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View Full Version : Price of Fuel: Is Diesel Ever Going to be Worth it Again?


jbell36
02-19-2012, 10:27 PM
of course the year i decide to buy 3 diesel trucks the price of diesel jumps up, and has not gone down since...does anyone know why diesel is more expensive? and will it ever be cheaper than gas again?

diesels don't seem to be worth it anymore...diesels today are what, $6,000 - $8,000 more, and now they have all the emissions on them killing fuel economy, then diesel fuel is more expensive

White Gardens
02-20-2012, 12:08 AM
Nope, the only place I see for diesel is in heavy equipment and guys who use their trucks to haul a 20k loaded trailer daily.

.....

nickslawnltd
02-20-2012, 12:30 AM
Not only the higher fuel costs but also the higher maintenance and repair bills. My dumper is diesel and am looking at a new 3/4 ton and definitely thinking I'm going the gasser route

Swampy
02-20-2012, 02:58 AM
I love my diesel. I have a 6.5 and my MPG is so much better than my old dodge gasser. I love the fact that for plowing I can run longer with out having to fill up. Thats why I got it, granted I don't tow huge loads but it makes up for plowing (yes this snow season sucked and will continue to suck).

This year I'm really keeping a eye out for a second truck, to use as a back up. That one will be a gasser. I really don't like running one truck for plowing, incase of break downs. Also second truck in future to be turned into a mowing truck, and save the diesel for landscaping and such.

jetta
02-20-2012, 09:31 AM
i also loved my 03 duramax, however due to poor warranty and high repair expense i just got a new 2012 25 .....gas, miss the torque but not the smell

jetta
02-20-2012, 09:32 AM
should be 2500 hd

GQLL
02-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Gas trucks are fine for mowing routes. And this repairs on diesel cost more. But in the three years of owning my diesel compared to my gas truck the gas truck has cost me more in repairs. Also my mpg are vastly different the gas truck is getting 12 with the mowing trailer while the diesel is getting 17. I personally would take a diesel any day of the week over a gas truck.

White Gardens
02-20-2012, 10:23 AM
Gas trucks are fine for mowing routes. And this repairs on diesel cost more. But in the three years of owning my diesel compared to my gas truck the gas truck has cost me more in repairs.

What kind of repairs though? Apples-Apples it would have to Engine repairs to make the comparison.

I work on my vehicles and rarely do I take them to a shop. If I have a motor failure, it will still cost me way less to find a drop in motor over finding a diesel replacement, but that's my situation.

Another thing to think about also is bigger trucks. Cab and Chassis trucks such as my C3500HD, (or comparable f-450) are geared so low that the mileage difference is minimal when comparing gas vs. diesel.

Not trying to create any arguments, just adding to the conversation.

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scottslawncareav
02-20-2012, 11:34 AM
its the environmentalists that make the price of diesel sky rocket dam air quality control :confused:

jbell36
02-20-2012, 01:51 PM
Another thing to think about also is bigger trucks. Cab and Chassis trucks such as my C3500HD, (or comparable f-450) are geared so low that the mileage difference is minimal when comparing gas vs. diesel.

Not trying to create any arguments, just adding to the conversation.

.....

that's true...what about the NPR and Mits Fuso trucks? those are only four cylinders, the diesels anyways, so you would think they are geared lower, anyone know for sure? so would the fuel savings be that much better? i guess comparing it to an 8 cylinder it would have to get better MPG's no matter what the gears...

jbell36
02-20-2012, 01:53 PM
its the environmentalists that make the price of diesel sky rocket dam air quality control :confused:

yeah it seems like it would be something more "behind the scenes" that is making diesel more expensive...it just doesn't make sense for a fuel that is less refined and in less demand to be more expensive

Wright48
02-20-2012, 01:54 PM
I Must say I have a 2500 gas job and a 3500 diesel my 3500 diesel gets better millage and its a dump truck. My friend just bought a 2010 chevy diesel and hes averaging 18 around town and 25 on the highway pulling a trailer.

