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Jaynen
02-13-2012, 08:25 AM
Hello
I got this riding lawn tractor and I am having trouble getting it to start. The problem is it cranks but very slow like the battery is weak and doesnt have enough power to spin the engine fast to get it started. The engine is a briggs 26 hp. There is no load on the engine, the deck is off, and the engine spins easy. I could rope start it no problem. I tested it with 3 different batteries all I know were good and I get the same result every time. I even bypassed all the electrical and hooked the battery up directly to the starter with the same results. I took apart the starter and cleaned it up and made sure all the connections were solid and the brushes where good. Is it possible for a starter to go weak? Is there any tests I can do on the starter? Thanks for any help.

pugs
02-13-2012, 11:27 AM
Maybe something wrong with the compression release of the engine or the valve adjustment. Try pulling the spark plugs out and cranking the engine over...if it spins good and fast then the starter is probably ok. Check your valve adjustments.

Patriot Services
02-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Replace the starter. It sounds like worn out windings. The fact you rope start it rules out valve adjustment. Napa should be able to bench test its amp draw.
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jp@absolute
02-13-2012, 03:29 PM
Most auto parts stores can bench test starters for you. I would have to agree with Patriot it sounds like the starter is week, and the windings maybe wore.

pugs
02-13-2012, 04:40 PM
Did you actually rope start it? "I could rope start it no problem" doesnt mean he actually did it...especially considering I have not seen a 26HP Briggs with a pull start or even an easy way to wrap a rope onto it and pull.

Jaynen
02-14-2012, 08:19 AM
No I didn't actually rope start it. I can spin it by hand very easily, the only resistance is the compression which feels good. The starter should be able to spin it no problem but doesn't. I gonna work more on testing the starter before trying the other suggestions. I'll let you guys know what happends. Thanks for the suggestions!

Jaynen
02-16-2012, 05:52 PM
Well I brought the starter down to a starter and alternator place and got them to test the starter. He said it was fine and showed me it spinning. I said I wanted it tested under a load and gave him the specs but he insisted that the starter was fine. He opened it up and said everything checked out. So I guess I am gonna assume the starter is okay. Hes been in business for quite a few years so I guess I gotta trust him.

Patriot Services
02-16-2012, 05:57 PM
Since you can turn the engine over by hand and can put power directly to the starter, I'm stumped. Pull the plugs and see if it spins over. A free spin bench test doesn't convince me.:usflag:

Jaynen
02-16-2012, 07:27 PM
Okay I will try some things tommorow or the next day and report back.
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PK Mows
02-17-2012, 01:00 AM
I'm assuming that's an Intek? If so, adjust the valves. They have to be adjusted with the piston at 1/4" past TDC and lashed at .004". Very, very common issue and they should be adjusted every 100 hours for best results. My repair shop, we included it with an annual service.

The compression release is dependent on proper valve lash on these engines, it's just a slight bump on the cam profile that pops a valve open a little at starting speeds. I can pm you a link to an article I wrote describing the process if you need it. The Briggs public site has directions too, under valve replacement or valve maintenance or something like that.

Jaynen
02-17-2012, 02:51 PM
Yah if you could provide me with that information that would be great. I will check out the briggs site to.

As for the engine I pulled the plugs and gave it another test spin. It spins faster now. Not extremely fast though, like if you were to give it a half assed pull on rope pull engine.

Jaynen
02-17-2012, 06:18 PM
Okay pulled the valve covers and measured the gaps. Everything checks out to spec. 2 of the valves were dead on and the other 2 valves were .001 off but within the tolerance.

StihlMechanic
02-17-2012, 10:19 PM
I'm assuming that's an Intek? If so, adjust the valves. They have to be adjusted with the piston at 1/4" past TDC and lashed at .004". Very, very common issue and they should be adjusted every 100 hours for best results. My repair shop, we included it with an annual service.

The compression release is dependent on proper valve lash on these engines, it's just a slight bump on the cam profile that pops a valve open a little at starting speeds. I can pm you a link to an article I wrote describing the process if you need it. The Briggs public site has directions too, under valve replacement or valve maintenance or something like that.

what he said. most common mistake shade tree mechanics make is a new battery or starter. Very cheap fix and very common problem with the BS Inteks.

