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View Full Version : Imprelis Discussion - it's damage, Dupont's Claim Process, Lawsuits filed, Experience


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Starbuy
02-27-2012, 07:30 PM
If your a homeowner or business that has been affected by the damage caused by Imprelis you may submit your questions, comments, experiences and advice without judgement or criticism by others. I'm a landscape professional and property owner who has had landscape damage caused by Dupont's Imprelis.

avguy
02-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Did you not have to be licensed to purchase Imprelis?

Starbuy
02-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Did you not have to be licensed to purchase Imprelis?

I never purchased Imprelis. My property was damaged due to the neighbor's LCO applying it to their yard and it migrated into my yard which is downhill from theirs. Yes, those who purchased Imprelis had to be licensed.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-27-2012, 08:33 PM
what is odd is the bulk of the damage is in the northern states where there was more rain???
its a real mess

Starbuy
02-27-2012, 08:34 PM
More lawsuits filed against Imprelis maker Dupont: http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/29-lawsuits-filed-against-dupont-over-tree-damage-jm4afsh-140211533.html

It is not stated in this article whether any of these property owners rejected Dupont's offer within the claims process set up by Dupont or if they were never a part of Dupont's claim process. Dupont has hired Epiq Systems which helps corporations with recalls, damage liability issues and claimant compensations.

Starbuy
02-27-2012, 08:40 PM
what is odd is the bulk of the damage is in the northern states where there was more rain???
its a real mess

I agree. From what many researchers have claimed, Dupont allegedly didn't properly test the product with the thought of certain rainfall levels and proximity to susceptible shrubs and trees. The product certainly migrated as it leeched into the soil and was sucked up by these conifers during their important feeding cycle.

cindyb
02-28-2012, 11:03 AM
Thanks for starting this thread and the links. I didn't see homeowners had an area and that we weren't supposed to post on other threads. My apologies to any LCO that was inconvenienced by my posts.

This forum is the only place that I have found any updates on what Dupont is doing. They aren't informing my LCO and when I call, they say be patient.

I don't want a fortune. I want my yard to look like it did before it was treated with Imprelis and thats not going to happen. I have dead pine trees and pine trees that look like aliens. My peach tree is toasted and my weeping willow? Before the leaves fell off, the leaf went from single leaf to triple, all grown together.

We took good care of our trees and paid huge water bills in drought summers to keep them healthy. I consider that part of reimbursement.

Something else that is bothering me and unless you are an animal lover, you won't understand. My back white pine has been my burial ground for my pets. The thought of them being dug up breaks my heart. That tree might will just be leveled at the stump.

Star, please keep me posted. Seems you have an inside on whats happening and I do appreciate it. When I get an offer, I'll share. Dupont is in no hurry and I won't rush to settle.

Starbuy
02-28-2012, 02:43 PM
Here's a good article that summarizes the Imprelis situation well:
http://www.winonapost.com/stock/functions/VDG_Pub/detail.php?choice=46191&home_page=1&archives=

Some worthwhile information for homeowners provided in the article:
"DuPont has promised to settle with homeowners and others who have dead and damaged trees from use of Imprelis, but some trees are very old, and will probably be replaced with younger trees, changing the look of the landscape. It is also important that the trees be replaced correctly, to avoid contaminating the new trees." - this is something each homeowner must evaluate to see if the possibly permanent change to their landscape is valued correctly by Dupont. Also, will Dupont compensate for not just a tree/shrub of equal height to what was damaged or will they compensate for the height that damaged tree/shrub would have been at the time of replacement which could be 1' to 3' higher by the time the settlement is reached with the homeowner? For some with symetrical landscape, such as trees/shrubs lining each side of a drive, if one side was affected then the other side continued to grow past the heights of the damaged side. Therefore, a reasonable adjustment by Dupont to compensate for the height of tree/shrub it would have been could be demanded by homeowners.

Article above in link also provides more insight into possible lasting dangers:
"Because Imprelis doesn’t break down, it’s effects are also being seen at compost sites. Imprelis does not bind to the soil, and could conceivably seep into the groundwater as well. Composters are urged to take care with grass clippings. Clippings that come from Imprelis treated lawns, and wood trimmed from Imprelis damaged trees cannot be used as mulch, as it would infect the plants mulched with the product."

Source: Herbicide kills trees, recalled (02/08/2012)
By Frances Edstrom

Starbuy
03-01-2012, 12:26 PM
Dupont has confirmed that the offers they are sending to Imprelis damaged property owners is not a take it or leave it offer. They are receiving counteroffers for property owners who are following the instructions they send out with the offer. Other cost factors such as property value loss, impacts to privacy, additonal costs involved in digging due to utilities, additional costs for matching other trees that may have grown since the time the damaged ones stopped growing, all can be claimed in the counteroffers. The first offers are very basic going of simple formulas that don't take into consideration things like the loss of the money you put into the maintenance of the shrub/tree through the years up to death (that money you spent is now wasted since Imprelis damaged your tree you were faithfully maintaining) or things like the difference in cost between when it stopped growing and what it should be when you replace it. The initial offers just goes off the measurement at time of site visit. But they know that if you have a row of trees/shrubs and let's say 4 need replaced you aren't going to put it ones that are now 18" shorter than the others that continued to grow, therefore that is to be included in your counteroffer letter back to them.

They are reviewing counteroffers. Their claims process is a process. Patience is needed, but of course as your other trees grow the ones that were supposed to match become more expensive for them to compensate for in counteroffers so they are trying to move as fast as possible from what I was told. Some property owners are leaving the process in order to file in the courts. It's something we all must consider when reviewing their counter proposal to our counter proposal.

Starbuy
03-01-2012, 02:39 PM
An arborist from Davey Tree told me the figures they've seen from the claims process are too low for the actual work and replacement involved. Some owners finding out after agreeing to what they thought was good compensation that the 15% 'extra' compensation is getting eating up in the replacement process. These are ones who did not counteroffer to make sure they included all their losses and ones who didn't actually get real appraisals of the value loss, costs to dig/replace, costs to make sure the new ones match the new heights of their other shrubs (when they were supposed to match for symetry), and maintenance.
Just relaying what I was told.
Note: I understand Davey Tree also used Imprelis on properties.

cindyb
03-01-2012, 05:19 PM
An arborist from Davey Tree told me the figures they've seen from the claims process are too low for the actual work and replacement involved. Some owners finding out after agreeing to what they thought was good compensation that the 15% 'extra' compensation is getting eating up in the replacement process. These are ones who did not counteroffer to make sure they included all their losses and ones who didn't actually get real appraisals of the value loss, costs to dig/replace, costs to make sure the new ones match the new heights of their other shrubs (when they were supposed to match for symetry), and maintenance.
Just relaying what I was told.
Note: I understand Davey Tree also used Imprelis on properties.

Star, again thanks for the information.

I'll wait for my offer and then have the tree company that listed, come out.

I guess I can ask the tree company but if any LCO wants to answer, great. We skipped spring last year and jumped into summer with 100 temps. Does that mean we have to wait till fall to plant trees?

cindyb
03-09-2012, 11:21 PM
Still nothing.

Had the tree company on the list come out, there are more damaged trees. Checking the other thread to see if anybody else has updates.

Starbuy
03-11-2012, 11:11 PM
Dupont called me to discuss some of the extra costly items that the Imprelis damaged trees have incurred and the fact that since the ones that died would have been the same size as the ones they're supposed to match on the other side of my drive. Since their first estimates are only based on the size the trees were when the site visit took place, the rep said I will need to send in the information within the counteroffer. They are accepting counteroffers for review. The first ones they send out are the lowball figures (which Davey Tree stated it would not be enough for all the work involved). The Dupont rep told me its good to gather all information that causes the settlement to have to increase to make the property 'whole'. Any extra digging to remove all the roots, Imprelis soil, moving/replacing utilities, property value loss, and demands that the trees to be replaced be done so with ones that are the same size as the would have been had they not been damaged by Imprelis, all these things are to be included on the counteroffer you send back to them. They understand that each property is different and what one offer could work for one property doesn't mean it will work for all to bring the property 'whole'.

It was also suggested by a supervisor at Dupont (in the product recall department) that the areas like mine that had heavy damage may mean not being able to replant on those areas for an undertermined time due to it still being in the soil. Studies have found it can last over 1 year and where it was used heavily plants can't grow and their growth is stunted and abnormal. They even suggested they would just grind down the stumb. Since that would permanantly ruin my landscape the compensation would have to be increased greatly. She then got quite and said this was beyond her ability to help in the matter and consultation with others would take place.