Valk
02-20-2012, 02:15 PM
A barrel of crude yields varying amounts of quite a few different products:

http://www.californiagasprices.com/crude_products.aspx

BaxtersEssentialLawnCare
02-20-2012, 05:43 PM
Something to keep in mind in the US gas is the more popular fuel, but in other places it is the pther way around. Look at europe they have alot of diesel cars so the demand their is much greater. Just something to think about.

willowick
02-20-2012, 06:47 PM
yeah it seems like it would be something more "behind the scenes" that is making diesel more expensive...it just doesn't make sense for a fuel that is less refined and in less demand to be more expensive

Two things are in play that cause this.

1. Fuel is fungible, so it goes where it can get the most money. In the case of diesel, it can go to Europe and be worth much more than it is here.

2. Our refineries are set up to run specific ways that create the petroleum products in amounts that reflect demand. Just like you don't edge with a 60" ZTR, they have their refineries built and tuned for their needs.

The delta between gasoline and diesel here is about $.17/gallon. Worth it to go diesel for me. Both of my vehicles are diesel because the math works. My truck is a HD, and I kinda wish I just had a half ton. E rated tires, expensive brakes...everything is more expensive on an HD compared to a half ton and a half ton would serve 90%+ of my capability needs.

JSW Development
02-21-2012, 12:17 AM
I agree that diesel is not what it used to be. My duramax isn't reliable anymore. My next trucks will be gas.

I have a f150 and it's been much cheaper to own and operate.

weeze
02-21-2012, 12:22 AM
i guess diesel is ok for mowers since you can use off road diesel which is cheaper. as far as trucks they cost too much for me and i don't have a need for them since i don't do snow plowing or tow heavy loads.

DOlandscape2011
02-21-2012, 01:05 AM
Those would be efficient mowing trucks, I believe they are made to maintain fuel economy while hauling around equipment or whatever. I dont believe they are meant for towing heavy loads. I have a 96 f150 gas and an 02 f350 diesel and they get close to the same mileage right now and they 350 has a big heavy cap that sticks over the roof line. So for a truck that's almost 3k lbs heavier, the mileage isn't terrible.

Tha5150
02-21-2012, 10:17 AM
for someone who lives in Florida and obviously doesnt plow, a gasser should be fine for a 6x10 or 12 trailer around town, correct?

thats what i am seeing. although, there is nothing better than a turbo helping you get up to speed with a medium load. i think that's my breaking point. im curious how much extra gas is used to get from a red light to cruising speed and around town, there are a lot of lights and stop signs.

i would think a diesel would be better on gas when a lot of stop and go.. true?

willowick
02-21-2012, 10:30 AM
for someone who lives in Florida and obviously doesnt plow, a gasser should be fine for a 6x10 or 12 trailer around town, correct?

thats what i am seeing. although, there is nothing better than a turbo helping you get up to speed with a medium load. i think that's my breaking point. im curious how much extra gas is used to get from a red light to cruising speed and around town, there are a lot of lights and stop signs.

i would think a diesel would be better on gas when a lot of stop and go.. true?

With the weight you'd have on a 6x12 trailer, gas is fine. You're in FL so no hills!
That said, yes a diesel will out-pull a gas engine every time but the new gas models still have ample torque. If you're hauling 6K, you don't really need something designed to haul 20K. Kinda overkill, IMO.

oznort
02-21-2012, 10:39 AM
Diesel is becoming more popular throughout the rest of the world which is impacting the US market. Here, ULSD and a tax rate of 24.4 cents per gallon compared to 18.4 cents per gallon for gasoline has made a large difference.

