grass where I wasnt with the xr7. If not taking much off its not too bad.

You know on the xr7 deck they had that angled piece of steal in the discharge chute? I think clippings are getting caught on that with this new deck. Clippings come out the full width of the chute, maybe they shouldnt!

I really think you need a good demo before buying.

Ridin' Green
03-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Mick,
I might be wrong, but IIRC you cut with your OCDC all the way up in the straight up position. I have read that the discharge chute being wide open can cause the clumping issue, s last summer I tried a little experiment with my 7 Iron. I had the chute all the way up for a while on one place Like I used to always do, and did get a little windrowing. Then I let it back down in its normal position sticking basically straight out to the side, and no more windrowing at all. I tried it a few more times over the sumer with the same results, so maybe there's something to that after all. Try it with the OCDC straight out and see if it helps. Worth a shot.

StanWilhite
03-16-2012, 07:49 PM
We get most of your shows here these days, for better or worse!

Sorry about that.......:laugh:

Mickhippy
03-16-2012, 08:36 PM
I mow with the ocdc fully open but I have tried mowing with the deflector chute on with same, or worse windrowing. But I could easily try closing it a bit but I cant see how that will effect the clippings before they even hit it. I'll give it a go though, cant hurt!

Stan, I forgive you! Maybe????

trooper8870
03-16-2012, 10:09 PM
Have you figured out what the fuel consumption per hour is yet?

Mickhippy
03-16-2012, 10:46 PM
Best ive had so far is 3.5hrs almost to the minute out of one tank of 25Lt
About 7.15Lt/hr or 1.88Gal/hr

Fuel cost $1.50/lt so $10/hr

mtmower
03-17-2012, 12:50 AM
Had showers last few days (again), but was able to do a few yesterday. Its hard mate, 2 weekly cut grass is long and damp so very frustrating. I am getting windrows in long grass where I wasnt with the xr7. If not taking much off its not too bad.

You know on the xr7 deck they had that angled piece of steal in the discharge chute? I think clippings are getting caught on that with this new deck. Clippings come out the full width of the chute, maybe they shouldnt!

I really think you need a good demo before buying.

This kills me to hear. I found a left over for $10800.00 and suspension seat. I love the way they're built. Wish they held more fuel capacity and had an isolated platform but that's not what will keep me from buying. The stupid thing has got to cut and leave the clippings properly. First and for most that's what any mower has got to do well. The perks come later like, performing it faster and lasting longer. I hope you find the fix. From what I'm reading the high lifts might be helpful. It would be worth a try.

I'm looking at the Gravely Pro Turn 400 which is new this year, costs as much $11300.00, has no proven track record, less warranty, and probably not built as heavy duty. It does have an air seat, isolated platform, 13 mph, and 13.4 gal tanks.

Also looking at the Husqvarna PZ6034FXZT. Found one for $8900.00 but I have to travel for it. No big deal. It's been out longer then the 400. But again less warranty, probably not built as heavy duty, and only 11 gallon tanks. It also has the isolated deck and the super high two speed hydro deal like the Cheetahs which is not proven.

Not to sound like the broken record but I can't demo any of these prior to buying. I know Hustler but hate the previous decks cuts. Accessories for the PZ and the 400 cost less (exp. bagging system roughly $1000.00 less) but they may not cut any better then the VX4. What to do. What to do.

Mickhippy
03-17-2012, 09:03 AM
Dont do anything until you demo! You'll love driving it. Only issue Im having is the discharge and the frickin fuel tanks! Seriously, you need to demo even if you have to drive 2hrs to do it.

You will love the machine. I bet it will be the best ztr you have ever driven and Im not having issues with the cut itself, just the discharge. Thats the only thing I reckon you need to worry about.

dwayne4
03-17-2012, 11:02 AM
I have 77.8 hours on mine. Its the best mower on the market right now. Durability, cut, ease of use, speed, and a profitable mower. I am not brand sensitive, I just know what works.

Tizzy
03-17-2012, 11:59 AM
did you guys play around with the deck adjustments at all. i played around with my VX4 and got it dialed in and it rivals the velocity plus deck. adjusted the baffles and deck pitch. also i run high life blades on it. it throws wet clippings 10-12 feet.

Single cut with VX4 deck (granted this is dry) and connecticut.

http://i40.tinypic.com/20a6qyx.jpg

mtmower
03-17-2012, 01:16 PM
did you guys play around with the deck adjustments at all. i played around with my VX4 and got it dialed in and it rivals the velocity plus deck. adjusted the baffles and deck pitch. also i run high life blades on it. it throws wet clippings 10-12 feet.

Single cut with VX4 deck (granted this is dry) and connecticut.

http://i40.tinypic.com/20a6qyx.jpg

Tizzy, Thanks for the positive review. Nice looking yard. I wish I was only reading these types of reviews. Can you give your recipe for you deck set up? Looking for blade brand, type, part #, place of purchase. Front baffle and pitch setting, etc.

I'm going to try some different blades on my 66" XR7 as well in hopes of making it perform better as far as clipping dispersal.

Cut quality has never been much of an issue with my standard deck or XR7 (once baffles were added) it's always been more of a clippings problem. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from a mower. It's not often a clumping issue. Sometimes it leaves a even blanket of clippings, but they are large and can actually cover the grass. Spend hr. plus a day with a back pack blower making them disappear which somewhat defeats the purpose of a fast mower.
No complaints other than that. They've treated me great so far.

The new mower would be perfect if the deck is the best, they'd put bigger gas tanks on them, they'd get rid of the flex forks for an isolated platform and maybe an air ride seat, and it would be nice to have adjustment on the deck lift pedal to help aid in lift function. Are the new VX4s any easier to lift?

A dealer told me there is a rumor that Kawasaki is going to drop the carbed engine line all together and go solely DFI in the near future.

mtmower
03-17-2012, 04:52 PM
Oh yea. Forgot to ask. Are you bagging clippings? Did you have to double cut to get this end result?

smithfabinc
03-21-2012, 09:18 PM
This kills me to hear. I found a left over for $10800.00 and suspension seat. I love the way they're built. Wish they held more fuel capacity and had an isolated platform but that's not what will keep me from buying. The stupid thing has got to cut and leave the clippings properly. First and for most that's what any mower has got to do well. The perks come later like, performing it faster and lasting longer. I hope you find the fix. From what I'm reading the high lifts might be helpful. It would be worth a try.

I'm looking at the Gravely Pro Turn 400 which is new this year, costs as much $11300.00, has no proven track record, less warranty, and probably not built as heavy duty. It does have an air seat, isolated platform, 13 mph, and 13.4 gal tanks.

Also looking at the Husqvarna PZ6034FXZT. Found one for $8900.00 but I have to travel for it. No big deal. It's been out longer then the 400. But again less warranty, probably not built as heavy duty, and only 11 gallon tanks. It also has the isolated deck and the super high two speed hydro deal like the Cheetahs which is not proven.

Not to sound like the broken record but I can't demo any of these prior to buying. I know Hustler but hate the previous decks cuts. Accessories for the PZ and the 400 cost less (exp. bagging system roughly $1000.00 less) but they may not cut any better then the VX4. What to do. What to do.

Buy a hustler super Z and you wont go wrong. Mine just clicked over 290 hours, and it cuts great. I played around a little with the baffle adjustment, and once i got it dialed in for the type of grass we have here, it cuts and stipes awesome. Its rediculously FAST, and I love the new hydro system. Not too many mowers out there that you can mow a cemetary with and still lay your hand comfortably on the hydro cooler......thats impressive heat reduction!

Mickhippy
03-21-2012, 11:04 PM
Buy a hustler super Z and you wont go wrong. Mine just clicked over 290 hours, and it cuts great. I played around a little with the baffle adjustment, and once i got it dialed in for the type of grass we have here, it cuts and stipes awesome. Its rediculously FAST, and I love the new hydro system. Not too many mowers out there that you can mow a cemetary with and still lay your hand comfortably on the hydro cooler......thats impressive heat reduction!

What "setting" have you got the baffle on?
What blades and what kind of grass?
Dry grass or damp/wet?
Are you in the actual growing season yet?

Id like to try and make dispersal better on mine so if your cutting similar to me, you may be able to help.

Some pics would be nice too!

smithfabinc
03-21-2012, 11:17 PM
What "setting" have you got the baffle on?
What blades and what kind of grass?
Dry grass or damp/wet?
Are you in the actual growing season yet?

Id like to try and make dispersal better on mine so if your cutting similar to me, you may be able to help.

Some pics would be nice too!

The baffle is in the second hole down from the top, the blades are a high lift 20.5" blade like the older exmarks use, deck is pitched 3/16" down in the front, plastic deflector removed. I mow mostly fescue grass with a few bermuda and centipede lawns here and there. Early morning lawns have a very heavy dew, and I havent had any problems as long as I was cutting a reasonable amount off. Mine is a 31Hp. I will be mowing some really nice lawns before the weekend, and I will try to post some pics. Over-all, Im very pleased with the mower, and I actually have this one for sale to get the new VX4 Diesel model they have out. I used to have a diesel z with the XR7 deck, and I cant wait to see how well the VX4 deck does with the diesel pushing it.

Mickhippy
03-21-2012, 11:32 PM
Thats my problem, Im having to take quite a bit off, that 1/3 rule went out the window months ago. When it gets that long its also holding moisture and we've had an insane amount of rain days here. Its raining as I write this, we've had rain since last Saturday and the place is soaked, again, so I wont be doing any mowing until at least next Tuesday.

It will be interesting to see how you go when the grass really starts cranking and after a lot of rain. Let me know how you get on ok?

The diesel sounds cool but dont you think the weight might be an issue? Its a heavy machine now at what 650kg or so. I didnt know they had one coming but be to heavy for me anyway.

Oh, and thanks for the info. I might have a go at changing the baffles and look into some different blades.

retrodog
03-21-2012, 11:35 PM
A dealer told me there is a rumor that Kawasaki is going to drop the carbed engine line all together and go solely DFI in the near future.
I sure hope not, they have been pretty troublesome, and the 37 is a guzzler. I am having better luck installing after market efi kits too regular air cooled models for $299...
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Mickhippy
03-21-2012, 11:48 PM
I sure hope not, they have been pretty troublesome, and the 37 is a guzzler. I am having better luck installing after market efi kits too regular air cooled models for $299...
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Efi kits???? Please tell me more!

Ridin' Green
03-21-2012, 11:57 PM
Efi kits???? Please tell me more!

Agreed. I need to hear about this too! Any pics, and how hard to install is it? Which engines are capable of taking the kit?

mtmower
03-22-2012, 10:14 AM
How much of a decrease in fuel consumption do you see? Do the effect power positively or negatively?

Mickhippy
04-04-2012, 04:27 PM
Quick update.
Received some G6 blades yesterday. Clipping dispersal seems better in the heavier growth but still getting the little windows, not quite as bad I dont think, but still some. The grass wasnt as long as I was expecting but still very thick and lush in places.

Im pretty sure the clippings are finer. I reckon I'll be able to mulch stuff up better on smaller lawns.

It was hard to take a decent pic yesterday, either to dark or I was in wrong spot when sun came out. The grass wasnt quite as long but fairly similar to a pic in the second page of this thread if you care to compare. Grass in second pic came up well!

Im certainly going to keep using these blades for awhile to see how they go. Grass has slowed down now as well so.

Mickhippy
04-04-2012, 04:45 PM
Ooops, another update!
I believe there is a service bulletin on the park break linkages so if you have an SZ I suggest you ask your dealer about it. Something just needs tightening!

Mine came apart and locked the park break on. Luckily happened at home so was able to use my tractor to lift azz end onto the trailer. It wasnt rolling anywhere!
Dealer had to replace all linkages and I believe it was the brake drum.
I'll give a big thanks to the dealer on this. Took machine in the morning, they stripped the damaged parts, ordered parts, they were delivered after lunch, put back together and I picked it up late afternoon! Cant ask for more than that!

Tizzy
04-04-2012, 05:19 PM
Tizzy, Thanks for the positive review. Nice looking yard. I wish I was only reading these types of reviews. Can you give your recipe for you deck set up? Looking for blade brand, type, part #, place of purchase. Front baffle and pitch setting, etc.

I'm going to try some different blades on my 66" XR7 as well in hopes of making it perform better as far as clipping dispersal.

Are the new VX4s any easier to lift?

A dealer told me there is a rumor that Kawasaki is going to drop the carbed engine line all together and go solely DFI in the near future.

the setup is like so....

deck pitch 1/8" lower in the front
standard hustler high lift blades
baffle set to middle position
tires set at 13psi

two side notes.
keep blades razor sharp
i leave the discharge chute up.

i have never run an XR7 deck so i dont know if its easier to lift but the VX4 is very easy to raise and lower

i have not heard anything on a kawi engine line change

Mickhippy
04-04-2012, 05:52 PM
I had to use my older XR7 SZ the other day. The deck on the new machine is easier, not by weight or springs but by not being so confined. There is more leg room on the new SZ and a better reach for the foot peg. Can get more leverage or something. It is still heavy though!

After a day on the old machine this week, while still very good IMO, the new SZ is worlds apart. Hydros, the power, comfort (Im loving the flex forks) etc is way better on the new.
Old SZ is a little nimbler due to its shorter wheel base but still, the new hydros are that good, I made the right choice getting the new machine!

The lawn pictured above used to take me average 3-3.5hrs to mow, a little quicker in slow/dry periods. I mowed it yesterday, long lush grass, soft ground in places etc in about 2hrs, I even did a little clippings feathering! It would of taken over 3hrs on old SZ for sure!
Basically, saved an hour!

mtmower
04-04-2012, 07:02 PM
I have to eat crow. I whined and whined on here about how I wouldn't be able to demo and low and behold my closest dealer has a 60" 34 kaw SZ from last year. First and only one he got in. He wants rid of it and is cutting me a decent deal. I hope to have nice thick grass to demo in about two weeks. Also am going to demo the new Gravely 460 around the same time and possibly a new Husqvarna.

I was at a local Walker dealer today to get parts for my Tanaka trimmer. This guy is probably the best dealer in the valley. He's been after me for years to get rid of a Hustler and buy a Walker. They've improved quite a bit over the last ten years and I'm pretty impressed as far as build and lay out. I don't bag clippings, just thatch in the spring and leaves in the fall. I just can't get my head around making one work in my set up. The Super B with a 61" deck looks nice but can't bag. The weeks where I need to bag I would need their GHS and I couldn't make myself drive around with a grass collector the whole season, in the way and not being used. I may still demo one just for kicks.

Mickhippy
04-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Walker B v's New SZ, no contest as far as production! Cut wise may be a different story!

Just drove past a lawn I did yesterday with the G6 blades. They may not have enough lift. Grass was long though!

TLS
04-04-2012, 10:12 PM
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mtmower
04-05-2012, 12:30 AM
Mic, did you notice extra draw on the hp. with the G6s compared to the factory high lifts?

Mickhippy
04-05-2012, 02:15 AM
Didn't notice any draw at all. Maybe a tad less actually once cutting. They are very similar in size and weight to the blades I was using.
Mowed a few nice lawns today, cut was great but not cutting much off. I'm pretty happy really!
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mtmower
04-05-2012, 11:09 AM
Good to hear that you're liking it better and thanks tons for all the input on here. :drinkup:

Mickhippy
04-05-2012, 04:38 PM
thanks tons for all the input on here. :drinkup:

No worries! Just hope its at least somewhat helpful!
Its a seriously good machine! But you still need to demo it!

randy100170
04-28-2012, 01:34 AM
I am writing in regards to your new Hustler VX4 technology decks.
True facts regarding Hustler VX4 technology.
1. Versatility. Hustlerís definition is Ėadjustable front inner wall allows deck performance to be optimized for all grass conditions and seasons. I personally feel the deck structure is built very well however it is not the best deck for all grass conditions and seasons.
2. Velocity. Hustlerís definition is the progressively larger tunnel in front of the blades, and a wider discharge opening, moves grass through the deck faster resulting in greater discharge dispersion. I personally feel that this design moves less grass through the deck slower resulting in less discharge dispersion. Due to Hustler running shorter blades and thus allowing less outside wrapper skirts and the outside blades mounted further forward creating less wrapper skirts causes less material carried through the deck.
3. Volume. Hustlerís definition is higher air and grass volume through-out results in less material carried in the cutting chambers. This allows for higher ground speed without compromising cut quality. I personally feel due to the spindle position and less outside wrapper skirts surrounding the blades decreased air and grass volume and yes it does have less material in the cutting chambers. This deck has less air and grass volume then prior models.
4. Vacuum. Hustlerís definition states the grass is lifted more effectively. This results in a crisp, clean cut and appearance every time. I personally feel that Hustler knows they have a problem with the vacuum on this deck. The engineering department came out with a high vacuum kit for the 48, 54, 60, 66, and 72 inch decks. Knowing they have a problem with the vacuum system for the VX4 technology decks. Hustlerís definition for the vacuum kits states that in some grass conditions where the grass blades are thin and limp, the velocity of the air moving through the front of the deck may not be able to produce enough vacuum to stand the grass back up before being cut. This results in areas of inconsistent cut across the deck width. Hustler knows they have vacuum issues with their VX4 decks however they apparently are not in production for any of these kits.
The main problem with the VX4 technology decks is they are running less skirt wrappers around the backside of the blades. Also they are running shorter blades for the deck width thus resulting in the 2 outside blades running further forward on the deck resulting in less skirt wrappers.
Then Hustler opened up the front air channel in front of the blades decreasing the discharge velocity.
I owe an older Hustler Super Z and feel that the new VX4 should be comparable to the older deck design. With this new technology you would think it would be better or comparable but it is not. I am really disappointed in this new technology as a business owner.
To fix this problem I feel they would need to run at least 19Ē blades with more outside wrapper skirt in a 54Ē deck mower and less of an opening in front of the blades. The spindle position would need to be further back into the deck resulting in more wrapper skirt. This would increase the velocity volume as well as the vacuum. Hustlerís older designs worked much better than this new VZ4 technology.