Many of them do not know much about plantlife, landscaping and true costs for labor. They are depending on an accounting firm Deloitte LLP to come up with the case by case $ figures based on tree prices, but they don't get all the information about your claim, so their basic formula figures must go back to Epiq Systems to handle mailing them out. Once a person rejects the first lowball offer they can send in all the information (appraisals help) to show them the true cost to make you 'whole'.

Some small claims seem to get accepted easier since costs are smaller, but get proper estimates done to see how much it will really cost.

Dupont will not pay any contractor to do the work, even if they've worked out 'deals' with them. They can only send the property owner the full check for the whole settlement and it is up to you what company you want the work to be done by. You can hand pick the trees and have more control over the relandscaping of your property.

At this point, mine is still in review. I need the settlement so i can first remove the destroyed trees and ruined soil. But, I'm going to wait until fall to replant since I don't want harm to come to the new ones. If your area wasn't as hit as hard as mine you maybe able to plant earlier, but use active charcoal in the soil and even the lawn around it since its still in the lawn and that could migrate right back into the tree bed.

cindyb
03-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Thanks for the update.

I'm in the same situation. Everything is dead or dying or deformed. There is no chance of replanting, we are going up to 80 degrees here, last summer was mostly in the 100's so it'll be fall. All we can look at right now is removal.

The tree company on the list examed everything. Was hoping the Weeping White Pine wasn't hurt but he showed me the damage.

cindyb
03-28-2012, 01:36 PM
I never purchased Imprelis. My property was damaged due to the neighbor's LCO applying it to their yard and it migrated into my yard which is downhill from theirs. Yes, those who purchased Imprelis had to be licensed.

My hubby helped plant trees in the neighbors yard. Their yard is downhill from ours. The runoff is killing their trees.

cindyb
03-28-2012, 01:54 PM
Star, if you're still posting? I see the LCO's are getting 1099's for the legwork they did. How will that work for homeowners when Dupont gives us a check?

Also we're concerned with the future problems with the Imprelis in the soil such as how the EPA handles company chemical spills. If we sign off, are we liable for the future clean up?

Starbuy
03-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Yes, the LCOs are getting 1099's because they are basically working for Dupont when they agreed to do the site visits. The money they receive from the visits is not considered damages, but income. LCO's will only get damages if they work that out with Dupont or file suit depending on if they lost clients, income, etc.

Since Dupont's offer to property owners is for damages there shouldn't be a 1099 since it isn't income. You didn't work for them. Just like if you get a check from an insurance company after someone damages your car. That is not income. But, it's always safe to check with an accountant.

As far as being liable for future Imprelis damage and cleanup, the settlement offer addresses that, but I am also concerned about long term damage after the 2 years they promise to cover everything. Even if the long term affects don't kill, what if it still hinders long term growth? Dupont's own tests showed it was still affecting soil after a year. The stuff is potent. Sure, some seeds might germinate, but what about long term affects on growth of conifers you replace? That's why I'm carefully examining Dupont's initial lowball offer to see what the true damages are and what I should really be compensated for in giving up my right to take them to court later if more trouble arises. That is why they are really pushing to get as many to do their claims process and maybe they will compensate fairly just to avoid a lot of rejected offers and hence more lawsuits, especially in states with treble damage laws like Ohio which pertains to anyone even damaging your landscape, not just stealing plants.

cindyb
04-05-2012, 10:56 AM
That's why I'm carefully examining Dupont's initial lowball offer to see what the true damages are and what I should really be compensated for in giving up my right to take them to court later if more trouble arises. That is why they are really pushing to get as many to do their claims process and maybe they will compensate fairly just to avoid a lot of rejected offers and hence more lawsuits, especially in states with treble damage laws like Ohio which pertains to anyone even damaging your landscape, not just stealing plants.

They sure aren't in any hurry. If they are pushing to settle, I haven't seen it. Its been close to a year. I hope they do the right thing the first time.

Starbuy
04-10-2012, 10:57 AM
More bad signs that Dupont's Resolution process is offering less than adequate compensation to homeowners damaged by Imprelis. 34 more file suit in just one neighborhood. http://breakinglawsuitnews.com/dupont-facing-more-lawsuits-over-imprelis/

Davey Tree reps confirmed the offers are too small.

cindyb
04-10-2012, 03:01 PM
More bad signs that Dupont's Resolution process is offering less than adequate compensation to homeowners damaged by Imprelis. 34 more file suit in just one neighborhood. http://breakinglawsuitnews.com/dupont-facing-more-lawsuits-over-imprelis/

Davey Tree reps confirmed the offers are too small.

Amazing. They have Davey as the people to price and do the job but don't want to pay the amount.

Going on a year, my site visit is scheduled. We'll see.

cindyb
04-10-2012, 03:06 PM
http://www.bunchandjames.com/tag/lawsuit/

Starbuy
04-10-2012, 05:37 PM
Amazing. They have Davey as the people to price and do the job but don't want to pay the amount.

Going on a year, my site visit is scheduled. We'll see.

Are you saying there hasn't been a site visit yet for you property?

cindyb
04-12-2012, 10:40 AM
We chose the option of the LCO doing the paper work and pictures. I in addition, have the damage/estimate report from the tree company on the Dupont list but no this is the first Dupont visit.

cindyb
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
Purdue has a list of trees/bushes affected. Also talks about weakened root systems that could be more susceptible to drought and future problems.

http://news.msue.msu.edu/news/article/whats_new_with_imprelis

Starbuy
04-17-2012, 02:54 PM
Looking forward to any updates you share. Let us know what company Dupont hired in your area to do the site visit. On my first site visit I asked the arborist if they thought the trees were recoverable and they said no. They may not offer to tell you anything, but can respond if you ask them a direct question. The more information you have direct from the arborist the more you have to speak directly with Dupont about it. I've been talking to Dupont a lot. I don't deal with the LCO at all since they don't know anything from Dupont anyhow. I've gotten more information from Dupont on my own.

Thanks for providing the link to MSU report. Another one for me to print and file into my Imprelis folder.

cindyb
04-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Star, Dupont had a contractor and a Davy employee. It was nice to recognize the Davy name as one on the list of supported tree companies and to also know they were a company that had used Imprelis.

A couple of my trees had new growth, deformed but new growth, insides are toasted and deformed. I know the root system has possible damage causing future problems.We asked how long the Imprelis stays in the soil and they didn't know.

The trees with damage that weren't on the report filed weren't inspected and will have to be on the counter offer.

I've followed guidelines and had a listed company arborist come out and do the inspection. My trees are 35-40 ft tall, confirmed height so I don't have a chart for that height.

It should be a no brainer for Dupont. I have the estimate for the tree company that they asked us to work with, I'm sure the mature trees, they know the value and I expect them to do the right thing.

I only had one tree that improved and that was my peach tree. I won't be eating any peaches though.

Also we mentioned our runoff was killing the trees next door that we bought and planted and we were lead to believe that would be our problem. Uh don't think so. So glad that I've kept up to date here on this board. My neighbors have turned in their own claim.

I guess I'm confused that the reps being sent out don't have many answers but there are only there to confirm damage and sizes.

This beauty hasn't changed except its crispy now. The other tree is my front yard Christmas tree.

cindyb
04-18-2012, 10:29 AM
2 more. I've named all my trees. This one is Pineapple. I also have witches fingers, bamboo, Charlie Brown. A group shot of my back area. I get so sick to think my pets are buried in a spot that might have to be replanted.

gqnine44
04-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Can you post a picture of this year's growth that is deformed? That is interesting and would seem to indicate that the imprelis is definatley still active in the soil/tree.

Starbuy
04-19-2012, 12:52 PM
Thank you cindyb for posting the photos! I need to post mine sometime. Mine are dead and are now just brown toasty looking trees like a forest fire came through. Depressing to look at. Would love to get rid of them, but won't until Dupont resolves this through their process or in court. So, I live with the major eye soar until then.

cindyb
04-20-2012, 12:08 PM
Trying to be patient and work with them. They didn't take measurements or pics of the 5 arborvites sp? that are now affected.

Still no offer. I bumped this thread because I see Brickman is now on the list for Ky. My tree company that did my first estimate hasn't added in the soil removal and replacement. I know that is going to be massive. I want to make sure the compensation package actually covers the work.

