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View Full Version : Rental company needs advice on Skid Steer purchases


J2Rentals
02-14-2012, 07:00 PM
Hello and thank you for reading my post.

I am not sure on the rules on this forum so I will try not to say anything that might come across as advertising my company.

I own a small trailer rental company in Calgary, AB, Canada and am about to add 2 skid steers to my fleet. As the type of rental customer I would be primarily renting to would be land scappers, snow removal companies, and small construction companies (mostly the people who read this forum) I thought I would ask you guys what units and features you want on rental units.. and hopefully you can help me chose the best units to purchase. Keep in mind I need ones that can stand up to abuse and are reasonably cheap to maintain.

The brands I have it down to are Cat and Bobcat. I don't want to say anything to offend any other brands but after much reasearch i have already ruled out all the other brands. (although I Might consider a John Deere or New holland (the new holland dealer is good, the local case dealer is terrible)

I will be buying brand new (leaseing actually) and will have the full warranty on these units as well. I think I would like to go with 1 wheeled machine and one tracked machine, what are your thoughts?

SO far I am thinking:

Bobcat
S185 or S175
T190

Cat
226 236 or 242
247 257 259

The Cat track loaders are a bit heavey and I have heard many bad things about the 247 and 257 but maybe that is older units.

The only other thing I can add is that I want to stay Under 8000lbs operating weight on the tracked machine due to insurance and weights on my trailers.

I really appreciate any advise / help you can add!

Thanks Again!!!

bobcat_ron
02-14-2012, 09:02 PM
Cat is an awesome choice, our Cat Rentals keeps their skid steers to well over 3000 hours and they keep going. The Bobcat dealer here cycles them out after 1000 or less hours, they really get beat on.
If I had to buy skidsteers to rent out, I would buy Takeuchi track loaders and Cat rubber tired skid steers.
A Cat 236B2 is an awesome machine to run, lots of power and balance and a 259B3 would compliment it nicely.
The new 259B3's are pretty amazing from what I have learned and hopefully they can make up for the grief the 257's caused for that sized track loader.
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Dirtman2007
02-14-2012, 10:14 PM
Cat is an awesome choice, our Cat Rentals keeps their skid steers to well over 3000 hours and they keep going. The Bobcat dealer here cycles them out after 1000 or less hours, they really get beat on.
If I had to buy skidsteers to rent out, I would buy Takeuchi track loaders and Cat rubber tired skid steers.
A Cat 236B2 is an awesome machine to run, lots of power and balance and a 259B3 would compliment it nicely.
The new 259B3's are pretty amazing from what I have learned and hopefully they can make up for the grief the 257's caused for that sized track loader.
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my sales guy said that takeuchi was coming out with a wheel machine. that should be interesting.

bobcat_ron
02-14-2012, 10:17 PM
my sales guy said that takeuchi was coming out with a wheel machine. that should be interesting.


I've heard that too, but that was 2 years ago and still nothing. At least ASV and Kubota came through with their promises to have a skid steer to compete with everyone else.
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Digdeep
02-14-2012, 10:20 PM
my sales guy said that takeuchi was coming out with a wheel machine. that should be interesting.

Takeuchi did brand a few Toyota skids in Italy a few years ago, but I never heard what happened after that. Maybe they'll time the release to match Kubota's launch :)

bobcat_ron
02-14-2012, 10:22 PM
I want to see a Hitachi skid steer please.
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J2Rentals
02-14-2012, 10:34 PM
I can't go with the Takeuchi because the dealer here just dropped the line... So there is no dealer here now.