Sincerely,
Randy Snodgrass
Snodgrass Lawn Service
Garden City, KS

TLS
04-28-2012, 06:07 AM
Mickhippy,

My '06 took a poop the other day...again. Took it to the dealer and got the loaner I had last year. They added flex forks and fixed the engine surging issue.

I'm getting the line of clippings like your picture above. Very disappointed. Cut is great. Vacuum is great as well.

This windrow is only overshadowed by the sheer length of clippings coming out of the chute! Granted, with my breakdown, my schedule got messed up, and yesterday I mowed some that were 10 days instead of 7. But I had 5-6" long stalks of clippings laying on top. I had to double-cut for a different reason....to get these clipping cut up!

Hydros and overall build of the machine are great....this deck is great for bushogging, or mass production mowing.

But I'm really glad I had another (Springtime) opportunity to demo.

TLS
04-28-2012, 06:10 AM
Randy...

Wow!

I agree, the velocity with which the grass exits isn't the fastest, and I believe that this is the issue and cause of the clumping.

What is included in this "High Vacuum Kit"???

I had one sent out for my old XR-7 but it just added another 40lbs to an already heavy deck!

Mickhippy
04-28-2012, 07:54 AM
Mickhippy,

My '06 took a poop the other day...again. Took it to the dealer and got the loaner I had last year. They added flex forks and fixed the engine surging issue.

I'm getting the line of clippings like your picture above. Very disappointed. Cut is great. Vacuum is great as well.

This windrow is only overshadowed by the sheer length of clippings coming out of the chute! Granted, with my breakdown, my schedule got messed up, and yesterday I mowed some that were 10 days instead of 7. But I had 5-6" long stalks of clippings laying on top. I had to double-cut for a different reason....to get these clipping cut up!

Hydros and overall build of the machine are great....this deck is great for bushogging, or mass production mowing.

But I'm really glad I had another (Springtime) opportunity to demo.

The clippings are somewhat smaller with the G6 blades so they are a good option to try out but that windrow is a pita for sure! I still havent adjusted the front skirt yet but still, as far as I know, thats for vacuum and dealing with the different (cool/warm) turf types.

TLS
04-28-2012, 08:47 AM
Yeah, I think the windrow is caused by that back section that is boxed in (rear discharge side).

Doesn't SCAG use a turbo baffle?
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
04-28-2012, 06:13 PM
I am writing in regards to your new Hustler VX4 technology decks.

I think your right about there being too much of a gap between the blade and the front skirt for when cutting normal length grass and thereby loosing velocity and not recutting a lot of clippings before discharge.
The blade on the right side seems to discharge over the entire width of the chute sending some clippings into the little triangular "brace" at the back of the chute. Im sure that is where the windrows are caused from. They build up and just drop to the ground!!!! A good indication of it is when I sharpen blades or scrape the deck there is always some grass caked on there.

I wonder if removing that triangle may help but then, it is a brace and warranty may be effected!

I really wish Pj or anyone from Hustler would get involved in this! This and other threads aren't doing them any favours!

Ridin' Green
04-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Yeah, I think the windrow is caused by that back section that is boxed in (rear discharge side).

Doesn't SCAG use a turbo baffle?
Posted via Mobile Device

TLS-
Here's a pic for you-
http://www.scag.com/velocity-bigpic.html

IMO, all that turbo baffle does is keep the clippings from re-circulating around the right blade. I doubt it really adds all that much to the discharge velocity, since the main airstream is at the front of the blades up against the baffle. 7 Iron decks don't have that "Turbo Baffle", and they discharge great. Fast and nice and even.


Here's a link to that old thread from a couple years ago showing all the undersides of the popular decks. Look how closely the Velocity Plus and VX4 match in design as far as the cutting chamber, and discharge opening with the exception of the "Turbo Baffle" on the Scag. Both have adjustable front baffles. Strange to me how the Velocity gets such great reviews, while the very similar VX4 gets so much criticism.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=322546

puppypaws
04-28-2012, 07:56 PM
Mickhippy,

My '06 took a poop the other day...again. Took it to the dealer and got the loaner I had last year. They added flex forks and fixed the engine surging issue.

What caused the surging and how was it remedied? How many hrs. on your mower at this time, and what were the other problems with the engine?


No worries! Just hope its at least somewhat helpful!
Its a seriously good machine! But you still need to demo it!

I've not read the entire thread, but read enough to see you were not sure how the flex forks would work out on your new mower. The problem everyone will see with flex forks are they were designed for a particular weight mower, which if I had to guess was the older version Super Z with a 60" deck.

Flex forks are built on the design of a "Flexride Rubber Torsion Axle," meaning they must be built with different rubber compositions to adjust for different weights. Hustler has one weight designed flex fork, meaning if you change mower weights, there is no compensation. For flex forks to work as advertised, you must design each for a specific weight class, but they realize this is not cost effective. When using the older style Super Z, if you move up to a 66" deck, there will be a difference in up and down motion over the lighter 60" Super Z, move on up to a 72" and you will notice more problems, possibly to the point of not being usable on manicured turf.

I would say with the newly designed, heavier Super Z you would definitely see a considerable problem. The remedy to having a good usable flex fork is to design them for the weight of the machine it must support. If I personally were responsible for the company, there would be flex forks made for at least two different weight classes, possibly three. The price would be higher, but there would also be more sold from positive feed back; word of mouth advertisement can make or break a product, and sometimes a company.

http://www.trailerpart.com/images/1flexiride2.jpg

Mickhippy
04-28-2012, 08:52 PM
Hi Puppy. long time no see! Hope you and family are well!
Since my lawns have been somewhat "trained" to the new machine now the forks havent been a problem. I do have to slow down quietly before turns but small price to pay for the better ride. The rough lawns where they come into there own I couldnt give a toss if it scalps or not. They are not lawns but rough azz pasture types of places.
Im loving the forks actually!

Back to the deck...
Ive done a bit of photo editing (see below) and it (kind of) clearly shows the distance between the discharge blade and the front skirt on the Scag deck is greater than the VX4 deck.
Red line is the Scag, black is the VX4.

So, I stand myself corrected on that!:hammerhead:
Ive used the centre spindle as reference and got the 2 decks as close to lined up as possible. I havent stretched the decks to fit, just cropped and adjusted size.

mtmower
04-29-2012, 12:16 AM
Impressive work Mick! Wow they look so similar. It's crazy that they seem to be cutting so much different. I also notice the Scag runs a notched high lift instead of a rolled. IIRC the X One runs the rolled but the VX4 runs notched like a Scag.

Due to the threads on here, a situation where my Hustler dealer won't get back to me after three attempts to demo one, and how impressed I was with the Gravely 460 demo and it's pricing I think I may be driving red by the end of the week. You don't even want to look at, let alone compare the X factor deck to these. Looking at it, it should cut terrible but it did quite well. May demo the outlaw yet but that one is going to take a lot of convincing.

Mickhippy
04-29-2012, 12:47 AM
Impressive work Mick! Wow they look so similar. It's crazy that they seem to be cutting so much different. I also notice the Scag runs a notched high lift instead of a rolled. IIRC the X One runs the rolled but the VX4 runs notched like a Scag.

Due to the threads on here, a situation where my Hustler dealer won't get back to me after three attempts to demo one, and how impressed I was with the Gravely 460 demo and it's pricing I think I may be driving red by the end of the week. You don't even want to look at, let alone compare the X factor deck to these. Looking at it, it should cut terrible but it did quite well. May demo the outlaw yet but that one is going to take a lot of convincing.

They are very similar for sure, just a little more gap between blade and front skirt and, that little trianglar piece in the discharge chute. I'd bet thats the issue, I'd love to cut it out!

Ridin' Green
04-29-2012, 01:02 AM
They are very similar for sure, just a little more gap between blade and front skirt and, that little trianglar piece in the discharge chute. I'd bet thats the issue, I'd love to cut it out!

Great job Mick. I don't think I'd even begin to know how to do that to the pics, but it shows exactly what I was saying in my last post where I posted the links. Like I said in that post, I just don't understand the way everyone likes one deck, but has issues with the other. I agree that most likely the cause of the wind-rowing is the little angle at the rear of the chute opening on the VX4. If I owned one and had that problem, I'd have no problem in cutting it out. It sure won't hurt anything structurally that I can see. I know it may be some sort of brace, but IMO, it was put there more as a sales point than an actual structural point.

mtmower
04-29-2012, 12:21 PM
Great job Mick. I don't think I'd even begin to know how to do that to the pics, but it shows exactly what I was saying in my last post where I posted the links. Like I said in that post, I just don't understand the way everyone likes one deck, but has issues with the other. I agree that most likely the cause of the wind-rowing is the little angle at the rear of the chute opening on the VX4. If I owned one and had that problem, I'd have no problem in cutting it out. It sure won't hurt anything structurally that I can see. I know it may be some sort of brace, but IMO, it was put there more as a sales point than an actual structural point.

Before you start cutting, just make sure that surface isn't intended to mount the blower for the bagger or something. It would be bad new to find out afterward.

Are both decks the same depth?

Mickhippy
04-29-2012, 04:23 PM
Before you start cutting, just make sure that surface isn't intended to mount the blower for the bagger or something. It would be bad new to find out afterward.

Are both decks the same depth?

I think he's saying that if he were in my position, he'd cut the piece out.

mtmower
04-29-2012, 04:35 PM
I think he's saying that if he were in my position, he'd cut the piece out.

Yea, the point I was making is that it may be there to serve a purpose and I'd make sure it wasn't needed for anything, like flat surface to mount the blower unit on, before you cut it off. If it doesn't effect blower mounting or stability, or your never going to run a bagger, and aren't worried it may effect resale to someone that might want to run a bagger later, then hack away. I would certainly consider cutting it off if this is the only thing standing in the way of good clipping dispersal.

Another thought is, before you start modifying the deck, I'd call Hustler directly, not a dealer, and talk to tech. Explain the problem, ask their thoughts on it, explain your possible fix, and see what they say. Maybe they already tried this or are willing to try it for you on one of their decks and get back to you. They've been pretty helpful to me when I've called in the past.

Mickhippy
04-29-2012, 04:37 PM
I wont be hacking away without approval from Hustler/importers.

Ridin' Green
04-29-2012, 08:26 PM
I think he's saying that if he were in my position, he'd cut the piece out.

Yea, that's exactly what I was talking about MickThumbs Up

I wouldn't just start cutting without making sure I wouldn't need it for anything, but if I didn't bag and had no plans to, cutting that piece out carefully to make it look good when done would be no problem for me. Also, I would ask Hustler if they had ever removed it themselves, and find out what type of grass they cut afterwards, and what the results were.

cimkill
04-29-2012, 09:32 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but Mick would you buy it again after having it. I have an 05 hustler Z 60" with a 28kholer and its a tank. I purchased another brand and am not impressed with its tolerance for rough bad terrain. It has been falling apart since I got it down here! My old hustler had been cutting exact same terrain for over a year and nothing crazy happened to deck. Cut is very important though so what would you say? I might be making another ztr purchase and really think it would be a super z. I cant demo, and have to import myself. Thank you.

Mickhippy
04-29-2012, 10:12 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but Mick would you buy it again after having it. I have an 05 hustler Z 60" with a 28kholer and its a tank. I purchased another brand and am not impressed with its tolerance for rough bad terrain. It has been falling apart since I got it down here! My old hustler had been cutting exact same terrain for over a year and nothing crazy happened to deck. Cut is very important though so what would you say? I might be making another ztr purchase and really think it would be a super z. I cant demo, and have to import myself. Thank you.

Wow, put me on the spot!!!!!!!

I guess the short answer is........... Yes!
Most if not all the photos Ive put up have been of long, thick, damp grass thats been missed due to rain for 3 and or 4 weeks. Its not really a fair comparison to nice regular lawns. My 08 SZ would of had a hard time on these lawns too and been very slow going. The new SZ, while yes, there are windrows, was able to just get it done. Cant polish a sh!t kind of thing!
Good ride, great hydros, strong engine etc makes it tick most of my box's. It has its issues like I still frickin HATE the fuel tanks etc but still, its a great machine!

My only other real option was the Turf Tiger but I wanted something with a better ride and didnt want to loose the speed of the SZ so, I really didnt have much of a choice.
If the TT had some kind of suspension (other than seat) and larger fuel tank I would of seriously looked at the Big Block TT.

If you cant demo it puts you in a tough position.

mtmower
04-30-2012, 12:09 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, but Mick would you buy it again after having it. I have an 05 hustler Z 60" with a 28kholer and its a tank. I purchased another brand and am not impressed with its tolerance for rough bad terrain. It has been falling apart since I got it down here! My old hustler had been cutting exact same terrain for over a year and nothing crazy happened to deck. Cut is very important though so what would you say? I might be making another ztr purchase and really think it would be a super z. I cant demo, and have to import myself. Thank you.

cimkill, if you don't mind me asking what other brand are you running that's not holding up so well?

TLS
04-30-2012, 07:04 AM
Randy,

I don't know exactly what your issue with repetitive posting is.

But I will say one thing....

The VX4 deck is 100 times better then the first generation XR-7 in all of your 4 "V" categories.

So, if your coming from a pre-XR-7 or a later (non free-flow-triangle Version 1.0 XR-7), then in certain conditions, they may have been better.

The cut quality far surpasses any cut I've had in many mowers. The discharge windrow in tall grass, and the length of these discharged clippings isn't acceptable to me.

Just to be clear, in last years week long demo, these two issues did not show up....now in heavy spring growth, they are there.

cimkill
04-30-2012, 04:39 PM
Mick Thank You and sorry about putting you on the spot! MTmower is now doing that to me LOL. I will first let you guys know that I cut in the worst, and harshest conditions you have ever seen. Micks pasture areas are like my good areas its terrible down here in belize the concept of box blading has evaded these people. Ground is rough they throw rocks in the parks for fun, its crazy! Thats why the mowers get beaten up. That said its a ferris IS3100zp. I got the propane because gas is $6.00 and propane is $2.00.

Ridin' Green
04-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Mick Thank You and sorry about putting you on the spot! MTmower is now doing that to me LOL. I will first let you guys know that I cut in the worst, and harshest conditions you have ever seen. Micks pasture areas are like my good areas its terrible down here in belize the concept of box blading has evaded these people. Ground is rough they throw rocks in the parks for fun, its crazy! Thats why the mowers get beaten up. That said its a ferris IS3100zp. I got the propane because gas is $6.00 and propane is $2.00.

I've read enough of your posts to know which mower you were going to say it was. What is happening to the ferris? I always wondered when you picked that machine how long it would hold up. I think the Ferris's are excellent mowers, and built well too, and there's no doubt they ride nice, but I had the feeling that you were taking a luxury highway vehicle off-roading so to speak:laugh:. Is the troubles you are seeing in the deck itself, or in all the suspension mounting points or both, or just what? Thanks.

cimkill
04-30-2012, 05:30 PM
I've read enough of your posts to know which mower you were going to say it was. What is happening to the ferris? I always wondered when you picked that machine how long it would hold up. I think the Ferris's are excellent mowers, and built well too, and there's no doubt they ride nice, but I had the feeling that you were taking a luxury highway vehicle off-roading so to speak:laugh:. Is the troubles you are seeing in the deck itself, or in all the suspension mounting points or both, or just what? Thanks.