I don't guess anybody has the replacement value for trees above 28 ft? I have the one the home owner shared on the values on another thread.

Let me check my iphone and see if I have new pics, those might be it. My Blue Spruce look even worse.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=367638&highlight=Brickman

cindyb
04-20-2012, 12:23 PM
Pics are all the home computer. I'll get some new ones this weekend if its not pouring so it has the date and time stamp. I have to add the arbors and document the worsening damage to the Blue Spruce. The insides are gone, if they shape, I'll have a stick and the top is toasted. I'll take the ladder out. The sides look like I weed eated down the sides.

cleanponds
04-20-2012, 03:07 PM
I called Dupont yesterday (not the helpline) as I did not have an answer form my last Dec 9th guestion" Who pays for the removal of the contaminated soils and the charcoal treatment " this was for new plantings not tree replacement. I was told there are no funds for disposing of this soil.I also have 4> 35 ft plus spruces affected along with 22 other trees on my home/business property.I have not received any offer only a visit from Davey Tree and a hired Dupont rep.Does not appear this is going well even though they commented they have "many" satisfied with the offers.

cindyb
04-20-2012, 05:27 PM
I called Dupont yesterday (not the helpline) as I did not have an answer form my last Dec 9th guestion" Who pays for the removal of the contaminated soils and the charcoal treatment " this was for new plantings not tree replacement. I was told there are no funds for disposing of this soil.I also have 4> 35 ft plus spruces affected along with 22 other trees on my home/business property.I have not received any offer only a visit from Davey Tree and a hired Dupont rep.Does not appear this is going well even though they commented they have "many" satisfied with the offers.

And they wonder why people are seeking legal council? From their site:

REMOVAL AND PLANTING
• The property owner is responsible for compliance with all laws, regulations and other
applicable restrictions, including those governing excavation and utilities, removal of
trees, protection of workers, and disposal of tree and soil material.

I have 19 trees, from 8 to 40 feet tall. I didn't poison the soil, they did. I'll pay the tree company to do the work with the compensation funds IF they can find a landfill that will accept the toxic mess. I won't decide until I see the offer and make sure I'm not stuck with the soil. I'm also concerned with long term and what I'm responsible for in a few years.

I thought Dupont would accept the responsibility for their actions. Almost a year, had my site visit, trees continue to worsen, guess I'll read the first offer and jump the hoops and do a counter offer but my patience is getting thinner.

Only Good news, the longer they wait, they more time I've had to research and learn whats happening.

cindyb
04-23-2012, 07:44 PM
Just got some new pics, the wind is wild out there.

Close up of new growth on the Arborvites sp?

cindyb
04-23-2012, 07:48 PM
New growth?

cindyb
04-23-2012, 07:52 PM
I don't see much change

cindyb
04-23-2012, 07:57 PM
New growth and worsening

bailter
04-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Hi Cyndib

Thanks for the pics. They look a lot like mine. I have over 50 affected trees and shrubs. Ratings were taken last fall, but trees have continued to decline and they look a lot worse now. I am now worried even those rated 1 or 2 will not make it, and some unaffected ones will suffer. I also see the grass around the severely affected trees have turned white with what appears to be dripping lines from the dead trees. Something coming out of the dead needles? This is a post I did on another discussion:

I am a homeowner in Minnesota. We have over 50 trees and shrubs affected. New buds are just starting out in this area, but I see a continued affect on the affected trees. A few branches on spruce trees will have new buds starting to open, but the majority of the tree have none. Maybe the new buds are just delayed, but I see no new buds on tips or further in on the branches. I have one affected blue spruce bush (mound), with weak unopened buds, while another unaffected blue spruce bush has big nice looking buds. I am discouraged by this. And this doesn't even begin to address the 30 completely dead 14' trees I have to continually look at as Dupont won't let me get rid of those. I was hoping to just take my lumps, get the resolution and get on with my life. But now??????????? I have not seen the resolution proposal yet, but from what I hear I will also be disappointed with that. I would also like the ABC link

cindyb
04-24-2012, 04:16 PM
I bookmarked that link, let me find you.

I see Dupont, even with Imprelis, has turned a profit

http://abcnews.go.com/search?searchtext=Imprelis

cindyb
04-24-2012, 04:21 PM
Here's the ABC story

http://www.wisn.com/Landscaper-Blames-Tree-Deaths-On-Banned-Weed-Killer/-/9374034/10934690/-/v17rvjz/-/index.html

cindyb
04-24-2012, 04:29 PM
This part just blows me away.

Excluding a one-time pretax charge of $50 million for claims related to its weed killer Imprelis, DuPont says it earned $1.61 a share for the quarter.

Analysts, who typically exclude one-time charges, expected $1.55 per share, according to a poll by FactSet.

Federal environmental regulators ordered DuPont to halt sales of Imprelis last year because of reports of damage to trees, particularly evergreens, which resulted in several lawsuits against the company. DuPont said Thursday that it has charged a total of $225 million for Imprelis claims as of March 31, and that it believes total charges could range as high as $575 million. The company intends to seek recovery from insurance carriers for costs exceeding $100 million.

bailter
04-25-2012, 04:27 PM
It's all about the bottom line. Doesn't matter what you do as long as you can still make a profit (here's where the insurance kicks in), and the investors (stock price) still likes the company. And investors usually just see the bottom line profits vs. expected profits.

Just finished videoing the damage again. But it's little too sunny today and will wait for a cloudier day to do it again. I have taken pictures and videos one month after application, 3 months after application, and am doing so again almost 12 months after application. I'm sure if I ever get the proposal I will have to reject it as many of the 1 and 2 rankings are now more like 3 and even 4. Need to keep it documented in case we have to go the lawsuit route (I hope not)

cleanponds
04-26-2012, 03:02 PM
Planted into Imprelis soil last November with 9 10ft Dawn Redwood trees. Used the current planting guidelines with one ft overdig, new backfill and sprayed rootball and hole with activated charcoal. Today I see every tree has dying and twisted foliage.The soil that was from the dig is piled up and only grows quackgrass and canada thistle.I believe the reason overdigging wont work is because the hole still presents a path of lessor resistance for ground or subsurface water to go to which has Imprelis in it. Have contacted Dupont whom I really believe plans on doing little to nothing. Made another contact to Ohio Dept of Ag. Ive stopped all planting for the forseeable future on our 10 acre home/business site.

Starbuy
04-26-2012, 05:50 PM
Planted into Imprelis soil last November with 9 10ft Dawn Redwood trees. Used the current planting guidelines with one ft overdig, new backfill and sprayed rootball and hole with activated charcoal. Today I see every tree has dying and twisted foliage.The soil that was from the dig is piled up and only grows quackgrass and canada thistle.I believe the reason overdigging wont work is because the hole still presents a path of lessor resistance for ground or subsurface water to go to which has Imprelis in it. Have contacted Dupont whom I really believe plans on doing little to nothing. Made another contact to Ohio Dept of Ag. Ive stopped all planting for the forseeable future on our 10 acre home/business site.

This is what I'm hearing more about and it is alarming! No wonder Dupont rep suggested to me to just grind the stumps and leave it. Unbelievable. They know they've got serious enviromental catastrophe on their hands. BTW, the insurance they can claim will only cover a max of $75 to $100 mil. Their own estimates are growing daily the longer this goes on and is in the range of $600 mil to $2 Billion in damages. If they lowball more of us in their process and more leave to go the court route Dupont stockholders will be footing a much bigger chunk. You notice in their earnings report they report ER and exclude Imprelis damage as a seperate item.

If we can never plant actual trees in these places our privacy is impacted, not just the look of our landscape. This is going to be costly for them. So sad. They are reviewing counter offers. They do realize tree damage can worsen from the last site visit and you can reject the first offer and send them the updated damage for another review. Time consuming, but add that also to your figures for proper compensation. They know if it goes to court the figure you have will at the very least triples when it goes to trial. I'm still willing to go the cheaper route for them if the offer is reasonable. We'll see.

jconley
04-27-2012, 01:29 AM
I am still waiting to hear anything from Dupont. The only contact I have had is the letters they sent me at the end of last year. I called their info number and was told my claim was in review. My yard looks like a toxic waste site with over 20 dead 15-20 ft trees. I would have thought they would have been much more proactive if they hoped to settle out of court. I worry now about the fire hazard these dead trees present.
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bailter
04-27-2012, 12:13 PM
Does anyone know what is involved in rejecting a Dupont proposal? Such as how long dupont will have to reply to your rejection. I know my trees have SIGNIFICANTLY declined since they were rated last fall, but after waiting this long, I don't want to wait that long again. Is there anything in the proposal (for those of you lucky enough to have gotten one) that outlines what is required of both you and dupont for a rejection and new proposal? Any experience from anyone?