Tha5150
02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
Thanks

The thing is, i only work on the weekends currently and making due with wife's SUV until i get full time. I would then pay cash, less than 10k for sure (maybe more around 6k)for a truck. i want something nice enough to take on road trip, out to dinner, etc but also something that is a bit older to fit within my price range. i would love nothing more than the smell of diesel and sound of a turbo but i doubt i could get anything in that price range.

also, as for the upkeep, i want to be sure i am not getting a piece of junk you know?

i think i will be priced at getting a nice 2002- 2005 F250 or 150 for that price.

scottslawncareav
02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Diesel is becoming more popular throughout the rest of the world which is impacting the US market. Here, ULSD and a tax rate of 24.4 cents per gallon compared to 18.4 cents per gallon for gasoline has made a large difference.

it takes less to manufacture diesel the only reason the tax went up is because of the liberals. They want to push everyone in city's

Valk
02-21-2012, 11:32 AM
it takes less to manufacture diesel...
Yes, there's less refining to make diesel, but there is far less diesel refined/extracted from a barrel of crude than there is gasoline that is refined/extracted out of the same barrel. This primarily has to do with how long the carbon chains are.

willowick
02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
it takes less to manufacture diesel the only reason the tax went up is because of the liberals. They want to push everyone in city's

You get less diesel from a barrel of oil. It's denser fuel.

The tax thing is because diesel is primarily used by OTR truckers and it was deemed that because they are a multiplier to wear and tear on the roads, they should pay a larger share towards the upkeep of roads.

If some govt. faction wanted to use fuel taxes to push everyone into cities, then why is offroad diesel - mostly used by farmers - not taxed?

scottslawncareav
02-22-2012, 11:10 AM
how many people other then farmers do you know that use pink diesel. someones got to grow the food

professional
02-22-2012, 07:21 PM
I use pink diesel in my John Deere 997 ztr.

jbell36
02-24-2012, 06:54 PM
guys, technically it's red diesel...them there farmers might be a little upset if you were calling their red diesel pink...:usflag:

93Chevy
02-24-2012, 07:09 PM
I want a diesel for my next personal truck. I currently get about 8-10 MPG and I'd like to double that.

jbell36
03-01-2012, 06:56 PM
I want a diesel for my next personal truck. I currently get about 8-10 MPG and I'd like to double that.

yeah, i guess i get 11 hand calculated around town, a lot of stopping...11 is pretty bad but better than 8 i guess...be careful though, the new diesels have the emissions on them with the DPF filters, as i'm guessing you know...i'm planning on taking mine off but i still have a year of warranty left...the older dodges with the 5.9 cummins up to about '06 or '07 can get up around 16-18 in the city, 22 or so on the highway...i dont know what i would do if i had to do it over again, buy an older truck pre-emissions or buy what i have now, '08 powerstroke, and just take the emissions off...

93Chevy
03-01-2012, 07:06 PM
yeah, i guess i get 11 hand calculated around town, a lot of stopping...11 is pretty bad but better than 8 i guess...be careful though, the new diesels have the emissions on them with the DPF filters, as i'm guessing you know...i'm planning on taking mine off but i still have a year of warranty left...the older dodges with the 5.9 cummins up to about '06 or '07 can get up around 16-18 in the city, 22 or so on the highway...i dont know what i would do if i had to do it over again, buy an older truck pre-emissions or buy what i have now, '08 powerstroke, and just take the emissions off...

I'm definitely not buying a new diesel...early 2000's Duramax is what I'm looking for. I'd like to do some work to it, but not too much.

jbell36
03-01-2012, 10:55 PM
I'm definitely not buying a new diesel...early 2000's Duramax is what I'm looking for. I'd like to do some work to it, but not too much.

when i was looking at chevy's i was looking at the LBZ...that engine seemed to get the best feedback

cutn4alivin
04-14-2012, 02:57 AM
The costs come down to vehicle manufacturing and government. The government has more control then ever. And now with a vested interest in manufacturing costs and sales. Gas vehicles offer a higher profitability range then diesel.

JDGlandscape
04-20-2012, 09:30 PM
I dont know about you guys but I have both ( F350 7.3 and F250 5.4), and when loaded up with my 7x 16 HD dual axle trailer with two 52" ZTRs two back pack blowers, two trimmers, miscellaneous tools, couple cans of gas, two yards of grass clippings in the bed and myself and two others in the truck, the gas engine seems like a safety hazard pulling out onto roads.
It is ridiculous how bad it is on pulling onto 55 mph roads and then going up long hills on a 55 mph road it will drop to like 30 mph at 3900 rpms. and to top off how annoying that is, It would get 7ish mpgs. Very aggravating. and that was with both a chevy 6.0 gas that i borrowed for a week and the ford 5.4. The chevy seemed to have a tiny bit more power than the ford 5.4 but worse mileage. Ford around 8 and chevy around 7.