Any other suggestions?

bobcat_ron
02-14-2012, 10:41 PM
Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat.
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J2Rentals
02-14-2012, 10:52 PM
Hahaha. The only reason I am hesitant on the 259 is because it weighs 8700lbs... My low boy flat deck is only rated for 9500lbs of cargo and my highboy is only 11000lbs of cargo. That is just cutting it too close by the time you put extra attachments on the trailer too. Should I even consider a 247, it is exactly what I want but the undercarriage really scares me, even with a 3 year warranty.

bobcat_ron
02-14-2012, 10:57 PM
The 247 is a bit weak, 114" of dump height really hurts for loading trucks and 1400 lbs ROC doesn't get you much, customers might not want it back. 119" of dump height is perfect with 1900 lbs ROC is a big step and a big money maker.
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J2Rentals
02-14-2012, 11:13 PM
That is very true, if you look on cats site it is advertising the 50 percent roc instead of the 35, thank you for pointing that out. The specs on the t190 make it look like the perfect machine but after reading all the posts on this site for the last few weeks no one seems to like the t190. Any thoughts on the new holland tracked machines? Maybe the c175, it is only 7500 lbs with a 2200lbs roc?

stuvecorp
02-14-2012, 11:31 PM
If TK is out check the Case skids/CTL's.

J2Rentals
02-14-2012, 11:34 PM
The case dealers up here are all one company and have a terrible reputation, I will look but I need good service from a dealership for warranty. I will try and find another Tk dealer.

stuvecorp
02-14-2012, 11:41 PM
The case dealers up here are all one company and have a terrible reputation, I will look but I need good service from a dealership for warranty. I will try and find another Tk dealer.

Do the Case dealers own the ag Case dealerships? I have bought two of my last machines from ag dealers but go to the construction dealer for service. That may be an option for you.

I prefer Case but the NH's are basically the same so that can be a good option too.

minimax
02-15-2012, 12:04 AM
In a under 8000 lb CTL you could look at a deere ct315,a very simple machine and should be petty tough for a rental machine.They also make wheeled ones the same size.I would keep what ever brand machines you get bare bones so there is less stuff to break,and easier to learn.A deere 323d CTL is a great machine to but is 8550 lbs.I also think I would stay with a radial lift type machine.

minimax

westcoh
02-15-2012, 12:06 AM
I'd vote for Bobcat. The Bobcat dealership here has some T300's they rent out with over 3,000 hours on them and going strong. I've had very little trouble with mine, and my older machine has over 4,000 hours on it now.

Personally I wouldn't rent a cat skid-steer, unless it was a last resort, simply because I have no experience running the Cat pattern joysticks.

ksss
02-15-2012, 01:21 AM
CAT is a poor choice to rent. This is why. The smaller pilot machines are ISO only so you are limiting who will run the machine. Your also going to compete against CAT Rental for those that do want to rent a CAT. Reality is most that rent could really care less what color the machine is. I personally cant stand their smaller machines. Completely worthless for getting anything done. Sorry Ron I dont see this one. That is all my personal choice which means nothing. I really dont think you want to compete against CAT rental. Offer something else at a better price.

Bobcat while i am not a fan offers pretty killer deals for rental houses. You also have the ability to electronically change control patterns. You also can have foot operated machines that switch to hand operated. Pretty important options for a rental outfit. Most people that dont know any better still want to rent a "Bobcat" I am not knocking BC fans only saying that BC's name recognition still carries a lot of water among those that rent.

Models to rent
S175-seems to be the most common BC rental machine. Its cheap, not enough power to get out of its own way, which means dumbasss has a harder time wrecking it.

205-much as above just more capacity

CTL-I would rent the T-180 same as above.

CNH: you apparantly dont like Hammer Equipment which is who I think your refering to. There are few dealers in North America that sell more machines than Hammer, Titan would be the only one that I can think of that might sell more. I met numerous Hammer sales people in AZ last year. I think an honest sit down with one could put some of your worries to rest. These guys are by themselves selling hundreds of machines a piece. I was blown away by the numbers they were throwing out. You dont do that by shitting on people. However when your moving the amount of equipment they do, someone is not going to be happy. I would investigate this more . OK enough about Hammer. CASE allows you to run hand/foot and E/H controls that can switch patterns (but not in the same machine). That like BC is a big thing for renters. All of this also applies to NH since they are much the same except CASE offers more radial lift and NH more vertical machines. I dont know what CASE offers rental houses for deals.