Starbuy
04-27-2012, 03:21 PM
I am still waiting to hear anything from Dupont. The only contact I have had is the letters they sent me at the end of last year. I called their info number and was told my claim was in review. My yard looks like a toxic waste site with over 20 dead 15-20 ft trees. I would have thought they would have been much more proactive if they hoped to settle out of court. I worry now about the fire hazard these dead trees present.
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Oceola Township in Michigan received their Dupont offer for $92,000 for 9 trees. The board is still determining if they will accept the offer or counter it. http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20120425/NEWS01/204250306/Oceola-eyes-92K-settlement?odyssey=nav%7Chead

So, your 20 should certainly see a larger first offer. They seem to be going by size more than type, since a large variety of evergreens are close to the same price from nurseries per foot. I'm hearing initial offers of between $3000 to over $10,000 per tree (includes replacement and warranty for only until 2013). According to Oceola that offer was in addition to removal cost, which was not specified in the report. Offers obviously can be much larger if the ground slopes into the damaged trees since removing just the soil around the dead tree may not be enough since the adjacent ground can still have Imprelis in it for over a year and can migrate into the slope. I've been warned it may be years before I can replant.

jconley
04-27-2012, 07:04 PM
I will just feel better once I have entered into some type of negotiations with them, though I wonder as bailter brings up; is this whole process going to be a drug out affair or once it's your turn will you be able to actually deal with a person who can make a deal.
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jconley
04-27-2012, 07:14 PM
I don't think Dupont is handling this very well at all, a homeowner, as in my case, who would hire a lawn service to take care of their yard, with the added expense that entails, probably cares a great deal how their yard/home looks. I know it grates me every time I pull in the driveway and the longer it drags out, the madder I get.
Posted via Mobile Device

bailter
04-27-2012, 07:48 PM
I definitely agree with your feelings. Looking at all these dead and dying trees that happened through no fault of my own, and to have the guilty party just drag out the restitution forever..............and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it. The lawn service says be patient (I have been for almost a year), and Dupont says "we're so sorry about that" or "I can certainly understand that" (their call center must sit with a list of stock answers for any comment made by the caller). And then everything I hear is the proposal will be way to low, and we may not be even able to replant without killing the new trees. Maybe we need more TV interviews as that seems to be the only thing that Dupont is concerned with.

cindyb
04-27-2012, 11:45 PM
I definitely agree with your feelings. Looking at all these dead and dying trees that happened through no fault of my own, and to have the guilty party just drag out the restitution forever..............and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it. The lawn service says be patient (I have been for almost a year), and Dupont says "we're so sorry about that" or "I can certainly understand that" (their call center must sit with a list of stock answers for any comment made by the caller). And then everything I hear is the proposal will be way to low, and we may not be even able to replant without killing the new trees. Maybe we need more TV interviews as that seems to be the only thing that Dupont is concerned with.

Their call center is manned by a company that was hired to take phone calls. I called and said I wanted to talk to somebody from Dupont and the lady said they could email them but they didn't have a number.

I looked up Dupont and started dialing until I found a real person.

I had a beloved cat die this past weekend. My other pets that have passed are buried beneath a couple trees in the backyard. Trees that are dead and will have to be dug up. Imagine knowing that and then not having a place to put your baby. I chose cremation until she has a final resting place.

I called and finally got someone in customer care and someone in Ky.
The number is at work, I'll be happy to share when I get back Monday.

jconley
04-28-2012, 10:11 AM
That would be great
Posted via Mobile Device

cindyb
04-29-2012, 10:39 PM
https://treedamageinfo.com/faq.html

cindyb
04-30-2012, 04:46 PM
I spoke with Susan Customer Satisfaction

jconley
04-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Thank you, I will give Susan a call.
Posted via Mobile Device

bailter
05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
Do any of you have maple trees in the affected area. Ours look OK, except for the first year ever they have put on a lot of the samara seeds. I have been told this can happen when a tree is under stress. Not sure if the imprelis caused this or not. Just wondering if anyone else has observed this?

cindyb
05-02-2012, 03:14 PM
I'm a little confused, planting instructions were changed on replacing trees. As of April 26th, I don't see anything about activated charcoal? Did I miss something?

http://www.imprelis-facts.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Guidelines-for-Replanting-Trees1.pdf

cleanponds
05-02-2012, 04:13 PM
I talked to Dupont yesterday about this Cindy a Steve Williams 901-746-6026 and he stated that the planting guidelines were just changed. No charcoal needed and no overdig.I would not plant without the old guideline if the trees have runoff towards them.Also stated soil test levels were all very low for Imprelis at this point. He then states that for some trees partially affected the ones pruned last year are looking much much better and others have completely defoliated.Pruning however was not suggested for any Imprelis affected trees last year.

cindyb
05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Interesting. And testing confirmed? It wasn't very clear on the removal/replacement of tainted soil. Did he mention that?

If my trees are pruned, I'll have bald sticks. Some new growth but its deformed.

Starbuy
05-04-2012, 03:06 PM
Do any of you have maple trees in the affected area. Ours look OK, except for the first year ever they have put on a lot of the samara seeds. I have been told this can happen when a tree is under stress. Not sure if the imprelis caused this or not. Just wondering if anyone else has observed this?

What state are you from? Here in NE Ohio, my Maples are also stressed and shedded a LOT of seeds which as you know is very annoying. But, this may have resulted from the warm March we had followed by cold in April which threw things out of cycle. I HOPE it isn't from more Imprelis migration from my neighbors property which had Imprelis used on it. It already killed 16 of mine near the border. At this point, looks weather related here. But, if you had Imprelis applied anywhere near your maples, watch very closely. It's been surprising what damage has been caused by this chemical to different trees including maples and even lilacs. If you had an unusually warm early spring followed by cold that could have stressed the upper areas of the tree.

bailter
05-06-2012, 04:51 PM
I think you are right. A lot of the maples in the neighborhood that have not had any imprelis are also sending out tons of seeds. I am from Minnesota. It's been a wild ride weatherwise here. A lot of snow two winters ago, followed by a normal summer but a very dry fall and a winter without hardly any snow. Then an early spring but no rain in March and April, but now lots of rain in May. The only thing consistent in Minnesota is it's inconsistency.

I have had all kinds of spruce die, arborvitae, stone pine, red pine, and white pine. No deciduous trees thank heaven.

No Dupont proposal yet. I have been meeting with tree suppliers to find out what replacements will cost so I have ammunition when it does finally arrive. I am probably going to have to get smaller B&B trees to replace larger ones so that I don't completely destroy my lawn.


What state are you from? Here in NE Ohio, my Maples are also stressed and shedded a LOT of seeds which as you know is very annoying. But, this may have resulted from the warm March we had followed by cold in April which threw things out of cycle. I HOPE it isn't from more Imprelis migration from my neighbors property which had Imprelis used on it. It already killed 16 of mine near the border. At this point, looks weather related here. But, if you had Imprelis applied anywhere near your maples, watch very closely. It's been surprising what damage has been caused by this chemical to different trees including maples and even lilacs. If you had an unusually warm early spring followed by cold that could have stressed the upper areas of the tree.

Starbuy
05-06-2012, 10:18 PM
My neighbor did have a couple deciduos trees die from Imprelis, but the damaged showed up last year. they are toast. Completely dead. We have not seen any improvement with any of the shrubs, evergreens or dec. trees in our area since the Imprelis damage last year. i think we should start seeing a lot of Dupont offers being sent out soon since they are seeing no improvement in the Michigan, Ohio, Penn areas. they were hoping by this time they'd see some improvement in some which would have lessened their compensation amounts, but they send out offers quickly in hopes some homeowners will be quick to accept while they think some of their least damaged ones might get treated for improvement. watch all the offers start coming in this month and no later than June. Once the dry season hits everything that had a little hope will be toast.

cindyb
05-06-2012, 10:23 PM
Some of mine are putting out some new growth, deformed new growth.