Now take my ford 7.3. Wow, I never want a gas engine again. Soo much more power, can actually pull out onto a road without needing a mile of room to get up to speed. and with the same exact load, I get 14.5-15 mpg. So about DOUBLE the fuel cost for the gas even with the fuel price difference.
I wont even get into the fuel savings for plowing. It is even more with a 9 v plow and 2 yards of sand. I dont even feel safe in the gas engine with all that weight

I am not trying to tell people what is best for them, BUT for my business and what I do, the diesel is much much better. and yearly costs INCLUDING all the extra maintenance people think is so bad on a diesel, I save and make up for having the deisel.. And if i go to sell them, the 7.3 holds its value way more than the gas engine

willowick
04-21-2012, 08:34 PM
My 2006 Dodge 2500 diesel is a freight train. I've never been lacking power with the 5.9. Mileage is about 14 pulling ~9K. Yeah it is loud and generally unrefined but does the job.
The sound system sucks and the seats stain easily. The dashboard is made out of recycled McDonalds coffee cups, I think.

Other than that, it is great utility-wise.

BrandonV
04-21-2012, 11:00 PM
I just went through this conundrum with my needing to decide on a diesel super lawn truck or a gas. I opted for the diesel because after I did the math I'd break even (gas isuzu vs diesel mitfuso) at about 60k miles at current prices with no repairs. But this is a 8mpg gas vs a 15mpg diesel. I think in the world of pickups now the diesels might not make the decision so easy.

Kelly's Landscaping
04-22-2012, 01:22 PM
of course the year i decide to buy 3 diesel trucks the price of diesel jumps up, and has not gone down since...does anyone know why diesel is more expensive? and will it ever be cheaper than gas again?

diesels don't seem to be worth it anymore...diesels today are what, $6,000 - $8,000 more, and now they have all the emissions on them killing fuel economy, then diesel fuel is more expensive

Just filled up mine the other day cost me 172 dollars at the pump but in fairness I wasn't empty my tanks a 52 gal so it can hit 200 dollars to fill it. But is it worth it well the price of diesel was 4.29 a gallon and the reg gas same station was 4.15 so at first glance the diesel seems to cost more. But the fuel economy is huge my ram 4500 weighs 9000 pounds empty add in 2-3000 pounds of grass and my 20ft trailer loaded and I am some where around 17000 pounds the gvw is 25900 so I am a heavy weight. But I get 10-12 mpg with that load on some very hilly terrain a gas truck at that weigh would be getting 5-7 mpg. So my fuel savings is approaching 50% so 2 dollars a gallon savings over gas and I am getting my money back in 3000-4000 gallons. Or about 3-5 years but the trucks last significantly longer the gas engine trucks. And the resale value on diesels is always 5000 plus more sometimes 10000.

So I do not see the issue your making yes the good old days of being more fuel efficient while at the same time spending 40 cents a gallon less are over. But even at to days prices its still beneficial to have the diesel. Plus there is a lot of talk about converting a large portion of the 18 wheeler fleets to natural gas since that's cheaper now. If that happened then the demand for diesel decreases and thus the price of us small diesel trucks will come down so says supply and demand.

Kelly's Landscaping
04-22-2012, 01:36 PM
It is ridiculous how bad it is on pulling onto 55 mph roads and then going up long hills on a 55 mph road it will drop to like 30 mph at 3900 rpms.

Soo much more power, can actually pull out onto a road without needing a mile of room to get up to speed.


I took my truck up to your state last Sept to a summer camp staff reunion for the 80s don't ask.

Anyways your roads are sick you are not kidding about the speed limits up there I was on 16 and was amazed at the speed limits for a road with no center divide. Where talking 100 mph head on collisions if to cars hit at speed. But my trip went well averaged 17.1 mpg round trip from milford ct to west ossipee nh. And when you consider what I was driving that is unreal. Think I ended up getting 900 miles on that tank of diesel.