Oops didnt realize i was that bad! I think ferris is great they replaced almost everything that has gone wrong along with my great dealer support. Well one of the rear shocks went out and that was replaced! The left anti scalp wheel got folded, bent under the deck! We fixed that ourselves will have to post some pictures its a major improvement over what they had. Now that my wife is here and she knows how to put picks on. The front right of the deck got bowed in had to use a body shop to straighten it back! The deck stabalizing bars have both broke off. We re wellded them two weeks ago, and the right one just broke off in another spot! have to fix that tommorow. Well that's all so far. :laugh:

cimkill
04-30-2012, 06:20 PM
Here is the anti scalp and two beaten mowers on the beaten trailor.

Mickhippy
04-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Oh man, sounds like you only have 2 choices! The SZ or TT.
The rep told me about a council that runs the new SZ in kind of the "Outback." These areas are rough like you describe and the operators are idiots. They push concrete slabs that picnic tables sit on around with the deck and just run full stick all the time. Due to the floods and rain the grass had been getting very long etc and they are still getting the work done in much quicker time than using previous mowers (I cant remember what they were). Rep told me they love the new SZ's and I believe him.

I guess its production v's potential cut.
The SZ will get more done than a TT due to the flex forks but the discharge may or may not be up to scratch.
Even if you had to go and feather a few clumps with the SZ, you'd still be a head in production!
Both machines are build tough but the TT rides rough from all accounts so probably not the right machine after a Ferris. The SZ isnt as smooth as a Ferris but as youve seen, all those moving parts arent always a good thing! Broken mowers have zero production and only cost money.

I think we contractors care to much about our work sometimes. If the conditions a terrible, how is anyone expected to make it look good? Like I said, cant polish a sh!t!

Is there absolutely no way of getting a demo? Why dont you get a hold of Pj and see if he can help you out?

From what you describe, IMHO, the SZ would be best suited to your needs.

Can you take some pics of these areas?

Ridin' Green
04-30-2012, 06:31 PM
Oops didnt realize i was that bad! I think ferris is great they replaced almost everything that has gone wrong along with my great dealer support. Well one of the rear shocks went out and that was replaced! The left anti scalp wheel got folded, bent under the deck! We fixed that ourselves will have to post some pictures its a major improvement over what they had. Now that my wife is here and she knows how to put picks on. The front right of the deck got bowed in had to use a body shop to straighten it back! The deck stabalizing bars have both broke off. We re wellded them two weeks ago, and the right one just broke off in another spot! have to fix that tommorow. Well that's all so far. :laugh:

LOL. No, I meant that I had read enough of your posts here, especially when you were looking for a new mower, that I figured it had to be the one that you bought that was giving you trouble now, because you hadn't mention this kind of stuff going bad on your Hustler. Not many mowers will last under those kind of adverse conditions for too long I wouldn't think.

cimkill
04-30-2012, 06:53 PM
Yes Mick I will get some pics the next time we go out probably a couple weeks from now we are in a severe dry spell right now. Rain won't start until mid june, usually 100 days of dry then it poors the rest of the year. Ridin green Your right, but the hustler is alot tuffer. Some guys down here wanted to compete with me and so far one exmark landed in the river. Given that was operator problem. Then kubota's and husqvarna's owned by competitors are always down with major problems, so I got there jobs. Loving it! my work horse at the moment is the ferris but everybody preffers cut on hustler oddly enough.

Ridin' Green
04-30-2012, 09:26 PM
If it wasn't for so many reports of less than perfect cuts and clumping issues with the VX4, I'd have bought an SZ this time around. I don't have to deal with the stuff you do, so the finished product is far more important for me.

I'd like to see your pics myself. It's always interesting to see how things are in other places around the globe, and what other LCO's there have to deal with. I really enjoy looking at Mick's videos and pics. Very interesting to me.:)

puppypaws
04-30-2012, 09:42 PM
If it wasn't for so many reports of less than perfect cuts and clumping issues with the VX4, I'd have bought an SZ this time around. I don't have to deal with the stuff you do, so the finished product is far more important for me.

I'd like to see your pics myself. It's always interesting to see how things are in other places around the globe, and what other LCO's there have to deal with. I really enjoy looking at Mick's videos and pics. Very interesting to me.:)

It's basically common sense, cutting on a timely schedule where you keep the clippings to a minimum, and you will be well pleased with the new SZ. Cutting overgrown limp blade moisture laden grass, and you will be much more satisfied with the cut of a Velocity Plus deck, especially if the TT is powered by a big block Vanguard. The SZ is more productive than the TT, but this is not a perfect world, if it were, Hustler would have a Scag Velocity Plus deck, and a closed-loop fuel injected big block engine powering their SZ. This would be as close to perfect as could be found in the zero turn world at this particular time.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
04-30-2012, 10:18 PM
It's basically common sense, cutting on a timely schedule where you keep the clippings to a minimum, and you will be well pleased with the new SZ. Cutting overgrown limp blade moisture laden grass, and you will be much more satisfied with the cut of a Velocity Plus deck, especially if the TT is powered by a big block Vanguard. The SZ is more productive than the TT, but this is not a perfect world, if it were, Hustler would have a Scag Velocity Plus deck, and a closed-loop fuel injected big block engine powering their SZ. This would be as close to perfect as could be found in the zero turn world at this particular time.

Boy... That would be very nice. Why don't you email both companies and see if they would merge together for us so we can get a perfect machine.....:laugh:
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
04-30-2012, 10:48 PM
Boy... That would be very nice. Why don't you email both companies and see if they would merge together for us so we can get a perfect machine.....:laugh:
Posted via Mobile Device

I talked with both companies and was given an answer from both that would match the description of this cartoon...For some reason they seem to act as if neither wanted anything to do with the other.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
04-30-2012, 11:13 PM
I talked with both companies and was given an answer from both that would match the description of this cartoon...For some reason they seem to act as if neither wanted anything to do with the other.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::rolleyes:
Posted via Mobile Device

mtmower
04-30-2012, 11:24 PM
It's basically common sense, cutting on a timely schedule where you keep the clippings to a minimum, and you will be well pleased with the new SZ. Cutting overgrown limp blade moisture laden grass, and you will be much more satisfied with the cut of a Velocity Plus deck, especially if the TT is powered by a big block Vanguard. The SZ is more productive than the TT, but this is not a perfect world, if it were, Hustler would have a Scag Velocity Plus deck, and a closed-loop fuel injected big block engine powering their SZ. This would be as close to perfect as could be found in the zero turn world at this particular time.

Add the Husky quick connection bagger set up and the Gravely 400 isolated operator platform, foot pan, sticks, and engine cradle along with the air seat, 14 gallon tanks, all slung so low that the mower would stick to a wall, with Bad Boy swing out tanks, and optional colors to pick from!:rolleyes: Starting to sound like Johnny Cash and the "one part at a time" song! We can build it. They will come.:laugh:

Ridin' Green
05-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Since we are talking about the perfect Z, I think you missed a couple of things, like- a fully enclosed cab with air filtration system, heat and AC, and a wiper. And oh yea, four wheel braking.
Hey, if they can put it on the WAM's, then why not on the Z's?:cool2:

Mickhippy
05-01-2012, 05:18 AM
Yes Mick I will get some pics the next time we go out probably a couple weeks from now we are in a severe dry spell right now. Rain won't start until mid june, usually 100 days of dry then it poors the rest of the year. Ridin green Your right, but the hustler is alot tuffer. Some guys down here wanted to compete with me and so far one exmark landed in the river. Given that was operator problem. Then kubota's and husqvarna's owned by competitors are always down with major problems, so I got there jobs. Loving it! my work horse at the moment is the ferris but everybody preffers cut on hustler oddly enough.

Your weather sounds like my year! Its been a disaster for me! Just this last weekend had around 3 - 4" of rain. Last week lost around $2k in work ($700 in one day alone) due to rain and thats just one week of many wet weeks. Its been a nightmare for me that is for sure! Its hard enough economy wise without the added dramas of weather!

Anyway, I'd love to see what your mowing so bring on the pics!

cimkill
05-01-2012, 10:36 AM
I will post some picks in the next week or two. Like I said its the dry season work is sparce at the moment 3 resorts cancelled on me this week. Our dry season growth I believe is faster than most. Will send picks probably of a property we cut in the capital next week will be two weeks since last cut. I will start my own thread " Cutting in the third world". Thanks for all the input.

Realslowww
05-01-2012, 12:00 PM
I will post some picks in the next week or two. Like I said its the dry season work is sparce at the moment 3 resorts cancelled on me this week. Our dry season growth I believe is faster than most. Will send picks probably of a property we cut in the capital next week will be two weeks since last cut. I will start my own thread " Cutting in the third world". Thanks for all the input. Dont mean to get off topic but what is it like where you are to live? I know some people getting out of USA and going to South America to try and run from the new owners that are taking North America over and gradually taking the whole world over.

weeze
05-01-2012, 12:30 PM
isn't a cheetah somewhat of a TT and a SZ put together? speed of the super z and cut of the TT.

puppypaws
05-01-2012, 02:42 PM
The difference in grasses, and location in our country dictates mower preference. I was going to the dentist in South Carolina this morning; I got to the office a little early, just as I was about to turn into the parking lot I looked across the road and saw a new Super Z cutting a large manufacturing property. This is out in a more rural area, an area where you see a car pass maybe once every three minutes.

I decided since I had a few minutes to kill I would ask how the person mowing liked the new Super Z. I noticed he appeared to be mowing at full speed, but this is more sandy type property with stiff blade grass, and a few weeds thrown in the mix from what I saw. I stopped and stepped out of the vehicle as he made another pass then pulled up to where I was standing. I told him I had run Super Z's for many years and wondered what he thought of the new design? He said this was his first experience with Hustler and had previously used nothing but Exmark mowers. He then proceeded to tell me the 31 Kawasaki had ample power in the type grass he cut, and his productivity had probably increased 40%. He made the statement he never really believed all the hype about a Super Z cutting at the speed claimed, but he would now admit it would eat his Exmarks alive, and there was absolutely no comparison in the difference of productivity.

I told him how much difference the Hustler flex forks made in how the mower would ride, and he should seriously consider them. I also told him I had no idea what air pressure he normally ran in his mowers but to never go above 10 psi on the Super Z, and he could move into the 8 psi range which I use for a softer ride than the 10 psi would give. I told him than the lowest air pressure he could run and feel comfortable with would give him the best ride, because the softness of the low pressure tires reacted to rough terrain faster than any mechanical device, and that included the independent suspension such as Ferris uses.

I will tell you this person was totally thrilled by the performance and productivity of his new Super Z. Once he got wound up telling me about all the things he liked about his new mower, which had 39 hrs, I could hardly get away, and was almost late for my appointment. Many times people hate to stop and talk with someone because time is money, but he was getting so much grass cut so quickly, and loved the mower so much, he really wanted to talk detail, and I really enjoyed hearing his thoughts.

Mickhippy
05-01-2012, 05:24 PM
I'd have to agree with the guy Puppy. On large properties my SZ even blows away my old 31hp SZ in productivity. Im seeing up to around 30% better at times.

Im sure the 31 on the new machine would be fine if you didnt have any hills or grass was kept under control but the 37 is certainly recommended if you work in less than perfect conditions regularly.

On another note had a crazy thing happen yesterday.
Mowing this cr@ppy property I felt like the engine changed somehow, more vibrations or something. Got of, had a look for sticks etc in an around the belts etc. Nothing visible and was only at idle was it bad so kept mowing.
About one minute later I start feeling the right stick fighting me to go into reverse. I had problems with the park break on that side a few weeks ago so thought maybe that was it so stop mowing, load up and head to mechanic. I DO NOT wanting the azz end of this machine freezing on a property again. Its so heavy would almost need a skid steer to move it.
Anyway, get to dealer, he gets on and feels the lever, yep, something wrong. Take it around to mechanic. he looks under seat and pulls out this little stone which was wedged between the lever linkage and the pump. I AM AN IDIOT!
Then he check the vibration. We take hydro belt off and theres a little piece of wood wedged in a pulley. I am not just an idiot but, A MORON and embarrassed as all hell!
I could do nothing but put sh!t on myself about it but Ive gone 2 yrs without this sort of thing happening (bits in pulleys) and to have those 2 things happen so quickly to each other I had to think the worst.

weeze
05-01-2012, 08:28 PM
that happened to me before but luckily i found the problem myself. :laugh: i had sweet gum balls getting stuck behind the steering dampners.

cimkill
05-01-2012, 08:42 PM
Realslow. Well I lived in Orlando Florida the last year I was there we had 107 or so murders with a population of around 3mill. Here last year with a population of 350,000 there were 140 some murders. Country is beautiful would be the best place in the world to live if you could get the natives out. People have no value of life, and throw trash everywhere, very narrow minded. The plus side is there is no stress people are laid back and lazy no hustle and bustle. I was in a very stressful high paying job in the states that almost killed me so moved down here to live.

puppypaws
05-01-2012, 09:47 PM
I'd have to agree with the guy Puppy. On large properties my SZ even blows away my old 31hp SZ in productivity. Im seeing up to around 30% better at times.

Im sure the 31 on the new machine would be fine if you didnt have any hills or grass was kept under control but the 37 is certainly recommended if you work in less than perfect conditions regularly.

Does the hydraulics on your new mower pull the power (I would say not) as does the 21cc pumps? I am going to guess your mower will use as much fuel as can be pulled through a 37 hp Kawi due to the cutting conditions in your area. I would be interested in knowing if they have improved the fuel consumption to any degree. I'm going to guess your mower in the type grass you cut is going to be in the 2.5+ gph range, but if you do get into what would be considered medium cutting in this area it may drop into the 2.2to 2.3 gph range. If you get a chance, please check the fuel usage.

Ridin' Green
05-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Realslow. Well I lived in Orlando Florida the last year I was there we had 107 or so murders with a population of around 3mill. Here last year with a population of 350,000 there were 140 some murders. Country is beautiful would be the best place in the world to live if you could get the natives out. People have no value of life, and throw trash everywhere, very narrow minded. The plus side is there is no stress people are laid back and lazy no hustle and bustle. I was in a very stressful high paying job in the states that almost killed me so moved down here to live.

I used to live in the north Orlando area many years back, Altamonte Springs to be exact. I-4 and 436.

Why Belize vs some other place, or another state for that matter? Just curious.

cimkill
05-01-2012, 10:30 PM
I used to live in the north Orlando area many years back, Altamonte Springs to be exact. I-4 and 436.

Why Belize vs some other place, or another state for that matter? Just curious.

I have a buisness plan " not lawn care" that will work here just trying to get financing for it. Have land down here to sell. hasnt sold yet so just biding my time. with real estate the way it is might be a few years. Thats why I started this lawn buisness. Hold me out for a while its doing better than I had anticipated, so just growing it.

Mickhippy
05-01-2012, 11:45 PM
Does the hydraulics on your new mower pull the power (I would say not) as does the 21cc pumps? I am going to guess your mower will use as much fuel as can be pulled through a 37 hp Kawi due to the cutting conditions in your area. I would be interested in knowing if they have improved the fuel consumption to any degree. I'm going to guess your mower in the type grass you cut is going to be in the 2.5+ gph range, but if you do get into what would be considered medium cutting in this area it may drop into the 2.2to 2.3 gph range. If you get a chance, please check the fuel usage.

Best I've got so far cutting normal grass but all slope is 3.5hrs out of 25 liters. You'll have to do the math but I think it's around 1.8gal/hr. I am cutting a lot of grass in those 3.5hrs though.

It hard to say about hydros robbing power. I haven't tried a 31 but IMO the 37 is a good match. I wouldn't want any less for what I've been doing.

I'm surprised you haven't demod one yet. Thought you be right onto it!
I would of appreciated your opinion!
Posted via Mobile Device

mtmower
05-02-2012, 01:51 AM
isn't a cheetah somewhat of a TT and a SZ put together? speed of the super z and cut of the TT.

NO! :nono: And Jason, you've got Cheetah on the brain!:laugh:

Mickhippy
05-02-2012, 02:01 AM
Don't tell his boy/girlfriend.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
05-02-2012, 09:55 AM
Best I've got so far cutting normal grass but all slope is 3.5hrs out of 25 liters. You'll have to do the math but I think it's around 1.8gal/hr. I am cutting a lot of grass in those 3.5hrs though.

It hard to say about hydros robbing power. I haven't tried a 31 but IMO the 37 is a good match. I wouldn't want any less for what I've been doing.

I'm surprised you haven't demod one yet. Thought you be right onto it!
I would of appreciated your opinion!
Posted via Mobile Device

The new dealer who bought out my old dealer is the nicest young man I've had the privilege of being associated with. I never thought it would be possible that anyone could take Chad's (my old dealer) place, but this young man has. The statement you made about wondering why I had not demoed a new Super Z also got me to thinking, so I called my new dealer Ben McAlister. He told me the demo he had was just sold, but he would do everything in his power to get me a new Super Z to try and see what I thought.