I'm watching my tame blackberries. Blooming but no berries. :( Never happened before. I make blackberry jam and blackberry wine and brandy. Gonna be upset if they are affected.

cindyb
05-07-2012, 12:17 PM
Oceola Township in Michigan received their Dupont offer for $92,000 for 9 trees. The board is still determining if they will accept the offer or counter it. http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20120425/NEWS01/204250306/Oceola-eyes-92K-settlement?odyssey=nav%7Chead

So, your 20 should certainly see a larger first offer. They seem to be going by size more than type, since a large variety of evergreens are close to the same price from nurseries per foot. I'm hearing initial offers of between $3000 to over $10,000 per tree (includes replacement and warranty for only until 2013). According to Oceola that offer was in addition to removal cost, which was not specified in the report. Offers obviously can be much larger if the ground slopes into the damaged trees since removing just the soil around the dead tree may not be enough since the adjacent ground can still have Imprelis in it for over a year and can migrate into the slope. I've been warned it may be years before I can replant.

Wondering if they accepted?

bailter
05-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I am see really non uniform growth on the lesser affected trees. Some branches have nice lush new buds, while other branches have a few weak buds, and others have none. Maybe the ones with none are just delayed, but I am fearful that the tree will have really irregular growth. This is on the spruce trees, even ones that were rated 1. Interestingly enough, some of the fir trees that were rated 3 and 4 and had the whole top dead and most of the rest stunted, has new buds all over the place even in the nearly dead areas. Really doesn't make much sense to me.

Does anyone have any idea if Dupont has stated how long they will have to respond to a rejection of their original proposal?

My neighbor did have a couple deciduos trees die from Imprelis, but the damaged showed up last year. they are toast. Completely dead. We have not seen any improvement with any of the shrubs, evergreens or dec. trees in our area since the Imprelis damage last year. i think we should start seeing a lot of Dupont offers being sent out soon since they are seeing no improvement in the Michigan, Ohio, Penn areas. they were hoping by this time they'd see some improvement in some which would have lessened their compensation amounts, but they send out offers quickly in hopes some homeowners will be quick to accept while they think some of their least damaged ones might get treated for improvement. watch all the offers start coming in this month and no later than June. Once the dry season hits everything that had a little hope will be toast.

cindyb
05-07-2012, 04:04 PM
Does anyone know what is involved in rejecting a Dupont proposal? Such as how long dupont will have to reply to your rejection. I know my trees have SIGNIFICANTLY declined since they were rated last fall, but after waiting this long, I don't want to wait that long again. Is there anything in the proposal (for those of you lucky enough to have gotten one) that outlines what is required of both you and dupont for a rejection and new proposal? Any experience from anyone?
Wondering if thats what they want, for you just to give in
I don't think Dupont is handling this very well at all, a homeowner, as in my case, who would hire a lawn service to take care of their yard, with the added expense that entails, probably cares a great deal how their yard/home looks. I know it grates me every time I pull in the driveway and the longer it drags out, the madder I get.
Posted via Mobile DeviceYou aren't alone. My husband won't even look at the yard. All the time and care and one spray and our trees are toasted and deformed

I definitely agree with your feelings. Looking at all these dead and dying trees that happened through no fault of my own, and to have the guilty party just drag out the restitution forever..............and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it. The lawn service says be patient (I have been for almost a year), and Dupont says "we're so sorry about that" or "I can certainly understand that" (their call center must sit with a list of stock answers for any comment made by the caller). And then everything I hear is the proposal will be way to low, and we may not be even able to replant without killing the new trees. Maybe we need more TV interviews as that seems to be the only thing that Dupont is concerned with.

I haven't seen that many claims or press for Kentucky so you'd think they could zip right through ours. Apparently not.

Starbuy
05-07-2012, 04:30 PM
When I asked Dupont rep if rejecting their offer meant a 'take it or leave it' move, they said "No it is not take it or leave it, we understand there may be other factors and changed conditions that the homeowner can specify in their rejection letter that will be reviewed." And just like with the first offer they can't give a timeframe. For those with just 1 tree and small trees/shrubs in the claim they may not wish to wait, but for those of us with much more to lose it will be worth it to go through the second review, in my opinion, if the first offer is junk. We're talking about thousands of dollars on the line. And, if that doesn't work or the first offer is insulting then I'll just turn it over to a law firm and file a seperate case. You don't have to file in the class action. The individual cases, although being first under same district judge , once you reject the settlement your case moves back to state of origin. I suggest those in Ohio, which has very strong laws protecting landscape, consult a good attorney if the direct offer in this process is low (I did NOT say to hire an attorney before you're finished with the claims process). You also need estimates for ALL the work and replacement for size at time of planting if it's to match other trees/shrubs that were undamaged. Also, don't forget to include in your rejection letter (if you reject) any money you put into the care of the killed trees that is now wasted. It's amazing when I added up all the treatments I paid for over the years to help these grow, fertilizer, watering, insect control, now all wasted. Dupont owes me that too. It's all in my losses that they must compensate for.

Starbuy
05-07-2012, 05:12 PM
I definitely agree with your feelings. Looking at all these dead and dying trees that happened through no fault of my own, and to have the guilty party just drag out the restitution forever..............and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it. The lawn service says be patient (I have been for almost a year), and Dupont says "we're so sorry about that" or "I can certainly understand that" (their call center must sit with a list of stock answers for any comment made by the caller). And then everything I hear is the proposal will be way to low, and we may not be even able to replant without killing the new trees. Maybe we need more TV interviews as that seems to be the only thing that Dupont is concerned with.

Dupont is so big worldwide I don't think they are motivated to do anything out of feeling any threat from TV exposure or even a letter from your attorney. They've dealt with wrongful death cases (humans) and other tragedies and have lawyers out the wazoo. But, individual human beings work there and there are Dupont employees, I believe, who wish to right this wrong. At this point I'll give them the chance through this process they've set up and will continue to be friendly to whomever I speak to concerning my case. Not every company is evil, not every rep is just thinking about the company's bottom line. They have billions and billions in cash and their product hurt some of their very own shareholders' properties. I'll give them a chance to properly compensate me, all the while I continue to add to my documentation the continued suffering this has caused my property, my family and neighborhood in case I have to show everything to a jury. I will update everyone if I receive a proper letter and the outcome if able to. We'll get through this. Be patient.

cindyb
05-08-2012, 11:53 AM
I'll give them a chance to properly compensate me, all the while I continue to add to my documentation the continued suffering this has caused my property, my family and neighborhood in case I have to show everything to a jury. I will update everyone if I receive a proper letter and the outcome if able to. We'll get through this. Be patient.

How long ago did they do your site visit? My trees started dying and deforming in May of 2011.

I thought maybe they were doing the smaller claims first but my LCO only had 1 tree, 3 claims total.

Starbuy
05-08-2012, 01:32 PM
How long ago did they do your site visit? My trees started dying and deforming in May of 2011.

I thought maybe they were doing the smaller claims first but my LCO only had 1 tree, 3 claims total.

The Imprelis app on my neighbor's lawn took place last May and we noticed damage to my property in about a month or so after. I had my first official site visit by Stericyle and Davey Tree (hired by Dupont) in September then a second site visit in late October showing continued death. Been receiving the continued "it's in review" since December.

Also, just heard from a journalist that I contacted that the Oceola Township officials that received the lowball offer from Dupont for their golf course trees have not yet decided whether they'll accept it or reject it and reply with their demands.

Starbuy
05-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Another interesting discussion going on from growers concerned about Imprelis in free city mulch and also a mention of a golf course that was offered $1 million from Dupont if they don't go to court (part of the direct resolution process), but nothing on whether the golf course felt that was sufficient for the devastation they suffered from Imprelis. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22211

cindyb
05-08-2012, 04:26 PM
The Imprelis app on my neighbor's lawn took place last May and we noticed damage to my property in about a month or so after. I had my first official site visit by Stericyle and Davey Tree (hired by Dupont) in September then a second site visit in late October showing continued death. Been receiving the continued "it's in review" since December.

Also, just heard from a journalist that I contacted that the Oceola Township officials that received the lowball offer from Dupont for their golf course trees have not yet decided whether they'll accept it or reject it and reply with their demands. Thats the 9 trees for $92,000? How big are the trees? I read they were meeting but not about the settlement.

Another interesting discussion going on from growers concerned about Imprelis in free city mulch and also a mention of a golf course that was offered $1 million from Dupont if they don't go to court (part of the direct resolution process), but nothing on whether the golf course felt that was sufficient for the devastation they suffered from Imprelis. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22211

So the $92,000 has jumped to $1, by next week, they'll be reporting $2 million. :confused: Unless its another golf course in Michigan, I don't think they have their information right.