JCLawn and more
04-22-2012, 01:43 PM
Now with my 1500 dodge pulling with my mowers that weigh 1800 a piece with a 2200lbs trailer I am lucky to get 6 mpg. I got 170 miles on a 30 gallon tank. I can only do 70 mph on the freeway with my foot to the floor. I want a diesel bad lol
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JDGlandscape
04-22-2012, 03:43 PM
I took my truck up to your state last Sept to a summer camp staff reunion for the 80s don't ask.

Anyways your roads are sick you are not kidding about the speed limits up there I was on 16 and was amazed at the speed limits for a road with no center divide. Where talking 100 mph head on collisions if to cars hit at speed. But my trip went well averaged 17.1 mpg round trip from milford ct to west ossipee nh. And when you consider what I was driving that is unreal. Think I ended up getting 900 miles on that tank of diesel.

i know the ossipee area very well, I have family there and go camping and snowmobiling quite a bit up there. I am from the concord area and we have speed limits on roads with no middle dividers that are 55mph and people go 65-70 the whole way. it is not fun pulling onto those loaded up with a gas engine lol I am actually from the concord area.

lkendall
04-22-2012, 06:35 PM
diesel just went back under 4 a gallon here in MD

hosejockey2002
04-23-2012, 12:25 AM
I dont know about you guys but I have both ( F350 7.3 and F250 5.4), and when loaded up with my 7x 16 HD dual axle trailer with two 52" ZTRs two back pack blowers, two trimmers, miscellaneous tools, couple cans of gas, two yards of grass clippings in the bed and myself and two others in the truck, the gas engine seems like a safety hazard pulling out onto roads.
It is ridiculous how bad it is on pulling onto 55 mph roads and then going up long hills on a 55 mph road it will drop to like 30 mph at 3900 rpms. and to top off how annoying that is, It would get 7ish mpgs. Very aggravating. and that was with both a chevy 6.0 gas that i borrowed for a week and the ford 5.4. The chevy seemed to have a tiny bit more power than the ford 5.4 but worse mileage. Ford around 8 and chevy around 7.

Now take my ford 7.3. Wow, I never want a gas engine again. Soo much more power, can actually pull out onto a road without needing a mile of room to get up to speed. and with the same exact load, I get 14.5-15 mpg. So about DOUBLE the fuel cost for the gas even with the fuel price difference.
I wont even get into the fuel savings for plowing. It is even more with a 9 v plow and 2 yards of sand. I dont even feel safe in the gas engine with all that weight

I am not trying to tell people what is best for them, BUT for my business and what I do, the diesel is much much better. and yearly costs INCLUDING all the extra maintenance people think is so bad on a diesel, I save and make up for having the deisel.. And if i go to sell them, the 7.3 holds its value way more than the gas engine

The trucks you are talking about are 10-13 years old, and the arguments you present are valid for the trucks you mention. However, today's gas trucks have much more pulling power than your 2002 5.4 (actually so did the 2002 6.8 V10), and today's diesels burn a lot more fuel than your 7.3 does. Today's diesels still outpull the gas engines by a significant margin, but both the power and mileage gaps are closing. With all the emission garbage they put on a diesel truck built after 2008, it's almost a necessity to illegally delete federally mandated emission equipment to make the trucks economical and reliable. Once they get all this emission bs straightened out, a diesel truck may be worth considering again.

mtmower
04-23-2012, 12:39 AM
I dont know about you guys but I have both ( F350 7.3 and F250 5.4), and when loaded up with my 7x 16 HD dual axle trailer with two 52" ZTRs two back pack blowers, two trimmers, miscellaneous tools, couple cans of gas, two yards of grass clippings in the bed and myself and two others in the truck, the gas engine seems like a safety hazard pulling out onto roads.
It is ridiculous how bad it is on pulling onto 55 mph roads and then going up long hills on a 55 mph road it will drop to like 30 mph at 3900 rpms. and to top off how annoying that is, It would get 7ish mpgs. Very aggravating. and that was with both a chevy 6.0 gas that i borrowed for a week and the ford 5.4. The chevy seemed to have a tiny bit more power than the ford 5.4 but worse mileage. Ford around 8 and chevy around 7.