I am truly surprised at your fuel usage; your numbers calculate to 1.88 gph, so say 1.9 figuratively speaking, which is very good in the thick moisture laden grass you cut. I take it you have the FX1000V and not the FX1000V-DFI, is that correct? This tells me what I wanted to know, especially since I believe you to have the FX1000V, which is not equipped with the electronic governor. They've definitely made progress with their excessive fuel usage on their big block engines if these are the numbers you are seeing.

I heard many say on the older 37's they saw them use 2 to 2 1/2 gph depending on what they were cutting. The older 37's I operated would drive you crazy listening to the engine run, and I brought this out to Kawasaki. This engine sounded as if the governor was hunting at all times, it was constantly activating the governor in grass where the engine should have never changed sounds.

TLS
05-02-2012, 10:18 AM
With this latest demo, 31hp Kawi SuperZ. I put it to work a little harder. Up and down hills I do side to side with mine, plus the thicker Spring growth.

The 31 is NOT enough. It was more the hills then the grass.

Wish they'd find a way to make a fast mower with more efficient hydros.

The flex forks are now much stiffer. Maybe with the machine weighing considerably more, they had to stiffen them up.

I put 25 hrs last year on this demo, and 12 this past week with the flex forks. I returned it yesterday with 42hrs on the clock.

This demo showed me that I need to be looking at the EFI Lazer.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
05-02-2012, 02:22 PM
With this latest demo, 31hp Kawi SuperZ. I put it to work a little harder. Up and down hills I do side to side with mine, plus the thicker Spring growth.

The 31 is NOT enough. It was more the hills then the grass.

Wish they'd find a way to make a fast mower with more efficient hydros.

The flex forks are now much stiffer. Maybe with the machine weighing considerably more, they had to stiffen them up.

I put 25 hrs last year on this demo, and 12 this past week with the flex forks. I returned it yesterday with 42hrs on the clock.

This demo showed me that I need to be looking at the EFI Lazer.
Posted via Mobile Device

You and I are diehard closed-loop efi, and if other people got a chance to see the difference, they would be turned around as well. Then maybe we could get the attention of these mower companies "SUCH AS HUSTLER" to become more interested in their engine selections. I understand they are trying to go with the name that sells, but Kawasaki is not nearly as popular as it once was, and if anyone had the chance of running the same mower with the big block Vanguard beside the Kawi day in and day out, I can promise their next engine of choice would be the Vanguard.

I honestly find it very hard to believe the EPA has not forced all mower engines to be of closed-loop efi design. The efficiency and pollution factor is so far advanced to what is being used today, and that includes Kawasaki's Digital Fuel Injection, that it should by all rights be mandatory by a certain date. A date I believed would have already come by this time, which makes me wonder if there is money changing hands under the table.

TLS
05-02-2012, 03:21 PM
Not to mention, this particular Kawi (the old 31hp) and a previous (old 29hp) on a Demo Lazer were VERY loud in terms of internal engine (valvetrain) noises.

TLS
05-02-2012, 03:22 PM
Oh, and speaking of weight....

Don't know the exact numbers, but these newer SuperZ's are NOTICEABLY heavier. So much so that I can FEEL it when I tow it on the trailer!

TLS
05-02-2012, 03:51 PM
Here is an email reply I just received today from Kohler asking for more EFI choices.....

Thank you for contacting Kohler Engines!

There are plans to expand fuel injection to additional engine models in the foreseeable future and we hope the equipment manufacturers will agree with your logic. Specific dates are not available at this time.

Best regards,
Keith Kocourek
Service Specialist

Mickhippy
05-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Puppy, those numbers were from cutting "average" grass but all on slope. If cutting average grass on flat ground I would expect better than what I got.
The engine is loud, much louder than the 31 but it is a better sounding loud if that makes sense? Watch this vid and listen to the engine, it barely struggles and I dont here the gov' kick in at all. Some of that grass at about 2.15min was 2' tall or so and thick.... http://youtu.be/XjR5pDmJHXY There are a few other vids if you want to check my channel. Warts n all are what there called.

I agree with both of you about EFI, I held off buying as long as I could due in the hope they might bring one out. My first SZ was the 28efi and it was a good engine although under powered for some of what I do. No way would it handle these new hydros!
This SZ was going to be a 37dfi but something changed before release. I find it difficult to believe Kawi cant supply enough engines when other Manu's can get them. I have also heard Kawi are't keen due to the hydro cooler over the engine and potential for over heating. I personally cant see that really being a problem myself but, who knows?

If I had a choice between a Briggs or Kawi I would of gone Briggs. If I had a choice of carb'd or dfi/efi I would of gone EFI.

TLS, I agree about the weight. It is noticeably heavier on the trailer for sure! The new SZ is close to 100kg heavier at around 680kg from memory. Still lighter than a Turf Tiger though at around 750kg.

Jason, sorry about my silly little joke! Proof one should not drink and type!

puppypaws
05-02-2012, 07:31 PM
Puppy, those numbers were from cutting "average" grass but all on slope. If cutting average grass on flat ground I would expect better than what I got.
The engine is loud, much louder than the 31 but it is a better sounding loud if that makes sense? Watch this vid and listen to the engine, it barely struggles and I dont here the gov' kick in at all. Some of that grass at about 2.15min was 2' tall or so and thick.... http://youtu.be/XjR5pDmJHXY There are a few other vids if you want to check my channel. Warts n all are what there called.

I agree with both of you about EFI, I held off buying as long as I could due in the hope they might bring one out. My first SZ was the 28efi and it was a good engine although under powered for some of what I do. No way would it handle these new hydros!
This SZ was going to be a 37dfi but something changed before release. I find it difficult to believe Kawi cant supply enough engines when other Manu's can get them. I have also heard Kawi are't keen due to the hydro cooler over the engine and potential for over heating. I personally cant see that really being a problem myself but, who knows?

If I had a choice between a Briggs or Kawi I would of gone Briggs. If I had a choice of carb'd or dfi/efi I would of gone EFI.

TLS, I agree about the weight. It is noticeably heavier on the trailer for sure! The new SZ is close to 100kg heavier at around 680kg from memory. Still lighter than a Turf Tiger though at around 750kg.

Jason, sorry about my silly little joke! Proof one should not drink and type!

I don't know what I will be able to figure out from this mower because of excessive power, but they are bringing me a new Super Z with a 60" deck and a 37 hp Kawi. I find it somewhat hard to believe they would put the 37 on a 60" deck, but we'll know next week. I will tell you precisely to one-tenth of a mph exactly how fast this mower is on perfectly flat ground with blades off. They are advertising the Super Z at a hard number of 15 mph ground speed; I am expecting it to be within 4 to 5 tenths of what they are advertising. I want use GPS, but will use a perfect distance and elapsed time which is the most accurate calculation for speed. My dealer is also interested in the speed information as well, when he tells a customer he is buying a 15 mph mower, he wants to believe these numbers are accurate.

TLS
05-02-2012, 07:36 PM
Puppy,

The 60" 37hp is probably about right. The 31 was underpowered. The hydros are what works it so hard, not so much the width of cut.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
05-02-2012, 07:44 PM
I don't know what I will be able to figure out from this mower because of excessive power, but they are bringing me a new Super Z with a 60" deck and a 37 hp Kawi. I find it somewhat hard to believe they would put the 37 on a 60" deck, but we'll know next week. I will tell you precisely to one-tenth of a mph exactly how fast this mower is on perfectly flat ground with blades off. They are advertising the Super Z at a hard number of 15 mph ground speed; I am expecting it to be within 4 to 5 tenths of what they are advertising. I want use GPS, but will use a perfect distance and elapsed time which is the most accurate calculation for speed. My dealer is also interested in the speed information as well, when he tells a customer he is buying a 15 mph mower, he wants to believe these numbers are accurate.

Mate, even if its a bit out, mine is well fast enough believe me! Thing is, the torque of the hydros and the ample power make it virtually unstoppable. I do have to slow down if the grass is thick, wet and on slope but the deck can only get so much clippings out of it.
I understand what your saying though.. If they say it goes "X" fast, then it should but IMO, that would be up to the dealer to sort out on pre delivery like checking the deck for level etc.

I know your lawns are level and you keep it short so you may not see the benefit in this new machine but, put a couple hours on it and let me know what you think.
Maybe ask dealer to bring out some G6 blades as well for comparison.
You may miss the flex seat, I do!

puppypaws
05-02-2012, 08:44 PM
Mate, even if its a bit out, mine is well fast enough believe me! Thing is, the torque of the hydros and the ample power make it virtually unstoppable. I do have to slow down if the grass is thick, wet and on slope but the deck can only get so much clippings out of it.
I understand what your saying though.. If they say it goes "X" fast, then it should but IMO, that would be up to the dealer to sort out on pre delivery like checking the deck for level etc.

I know your lawns are level and you keep it short so you may not see the benefit in this new machine but, put a couple hours on it and let me know what you think.
Maybe ask dealer to bring out some G6 blades as well for comparison.
You may miss the flex seat, I do!

I'll put a few hrs. on the mower and see what it has to offer, but remember my cutting is totally different; as a matter of fact, in the past 20 minutes, I mowed the main body of my lawn that my house sits on. I had to open a gate and cut inside where the dogs play, then cut the remainder, probably 1 1/4 acres with all trimming done by the Super Z, spent more time turning than mowing. I thought to myself, if I was not on a mower this fast, I could never finish before it got too dark to see. It really amazes me the amount of grass I can cut in a short period each time I use the mower. The grass is short and perfectly dry, meaning once I get the machine turned back into a straight direction it is immediately cutting at full speed, and the only thing that slows me down is when I make the next turn.

The only way this new mower can increase my productivity (if it had the same 66" deck that's on mine), is to cut at a faster rate of speed, and I know the ride will be nowhere comparable because I've driven a new one with the 37 Kawi and a 72" deck for several hundred feet on relatively smooth terrain. I was thinking to myself as I was driving that the ride was not close to my mower with the flex forks and flex seat, something that makes a tremendous difference by removing the back slap, but cannot be fitted to the newly designed Super Z. There is a must that you have the ride to go along with the speed, if not you can't utilize the extra productivity.

TLS
05-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Hustler needs to get a flex seat going soon, or just offer the iso-mounts like eXmark uses.

This demo I had last week had flex forms, but only the suspension seat. I have regular forks but suspension seat and flex seat. The flex seat is truely one of their best innovations!

Also, if the 2006 era flex forks were as stiff as they are made now, I'd likely have gone with them. Back then they were too soft in my opinion.
Posted via Mobile Device

weeze
05-02-2012, 10:15 PM
NO! :nono: And Jason, you've got Cheetah on the brain!:laugh:

well i know the pumps are different but other than that. speed is speed. i think both pump designs hold up well. obviously the hustler is better because the pumps are industrial grade but the cut on the hustler isn't as good as the velocity plus.

i guess i do have cheetah on the brain. you ever watch thunder cats cartoon back in the day? cheetara? i think that was her name. :laugh: anyways i've read alot on here about hustler cutting issues so that is steering me away from buying a hustler. i think they've got everything else figured out but they need to fix the cutting issues.

maybe put a velocity plus deck or a 7 iron pro deck on your super z? that is the best solution. :laugh:

TNGrassCutter
05-02-2012, 10:52 PM
I would take a velocity plus deck with a hustler drive system on a frame and motor of a zd331
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
05-03-2012, 05:45 AM
I would take a velocity plus deck with a hustler drive system on a frame and motor of a zd331
Posted via Mobile Device

What motor are you speaking of on the ZD331, you definitely have the other two main components correct.

The Scag Cheetah may have all one needs, but I honestly can't comment with running one; I've heard positives on this machine, and would love to give one a try. The ride and handling (smoothness of hydraulics) on my Super Z are second to none, but I also have $500+ in extras to help my machine ride better.

Hustler needs to get a flex seat going soon, or just offer the iso-mounts like eXmark uses.

This demo I had last week had flex forms, but only the suspension seat. I have regular forks but suspension seat and flex seat. The flex seat is truely one of their best innovations!

Also, if the 2006 era flex forks were as stiff as they are made now, I'd likely have gone with them. Back then they were too soft in my opinion.
Posted via Mobile Device

I change flex forks, and you're right, the first ones produced fatigued to easily. I wonder if we could verify they definitely changed the rubber compostion to adjust for the heavier machine, is there any way for you to verify this?

TLS
05-03-2012, 06:54 AM
Previously I could stand on the front caster arms and jump to show people the flexing fork action. I was unable to do this with this new one!

Also saw less side hill lean in the cut. And only made crop circles once on a rough lawn at high speed.

The velocity plus deck needs a deck wrapper and tuck those stupid scalp wheels in somewhere.

Or just add a couple more gallons of fuel capacity and I'd buy one!
Posted via Mobile Device

TNGrassCutter
05-03-2012, 09:10 AM
The 31 horse kubota diesel. I will hopefully be trying out a new super z in the next few weeks so I can give some feedback. I've been following these threads about it and seems to have mixed reviews.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
05-03-2012, 10:20 AM
The 31 horse kubota diesel. I will hopefully be trying out a new super z in the next few weeks so I can give some feedback. I've been following these threads about it and seems to have mixed reviews.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think there are many positives about the new Super Z, especially the hydraulics with their super warranty. Depending on the grass from what I'm reading is where the cut issues come into play. The type grass I cut would more than likely never be an issue until crabgrass comes into play.

The new Super Z my dealer is bringing me to try next week with the 37 hp Kawi on a 60" deck should never change sounds in the type grass I cut. I am also expecting the discharge to be dispersing equally across the newly designed larger opening, with a discharge distance of at least 3 cut swaths while fanning for even distribution. We will find out shortly what the true differences may actually be in my cutting situation.

The 31 Kubota diesel is, in my opinion, the best zero turn diesel engine made, but I can tell you now without reservation it will not have the power of the big block Vanguard, Generac, and possibly the Kawasaki. The fuel consumption is in the .5 gph range with the 31 Kubota diesel.

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 11:01 AM
I think there are many positives about the new Super Z, especially the hydraulics with their super warranty. Depending on the grass from what I'm reading is where the cut issues come into play. The type grass I cut would more than likely never be an issue until crabgrass comes into play.

The new Super Z my dealer is bringing me to try next week with the 37 hp Kawi on a 60" deck should never change sounds in the type grass I cut. I am also expecting the discharge to be dispersing equally across the newly designed larger opening, with a discharge distance of at least 3 cut swaths while fanning for even distribution. We will find out shortly what the true differences may actually be in my cutting situation.

The 31 Kubota diesel is, in my opinion, the best zero turn diesel engine made, but I can tell you now without reservation it will not have the power of the big block Vanguard, Generac, and possibly the Kawasaki. The fuel consumption is in the .5 gph range with the 31 Kubota diesel.

You should have him bring you a 72 37 Horse

:weightlifter:

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
i have a ? for you guy's about the new Super,would it be possible with mods to mount the new bigger blade spindle on a XR 7 ? and how much work would it take. I want to update my SZ's a little bit but do not want to buy new ones.

weeze
05-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Or just add a couple more gallons of fuel capacity and I'd buy one!Posted via Mobile Device

forgot to say that's one good thing about the cheetah. it holds 15 gallons of gas!

puppypaws
05-03-2012, 01:58 PM
You should have him bring you a 72 37 Horse

:weightlifter:

I had to take what the rep was allowed to offer, my choice to really see how much guts the 37 Kawi has would have been the 72".

mtmower
05-03-2012, 03:31 PM
i have a ? for you guy's about the new Super,would it be possible with mods to mount the new bigger blade spindle on a XR 7 ? and how much work would it take. I want to update my SZ's a little bit but do not want to buy new ones.

Are you having spindle problems? What would be the benefit to install the newer style spindle?

TLS
05-03-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't think that they would work. But I'm not totally sure.

They are a more robust spindle with a thicker shaft and bottom bearing closer to the plane of cut.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 04:23 PM
I had to take what the rep was allowed to offer, my choice to really see how much guts the 37 Kawi has would have been the 72".

if you buy one demo a 72, I will never buy another 60 and will go from a 48-52 skip 60 and just go 72. Your 66 should be 15% faster than a 60 and a 72 15% faster than your 66.

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Are you having spindle problems? What would be the benefit to install the newer style spindle? The stock spindle on a XR7 Super is a 3/4 inches the new one is 1 inch. The 3/4 are fine until you hit something solid but thet are a 5 minute job to replace and cheap so they are still pretty good. I do alot of industrial jobs so I need heavy duty spindles.

Ridin' Green
05-03-2012, 04:58 PM
The stock spindle on a XR7 Super is a 3/4 inches the new one is 1 inch. The 3/4 are fine until you hit something solid but thet are a 5 minute job to replace and cheap so they are still pretty good. I do alot of industrial jobs so I need heavy duty spindles.