I think I'm gonna skip my garden this year, first time. I just don't feel comfortable planting. Hoping my peach tree and blackberries make it.

Starbuy
05-09-2012, 12:44 PM
The golf course mentioned in that other forum is not the same course that was offered $92,000 by Dupont for their 9 damaged trees. There are a lot of courses affected including Augusta National where the Masters is played in Georgia. They even hired Hollywood set designers to hide the damaged trees for the big TV event. That's going to cost Dupont for sure.

cindyb
05-09-2012, 05:02 PM
Oh wow, I wouldn't think a million would touch it, will look for it.

Wondering in the meantime, have you checked in with your state EPA for updates?

Starbuy
05-10-2012, 02:55 PM
Wondering in the meantime, have you checked in with your state EPA for updates?

I'm afraid of the next step to hurt my property value and that would be an EPA "branding" on my property kind of like some counties that brand meth houses which in turn tank the value and surrounding homes. EPA also bares some of the responsibility for allowing Imprelis on the market. They are not looking out for me. EPA's investigation on the longterm affects on soil are ongoing and I smell trouble. Dupont is going to have to pay big time in compensation for this disaster and any future problems I may face from EPA and how my property has to be dealt with and subsequent sale. What next, a form homesellers might have to present to a buyer stating possible longterm landscape affects due to Imprelis? Some counties in Ohio already do that kind of stuff with other things. We'll see what kind of offer comes from Dupont, but if it doesn't include my right to be compensated for ALL and ANY future financial obligations regarding Imprelis damage to my property that may be imposed upon me by local, county, state government mandates or EPA then I'll be lawyered up. Already have 2 law firms ready and waiting for my go ahead and hire. Still hoping it doesn't come to that. Collecting any and all EPA and university studies to be ready for whatever.

cindyb
05-10-2012, 03:18 PM
EPA also bares some of the responsibility for allowing Imprelis on the market. They are not looking out for me. EPA's investigation on the longterm affects on soil are ongoing and I smell trouble. Dupont is going to have to pay big time in compensation for this disaster and any future problems I may face from EPA and how my property has to be dealt with and subsequent sale. What next, a form homesellers might have to present to a buyer stating possible longterm landscape affects due to Imprelis? Some counties in Ohio already do that kind of stuff with other things. We'll see what kind of offer comes from Dupont, but if it doesn't include my right to be compensated for ALL and ANY future financial obligations regarding Imprelis damage to my property that may be imposed upon me by local, county, state government mandates or EPA then I'll be lawyered up. Already have 2 law firms ready and waiting for my go ahead and hire. Still hoping it doesn't come to that. Collecting any and all EPA and university studies to be ready for whatever.


EPA also bares some of the responsibility for allowing Imprelis on the market. Exactly and if the EPA in turn sue Dupont, I'm sure the information will be available anyway.

I called again this am to Dupont. My blackberries are blooming and dropping the berries before they form. No fungus, no parasite, no blight but a few leaves that are odd looking. They are planted by the back row of trees that are deformed.

Won't be planting a garden no matter how much I'm reassured. Safe for food? It was supposed to be safe for trees. So much for canning and fresh veggies.

Starbuy
05-11-2012, 09:37 AM
As of May 12, 2012 this thread has well over 5000 reads even though just a handful of participants. That's okay. I'm glad there are lots of eyes reading this thread.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 10:03 AM
Took some new pics last night, this little guy seems happy. In between the 2 yards.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 10:07 AM
Trying to do something?

cindyb
05-11-2012, 11:16 AM
The original container instructions if you'd like to print before they disappear.

http://www.tennesseeturfgrassweeds.org/Lists/Home%20Page%20News/Attachments/15/Imprelis%20Specimen%20Label%20(H65717).pdf

I was looking to see if wild blackberries were on the list.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 11:19 AM
ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS

Do not apply directly to water, or to areas where
surface water is present, or to intertidal areas below the
mean high water mark. Do not contaminate water
when disposing of equipment washwaters or rinsate.

Surface water advisory:
This product may impact surface water quality due
to runoff of rain water. This is especially true for
poorly draining soils and soils with shallow ground
water. This product is classified as having high
potential for reaching surface water via runoff for
several months after application. A level, wellmaintained
vegetative buffer strip between areas to
which this product is applied and surface water
features such as ponds, streams, and springs will
reduce the potential loading of aminocyclopyrachlor
from runoff water and sediment. Runoff of
this product will be reduced by avoiding applications
when rainfall is forecasted to occur within 48
hours.

Groundwater advisory:
Aminocyclopyrachlor has properties and characteristics
associated with chemicals detected in ground
water. This chemical may leach into ground water
if used in areas where soils are permeable, particularly
where the water table is shallow.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 11:22 AM
This pretty much describes my trees:

IMPRELIS™ herbicide is quickly taken up by the leaves,
stems and roots of plants. IMPRELIS™ herbicide has
excellent soil activity. The effects of IMPRELIS™
herbicide may be seen on weeds from within a few hours to
a few days after application. The most noticeable symptom
is a bending and twisting of stems and leaves. Other
advanced symptoms include severe necrosis, stem thickening,
growth stunting, leaf crinkling, calloused stems and
leaf veins, leaf-cupping, and enlarged roots. Complete death
of the weeds may require four to six weeks.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 11:28 AM
never mind, I'll pm

cindyb
05-11-2012, 11:42 AM
Q. Will DuPont provide a warranty for the replacement trees? How does it work?

A. DuPont warrants against any damage to any tree on Owner’s property (including replacement trees) caused by Imprelis® until December 31, 2013, or in the case of replacement trees, until a date two years after the date of planting.

Think we'll see a compensation plan before then? Will it be extended?

Starbuy
05-11-2012, 05:06 PM
Another Dupont offer made public and this one was accepted by city officials for damage to their golf course trees:
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-settles-with-dupont-over-tree/article_77a8b8ca-2910-569a-a0c1-02ac552721c3.html

They had 5 that need replaced and received $36,000 + $4200 removal comp = $40,200 total (5 trees valued $29,000 + $5275 additional "trouble" compensation + $1169 for care of lesser damaged 4 trees + $4,200 (separate figure for removal not in news report - find out on my own). They also reported they'll receive care for new plantings and warranty. They accepted first offer, council didn't want to bother with getting better offer and just settled.

Starbuy
05-11-2012, 05:15 PM
When/if EPA takes Dupont to court the damages/fine/compensation they collect should mostly go toward all those affected by Imprelis, all the LCOs that used it and all the property owners (personal, city, private, companies, golf courses) instead of all those affected only getting what they can get from their own settlements. But, as we all know that money the EPA will get will just go into the govenment abyss instead of those who really deserve it. All those affected would use that money far better since EPA can't seem to do it's job anyhow of protecting us from these products. They failed, so they should give that money to those who got hurt from their lack of EPA proper testing. What do we have to do, sue EPA to get that money? I hope a wise judge rules in such a way to benefit the true victims.

cindyb
05-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Another Dupont offer made public and this one was accepted by city officials for damage to their golf course trees:
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-settles-with-dupont-over-tree/article_77a8b8ca-2910-569a-a0c1-02ac552721c3.html

They had 5 that need replaced and received $36,000 + $4200 removal comp = $40,200 total (5 trees valued $29,000 + $5275 additional "trouble" compensation + $1169 for care of lesser damaged 4 trees + $4,200 (separate figure for removal not in news report - find out on my own). They also reported they'll receive care for new plantings and warranty. They accepted first offer, council didn't want to bother with getting better offer and just settled. any idea of size?

When/if EPA takes Dupont to court the damages/fine/compensation they collect should mostly go toward all those affected by Imprelis, all the LCOs that used it and all the property owners (personal, city, private, companies, golf courses) instead of all those affected only getting what they can get from their own settlements. But, as we all know that money the EPA will get will just go into the govenment abyss instead of those who really deserve it. All those affected would use that money far better since EPA can't seem to do it's job anyhow of protecting us from these products. They failed, so they should give that money to those who got hurt from their lack of EPA proper testing. What do we have to do, sue EPA to get that money? I hope a wise judge rules in such a way to benefit the true victims. I hope so too

cindyb
05-11-2012, 10:18 PM
Reading up. Dupont knew that Imprelis hurt trees and it was still released? Guess thats why the EPA wants more info. A little late, huh.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110811/NEWS06/110811028/EPA-says-DuPont-knew-herbicide-Imprelis-would-hurt-trees-before-release

gqnine44
05-11-2012, 11:04 PM
The whole imprellis thing sucks and I really feel u for regular posters with serious damages.