SSL I would rent the 185, nice machines. I would get one in hand/foot the other in E/H.

CTL -I would go with the TR 270. This is in my opinion, an excellent smaller tracked machine.

Deere I am not sure about how they spec or offer their machines.


I would avoid a CTL unless you really think you need one to rent. IF you decide you need to offer one, I would certainly write a rental agreement that protects you from the dumbasss that destroys the tracks.

Good luck.

alco
02-15-2012, 01:40 AM
CNH: you apparantly dont like Hammer Equipment which is who I think your refering to. There are few dealers in North America that sell more machines than Hammer

Pretty much anybody moves more than Hammer does these days. Hammer is no more, having been taken over by Hiway Service. I've been told by many that Hiway Service, is more like Hiway robbery.

I also think that the Hammer folks may have been feeding you some tall tales. If they moved so many machines, where are they all? You don't really see too many Case machines out around the areas Hammer serviced. There are a few, certainly, but not the hundreds of machines per salesman you suggest.

ksss
02-15-2012, 02:01 AM
Pretty much anybody moves more than Hammer does these days. Hammer is no more, having been taken over by Hiway Service. I've been told by many that Hiway Service, is more like Hiway robbery.

I also think that the Hammer folks may have been feeding you some tall tales. If they moved so many machines, where are they all? You don't really see too many Case machines out around the areas Hammer serviced. There are a few, certainly, but not the hundreds of machines per salesman you suggest.


That could be. However their CASE reps were there as well and were not denying the claims. I assumed it to be true, but I dont live there to know any better. Regardless if I am going to start a rental house, I am going to talk to everyone that sells machines, including Hiway you dont know what the offer is until you talk to them. I think the machines are quality, that alone can keep your machines renting.

zabmasonry
02-15-2012, 08:33 AM
Brand qualities aside, I'd base my ENTIRE decision on what brand has the best service available. For a rental company downtime is VERY expensive. For O/O like most on this site, downtime is an inconvenience and a drag to productivity for a rental outfit downtime means directly lost income, and likely paying out additionally to "make it right" you easily end up losing twice what the machine brings in, IE when the machine breaks down on the job it stays there to fulfill that rental contract, you don't get paid for the extra time, then you have to forfeit the next rental because the machine is already in use.

I'd look for a dealer who keeps a large part inventory and works on a lot of these machines. They should be reputable, and from the start recognize on their own cognizance that keeping your machine's downtime at a minimum is a must. Even better if they can get a loaner out to your while your machine is down.

J2Rentals
02-15-2012, 09:21 AM
You are correct that the case dealer is hammer equipment / hi-way service and I will NOT buy from them. The are called Hi-way robbery up here for a reason.

The Bobcat place seems to have a decent service dept / parts inventory and is nice and close, the sales guy also seems very eager to earn my business.

The Cat dealer is about a 30-40 minute drive and is a huge location - but I know thier priority would be the large equipment and the highway trucks when it comes to getting in thier shop.

The Deere dealership is close, fairly big, and is guaranteeing me a loaner unit when needed (so far they are the only one to guarantee me a loaner unit) I also know some people who have bought from them and are happy with the service. I am just not 100% sold on thier machines.

The New Holland dealer is about the same drive as Cat. The only reason they are in the running is because of the dealership staff. The General Manager is excellent, the sales guy is fantastic, parts and service seems good, and I feel I would get excellent service from them.

The Bobcat guys seem to be giving the best prices on the units and the best lease rates. I just cant seem to find very many people with anything good to say about bobcat. I keep hearing they are under powered and VERY high maintenance - as said above down time kills rental companies. I agree that the brand recognition is probably the best with Bobcat.

Can not find a TK dealer anywhere up here so that is out.

ksss
02-15-2012, 05:03 PM
It is difficult for an Owner to put aside that which is important to his operation and discuss whats important for a rental house. They are certainly not the same. However assuming all those still in the running are on mostly on equal grounds as far as preference, Spend a day on each of the machines (sounds like Deere, BC and NH.). Chances are if you like running them so will your customers. The BC lower end machines are in my view really underpowered. They are also loud and really to me not that attractive to run. The larger more pimped out models are much better but I dont think you can make those machines pencil out in a rental. I am not sure about dependability of BC's smaller machines.