According the my 2012 Hustler catalog, the new spindle shafts are 1.5". That's a seriously stout spindle shaft.

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 05:05 PM
According the my 2012 Hustler catalog, the new spindle shafts are 1.5". That's a seriously stout spindle shaft.maybe the stock spindle is 1 inch

Ridin' Green
05-03-2012, 05:15 PM
maybe the stock spindle is 1 inch

Well now, in this Hustler video (the little thumbnail on the right in the group of four to the left), the guy says they are 1.25", not 1.5". It's at the 4:38 mark where he starts talking about the new spindle-

http://www.hustlerturf.com/products/super-z.html

mtmower
05-03-2012, 06:00 PM
I just got rained out so I'm waiting about 20 min. for my wife to get home with the gas saver to make a three hr. round trip to go demo the 60" 37 hp SZ. Even if I like it I'm still struggling weather it's worth $2500.00 more than the Gravely 460.:confused:

Mickhippy
05-03-2012, 06:12 PM
The only way this new mower can increase my productivity (if it had the same 66" deck that's on mine), is to cut at a faster rate of speed, and I know the ride will be nowhere comparable because I've driven a new one with the 37 Kawi and a 72" deck for several hundred feet on relatively smooth terrain. I was thinking to myself as I was driving that the ride was not close to my mower with the flex forks and flex seat, something that makes a tremendous difference by removing the back slap, but cannot be fitted to the newly designed Super Z. There is a must that you have the ride to go along with the speed, if not you can't utilize the extra productivity.

I have the Flex seat on the old machine, but not the forks. I have the flex fork on this new SZ but not the seat.
The long wheel base, extra weight and the flex forks all do help with ride but yes, the flex seat would be nice. Like I said, I do miss it!

Ive seen what you mow and I know you mow very often. Thats why I said this machine may not be worth it to you. But, knowing you like to demo, I was just surprised you hadnt yet!
There is a big difference between the 2 machines. Spend a couple of hours on the new one then jump straight onto yours. You'll notice it straight away!
I had to take my old one out for a day a couple of weeks ago, I couldnt wait to get back on the new one.
Anyway, again, let me know your thoughts after the demo!

Mickhippy
05-03-2012, 06:13 PM
I just got rained out so I'm waiting about 20 min. for my wife to get home with the gas saver to make a three hr. round trip to go demo the 60" 37 hp SZ. Even if I like it I'm still struggling weather it's worth $2500.00 more than the Gravely 460.:confused:

Good luck and give it hell! haaa

Realslowww
05-03-2012, 11:14 PM
I'll put a few hrs. on the mower and see what it has to offer, but remember my cutting is totally different; as a matter of fact, in the past 20 minutes, I mowed the main body of my lawn that my house sits on. I had to open a gate and cut inside where the dogs play, then cut the remainder, probably 1 1/4 acres with all trimming done by the Super Z, spent more time turning than mowing. I thought to myself, if I was not on a mower this fast, I could never finish before it got too dark to see. It really amazes me the amount of grass I can cut in a short period each time I use the mower. The grass is short and perfectly dry, meaning once I get the machine turned back into a straight direction it is immediately cutting at full speed, and the only thing that slows me down is when I make the next turn.

The only way this new mower can increase my productivity (if it had the same 66" deck that's on mine), is to cut at a faster rate of speed, and I know the ride will be nowhere comparable because I've driven a new one with the 37 Kawi and a 72" deck for several hundred feet on relatively smooth terrain. I was thinking to myself as I was driving that the ride was not close to my mower with the flex forks and flex seat, something that makes a tremendous difference by removing the back slap, but cannot be fitted to the newly designed Super Z. There is a must that you have the ride to go along with the speed, if not you can't utilize the extra productivity. For you if you were getting a new one I would think the standard Super Z with a 31 kawie and 72 would be the best bargain. Fuel at 4 or 5 $ a gallon will add up quick with a 37. that big mower with the 37 and the Hyper drive is for people who need a big drive with big power for doing like what I posted in another post, large areas of over grown grass on steep inclines. I have worn my drive system out by doing real steep grades and I might be able to justify one if I get more jobs like the one I have that wore my drive out.

mtmower
05-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Good luck and give it hell! haaa


No dice! Called down about 30 min before posting and talked to a salesman. Asked how the weather was and it wasn't sunshine and blue skies, but it was dry. Told the salesman to let manager I was on my way. Once my wife got home I called one more time and asked for the manager directly. He said he was glad I called and was getting ready to try and catch me to let me know the unit was taken to another store about another 1.5 hrs. away yesterday while he was off. Said he told them not to take it because it might be sold but what are you gonna do if the owner wants it moved. Asked me when he wanted him to get it back. I told him what ever works but I may be pulling the trigger tomorrow. He said he had a 66" with the 31 hp yet I could demo. I told him no thanks and let me know if he gets the 60" back in soon. Maybe it's a sign.

Mickhippy
05-04-2012, 12:03 AM
No sign mate other than someone wants the machine. Give them a chance to sort it before turning to the hippy way of thinking.
Posted via Mobile Device

randy100170
05-04-2012, 03:17 AM
I am writing in regards to Hustlers VX4 technology decks.
True facts regarding Hustler VX4 technology.
1. Versatility. Hustlerís definition is Ėadjustable front inner wall allows deck performance to be optimized for all grass conditions and seasons. I personally feel the deck structure is built very well however it is not the best deck for all grass conditions and seasons.
2. Velocity. Hustlerís definition is the progressively larger tunnel in front of the blades, and a wider discharge opening, moves grass through the deck faster resulting in greater discharge dispersion. I personally feel that this design moves less grass through the deck slower resulting in less discharge dispersion. Due to Hustler running shorter blades and thus allowing less outside wrapper skirts and the outside blades mounted further forward creating less wrapper skirts causes less material carried through the deck.
3. Volume. Hustlerís definition is higher air and grass volume through-out results in less material carried in the cutting chambers. This allows for higher ground speed without compromising cut quality. I personally feel due to the spindle position and less outside wrapper skirts surrounding the blades decreased air and grass volume and yes it does have less material in the cutting chambers. This deck has less air and grass volume then prior models.
4. Vacuum. Hustlerís definition states the grass is lifted more effectively. This results in a crisp, clean cut and appearance every time. I personally feel that Hustler knows they have a problem with the vacuum on this deck. The engineering department came out with a high vacuum kit for the 48, 54, 60, 66, and 72 inch decks. Knowing they have a problem with the vacuum system for the VX4 technology decks. Hustlerís definition for the vacuum kits states that in some grass conditions where the grass blades are thin and limp, the velocity of the air moving through the front of the deck may not be able to produce enough vacuum to stand the grass back up before being cut. This results in areas of inconsistent cut across the deck width. Hustler knows they have vacuum issues with their VX4 decks however they apparently are not in production for any of these kits.
The main problem with the VX4 technology decks is they are running less skirt wrappers around the backside of the blades. Also they are running shorter blades for the deck width thus resulting in the 2 outside blades running further forward on the deck resulting in less skirt wrappers.
Then Hustler opened up the front air channel in front of the blades decreasing the discharge velocity.
I owe an older Hustler Super Z and feel that the new VX4 should be comparable to the older deck design. With this new technology you would think it would be better or comparable but it is not. I am really disappointed in this new technology as a business owner. My super z has the older version before the xr7 decks came out
To fix this problem I feel they would need to run at least 19Ē blades with more outside wrapper skirt in a 54Ē deck mower and less of an opening in front of the blades. The spindle position would need to be further back into the deck resulting in more wrapper skirt. This would increase the velocity volume as well as the vacuum. Hustlerís older designs worked much better than this new VX4 technology.

Mickhippy
05-04-2012, 09:18 AM
Randy, we get it! For fcuk sake, just buy a Scag ok!

TLS
05-04-2012, 09:23 AM
^^^^^^^^
LIKE.!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
05-04-2012, 01:21 PM
Randy, we get it! For fcuk sake, just buy a Scag ok!

My thoughts almost exactly Mick!! As soon as I saw that posted again, I scrolled down to say something similar, but saw that you had beaten me to it.

Randy, just because you feel a certain way about the deck, doesn't make it fact:nono:. It just means you feel that way about it.

randy100170
05-04-2012, 10:49 PM
Anyone interested in a new Hustler x-one 54" deck with a 29Hp Kawasaki engine the mower only has 3 hours asking $8200 Ph 620-275-2840 located in Southwest KS

TLS
05-05-2012, 06:47 AM
Does it have that fantastic VX4 deck on it?

Too bad it's not a 60", as you could try the better blades that the SuperZ uses.
Posted via Mobile Device

randy100170
05-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Yes it has the terrible vx4 deck which to me stands for low vacumn, low volumn,and low velosity and so so versatility. Hustler even sent us ultra hi lift blades however our older design deck on our super z works and performs twice as good it is the model before the xr7 series came out. Hustler has changed designs and still cant compare to the exmarks we also have.

mtmower
05-05-2012, 10:19 PM
Randy where are you cutting? I'd have to agree that the standard deck is a better deck than the XR7 for northern grass. The XR7 cuts just as well as anything out there and at speed to boot (after the baffle kits are installed that were sent out after the fact). It just has terrible clipping dispersal. Sorry to hear your troubles with the VX4.

randy100170
05-06-2012, 02:05 AM
95% of our lawns are fescue and bluegrass hi end accounts where we have to catch about 75% of the time with accelerator grass catchers. Mowing at 3 1/2" in Southwest KS

mtmower
05-06-2012, 10:51 AM
Just a thought, and you may have already tried this, but since your in Southwest KS, have you tried contacting the boys in Northeast corner of KS in Hesston KS (manufacturer?) I've contacted them on several occasions over the last 11 years or so and they were pretty helpful. Being your much closer than most of us I'd twist their arm and see if they couldn't send out someone directly to you to see first hand what problems your having and possibly have it remedied. It couldn't hurt and may be beneficial to the them as well.

TLS
05-06-2012, 09:39 PM
With a 54" deck, your really limited on blade choices. With 60" you have a boat load of choices.

tshank
05-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Randy where are you cutting? I'd have to agree that the standard deck is a better deck than the XR7 for northern grass. The XR7 cuts just as well as anything out there and at speed to boot (after the baffle kits are installed that were sent out after the fact). It just has terrible clipping dispersal. Sorry to hear your troubles with the VX4.

Weird how much conditions can affect cut. Had an original XR7, added the lift kit, then bought an HT with a 31 Kaw and the B deck. B deck is basically the same as the orig. with the lift kit. I have tried every combination I can think of and always go back to the same combo. Remove the baffle, retain the front skirt and run high lift 3" blades, accept the fact that 95% of the time you have to double cut to get decent appearance and don't cut above 3.5". Think a 7Iron deck would be ideal, but you have to take the John Deere along with it. Scag TT would be good, too big, too heavy, and rides like a wagon. Flex forks and seat, hard to give up. Mow some rough areas, I'm too old to mess with throwing off hydro pump belts. Good thing I don't have to make a living with this thing.

puppypaws
05-09-2012, 05:48 PM
I started a thread on the new (zero hours) Super Z 72" with a 37 Kawi they delivered today. We are having too much rain, but I did run it enough to check the speed and cut maybe an acre of damp grass.

Mickhippy
05-09-2012, 08:10 PM
I have adjusted the front skirt up an notch for a lawn today. Its long and damp so will see if it makes things better or worse.
I should add, it was REALLY easy to do. Took like 5mins or so. I should of tried this ages ago but thought there was more to it. Im an idiot!

Mickhippy
05-11-2012, 05:37 PM
I mowed a property yesterday that had areas where it has been leaving those clumps. I was cutting approx 3 to 4" off in that area and it didnt leave any, or very few clumps. The grass was pretty dry and not as long as has been the case but still, it left a pretty good cut.
I am really hoping that raising that front skirt fixes the problem. I spoke to my dealer about it the other day and he's going to look into it for me as well. See if anyone else is having issue here and if theyve found a fix.

This property in the pics below is basically the one I have the most issues with. This time it had 4 weeks between cuts so very long and thick and you can see the dark wheel marks in the lawn from the bio cycle run off near the african tulip (tree with orange flowers in middle of the lawn). There were places where it clumped bad (that wet area for one) but over all I think raising the front skirt is helping.

The close up of the clipping dispersal shows an area where the lawn was at its thickest. This area drew every bit of power from the 37 it could muster to give an idea. Sure, there are clippings on top and a few clumps but I wish I had of taken "before" photos. It was very hard going and I dont expect miracles. I also got it done close to 1hr faster than with the older 08 SZ.

Realslowww
05-11-2012, 06:54 PM
That property is huge,I would have a 72 with about 3 additional 72 pull behinds on each side of the mower.

Ridin' Green
05-11-2012, 10:27 PM
Hey Mick,
it looks like it is helping some eh? It also looks like you can at least stripe some of your properties judging by the middle pic.:)

cimkill
05-12-2012, 12:28 AM
Wow gorgeous property. Looks really good. I wish I had some like that!

Mickhippy
05-12-2012, 02:54 AM
Thanks guys but it should looking immaculate at the moment. It's not!
Things are changing there. I think the owner has lost interest so it's probably going to suffer for it.
Not sure how much long I'll be doin it now either. Had it since around 2004. I'd be spewing to loose it that's for sure!
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
12-06-2012, 05:10 PM
Sold/delivered my old machine (940hrs) yesterday so took a few pics...

puppypaws
12-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Sold/delivered my old machine (940hrs) yesterday so took a few pics...

I sure hate my see through site gauge on the fuel tanks were eliminated because of our EPA.

Give me your opinion of pros and cons between the XR-7 and your new VX4. My XR-7 is still performing extremely well in the type grasses I cut. The VX4 also does an excellent job as well, but I find myself picking the old mower over the new one in the dry conditions due to blow-out. Have you not seen what I'm speaking of concerning the dry grass rolling up and onto the deck and operator?

Mickhippy
12-06-2012, 05:43 PM
As you know, Ive had my issues wit the VX4 but I dont seem to get blow out unless I have the OCDC shut, which is understandable. The air has to go somewhere!
Its been dry and grass is slow growing, only had a few clumps in a few damp areas when the grass is long and thick in those spots. Basically, I think my mods have helped but its still to early to tell if I have it sorted.

At the end of the day, I prefer the old deck!

puppypaws
12-06-2012, 05:52 PM
As you know, Ive had my issues wit the VX4 but I dont seem to get blow out unless I have the OCDC shut, which is understandable. The air has to go somewhere!
Its been dry and grass is slow growing, only had a few clumps in a few damp areas when the grass is long and thick in those spots. Basically, I think my mods have helped but its still to early to tell if I have it sorted.

At the end of the day, I prefer the old deck!

I would have taken bets you still prefer the XR-7 over the VX4, but I wanted you to put it in print for everyone to see.

The XR-7 deck on your new mower with the added hp would probably be a great machine in your area.

Mickhippy
12-06-2012, 06:17 PM
The XR-7 deck on your new mower with the added hp "and hydros" would probably be a great machine in your area.

If the grass is really dry, I dont have a problem but add any moisture, the clumping raises its ugly head.

puppypaws
12-06-2012, 08:11 PM
If the grass is really dry, I dont have a problem but add any moisture, the clumping raises its ugly head.

The new hydraulic system in my old mower operates equally as well as my new HyperDrive system, just slightly less effort to operate the old machine, of which my wife likes much better. The new machine is a little tighter feeling when operating, but this is something many would like. The smoothness of both my mowers is great, but my wife likes the freer movement of the old mower's new pumps and wheel motors; she says there is less effort in operation of the old mower in her opinion.

I've been on several others Super Z mowers, and have yet to operate an older model smooth as mine. I operated a friends about one month ago, and it felt like a worn out piece of junk, I honestly could not believe there could be that much difference. His mower felt as if the hydraulics could fail at any minute, and I doubt seriously it will be very long until they do.

Mickhippy
12-06-2012, 09:54 PM
The new hydraulic system in my old mower operates equally as well as my new HyperDrive system, just slightly less effort to operate the old machine, of which my wife likes much better. The new machine is a little tighter feeling when operating, but this is something many would like. The smoothness of both my mowers is great, but my wife likes the freer movement of the old mower's new pumps and wheel motors; she says there is less effort in operation of the old mower in her opinion.

I've been on several others Super Z mowers, and have yet to operate an older model smooth as mine. I operated a friends about one month ago, and it felt like a worn out piece of junk, I honestly could not believe there could be that much difference. His mower felt as if the hydraulics could fail at any minute, and I doubt seriously it will be very long until they do.

The hydros on my old one are still good and strong. They are a little jerky compared to the new machine but it Im sure its just the dampeners. I never noticed it when I was using it all the time but after operating the new machine, there was a big difference.
I sold the old one so as there "should be" a few hundred hours life left in it. A home owner bought it so 2 or 3hrs a week should last a while.