The pictures cindyb posted of the new Growth that is distorting is really interesting. I Defenitley understand your anger about this product and the damage it caused through no fault of your own.

Sometimes it sounds like you are getting somewhat carried away describing your site a toxic waste dump and doubting the ability of your ground to support life ever again. I understand .why you feel that way.

I've personally spoken to Ohio state researchers who tested the product for several years and said they tried to kill trees with it and are as shocked as anyone with the problems.

Keep in mind most properties that were treated with spruce trees and all kinds of other stuff showed no damage. I sprayed hundreds of lawns and used
several gallons and to date only had damage on two properties. The trees affected on those properties need replaced but are putting on normal new
buds. Other trees in the area on other properties (not my customers) appear the same.

I sprayed areas of my lawn last fall at a heavy rate including around trees that I didn't care about with no negative side effects. Imprellis was used for an entire season in 2010 in test markets with no issue.

I know your property looks like hell and I hope you get reimbursed nicely from dupont. I just wanted to encourage you to keep your chin up, your property will recover - imprellis will not live in the soil forever. It was an unfortunate thing that happened but it isnt toxic dibilitating sludge that will forever ruin your property and everything that tries to grow there. The sun will come up tomorrow.

Starbuy
05-12-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm glad you're feeling optimistic. I wish the Dupont rep I spoke to was as optimistic about the soil at my property, but they did not have confidence that I would be successful in planting any evergreen in the same privacy hedge area due to the satuation and longevity of Imprelis in my particular case. Could be that the dissipation for my soil is constricted due to hardscape next to it, but not sure. Seems the stuff, which migrated from neighbors uphill lawn had no place to go but into the tree roots. dupont actually recommended I not plant and even had the gall to suggest I just grind down the stumps and leave it be, which would ruin my property privacy. My neighborhood does not allow privacy fences, only iron fences or for privacy, tall evergreens. Still no weeds growing in the lawn or in tree beds. Amazingly affective weed preventer. Too bad it kills trees in certain landscape conditions.

rosewater
05-12-2012, 11:58 AM
Have written two letters addressed to Ellen Kullman and two Dupont reps that have been quoted in newspaper articles. Received a response for both from Dupont rep. First letter requested that two dead 45' Norway Spruce be removed immediately because of proximity to house. Davey Tree was out in a week and took care of it but I still have large roots littering the area. Second letter addressed my loss of privacy on the east side of my house and the poor condition my Balsam Fir and Colorado were in and asked what was the status of my claim. I am appalled and disgusted by the way Dupont has handled this: very little info to the LCO's and homeowners. I should have a comp pkg by the end of May, but I have gotten quotes on cleaning up the area, readying the soil to plant, tree replacements etc but will still line up a lawyer because I believe I will need one. I expect nothing less than fairness and honesty from Dupont but they seem to be missing the mark.

rosewater
05-12-2012, 03:46 PM
starbuy- where are you located and I would be interested in knowing who your Dupont contact its. thanks

Starbuy
05-12-2012, 07:55 PM
At this point I won't provide names publically of anyone I've spoken to at Dupont. It's understandable when a big corporation with lots of employees and subcontracted workers have differing views about issues and then some try to persecute anyone who they think is out of line in what they might say to those outside, otherwise known as media or victims of damage from their product. If the person asking me for their name works for Dupont, you can review the audio recordings of calls to check to see if employees are staying 'in line'. But, there are some good people working there that really do want to see victims treated fairly and I hope others won't hinder that process or openess in allowing information to be shared. When companies do try to shut mouths on these type of things it usually brings the wrath of government agencies at some point.

cindyb
05-12-2012, 10:33 PM
I sprayed areas of my lawn last fall at a heavy rate including around trees that I didn't care about with no negative side effects. Imprellis was used for an entire season in 2010 in test markets with no issue.

I know your property looks like hell and I hope you get reimbursed nicely from dupont. I just wanted to encourage you to keep your chin up, your property will recover - imprellis will not live in the soil forever. It was an unfortunate thing that happened but it isnt toxic dibilitating sludge that will forever ruin your property and everything that tries to grow there. The sun will come up tomorrow. We had one treatment, I'm sure at the price per gallon, it wasn't over dosed. Toxic diblitating sludge, I like that. My weeds are growing nicely so I guess there might be hope.

Dupont can't tell us how long it'll stay in the soil, do you have an insider? I walked out tonight and looked and mine and the neighbors, my run off has deformed and is killing theirs, they didn't want their backyard treated because of their dogs.

I'm upset over the trees but the blackberry bushes I thought were going to slide through this mess. Nope, flowers bloom and then the berry falls off and it gets crunchy.

Have written two letters addressed to Ellen Kullman and two Dupont reps that have been quoted in newspaper articles. Received a response for both from Dupont rep. First letter requested that two dead 45' Norway Spruce be removed immediately because of proximity to house. Davey Tree was out in a week and took care of it but I still have large roots littering the area. Second letter addressed my loss of privacy on the east side of my house and the poor condition my Balsam Fir and Colorado were in and asked what was the status of my claim. I am appalled and disgusted by the way Dupont has handled this: very little info to the LCO's and homeowners. I should have a comp pkg by the end of May, but I have gotten quotes on cleaning up the area, readying the soil to plant, tree replacements etc but will still line up a lawyer because I believe I will need one. I expect nothing less than fairness and honesty from Dupont but they seem to be missing the mark.

I'm gonna try to work with Dupont on a settlement, the attorneys want 33% not to mention additional charges. We've done all the work already but if I can't get a settlement that I agree with, I'll have to consider it. We'll see. I hate that its taken this long but in a way its been to my benefit to see what else is affected and dying.

cindyb
05-12-2012, 10:44 PM
The $92,000 offer of 9 trees, trees were 49 ft tall.

http://whmi.com/news/article/14313

Settlement Deal Proposed For Dead Spruce Trees At Chemung Hills

April 25, 2012

4/25/12 - Oceola Township officials are expressing some concerns with a proposed settlement offer from a chemical company responsible for the deaths of trees at the Chemung Hills golf course. The course is owned by the township but operated by a management company, which discovered that nine spruce trees standing around 49 feet tall were dying from use of the chemical Imprelis, which is used to kill broad leaf weeds such as dandelions and clover. Four other spruce trees have showed signs of problems but officials believe those can possibly be saved. Township Supervisor Bill Bamber tells WHMI the chemical company DuPont has certified that the chemical was to blame but maintains it didn’t know it would kill the trees. DuPont has since offered the township a settlement, which Bamber says they are still reviewing with legal counsel. DuPont has offered to remove the trees at their own cost as well as give the township $92,000 to plant and maintain replacement trees. However, Bamber says a clause in the contract stipulates that when the township is paid, the company would be relieved of additional liability, other than a very limited clause for damage of the replaced trees. Bamber says they are still in discussions with legal counsel about the proposed settlement but have concerns because they are not familiar with the chemical and in fact, the company wasn’t even familiar with it because they didn’t know it killed spruce trees. He says they don’t know if they necessarily want to plant trees again in the same spots but also have concerns about residual issues with the chemical that could possibly affect new trees. Bamber says the chemical was taken off the market last August but it was also sprayed on many yards and residential lawns by companies, resulting in dead spruce trees all over the Midwest. The Chemung Hills golf course totals 149 acres and Bamber says once the damaged trees are gone, no one should know the difference. The matter is expected to be a topic of discussion when the township board meets next on May 3rd. (JM)

Starbuy
05-13-2012, 01:51 PM
I don't blame those officials who are troubled by the low offer by Dupont. Think about the TRUE cost/value of those trees. Just try to find a landscape professional who will dig nursery stock 49' tall pine, crane it onto a semi bed bring it to the location, remove the existing 49' tall pine and disgard it, remove and treat the affected soil, then use a crane to plant the new 49' tall pine, all for $10,000. Ain't gonna happen. It does not matter whether the property owner will or will not replace the tree, the lost value is the same in regard to the law. Plus, the fact the property owner will be responsible for any further soil problems the EPA may deem a problem, since agreeing to Dupont's deal means relinquishing them from further responsiblity. That's why so many are finding Dupont's offer woefully low for the true value of loss and responsibility. A lot for us to consider.

cindyb
05-13-2012, 08:37 PM
I don't blame those officials who are troubled by the low offer by Dupont. Think about the TRUE cost/value of those trees. Just try to find a landscape professional who will dig nursery stock 49' tall pine, crane it onto a semi bed bring it to the location, remove the existing 49' tall pine and disgard it, remove and treat the affected soil, then use a crane to plant the new 49' tall pine, all for $10,000. Ain't gonna happen. It does not matter whether the property owner will or will not replace the tree, the lost value is the same in regard to the law. Plus, the fact the property owner will be responsible for any further soil problems the EPA may deem a problem, since agreeing to Dupont's deal means relinquishing them from further responsiblity. That's why so many are finding Dupont's offer woefully low for the true value of loss and responsibility. A lot for us to consider.