Now take my ford 7.3. Wow, I never want a gas engine again. Soo much more power, can actually pull out onto a road without needing a mile of room to get up to speed. and with the same exact load, I get 14.5-15 mpg. So about DOUBLE the fuel cost for the gas even with the fuel price difference.
I wont even get into the fuel savings for plowing. It is even more with a 9 v plow and 2 yards of sand. I dont even feel safe in the gas engine with all that weight

I am not trying to tell people what is best for them, BUT for my business and what I do, the diesel is much much better. and yearly costs INCLUDING all the extra maintenance people think is so bad on a diesel, I save and make up for having the deisel.. And if i go to sell them, the 7.3 holds its value way more than the gas engine


I've got a 2000 F350 7.3 and an 2002 Excursion 7.3 and according to the lie-o-meter on the roof console I'm able to get close to 20 mpg highway. Both have the big Donaldson air filter mod and a super chip set on the middle tow setting. My truck use to show numbers close to that running empty. A little lower, but close. About a year ago my mpg dropped and I can't figure out why. Pulling about 6000 plus pounds I'm only seeing around 10-11 mpg. I do love the brute torque and would miss it I'm sure. I figured the new gassers could be getting close to these numbers. Have to think long and hard about diesel next purchase. Oil changes are a killer on these.

JDGlandscape
04-23-2012, 01:02 AM
Yes you are right, if I were looking between 2008 and 2010, I would look into gas, but they have definately stepped it up with the powerstroke 6.7. That engine is providing better mpgs than the 7.3
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DoetschOutdoor
04-26-2012, 08:11 PM
Changing the oil on a diesel is no more expensive than a gasser. $60 for 3 gallons of oil and a good filter, which only has to be done every 5 or 6k. You would do 2 oil changes on a gasser at $30+ in the same amount of time.

dwc
04-28-2012, 12:52 AM
my 2010 Ford F-250 with the powerstroke will get 18-20 down the interstate at 75-80mph. My big block gmc got about 12 MAX. The gmc was a 2 wheel drive extended cab, the ford is a 4x4 crew cab that weighs a tad over 8,000lbs.
Where a diesel really shines is at trade in time. Never seen anyone fight over a gas truck, but the last 2 diesels I have traded they sure did. Yes the diesel costs more up front, but you will get better fuel mileage and it will be worth MORE when you trade down the road.

PLS-Tx
04-28-2012, 02:48 AM
my 2010 Ford F-250 with the powerstroke will get 18-20 down the interstate at 75-80mph. My big block gmc got about 12 MAX. The gmc was a 2 wheel drive extended cab, the ford is a 4x4 crew cab that weighs a tad over 8,000lbs.
Where a diesel really shines is at trade in time. Never seen anyone fight over a gas truck, but the last 2 diesels I have traded they sure did. Yes the diesel costs more up front, but you will get better fuel mileage and it will be worth MORE when you trade down the road.

It's worth more when you trade it because you paid more for it when you bought it.

Some guys need a diesel some don't. I don't, I'm very happy with my 5.7 Hemi. :)

PlantscapeSolutions
04-28-2012, 03:01 AM
All of the big three now use DEF that has refined the DPF process even more. Emissions issues were always on a small scale but you tend to always hear the most from people who love or hate their trucks.

The biggest thing you must keep in mind is that a gallon of gas is not equal to a gallon of Diesel. It takes about 1.3 gallons of gas to equal the BTU's found in one gallon of gas. If gas is $3.75 then Diesel would have to be $4.88 to be it's equal.

I have an 06' Ram 4x2 2500 that is stock and it was $30K well spent. It pulls my 16' enclosed trailer up 10% grades with ease. It climbs hills with ease and you don't have to wind the piss out of it like a gasser that has a total lack of low RPM torque. It's nice to have a truck that can pull mowers or pull a few pallets of mulch.

My daily driver is a 09' Ram 3500 dually 4x4. All of the emissions stuff is in my garage. I went on a 400 mile round trip from Austin to Dallas last year and pulled down 17.65 mpg's at 65 mph. If I had slowed to 55 I probably could have picked up another mpg.