Im sorry to see it go actually. Was a great machine and would of liked to keep it as back up but due to the dry weather, poor economy etc I needed the money. Got a fair price for it and thanks to Banjo on here, didnt cost a cent in advertising.

puppypaws
12-07-2012, 08:27 AM
The hydros on my old one are still good and strong. They are a little jerky compared to the new machine but it Im sure its just the dampeners. I never noticed it when I was using it all the time but after operating the new machine, there was a big difference.
I sold the old one so as there "should be" a few hundred hours life left in it. A home owner bought it so 2 or 3hrs a week should last a while.

Im sorry to see it go actually. Was a great machine and would of liked to keep it as back up but due to the dry weather, poor economy etc I needed the money. Got a fair price for it and thanks to Banjo on here, didnt cost a cent in advertising.

That was a good deal for you as well as the new owner.

There has never been the least bit of jerkiness in my old mower, there wasn't before I had both pumps and wheel motors replaced, and it feels exactly as when it was new. This is one reason I had everything on the mower completely renewed, what I now have is two new Super Z mowers with different decks, for 3/4 of the price I would have spent.

I would not have completely rebuilt everything as I did if it were not for the fact I have one of the best mechanics in the country. He is so meticulous he works on mowers with the diligence of a heart surgeon. He did a wonderful job paying extreme attention to all detail. He changed all electrical components and wiring, including rewiring the new clutch I had installed. Where many mechanics would fall behind is routing and bundling all wires throughout the entire system, and he actually did this while making it look better than factory work.

You can see the detail in this photo, of how he replaced all hoses and wiring, while paying very close attention to the routing of each hose, and bundling and routing of all wiring very precisely. Look at the number of wire ties he used, it's probably twice what an average mechanic would use. You will notice these are all new relays, and he even replaced new the plastic sheathing covering the wires up to the engine.

You may not have noticed this, but that is also a new control panel, I took no shortcuts.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=259997&stc=1&d=1352418457

Mickhippy
12-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Just want to wish you guys a Merry Christmas. (Its xmas here already)

Got up early and went for a surf. 3-5', water temp around 24'c (about 1 deg lower than air temp at time) and a high of 30'c predicted today with 67% humidity!

Todays prawns and beer will be very cold!

Merry Christmas!!!!:drinkup:

Ridin' Green
12-24-2012, 04:44 PM
MERRY CHRISTMAS mate!!:drinkup:

weeze
12-24-2012, 04:46 PM
merry christmas hippy!!! have a good one!!

mtmower
12-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Merry christmas! No surf'n here. Only swells I'm seeing are on the front of my plow!

puppypaws
12-24-2012, 09:14 PM
Just want to wish you guys a Merry Christmas. (Its xmas here already)

Got up early and went for a surf. 3-5', water temp around 24'c (about 1 deg lower than air temp at time) and a high of 30'c predicted today with 67% humidity!

Todays prawns and beer will be very cold!

Merry Christmas!!!!:drinkup:

When the air temp gets to 30 Celsius (86 Fahrenheit) the 24 Celsius...75 Fahrenheit water want feel too bad with about a six pack under the belt.

Merry Christmas to you as well my friend!!!

Mickhippy
02-02-2013, 05:20 PM
Im having charging issues with the SZ now. We thought it was a the battery so replaced with new one last week however, for some reason the battery isnt getting enough to stay charged.
Anyone else had this problem? If so, what was the solution? Stator?
Its going to be looked at again tomorrow morning so any ideas on where to look would be great.

While in at the mechanics, he noticed the exhaust has a crack in it! 1 year, 250ish hours! Thats NOT impressive!

TLS
02-02-2013, 05:27 PM
The charging seems like it may be related to why we don't see any more EFI Super-Z's as the alternator capacity is exceeded with that big fan and the computer. Is the fan on a temp switch, or on constantly like the older ones. A simple temp switch would keep it off when no needed.

The exhaust crack is just absurd. They had such a problem with my era ones, I thought they addressed this? Ugghhh!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
02-02-2013, 05:37 PM
The charging seems like it may be related to why we don't see any more EFI Super-Z's as the alternator capacity is exceeded with that big fan and the computer. Is the fan on a temp switch, or on constantly like the older ones. A simple temp switch would keep it off when no needed.

The exhaust crack is just absurd. They had such a problem with my era ones, I thought they addressed this? Ugghhh!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

If its the fan, I would of had problems ages ago. The new battery only lasted a few hours.
Second last job last week I could tell it was going flat. Last job it really struggled to get started, but it did. Half way through the job the blades stopped. I loaded onto trailer (incase I couldnt get it going again) and checked fuses. They were fine but no way was the engine starting again.
Went to mechanic and started right up with a jump start.

Ive had to replace an exhaust on a older machine. Had one welded up on last machine.
Where the pipe splits into 2, the crack is on one of those pipes where its welded onto the exhaust "stack" or what ever its called!

puppypaws
02-02-2013, 06:56 PM
If its the fan, I would of had problems ages ago. The new battery only lasted a few hours.
Second last job last week I could tell it was going flat. Last job it really struggled to get started, but it did. Half way through the job the blades stopped. I loaded onto trailer (incase I couldnt get it going again) and checked fuses. They were fine but no way was the engine starting again.
Went to mechanic and started right up with a jump start.

Ive had to replace an exhaust on a older machine. Had one welded up on last machine.
Where the pipe splits into 2, the crack is on one of those pipes where its welded onto the exhaust "stack" or what ever its called!

How much voltage is the charging system producing? I suppose the newly installed battery was fully charged, if not this can cause an inferior reading when checking the charging system output. Hustler is working on installing a larger charging system for the fact the Kawasaki DFI cannot be implemented until more voltage is produced, or at least that is what I was told.

Mickhippy
02-04-2013, 03:51 PM
It seems the wire that charges the battery was a bit loose and had gunk in the connector. Im hoping its ok now as it worked hard yesterday and battery still held 13v when tested after.
Since its getting charge, if it happens again it could be the clutch drawing to much power.

TLS
02-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Sounds like that was your problem. Glad to hear!

puppypaws
02-04-2013, 09:17 PM
It seems the wire that charges the battery was a bit loose and had gunk in the connector. Im hoping its ok now as it worked hard yesterday and battery still held 13v when tested after.
Since its getting charge, if it happens again it could be the clutch drawing to much power.

Hustler says they are working on implementing a stronger charging system; so hopefully the DFI can be added to their engine lineup. I told my dealer if the DFI was brought on line I would trade my mower, which only has 25 hrs. for a new one with fuel injection.

Mickhippy
02-04-2013, 10:02 PM
Hustler says they are working on implementing a stronger charging system; so hopefully the DFI can be added to their engine lineup. I told my dealer if the DFI was brought on line I would trade my mower, which only has 25 hrs. for a new one with fuel injection.

Ive read that but for me its too little, too late! I doubt I'd get another SZ now. Bad discharge has come back to haunt me. I can cut a lot of long grass very quickly (and getting expected results) but Im getting windrows and clumping even going very slowly on "normal" length grass.


I bought myself a cheap multimeter and tested the charge lead.
Batt at high revs 12.5v. Pushed/firmed the charge lead connector to the regulator and batt went up to 13.5v. So my monies on the connector coming loose.

StanWilhite
02-04-2013, 10:38 PM
Ive read that but for me its too little, too late! I doubt I'd get another SZ now. Bad discharge has come back to haunt me. I can cut a lot of long grass very quickly (and getting expected results) but Im getting windrows and clumping even going very slowly on "normal" length grass.


I bought myself a cheap multimeter and tested the charge lead.
Batt at high revs 12.5v. Pushed/firmed the charge lead connector to the regulator and batt went up to 13.5v. So my monies on the connector coming loose.

I'm surprised that you don't have more trouble with equipment than you do.....being that everything is "upside down" the way it is! :confused::rolleyes:

Mickhippy
02-04-2013, 10:41 PM
I'm surprised that you don't have more trouble with equipment than you do.....being that everything is "upside down" the way it is! :confused::rolleyes:

OMG, thats the funniest sh!t Ive ever heard................... NOT!:hammerhead:
Haaa

Our fuel pumps are bigger than yours!:cool2:

Ridin' Green
02-04-2013, 10:44 PM
Sorry 'bout all the problems Mick. It just flat sucks.

What do ya think ya may wanna try for your next Z?

Mickhippy
02-04-2013, 11:00 PM
Im stuck with this for a few years but "IF" I get another machine, from what I have to choose from right now, probably a Scag TT with the 35 Briggs. In hindsight, I should of got the Scag this time but I wanted a better right and hydros.
Biggest problem is dealers. Only good one I know is a Scag dealer!

To be honest, I just dont know. If I got offered a job somewhere, I'd probably take it.
Im pretty much over dealing with weather, machinery and azzhole customers! Just been a hard few months mate, its wearing me down!

Ridin' Green
02-04-2013, 11:04 PM
So far, I really like this Z950 (other than the ride), but I still wish once in a while I had went with the TT/61"/35 myself. It's just a tried and true combo.
I hear ya on the other stuff, and it's one reason I do many things besides just mowing. ;)

puppypaws
02-05-2013, 07:14 AM
Ive read that but for me its too little, too late! I doubt I'd get another SZ now. Bad discharge has come back to haunt me. I can cut a lot of long grass very quickly (and getting expected results) but Im getting windrows and clumping even going very slowly on "normal" length grass.


I bought myself a cheap multimeter and tested the charge lead.
Batt at high revs 12.5v. Pushed/firmed the charge lead connector to the regulator and batt went up to 13.5v. So my monies on the connector coming loose.

I would guess the discharge problem has something to do with how your size VX4 is handling the composition of your area's grass. I wish you knew someone nearby that has the 72" VX4; it would be interesting to find out if they are seeing the same problem. I know I've seen no sign of this with my 72, but with spring coming up, the story may change.

TLS
02-05-2013, 08:09 AM
Deck size has a lot to do with things. About as much as type of grass affects things.

My 60" XR-7 cuts like crap... pretty much always did. Buddy has the same mower with the 66" XR-7. He has never complained about cut quality.

I have experienced the windrows on the VX4 demo's that I had. It wasn't long grass. Just medium height grass that any other mower just fans out smooth, the VX4 just puddled in a windrow.

Mickhippy
02-05-2013, 08:18 AM
Weve been in drought for the last few months, little growth and very dry. Had zero problems except where grey water is released. Last week we received approx 400mm of rain in 3 or 4 days (and up to 100km/h wind) and showers the last few days so basically, the grass is full of water and growing fast. Like I say, I expect problems when its damp, lush, thick and long but after seeing a Scag TT cutting the same stuff, the VX4 deck isnt as good. The TT was leaving a few clumps but not like what I get.

I havent seen another SZ on a trailer yet!

Ridin, I used to have a good JD dealer back when I had the X595 but theyve gone now and I just dont trust any dealers except for the Scag guy. Its not about cost of the machine. Its there willingness to get contractors back out there. The Scag guy was a large contractor so knows the importance of sorting the contractor before the homeowner. Im kicking myself for not getting a TT from him!

All that said, I will give credit to the SZ for how much grass the thing can cut. That large job I do (there are pics of it on here with the clumps) I mowed the other day. Some of it was 12" high and thick as to the point of having to cut in circles as back n forth was just way to much. Anyway, I was able to mow the entire area in under 2.5hrs. Thats pretty much the average time even when its dry. That blew me away really!

Mickhippy
02-05-2013, 08:20 AM
Deck size has a lot to do with things. About as much as type of grass affects things.

My 60" XR-7 cuts like crap... pretty much always did. Buddy has the same mower with the 66" XR-7. He has never complained about cut quality.

I have experienced the windrows on the VX4 demo's that I had. It wasn't long grass. Just medium height grass that any other mower just fans out smooth, the VX4 just puddled in a windrow.

Im glad its not just my imagination! It is truly frustrating!

puppypaws
02-05-2013, 10:08 AM
Weve been in drought for the last few months, little growth and very dry. Had zero problems except where grey water is released. Last week we received approx 400mm of rain in 3 or 4 days (and up to 100km/h wind) and showers the last few days so basically, the grass is full of water and growing fast. Like I say, I expect problems when its damp, lush, thick and long but after seeing a Scag TT cutting the same stuff, the VX4 deck isnt as good. The TT was leaving a few clumps but not like what I get.

I havent seen another SZ on a trailer yet!

Ridin, I used to have a good JD dealer back when I had the X595 but theyve gone now and I just dont trust any dealers except for the Scag guy. Its not about cost of the machine. Its there willingness to get contractors back out there. The Scag guy was a large contractor so knows the importance of sorting the contractor before the homeowner. Im kicking myself for not getting a TT from him!

All that said, I will give credit to the SZ for how much grass the thing can cut. That large job I do (there are pics of it on here with the clumps) I mowed the other day. Some of it was 12" high and thick as to the point of having to cut in circles as back n forth was just way to much. Anyway, I was able to mow the entire area in under 2.5hrs. Thats pretty much the average time even when its dry. That blew me away really!

You will be pleased with the Velocity Plus cut, but I can promise, after owning and operating a Super Z you will find yourself feeling like you are riding and operating a tank with a TT in comparison. You will also find yourself trying to push the steering arms forward almost to the point of bending them in an attempt to make the TT cut faster. Where you are now adapted to cruising along while cutting at 12 to 13 mph (19 to 21 kph), you will now find yourself cutting at 10 to 11 mph (16 to 18 kph), and you will think this extremely slow from what you have been accustomed.

The productivity difference in 2 to 3 mph (3 to 5 kph) is tremendous, much more than the average person would ever realize, easily 20 to 25% in a days cutting on properties where speed can be utilized.

Mickhippy
02-05-2013, 03:32 PM
You will be pleased with the Velocity Plus cut, but I can promise, after owning and operating a Super Z you will find yourself feeling like you are riding and operating a tank with a TT in comparison. You will also find yourself trying to push the steering arms forward almost to the point of bending them in an attempt to make the TT cut faster. Where you are now adapted to cruising along while cutting at 12 to 13 mph (19 to 21 kph), you will now find yourself cutting at 10 to 11 mph (16 to 18 kph), and you will think this extremely slow from what you have been accustomed.

The productivity difference in 2 to 3 mph (3 to 5 kph) is tremendous, much more than the average person would ever realize, easily 20 to 25% in a days cutting on properties where speed can be utilized.

Who knows Puppy, I have this for another 3 years so Hustler will probably make more changes by then. At the amount of hours I put on it in the last year (240) I could have this thing for a long time with the long warranty on the hydros.

puppypaws
02-10-2013, 06:53 PM
Who knows Puppy, I have this for another 3 years so Hustler will probably make more changes by then. At the amount of hours I put on it in the last year (240) I could have this thing for a long time with the long warranty on the hydros.

I saw something this week that impressed me, I was cutting large thick volunteer ryegrass around the edge of my farm fields. This grass is extremely thick, moisture laden, and was the height of the front spindles holding the flex forks. This grass of which I have cut before with the 28 efi and smaller discharge opening XR-7 deck, would stall the old machine if I took more that half the deck width in one pass. The new VX4 72" deck with its larger discharge opening, and the 35 Kawasaki took the full deck width, and if the governor activated I did not notice. I understand how hard this grass is to cut, and it will kill most mowers in its tracks, yet the big Super Z went through it with very little effort, this really impressed me, actually beyond what I could believe.

Mickhippy
02-10-2013, 07:36 PM
I agree Puppy, if finish isnt really an issue (like trying to cut down 12" grass) then the machine is great. Can only expect so much!

3Bladz
02-10-2013, 08:58 PM
I had two of the vx4 60" machines One 31 and one 37. The 37 was a beast. If the grass was 8" inches or taller it cut better than anything else. The thicker the better. It had a really impressive discharge. The only reason I didn't keep them was we could not get them to cut good in normal conditions, or especially in long limp fescue the cut was unexceptable. It just blew the grass down across the front of the deck and then tried to pick it back up and cut it at the back of the deck. With the way I have the XR7 decks setup they cut exceptionally well. The only time the XR7 decks give us trouble is in rain or very heavy dew.
I would love to have the new hydros with the old deck. There is no machine that even comes close the performance of the new hydraulic system Hustler has. It just has a superbly smooth, easy to drive system.

puppypaws
02-10-2013, 10:13 PM
I agree Puppy, if finish isnt really an issue (like trying to cut down 12" grass) then the machine is great. Can only expect so much!

I will be honest, ryegrass makes a beautiful turf grass, and one that many people in our area overseed with in winter months to maintain a lush green lawn when all other grasses are dormant. The cut the 72 left in this limp, moisture laden grass looked extremely manicured, nothing left standing, and no clippings left inside the cut. I'll try to get a photo when it stops raining.