I would also look at ease of serviceability as a consideration.

bobcat_ron
02-15-2012, 06:16 PM
I wouldn't even consider any vertical path loader for a rental unit, Cat and Bobcat are the only ones I would trust, New Holland and Deere, I dunno.

zabmasonry
02-15-2012, 06:38 PM
Aren't NH's the same as Powertan only with a different paint scheme. I know that NH's smaller excavators are identical to the Case and Kobelco models.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-15-2012, 06:47 PM
here is another thought

look at the outside of the machine how much plastic is surrounding the machine.
just saw a new holland machine and the back is all plastic.

u want a machine u can roll over and can still work.

i would not get any track machine as the maint is alot to keep them going.

J2Rentals
02-15-2012, 06:52 PM
Update:

I was at the cat dealership for a few hours today.
I really like the 226b wheel machine so I ran it for a while in the yard and even though the specs say different it was stronger in the dirt then the bobcat s185. I really like it.

Then I ran the 247b in the dirt and really liked it too but the salesman was saying for rentals it would be a bad choice because of the running gear.
So then I ran a 259b for a while, it is a much heavier machine with all steel undercarriage. I though it was ok, it had lots of power, it just rode a lot rougher and felt like a very heavy machine when operating.

They are also giving me a good lease rate (not amazing but good) and are willing to give me a replacement machine during bigger warranty repairs.

Now just to run the new holland's next week and I should be able to make a decision, but at this point unless the new holland's drive like a dream or come through with a fantastic price I think I am going to buy Cat.

At this point Cat is my top choice right now and likely what I am going to buy.

J2Rentals
02-15-2012, 06:56 PM
The new holland and case are almost the same machines, a few small differences, but very similar.

I realize the track machines are a lot more to buy, maintain, and repair but there is such a strong demand for them right now and they do get a much higher rental rate. That is why I am trying to be careful on this purchasing and figure out who has the better built ctl undercarriage.

The other side to the coin is I will be using them a lot personally and for what I need a tracked machine would be a lot better.

alco
02-16-2012, 12:15 AM
Do yourself a favour, before you make a decision, go to Brandt, and try out a Deere D series. Just give one a try, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

ioilyouin
02-16-2012, 11:55 AM
Who are you renting to? Contractors or homeowners?

J2Rentals
02-16-2012, 06:28 PM
Both, that is until I find out what the market demand is. I would prefer commercial because it is nice dealing with people who know what they are doing as well as long term rentals. But at the start I will take any business I can.

deerewashed
02-16-2012, 08:56 PM
may i recommend you look at other equipment besides skids and track loaders and take that into account. It will be much easier going to the same dealer for skids as well as excavators, loaders, etc. Not having to run around to multiple dealers is nice. Deere has a nice product, and since they offered you a loaner when necessary i would go with them, especially considering you are only buying 1 of each. If it were to break down on site, instead of having to give your customer a free extra day after it is fixed, you can give them another machine within an hour or 2.


just my .02

bobcat_ron
02-16-2012, 08:58 PM
What about something like a JCB 1CX or Ditch Witch CTL/TLB combo's? They seem to be real head turners in a niche market.
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deerewashed
02-16-2012, 09:01 PM
Also, look at mustang, built very similarly to gehl and tak. great price point, and i checked there website and there is a dealer in airdrie if that is nearby....i rent mustang equipment every week, and they send me the same piece of equipment every time and i have been the operator if the majority of the hours on them....very dependable imo.

deerewashed
02-16-2012, 09:02 PM
What about something like a JCB 1CX or Ditch Witch CTL/TLB combo's? They seem to be real head turners in a niche market.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeh i am really interested in trying the ditch witch, possibly the coolest machine i have ever seen, especially if your work is primarily heavily populated areas with tight spots.