I like my oil burners and will never go back to gas again. I put 180K on my 02' Ram 4x4 and then sold it for over ten grand. If your pulling more then just some tiny single axle trailer and want a truck that isn't a one trick pony then Diesel is a good long term investment.

If your a landscape/maintenance company Diesel is really a must. If your just a grass guy with a tiny trailer and one WB then it you could darn near get by with a moped and a trailer hitch.

Swampy
04-28-2012, 04:02 AM
I'm that one walkbehind guy....... and I still drive a diesel (chevy 3500 6.5L). Actually looking for another one but can't seem to find a decent 1500 with a 6.5L in it.

dwc
04-28-2012, 08:03 PM
It's worth more when you trade it because you paid more for it when you bought it.

Some guys need a diesel some don't. I don't, I'm very happy with my 5.7 Hemi. :)
I know its worth more because you pay more up front, but I get tired of hearing how just because a diesel is $8,000 more up front you just loose it all and never see it again. That's not true.

You are right, some guys don't need a diesel. My mowing trailer weighs 10,000 or more depending on the amount of clippings I am hauling and my truck and trailer together are about 18,000+. Most gassers wouldn't pull it too well, so my diesel really shines in my case.

PlantscapeSolutions
04-28-2012, 08:34 PM
I'm that one walkbehind guy....... and I still drive a diesel (chevy 3500 6.5L). Actually looking for another one but can't seem to find a decent 1500 with a 6.5L in it.

Most of those 6.5's are dead and gone. Most of them never even saw 200K. I've only seen a few of those 6.5 powered 1500's. You can always re-power your ride with a Cummins conversion kit. There are three companies that specialize in parts for doing Cummins swaps.

Be warned though that if you swap in a 12 valve Cummins your going to realize what a turd that 6.5 is. The Chevy 350 is the king of the gasser small block world but the 5.9 12 valve/24 valve/CR is the king of the Diesel performance market.

The best way to keep those 6.5's alive is to talk to the folks at Heath Diesel. They specialize in those 6.2 & 6.5 Diesels. I think the harmonic balancers and weak engine blocks are some of the issues with the old GM Diesels. You have to fill in half the coolant passages to stiffen up the block and make it dependable.

greendoctor
04-29-2012, 04:39 AM
In spite of higher maintenance costs(12 qt diesel grade motor oil) and higher fuel costs(now $4.80 vs $4.50 for gas) diesel is worth it for me. How? None of the roads I drive are flat, you are going uphill and much of this is on what is supposed to be a freeway. I also am not driving around with nothing in the bed. Spray rig and whatever is needed to keep the spray tank filled. Honolulu also has some of the worst traffic in the nation as well. Stop and go traffic on small streets and on the freeways from daylight til dark. My hand calculated mileage under these conditions is 17 MPG. This is with the DPF and EGR still functional and where Chrysler installed them. I once drove gas trucks under the same conditions and with the same load. No better than 10 MPG. In order for diesel to be not worth it for me, the cost per gallon would have to be 1.5 times the cost of gas. I know there are V-10 engined trucks that would be equivalent or better in terms of power. But which would I rather do. A $140 fill up once every 7-10 days(diesel) or a $90 fill up every 2-3 days? I could probably manage with a small gas engine. Then I get to hold up traffic going up hills and on the freeway while still having to refuel twice a week. No thanks.

hosejockey2002
04-29-2012, 11:48 AM
My daily driver is a 09' Ram 3500 dually 4x4. All of the emissions stuff is in my garage. I went on a 400 mile round trip from Austin to Dallas last year and pulled down 17.65 mpg's at 65 mph. If I had slowed to 55 I probably could have picked up another mpg.

You just pointed out the number 1 problem with new diesels. All of your emissions stuff is in the garage. You have to take all that stuff off to make the truck run reliably and get good mileage, and that seems to be true for any brand made after 2008. A lot of guys don't have the option of doing deletes because their trucks are subject to emission testing and inspection, and for those guys the gas truck may be better. There is no question that diesels drive and pull much better, but until they get the emission stuff completely dialed in, the reliability and costs aren't going to pencil out. I want to put the key in the truck and drive it, not fiddle around with it.