I've cut with my XR-7 and VX4 side by side, and would need to flip a coin between which looked best. I would say if the XR-7 had the same size discharge, and equal hp, there would be no difference in mowing the thick ryegrass I cut, but the way it was, by being so thick and large, the XR-7 cannot move it out the smaller discharge fast enough, which in return kills the engine power.

Patrick @ WandoPower
02-16-2013, 11:03 AM
We haven't had any issues out of New Super Z's we've sold. Seems the VX4 does require some "fine tuning", we've had a few customers complain it wasnt as "clean" as some other machine's theyve run. As far as I know we've been able to improve each situation to the point they're at least satisfied. And as stated, no one can touch Hustler for operator experience (seating pos, ride, controls etc).

Should also note we are getting really great feedback on the VX4's from a service standpoint, very little sales of spindle bearings, pulleys, deck belts etc. The new spindles are a noticeable improvement over the XR7 spindles.

Hydro service on the new Super Z is an expensive charge now, one down-side we've encountered.

TLS
02-16-2013, 01:16 PM
Good to hear Patrick.

What specifically are you doing to "fine tune" the deck?

puppypaws
02-16-2013, 01:30 PM
We haven't had any issues out of New Super Z's we've sold. Seems the VX4 does require some "fine tuning", we've had a few customers complain it wasnt as "clean" as some other machine's theyve run. As far as I know we've been able to improve each situation to the point they're at least satisfied. And as stated, no one can touch Hustler for operator experience (seating pos, ride, controls etc).

Should also note we are getting really great feedback on the VX4's from a service standpoint, very little sales of spindle bearings, pulleys, deck belts etc. The new spindles are a noticeable improvement over the XR7 spindles.

Hydro service on the new Super Z is an expensive charge now, one down-side we've encountered.

What is the charge for complete service of the HyperDrive hydraulic system?

You are 2 1/2 hrs. from me, and live in a location (Charleston, SC) that people further north would give their first newborn to reside in. Charleston is a beautiful and historic area; which produces very mild winter weather, you are fortunate to live there.

Patrick @ WandoPower
02-16-2013, 01:40 PM
Good to hear Patrick.

What specifically are you doing to "fine tune" the deck?

Nothing groundbreaking, as mentioned earlier, the higher lift blades seem to help. We've been using bagging blades as our normal stock blades for the vx4's and no one seems to mind. Definitely want to deck at a bit more rake(lower front) than other models might require. The adjustable baffle is something you just have to play with, but all the way down or middle setting seems to be popular.



What is the charge for complete service of the HyperDrive hydraulic system?

You are 2 1/2 hrs. from me, and live in a location (Charleston, SC) that people further north would give their first newborn to reside in. Charleston is a beautiful and historic area; which produces very mild winter weather, you are fortunate to live there.

Thanks, we love Charleston, I do feel fortunate to live here. Landscaping is a great business here as well. As far as Hydro service, the Hyperdrive filter is almost $70, and around 11 QT's of Mobil 1 Synthetic 15-50, its going to be around a $250 job. We dont typically do just a hydro service alone so it's hard for me to put my finger on an exact price.

Mickhippy
02-16-2013, 04:26 PM
Thanks for chiming in Patrick!
Can you give me the details (part no's, brand etc) for those blades please?

When I first got the machine, the dealer didnt check deck level and it had a heavy rake down in front. It is now as per the manual specs. Levelling helped some and gives a flatter finish. The heavy rake caused a lot more scalping and there were times I could actually see the wavy look across the lawn.
Ive tried all settings on the baffle and where I have it now works best for me. (one of the middle settings)

At the end of the day, nothing Ive done has eliminated the clumping problems. Even adding a baffle between the spindle and the discharge chute. Grass still catches but it has reduced the clumping considerably.

What I am glad to hear is that your admitting there is an issue and there are others complaining about it. What you guys need to do now is come up with a real fix. High lift blades and a tested, factory baffle are a good start. Let me know when you come up with one. I'll gladly test it for you, for free!

Heres a pic I took of the baffle just the other day. Where its clean is where the clippings hit it and fly off but, the clippings will sometimes stick (moisture,) build up and drop. Before adding the baffle, clippings would constantly catch there.
Im a realist and understand that long grass will cause issues but when it happens on regular length grass is when I get upset. I never had these problems with the XR7 deck in normal grass. Double cutting areas that shouldnt need double cutting is time consuming and eats into my profit margin.
I really wish you guys could come up with a fix for this. Design a turbo baffle or something.

Edit, Sorry Patrick, I thought you were with Hustler! Thanks for advice etc anyway!

greenology
02-21-2013, 12:16 AM
[QUOTE=Mickhippy;4666289]Weve been in drought for the last few months, little growth and very dry. Had zero problems except where grey water is released. Last week we received approx 400mm of rain in 3 or 4 days (and up to 100km/h wind) and showers the last few days so basically, the grass is full of water and growing fast. Like I say, I expect problems when its damp, lush, thick and long but after seeing a Scag TT cutting the same stuff, the VX4 deck isnt as good. The TT was leaving a few clumps but not like what I get.

I havnt had much of an issue for the past few months due to the dry period, but now after the rain and so much grass growth The windrowing is a serious problem! first time I have been able to experiance it since buying.

Looks like theres no solutions as yet Mickhippy?

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 12:36 AM
I havnt had much of an issue for the past few months due to the dry period, but now after the rain and so much grass growth The windrowing is a serious problem! first time I have been able to experiance it since buying.

Looks like theres no solutions as yet Mickhippy?

Can you take a few pics for me mate?
Ive been thinking of you actually, wondering how the machine has been going. Im sorry to hear your having the same issues. Weve had a heap of rain this week, a few showers last week and heavy rain this week with more to come. Basically, its slop out there now. Havent worked all week! I know Im going to have some major windowing next week, or when I can get back onto the lawns. Not looking forward to it!

greenology
02-21-2013, 01:42 AM
Can you take a few pics for me mate?
Ive been thinking of you actually, wondering how the machine has been going. Im sorry to hear your having the same issues. Weve had a heap of rain this week, a few showers last week and heavy rain this week with more to come. Basically, its slop out there now. Havent worked all week! I know Im going to have some major windowing next week, or when I can get back onto the lawns. Not looking forward to it!

Yea no problem, will start taking some photos next week, tomorrow day of residential mowing so no ride on. Also I will take some photos of the chute blocker which I made last yr with your advice.

So far has only been 2 weeks of windrowing causing me concern, so havnt yet had any complaints from clients but there is one client in particular Im concerned will comment soon & Its a good job which I cant afford to lose.

It appears to me like the grass is gathering up on top of the blades and then being thrown out in clumps. Im pretty sure I can see the clumps of grass being thrown out and they dont all look as though they are coming from the back end of the chute, some of the clumps seem to be coming out at the front which would indicate to me it may not all be building up at the back of the deck & may actually be building up on top of the blades.

puppypaws
02-21-2013, 06:42 AM
Yea no problem, will start taking some photos next week, tomorrow day of residential mowing so no ride on. Also I will take some photos of the chute blocker which I made last yr with your advice.

So far has only been 2 weeks of windrowing causing me concern, so havnt yet had any complaints from clients but there is one client in particular Im concerned will comment soon & Its a good job which I cant afford to lose.

It appears to me like the grass is gathering up on top of the blades and then being thrown out in clumps. Im pretty sure I can see the clumps of grass being thrown out and they dont all look as though they are coming from the back end of the chute, some of the clumps seem to be coming out at the front which would indicate to me it may not all be building up at the back of the deck & may actually be building up on top of the blades.

There is no reason for a client to realize you're having a problem, raise the deck a little and run back over the windrows to scatter them, if you lose a client because of this small problem, it's your fault, not his.

GMLC
02-21-2013, 06:48 AM
There is no reason for a client to realize you're having a problem, raise the deck a little and run back over the windrows to scatter them, if you lose a client because of this small problem, it's your fault, not his.

This seems like an easy solution but as a business owner this is a huge waste of time!!! I cant stand double cutting because I should be on my next job!!

I would deffinatley go over it again for the client but if the mower could not be fixed I would not recommend anyone buy it. I have personally owned mowers that require double cutting under various conditions and the time wasted over the long run is huge. I now try to demo each mower Im thinking of buying in the toughest conditions to avoid QOC problems.
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puppypaws
02-21-2013, 08:03 AM
This seems like an easy solution but as a business owner this is a huge waste of time!!! I cant stand double cutting because I should be on my next job!!

I would deffinatley go over it again for the client but if the mower could not be fixed I would not recommend anyone buy it. I have personally owned mowers that require double cutting under various conditions and the time wasted over the long run is huge. I now try to demo each mower Im thinking of buying in the toughest conditions to avoid QOC problems.
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A Super Z cuts so much faster than most other mowers, you can run back over the windrowed areas and still finish ahead of virtually all other machines. This severe windrowing problem more than likely only shows up to bother in heavier moisture laden grass (I've seen no windrowing with my 72, 0%). Therefore, I would not see it as a great problem to run back over these areas at top speed to scatter it; in order to keep a client satisfied.

Contrary to what some may say, there is no mower that performs perfectly in large, wet grass, some better than others yes, but to say you never need to run over certain areas for a second time to make it look good, no, not in many areas of this country, or for that fact, in the world.

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 08:34 AM
Sorry Puppy but I have to agree with GMLC on this. One or 2 small lawns yeah, quick and easy to run over it again but if you have to run over several in a day, several times a week then that all adds up. Cant double cut an entire 2-3-4+ acres.

Green now has an X1 so not the speed of a SZ. But even if he still had it, his properties are too rough to use the SZ's speed.

My old JD X595, the 04 SZ with the mod'ed deck and the XR7 decks all disperse damp clippings better than this VX4 deck.
As Ive said before, for me, it doesnt even have to be real long and or really damp. There are pics of a park next to a lake that the grass was short and dry.

GMLC
02-21-2013, 08:35 AM
I have talked with many LCO's over the years that honestly thought double cutting was the norm. All of last season I had to double cut less than 5 times. And I cut in the rain! I have owned and demoed many brands over the years. There are 3-4 decks that will almost eliminate the need to double cut. Of corse if your cutting 12" of grass this doesnt apply. But I have done 5-6" wet grass without problems.
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GMLC
02-21-2013, 08:41 AM
This seems like an easy solution but as a business owner this is a huge waste of time!!! I cant stand double cutting because I should be on my next job!!

I would deffinatley go over it again for the client but if the mower could not be fixed I would not recommend anyone buy it. I have personally owned mowers that require double cutting under various conditions and the time wasted over the long run is huge. I now try to demo each mower Im thinking of buying in the toughest conditions to avoid QOC problems.
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Just to add to this. Not only is it a waste of time its also a waste of fuel. We all know where the gas prices are!!!
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puppypaws
02-21-2013, 09:34 AM
Sorry Puppy but I have to agree with GMLC on this. One or 2 small lawns yeah, quick and easy to run over it again but if you have to run over several in a day, several times a week then that all adds up. Cant double cut an entire 2-3-4+ acres.

Green now has an X1 so not the speed of a SZ. But even if he still had it, his properties are too rough to use the SZ's speed.

My old JD X595, the 04 SZ with the mod'ed deck and the XR7 decks all disperse damp clippings better than this VX4 deck.
As Ive said before, for me, it doesnt even have to be real long and or really damp. There are pics of a park next to a lake that the grass was short and dry.

I would agree, if double cutting is needed everywhere, there would be a problem, but to keep a customer satisfied, double cutting a certain area occasionally may be understood.


I can't relate to this for the fact there are so many different mowing situations, and I am fortunate to live in an area of the country where stiff blade, dry southern grasses are prevalent, this in itself changes the entire cutting scenario. Except for early spring, we aren't forced to deal with heavy moisture laden grass (for the most part), and this is really where the problem you are seeing arises.

mtmower
02-21-2013, 09:57 AM
I agree with GMLC. No arguing that double cutting is a huge waste regardless of speed and once you have used a ZTR with the speed of a SZ and go to anything slower, even 1-2 mph slower, it feels like your push mowing... twice. In no way is it the home owners problem unless they are insistent on over watering and/or over fertilizing. I actually spent approx 20k and got my applicators license in order to take control of some of this for this very reason (don't know if I recommend this to anyone, but that's another story). If this is the case charge them more or let another LCO have a chance at it.

From my experience with different machines and having cut commercially in Ohio and Montana, I agree with Puppy that there is no perfect machine out there for any and all areas. My old standard deck SZ did pretty well for both my MT and OH grasses but wasn't perfect. The XR7, not so good, but got better with baffles and tweaking. My X Factor presents a different set of problems with crop circles, lack of vaccum and/or deck turbulence that won't stand up my fine grasses, and rougher ride for the deck which causes me to slow down not being able to use it to its full potential. The X Factor is as good as my standard as far as dispersing without wind rowing much. It still happens. I hate double cutting with a passion, but at almost once every day you can catch me cutting with my XR7 at speed and then double cutting with my X Factor one notch up to disperse the windrow left by the XR7 and some of my properties are big (70-80k sqft). Cutting once with my X will sometimes leave windrows, which I believe is due to the deck shooting the clippings down instead of straight out, but the stingers/straglers and crop circles are the main problem. I understand from GMLC the new updates coming out on the X may be partly to address the clipping dispersal which a step forward.

TLS
02-21-2013, 10:23 AM
I think TORO was onto something with their adjustable front baffle.

This needs to be looked at further and other manufacturers need to look into this.

The VX4 windrow is caused by the boxed in rear section of the discharge side. If they simply get rid of this boxed in area and make it a sharp edge like every other deck it'll be fine. They also need a turbo baffle.
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mtmower
02-21-2013, 10:37 AM
I think TORO was onto something with their adjustable front baffle.

This needs to be looked at further and other manufacturers need to look into this.

The VX4 windrow is caused by the boxed in rear section of the discharge side. If they simply get rid of this boxed in area and make it a sharp edge like every other deck it'll be fine. They also need a turbo baffle.
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I haven't touched the VX4 yet but just looking at pics the X looks similar to me with the boxed area at the discharge with the exception of the turbo baffle. I really thought Mic was on to something when he started making his own turbo baffle install. Sorry to hear it hasn't fixed the problem entirely.

GMLC
02-21-2013, 11:42 AM
Mtmower,

I cant help but think you were part of the reason for the X-Factor enhancements!! That and an almost nation wide drought that brought out unique conditions.

Funny thing is late last August I was having turbulance problems on dry fine fescue. Also no lift. So I switched to my Velocity deck with the same exact results. As soon as the fine fescue got some moisture back into it both decks were cured. I also noticed LS was full of cut quality issue threads across the board.
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Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 11:47 AM
Mtmower,

I cant help but think you were part of the reason for the X-Factor enhancements!! That and an almost nation wide drought that brought out unique conditions.

Funny thing is late last August I was having turbulance problems on dry fine fescue. Also no lift. So I switched to my Velocity deck with the same exact results. As soon as the fine fescue got some moisture back into it both decks were cured. I also noticed LS was full of cut quality issue threads across the board.
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Same here GMLC. I was having QOC issues with my MOD deck on fine/limp grasses and posted on here about it several times, but as soon as the least bit of moisture came down, it cleared right up and I ended up being even more impressed by the MOD deck than I was by the std version.

GMLC
02-21-2013, 12:01 PM
Same here GMLC. I was having QOC issues with my MOD deck on fine/limp grasses and posted on here about it several times, but as soon as the least bit of moisture came down, it cleared right up and I ended up being even more impressed by the MOD deck than I was by the std version.

Ridin' I remember we were talking about our issues around the same time. I have a feeling we mow similar grasses. Im not sure but I think Montana is a lot less humid which could have really enhanced the problem conditions?
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mtmower
02-21-2013, 01:05 PM
Ridin' I remember we were talking about our issues around the same time. I have a feeling we mow similar grasses. Im not sure but I think Montana is a lot less humid which could have really enhanced the problem conditions?
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Same here GMLC. I was having QOC issues with my MOD deck on fine/limp grasses and posted on here about it several times, but as soon as the least bit of moisture came down, it cleared right up and I ended up being even more impressed by the MOD deck than I was by the std version.

Mtmower,

I cant help but think you were part of the reason for the X-Factor enhancements!! That and an almost nation wide drought that brought out unique conditions.