J2Rentals
02-18-2012, 09:13 AM
A Thank You to Deerewashed and Alco!

I am going to go with the John Deere, I picked out a 320D with the Electric controlls so the user can decide H-Pattern or ISO. Just like most of you on here he convinced me out of buying the tracked machine so instead I am going to buy this, wait a few months, then hopefully buy a mini Excavator. I have decided to simply buy this one and finance it instead of leaseing as well.

I am still not sold that I like the John Deere as the best machine but it is a good machine, has all the options I wanted Plus some extras that will be nice to have, and the price was in line with everyone else. This one is pretty well loaded with just about every option and for not much more then the other guys were quoting for ones with basic options.

What really sold me is that they are the only ones who will not be competeing against me in the rental market as they dont have a rental division so my hope is that when someone calls them to rent, they will send them to me or one of thier other rental house customers. I also feel that they are offering the best after sale support and the loaner machine will be a big perk. Plus the sales guy worked very hard to earn my business and seems like a trustworthy guy.

My only concern is how thier are hitting thier interm Tier 4 emissions standards...
Instead of a DPF filter, or DEF injection, they are using a EGR system that is recirculating most of the exhaust gases back into the engine to be reburnt. Only time will tell if this is a bad idea but it does make me a little nervouse about the potential life of the engine.

Thanks to everyone for your help, when I pick it up in a month I will let you know how it goes!

JDSKIDSTEER
02-19-2012, 06:40 AM
You will be very satisfied with the 320D. I have most of the independent rental companies in my area running 318D's and they are giving them very good service.

CPEC_Andy
04-16-2012, 02:02 PM
Hello and thank you for reading my post.

I am not sure on the rules on this forum so I will try not to say anything that might come across as advertising my company.

I own a small trailer rental company in Calgary, AB, Canada and am about to add 2 skid steers to my fleet. As the type of rental customer I would be primarily renting to would be land scappers, snow removal companies, and small construction companies (mostly the people who read this forum) I thought I would ask you guys what units and features you want on rental units.. and hopefully you can help me chose the best units to purchase. Keep in mind I need ones that can stand up to abuse and are reasonably cheap to maintain.

The brands I have it down to are Cat and Bobcat. I don't want to say anything to offend any other brands but after much reasearch i have already ruled out all the other brands. (although I Might consider a John Deere or New holland (the new holland dealer is good, the local case dealer is terrible)

I will be buying brand new (leaseing actually) and will have the full warranty on these units as well. I think I would like to go with 1 wheeled machine and one tracked machine, what are your thoughts?

SO far I am thinking:

Bobcat
S185 or S175
T190

Cat
226 236 or 242
247 257 259

The Cat track loaders are a bit heavey and I have heard many bad things about the 247 and 257 but maybe that is older units.

The only other thing I can add is that I want to stay Under 8000lbs operating weight on the tracked machine due to insurance and weights on my trailers.

I really appreciate any advise / help you can add!

Thanks Again!!!

We like the Terex products. The RC 30 and RC 50 are particular nice. They are appropriately sized for landscape and construction companies. In particular property improvement contractors like these units for their floatation. (Minimal damage to existing turf) The RC30 is the smallest sit in skid steer we could find and it does gang-busters from an ROI perspective. We bought several hundred.

2ExploreTech
04-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Renewing this thread over 2 months later...

J2Rentals -- so what machines did you go with and did you eventually get a track machine?

For rental companies, there is a set of tracks that can attach to a wheeled system. That is, tires come off and tracks hook up to the axels. Not as good as a true track system, but better then the steel wrap arounds. Perhaps your already familar with them(?) A rental co in NC got one a few yrs ago.

My recommendation for your tires would be to foam them or go solid rubber (or honecombed). As they tend to find every nail or sharp rock on a job-site. ... but others here may have had a different experience

69satelite
06-01-2012, 05:57 PM
I hate to hijack your thread but I cant pm on this site could you help me out I am looking into renting trailers also. I would just like to pick your brain a little.
Would you please pm me?