Patriot Services
02-17-2012, 10:31 PM
Refer to post #12. He already checked the lash and it was spot on.:usflag:

StihlMechanic
02-17-2012, 11:48 PM
Doubtful he checked it with the piston 1/4 inch down past TDC.

Jaynen
02-19-2012, 04:35 PM
I used a caliper through the spark plug hole to get the 1/4 inch. Bought a new starter gonna try that.

PK Mows
02-20-2012, 03:41 AM
You really can't check the lash accurately, you just have to adjust it. Take the plug out of each cylinder and with the valve covers off, rotate the engine until the intake valve opens and then closes. When the piston starts coming up and is near the top of its travel, insert a wooden dowel into the cylinder and rock the flywheel back and forth until you find the highest point of the piston's travel. Then mark your dowel to a point on the head. Then remove the dowel, mark it 1/4" above the first mark, re-insert and turn the flywheel forwards until the second mark lines up with the reference point you used on the head. Then loosen the lock screws, loosen the retaining nuts, one at a time remove the pushrods and roll them on a flat surface to check for straightness, and put them back exactly the way they came out.

Then put your feeler gauge between the valve and rocker and finger tighten the retaining nut back down until the feeler gauge is snug and takes a little effort to pull out. Then, with the feeler gauge still in place, tighten the lock screw. You have to repeat exactly on the other cylinder.

It takes most people 3 or 4 times to get it right until they've done a couple dozen. You may very well need a new starter or have another issue, but I've probably had this issue come into my shop a couple thousand times and I bet I haven't replaced more than a couple dozen starters for it. When a starter is called for, generally what happened is the lash is not adjusted regularly and this puts too much strain on the wiring and starter. So you have to adjust, not check, valve lash on Inteks at least every 100 hours. I couldn't begin to say how many times other shops have replaced batteries and starters on Inteks, the engine starts okay for a little while and then they ended up at my shop complaining about the last guy. All because they didn't resolve the real trouble.

all ferris
02-20-2012, 02:06 PM
Always start with the simple stuff. Did you check your battery cables and grounds? How is the starter solenoid?

Valk
02-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Always start with the simple stuff. Did you check your battery cables and grounds? How is the starter solenoid?

Good point. I took my mower to our local battery shop and upon their detailed analysis I needed a new ground cable from the engine to the battery. Yup, a real simple fix for quite a few symptoms.

Patriot Services
03-03-2012, 09:29 AM
So, any progress?:usflag:

Jaynen
03-06-2012, 03:21 PM
Okay heres where I am at. Got a new starter and put it in. Engines spins way better, so good in fact that the problem of the valve adjustment was clear as day. So i went and double checked the valves and it turns out I was at the wrong TDC. I found the right TDC and the valves were way out, but just on the one cylinder. The other cylinder was still spot on. So I set the valves and the engine spins great now. Now the problem is I got no fuel in the cylinder. The fuel smells boarder line for going bad. I have no idea how long its been since it ran.

Patriot Services
03-06-2012, 03:31 PM
So it runs with a squirt of gas in the carb?
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Jaynen
03-06-2012, 03:49 PM
I can go give that a try now. I was also looking at the spark. Its pretty weak. I put the spark plugs in another machine and there was a way better spark there. Both plugs do have spark, just seems weak.

Jaynen
03-06-2012, 05:24 PM
I didnt start or even sputter with the gas in the carb.

Patriot Services
03-06-2012, 05:44 PM
Now it sounds like an ignition problem. That thing is a nightmare.
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Jaynen
03-06-2012, 05:58 PM
lol, believe it or not I have had worse.

Jaynen
03-07-2012, 11:32 AM
Well I pulled the carb and checked all the holes. Everything was super clean but I noticed the o-ring on top of that solenoid thing in the float bowl was only sealing half the ring. So I put I new ring on and put it back on the engine and she fired right up! I dont know if the o-ring fixed it and it still has orange spark but the engine purrs really nice. Thanks to everyone that took the time to read and help me out on this one!