Funny thing is late last August I was having turbulance problems on dry fine fescue. Also no lift. So I switched to my Velocity deck with the same exact results. As soon as the fine fescue got some moisture back into it both decks were cured. I also noticed LS was full of cut quality issue threads across the board.
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RJ and GMLC, June was are wettest on record. Upward of almost 8" I believe. Got pretty dry after that but not as hot as usual. Terrible weather year. Took a lot of the enjoyment out of my day. We have little humidity here but 99% of my accounts are irrigated and I control the watering on most. Our soil REALLY varies here. From sand (wear through my lift before I wear them down from sharpening) to clay that never dries out. Plus lots of wooded areas which = shade. Most of my accounts I water 4xs a week in normal conditions at around 35 min. per station of rotating heads. As I've said, I also started doing the fert/spray now on most as well about three years ago to yet control my conditions more and I'm down to 75% release two times a year and up to three (winterizer) on a few and turf still is growing at a rate of about 4" per seven days. One of my toughest accounts is on a lake, shaded, and terrible clay. I'm down to watering 10-15 min 4xs a week and still tacking mud while having bad stinger/skippers so moisture is not my main problem even though I know it plays a significant role in things. No lie, the weather had me thinking of other careers. Now with literally only three days of plowing for the second year in a row, I'm sucking wind, and I'm thinking hard while looking at my CC debt.

My hats off to Gravely as a company. Came out here to BFE three times counting my demo. The other two times to get info and try fixes on my unit. Yet to deal with a company this proactive.

I have to say I've had little to no problem with lift on my XR7 regardless of conditions. The clipping disbursement and lack of power due to my engine choice are it's weakest links. I would still like to demo a VX4 yet.

Sorry if I'm taking this thread off subject too far.

GMLC
02-21-2013, 01:14 PM
RJ and GMLC, June was are wettest on record. Upward of almost 8" I believe. Got pretty dry after that but not as hot as usual. Terrible weather year. Took a lot of the enjoyment out of my day. We have little humidity here but 99% of my accounts are irrigated and I control the watering on most. Our soil REALLY varies here. From sand (wear through my lift before I wear them down from sharpening) to clay that never dries out. Plus lots of wooded areas which = shade. Most of my accounts I water 4xs a week in normal conditions at around 35 min. per station of rotating heads. As I've said, I also started doing the fert/spray now on most as well about three years ago to yet control my conditions more and I'm down to 75% release two times a year and up to three (winterizer) on a few and turf still is growing at a rate of about 4" per seven days. One of my toughest accounts is on a lake, shaded, and terrible clay. I'm down to watering 10-15 min 4xs a week and still tacking mud while having bad stinger/skippers so moisture is not my main problem even though I know it plays a significant role in things. No lie, the weather had me thinking of other careers. Now with literally only three days of plowing for the second year in a row, I'm sucking wind, and I'm thinking hard while looking at my CC debt.

My hats off to Gravely as a company. Came out here to BFE three times counting my demo. The other two times to get info and try fixes on my unit. Yet to deal with a company this proactive.

I have to say I've had little to no problem with lift on my XR7 regardless of conditions. The clipping disbursement and lack of power due to my engine choice are it's weakest links. I would still like to demo a VX4 yet.

Sorry if I'm taking this thread off subject too far.

I know how you feel. Last year I plowed three times and so far only five times this year. It has really changed my business plan and outlook for my business. Snow and ice management use to be half my business. Now its not to be counted on for income. Im not big enough or have the capital to take on large commercial lots that pay whether it snows or not. But from what I hear those guys loose money on tough winters but make a ton on years like we have had recently.

Oh! And I hope Gravely brings you the new deck to try out...hint hint....Gravely.
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greenology
02-21-2013, 04:17 PM
There is no reason for a client to realize you're having a problem, raise the deck a little and run back over the windrows to scatter them, if you lose a client because of this small problem, it's your fault, not his.

hmm, you seem to like argueing...

Its just not an option to double cut the entire job, I do double cut occasionally in the worst sections but even double cutting still throws out some more clumps! :clapping:

As far as rasing the height, that is a cause for complaint in itself! Im already cutting this lawn higher than normal because of the clumping.. Any higher and the client will complain about the height. So he should, im not winging about my client!

Im not saying if I lose the job it would be the clients fault, it would be the fault of the VX4. If I was the client paying $240 every week to have my lawns cut I wouldnt want to be looking out my windows at dried up clumps of grass. The reason I know he may complain is his old contractor used to leave clumps of grass & he mentioned it to me in the beginning, so I have always made a point of avoiding it. The old mower used to do a very nice job of dispursing the grass evenly.

Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 04:37 PM
Ridin' I remember we were talking about our issues around the same time. I have a feeling we mow similar grasses. Im not sure but I think Montana is a lot less humid which could have really enhanced the problem conditions?
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Where I'm at in MI, I think I am mowing very similar turf to you (and even to mtmower in some places from the sounds of it). Most of the lawns here are mixes of KBG, fine and tall fescue, perrenial rye and a lot of weeds in most of them:laugh:

GMLC
02-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Where I'm at in MI, I think I am mowing very similar turf to you (and even to mtmower in some places from the sounds of it). Most of the lawns here are mixes of KBG, fine and tall fescue, perrenial rye and a lot of weeds in most of them:laugh:

Exactly the same mix here:)
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Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
It was so dry here last summer that even the buckhorn plantain, which usually takes over uncared for lawns in the dry spells, didn't do well. I hope this year is a lot better. (For the rain/grass I mean LOL).

GMLC
02-21-2013, 04:50 PM
Funny thing is we had rain almost every week in april and may. Then almost no rain until september! And another mild winter. If it wasnt for the recent 30 inches we would of had hardly any snow.
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Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 04:53 PM
We've had no where near that amount of snow. One or two 3" falls, and one at maybe 5-6". Otherwise a bunch of 1.5" or less falls and dustings. Still, the retention basin behind us is pretty full already which is a good sign. As long as we don't go all summer without rain again, I think we'll be alright here.

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 05:50 PM
I would agree, if double cutting is needed everywhere, there would be a problem, but to keep a customer satisfied, double cutting a certain area occasionally may be understood.


I can't relate to this for the fact there are so many different mowing situations, and I am fortunate to live in an area of the country where stiff blade, dry southern grasses are prevalent, this in itself changes the entire cutting scenario. Except for early spring, we aren't forced to deal with heavy moisture laden grass (for the most part), and this is really where the problem you are seeing arises.

Most our grass types like to be kept around the 2" height. On larger acreage I raise that height to 3" toward the end of the season.
Trouble starts when we miss a week due to rain (like this week.) If we dont keep the normal height then it gets out of control. Say normal height 2", miss a week raise deck to 2.5". That becomes the normal height. But we're bound to miss another week so raise the deck to 3". Thats fine if at the end of the season when the grass slows down but people complain if its too early. Raising the deck wont fix the clumping either as even on weekly cutting the grass will be a few inches long. Long enough to get caught up.

Im sure the baffle I made has helped a lot but not completely. I wish Hustler could come up with one. Ive already started the design process but every time I weld something on it means more sanding and painting with miss matched paint. They wouldnt even send me a can of paint! Thats rough I reckon!

Like MTMower said, (and I admit I didnt believe it at first) I think boxing the deck at the discharge hasnt helped, maybe the way the blades are lined up and the gap between the blades and the deck leading edge as well. The clumping for me only happens when clippings come out the entire width of the chute, when they come off the front there is no problem.

Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 06:01 PM
Most our grass types like to be kept around the 2" height. On larger acreage I raise that height to 3" toward the end of the season.
Trouble starts when we miss a week due to rain (like this week.) If we dont keep the normal height then it gets out of control. Say normal height 2", miss a week raise deck to 2.5". That becomes the normal height. But we're bound to miss another week so raise the deck to 3". Thats fine if at the end of the season when the grass slows down but people complain if its too early. Raising the deck wont fix the clumping either as even on weekly cutting the grass will be a few inches long. Long enough to get caught up.

Im sure the baffle I made has helped a lot but not completely. I wish Hustler could come up with one. Ive already started the design process but every time I weld something on it means more sanding and painting with miss matched paint. They wouldnt even send me a can of paint! Thats rough I reckon!

Like MTMower said, (and I admit I didnt believe it at first) I think boxing the deck at the discharge hasnt helped, maybe the way the blades are lined up and the gap between the blades and the deck leading edge as well. The clumping for me only happens when clippings come out the entire width of the chute, when they come off the front there is no problem.

That's what I think the problem really is right there and I was going to post that when I got back home today, but you beat me to it.

If you consider that the VX4 is very similar to the V+ and 7 Iron in overall design, but that the blades on the VX4 are set to the rear much more than the other two are, it must be coming into play somehow.

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 06:22 PM
That's what I think the problem really is right there and I was going to post that when I got back home today, but you beat me to it.

If you consider that the VX4 is very similar to the V+ and 7 Iron in overall design, but that the blades on the VX4 are set to the rear much more than the other two are, it must be coming into play somehow.

Heres the scag v's vx4 pic I did up. Seems like the spindles are pretty much the same, its the difference between the discharge blade and the front skirt that different. The gap on the Scag is wider giving room for the clippings to get past the blade. Maybe the clippings are getting caught up on the vx4 between the blade and the deck???

Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Mmmm......
I thought the gap was much wider at the front on the VX4 than on the V+. The gap on the 7 Iron is closer than it is on the VX4 for sure, so I don't think it's a matter of the clippings not getting past each blade easy enough. Wish I could help you mate.

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 06:34 PM
Mmmm......
I thought the gap was much wider at the front on the VX4 than on the V+. The gap on the 7 Iron is closer than it is on the VX4 for sure, so I don't think it's a matter of the clippings not getting past each blade easy enough. Wish I could help you mate.

To be honest, I thought the gap was wider as well. Im at a loss myself!:cry:

GMLC
02-21-2013, 06:49 PM
And people argue with me when I say how much R&D is needed to build a deck that cuts well...these large companies have all the resources and still haven't perfected it!!!
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Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 07:00 PM
To be honest, I thought the gap was wider as well. Im at a loss myself!:cry:

Hey Mick,

maybe you need to cut a discharge chute at the left rear side so that the clippings from the left blade get shot out on rear at that side and will cut down on the amount coming out on the right.:laugh::drinkup:

Mickhippy
02-21-2013, 07:04 PM
I'll just cut the entire rear quarter of the deck out! Health n safety go go F 'emselves! lol

Ridin' Green
02-21-2013, 07:54 PM
That'd look pretty wild on video wouldn't it? Grass shooting out both sides at high speed.:eek:

mtmower
02-21-2013, 09:47 PM
I'll just cut the entire rear quarter of the deck out! Health n safety go go F 'emselves! lol

There goes your lift!! Why not mount a pulley driven blower, like for a bagger, sucking air from outside and pushing into the new left side opening of the deck. Forcing the clippings out, like a turbo charger or blower for the deck!:rolleyes: Shoot if it does clump it'll be in the neighbors yard! Problem solved.:waving:

TLS
02-22-2013, 05:53 AM
In all seriousness. It really amazes me that manufacturers haven't really produced a great cutting deck for our northern grasses. Who are they giving their prototypes to? Big crews? I do know they do a LOT of testing in Florida. Any deck cuts stiff, thick blades southern grass just fine. It's the limp thin northern grass that's the problem.
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dc33
02-22-2013, 08:24 AM
And people argue with me when I say how much R&D is needed to build a deck that cuts well...these large companies have all the resources and still haven't perfected it!!!
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this seems to be a HUGE Hustler problem. The last 3 decks they have released all have this same problem and have had cut quality issues. Its almost as if they just release a deck and wait and see how it does THEN works out a fix to any problem. Saldy mowing some northern grass on their own (or just giving a few dozen to northern small compaines) would expose this problem right off the bat and problualy allow them to slove this problem before it even exists.

I still have my xr7 with almost 5,000 hours on it, I waited for them to fix that deck before I bought it, and refused to buy the vr4 assuming the same issues would come up, they did. To be honest, after 10+ years of owning Hustlers, Im switching to John Deere. Hustler cant even get the very most basic thing done time after time after time :(

greenology
02-27-2013, 04:44 AM
266698

This shows a little clumping, the grass was very dry, being cut late after a hot day. Also wasnt overly long (6days since cut)

Its not too bad but the clumping is evident, when the grass is slightly damp & a little longer, thats when it becomes a problem. Ill take some more next time I cut this property.

Will get some more photos from other properties soon.

Mickhippy
02-27-2013, 05:42 AM
Thanks mate and yep, thats the sort of thing Ive been talking about. Im sorry its happening to you but also glad someone else is willing to show up the problem. A pic tells a thousand words and I would love to see more.

TLS
02-27-2013, 06:09 AM
That is a great picture of it. This is exactly the issue I was having. Clumping where it really shouldn't.
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GMLC
02-27-2013, 06:31 AM
Thanks for the pic. What kind of grass is that?
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greenology
02-27-2013, 09:35 PM
Thanks mate and yep, thats the sort of thing Ive been talking about. Im sorry its happening to you but also glad someone else is willing to show up the problem. A pic tells a thousand words and I would love to see more.

I have taken some more today, will put some up soon when I resize them.

Its more of a problem than I had expected, I've now had 2 complaints about it. They are good clients and I dont think ill lose them, but thats provided I can fix the issue.

greenology
02-27-2013, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the pic. What kind of grass is that?
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No worries for the pic, glad its a benefit for others also. The grass is kikuya

greenology
02-27-2013, 10:03 PM
a pic tells a thousand words and i would love to see more.

266723

266724

266725

266726

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266728

Ridin' Green
02-27-2013, 10:06 PM
Man bro, that really looks pretty bad for no longer than the grass is. Unless it was wet that plain sucks.

weeze
02-27-2013, 10:11 PM
yeah that's ugly. i cut grass almost twice as tall as that with my deere and it doesn't do that. that one pic the grass looks wet though.

have you guys tried using oregon G6 blades on the hustler decks? just wondering if that would help some.

that's sad to see really. i mean hustler has these awesome indrustrial pumps and everything but if the cut is that bad then it's all for nothing. if they ever get it figured out they could make a diesel super z and it would be the best mower ever made since it would last forever pretty much. if they can't get the deck to cut right though then all of the rest of it is meaningless.

Ridin' Green
02-27-2013, 10:13 PM
yeah that's ugly. i cut grass twice as tall as that with my deere and it doesn't do that.

have you guys tried using oregon G6 blades on the hustler decks? just wondering if that would help some.

IIRC, mickhippy has tried them without any real improvement.

greenology
02-27-2013, 10:14 PM
Man bro, that really looks pretty bad for no longer than the grass is. Unless it was wet that plain sucks.

The owner of this property was home and wasnt pleased about the "grass lumps" he says are left behind. Grass wasnt wet, hasnt rained here for 4-5 days and I was cutting it late morning.

Ive cut this lawn for close to 4 yrs and never had an issue with clumping, always had nice comments from the cut quality.

TLS
02-28-2013, 06:16 AM
Excell Industries... Hustler... Are you currently addressing this?
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GMLC
02-28-2013, 06:22 AM
Wow, Im sorry greenology. Thats a lot of double cutting your going to have to do. Especially on those large properties.
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Mickhippy
02-28-2013, 08:07 AM
Thanks again Green and yeah, thats the cr@p Ive been dealing with! Awesome isnt it...... :hammerhead:

Ridin' Green
02-28-2013, 11:51 AM
Hey mick, I feel for you guys down there. That is just a bunch of BS plain and simple. Does the more you cut it break it down further forming a gooey mess? I guess it's sorta like a cow chewing its cud eh?:realmad::wall

Ridin' Green
02-28-2013, 11:59 AM
Mick-
I don't remember if we ever talked about this or not anywhere in the past, but have you ever tried a set of true mulcher blades- you know, with the wavy front edge and a little less lift.

I started using them last year for full time cutting, and to be honest, I can cut as fast with them as with the OEM high lifts, and I have about 1/3 the amount of clippings coming out the chute. They really minimize the size of the clippings, and that is not with my MOD closed off at all, just wide open discharging. It may help reduce the clumping issue if the clippings have too hard a time collecting together in a wad before dropping off like they have been doing. Just a thought. Prolly not a good one, but I do have them (thoughts that is) from time to time.:dancing:

TLS
02-28-2013, 01:45 PM
You never know.

I used a set of wavy mulchers on my old 60" Lazer (1st gen Ultra Cut) and it left behind a terrible cut. No where near enough lift to suck up the grass. And that was with a tightly baffled deck. I can't see how they'd produce enough lift at all to work on a very open VX4.

I really think this clumping is caused by the rear portion of the discharge opening. It's a shame, because this deck is built and designed so strong and perfect.
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Ridin' Green
02-28-2013, 01:55 PM
I guess it all depends on how much lift they have, and how much height there is to the top of the inner wave, and finally the type of grass you cut. I can cut just as fast on my 950 with them as I can with high lifts in all but the worst conditions. They leave an excellent QOC behind too.

I just figured they may be worth investigating since Mick cuts a lot of stiffer type southern grasses. They may do exactly what he needs since they still chop up and blow part of the clippings straight down below the blades, and the rest gets cut up fine and blown out the chute, even in an open deck.