PlantscapeSolutions
04-29-2012, 04:37 PM
You just pointed out the number 1 problem with new diesels. All of your emissions stuff is in the garage. You have to take all that stuff off to make the truck run reliably and get good mileage, and that seems to be true for any brand made after 2008. A lot of guys don't have the option of doing deletes because their trucks are subject to emission testing and inspection, and for those guys the gas truck may be better. There is no question that diesels drive and pull much better, but until they get the emission stuff completely dialed in, the reliability and costs aren't going to pencil out. I want to put the key in the truck and drive it, not fiddle around with it.

All the new trucks use DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and the emissions issues that were always on a small scale are a thing of the past. I'm one of those guys that has to tinker on everything. My last 02' Ram 2500 made 600 HP and 1300 ft lbs of torque. It had water/methanol injection and too many mods to list ($30,000).

I've only spent $8500 on mods with my current ride an don't plan on going crazy. I do want to add a Dynatrac Free Spin kit that will save me 1.5 mpg's and set me back another $2500 or so.

CandyAces
04-30-2012, 11:26 PM
that's true...what about the NPR and Mits Fuso trucks? those are only four cylinders, the diesels anyways, so you would think they are geared lower, anyone know for sure? so would the fuel savings be that much better? i guess comparing it to an 8 cylinder it would have to get better MPG's no matter what the gears...

I had a 09' Isuzu NPR HD gas 20ft box truck 6.0L, it got 6.5mpg in city. I now have a 10' Isuzu NPR HD diesel 10 to 10.5 mpg city. Love the diesel, it doesnt know if its loaded or not, power all day long!!:weightlifter:

Turf Commando
05-01-2012, 12:32 AM
If your pulling 12k and up diesel is boss. If your not any gaser will perform. One good thing I can say about Ford V8 motors. They suck on gas mileage loaded or unloaded.
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Swampy
05-02-2012, 11:57 PM
Most of those 6.5's are dead and gone. Most of them never even saw 200K. I've only seen a few of those 6.5 powered 1500's. You can always re-power your ride with a Cummins conversion kit. There are three companies that specialize in parts for doing Cummins swaps.

Be warned though that if you swap in a 12 valve Cummins your going to realize what a turd that 6.5 is. The Chevy 350 is the king of the gasser small block world but the 5.9 12 valve/24 valve/CR is the king of the Diesel performance market.

The best way to keep those 6.5's alive is to talk to the folks at Heath Diesel. They specialize in those 6.2 & 6.5 Diesels. I think the harmonic balancers and weak engine blocks are some of the issues with the old GM Diesels. You have to fill in half the coolant passages to stiffen up the block and make it dependable.

6.5's got a bad rap. Alot poor trained mechanics and bad dealers support, that threw costumers money at problems that weren't problems. Such as the Injection Pump, for fuel problems when it's usually the fuel sending driver. When you should be taking any diesel to a actual diesel shop instead.

They are still around, and actually quite cheap. I can pick up a crate surplus motor cheaper then finding 12v cummins, I've looked into cummins swaps but I'm happy with the 6.5L, not big on horsepower compared to the others but does fine with a lawn service trailer and great on fuel. I was thinking of getting a F-SuperDuty with a 460 gasser (it was dirt cheap) and dropping in a cummins.

I know Heath diesel, my oil cooler lines, balancer, and PMD relocation kit came from them and Huckstorf put it all in.

The blocks aren't the weak point, its the crankshaft that goes on them from a failed balancer those are the killing issues but most of the problems come from failed FSD/PMD. Mine has been relocated to the front bumper. Others where the oil cooler lines (failing at the crimp), or people letting their EGT skyrocket trying to blow black smoke (any smoke from a 6.5L is a bad sign).

Yes I've drove 7.3's and 5.9 Diesels as well. I know mine shouldn't be in the same catagory as those. The one complaint I do have is with ULSD, I have to use a fuel additive and change out fuel filters every 6 months.