I have priced replacement trees the size of mine, moving, I think they could only do 2 or 3 per truck and then to get something that size to grown after transplanting is iffy at best.

The future soil problems scares me.

Lawnguy8478
05-15-2012, 03:22 PM
Dupont said the were taking care of the removal. It is very easy to replace 9 45 ft spruces for 93k. Hell they will have plenty of money left over to be honest.

By the way, I have no fear at all that the soil needs to be treated. Just using common sense, Imprelis absolutley knocked out violets and ground ivy last year. Take a walk around your neighborhoods and look at all the pretty purple flowers this year. That leads me to believe it is flushed from the soils.

Lawnguy8478
05-15-2012, 04:01 PM
Let me rephrase that last comment. I have no fear(with how we applied it). Thankfully we used the lowest dosage possible on a spot treatment only basis.

Starbuy
05-15-2012, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Lawnguy8478;4412626]Dupont said the were taking care of the removal. It is very easy to replace 9 45 ft spruces for 93k. QUOTE]

If you know a nursery that sells 45+ foot tall spruces, delivers, removes old, replants new, re-landscapes what the crane destroys for under that amount (since min. 15% of that 93k is for compensation for time/trouble) please PM me. I'm in Ohio. Thanks.

Also, you were smart to just use Imprelis to spot treat. My neighbor's lawn was totally sprayed. His lawn still looks fantastic and has no weeds. The beds where my trees died are also still weed free. Nothing can grow there yet. Seems each property has it's own satuation and thus dispertion rate. I'll certainly have to wait before I let anyone attempt to replant.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 10:00 AM
So $80,000 is for the 9 trees and care and $12,000 is the 15% time and trouble?

So the real value of the 49 ft trees at $8889.00 each?

So much is being changed on the dupont site. There is nothing about replacing the soil now and nothing about activated charcoal.
http://www.imprelis-facts.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Guidelines-for-Replanting-Trees1.pdf

Originally said replace soil and use activated charcoal and tree and soil had to go to approved landfill? I'd like to know more about Dupont removing the trees and no I haven't seen a compensation offer yet so I don't have details. Is the removal money an additional payment w/out the 15%. Anybody have an offer with details? Are they digging up the trees, cutting them and grinding the stump? Filling in the hole with topsoil? So many questions.

now:

The property owner should ensure adherence to best management practices consistent with the geographic area in which it is performing this work, taking into account any unique environmental and climate conditions, and any state, regional or local ordinances.

Best management practices? Who sets those, the EPA or Dupont.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 11:51 AM
Hi Cindy. Well this thread has around 6000 views as of now, yet so few of us participating but it's probably because we all seem to be in the same boat waiting on Dupont.

I've really tried to dig deep into getting answers and have contacted some city officials directly that I know have received offers. Here's some information about compensation for the removal part of the proposal. One city that had 5 tree to be removed told me that Dupont itemized the removal cost for them at $4200 and that is not included in the total that the newspaper reported nor part of their settlement compensation because Dupont offered to hire the contractor at that price. In speaking with Dupont, I told them I will reject that kind of arrangement since I will be the one in charge of who comes onto my property to do the removal and I want that part of the compensation included in with the rest. They agreed and have that noted in the account. Now it will be up to me to find someone who will do it at the price they fix as if they were contracting a third party. Property owners have the last say in how they want the removal to be done and whether that compensation goes directly to you or Dupont pays someone. Dupont is trying to lean everyone toward them hiring the workers based on option 1 that LCO's had, but that is not what I prefer and they have noted it in my claim notes in their system. In the packet most people will receive, it will spell out that Dupont takes care of removal and therefore you won't see that compensation added (but the value is shown for your information). They said those who don't accept that will have to reject the offer and state reasons and detail that you want compensated directly, if that's what you choose, for the removal so you will contract that work instead of them paying the thrid party. But, I had them note my demand before I receive the offer. Hopefully the claims person follows through on that otherwise I will automatically reject it for sure. I want full control over what company comes onto my property. I will not allow the LCO, who chose option 1, to do any work since I don't trust them (I'm not one of their customers anyhow). That LCO really just wanted in on getting some money from this and I understand that, but I'm putting that to a stop going forward. They got their $500 for sending in the claim (even though it had already been done by Stericyle first).

The city I spoke to feels the same way and wants the tree removal compensation directly paid to them instead of Dupont sending it to a third party. They had the same reservations about that when they examined the 15 page legal settlement/resolution offer from Dupont. They are taking that up with the board for a decision on how to proceed.

As far as Dupont removing the info they had originally on their site about using activated charcoal, it may be because I did hear that all efforts others have had in using it had no results and if the soil was still saturated with Imprelis the activated charcoal and soil removal did not help, especially where lawns slope into the tree/shrub bed. You'd have to dig up most the lawn adjacent to the tree/shrub bed to stop that kind of migration. It seems it's going to be a long wait for some of us with sloping land before we can replant. I will be posting a couple photos soon to show at least one example of before and after Imprelis. I'm glad we have photos of all our landscape before this Imprelis devastation occured. That will certainly help me in court if it comes to that.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 12:42 PM
Thanks Star again, and for this Lawnsite board for the information. Without this board, I would have almost no information on how Dupont is handling. Not seeing alot of information in Ky, don't know if the LCO's didn't use it or something else.

They had the same reservations about that when they examined the 15 page legal settlement/resolution offer from Dupont 15 pages, guess its gonna take some time to read the fine print but they want us to accept w/out an attorney.

I'm still concerned about long time damage. Was out trimming my roses last night, they were one of my first signs that something wasn't right. My Hydrangia is coming back slowy. Still watching my blackberries. Wondering about my hardwoods and what happens later.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 01:47 PM
15 pages, guess its gonna take some time to read the fine print but they want us to accept w/out an attorney.



Where did you hear that? Attorneys can certainly be consulted about Dupont's offer and in fact city officials I've spoken to that are involved in this process are consulting their attorneys before accepting the offer. You just can't file suit and collect the settlement from the direct offer.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 01:48 PM
15 pages, guess its gonna take some time to read the fine print but they want us to accept w/out an attorney.



Where did you hear that? Attorneys can certainly be consulted about Dupont's offer and in fact city officials I've spoken to that are involved in this process are consulting their attorneys before accepting the offer. You just can't file suit and collect the settlement from the direct offer. That's my understanding and what is lawful, at least in Ohio.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 01:51 PM
Where did you hear that? Attorneys can certainly be consulted about Dupont's offer and in fact city officials I've spoken to that are involved in this process are consulting their attorneys before accepting the offer. You just can't file suit and collect the settlement from the direct offer. That's my understanding and what is lawful, at least in Ohio.

The city I spoke to feels the same way and wants the tree removal compensation directly paid to them instead of Dupont sending it to a third party. They had the same reservations about that when they examined the 15 page legal settlement/resolution offer from Dupont. They are taking that up with the board for a decision on how to proceed.

The 15 page legal settlement post is part of your post. I added the attorney part. My opinion that they want homeowners to settle w/out bringing in a lawsuit, of course its our right.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 01:54 PM
I see your getting the same error "Error connecting to mysql" and double posts.

The attorney's that I have talked to would love for me to hand it over, I'll sit down and read it myself. If I can't understand it, I may have to consult an attorney.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 02:07 PM
Yea, the site today is having issues isn't it. It's also very slow to come up due to the ad popups that have to be looked at before you access the site. Annoying.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 02:16 PM
Here's a before/after photo of just one Imprelis-killed Thuja occidentalis on my property. This is the typical destruction Imprelis has created on my property. This one was a thick, beautiful, healthy growing 14' green emerald before the Imprelis was applied to the adjacent yard. These are known as "tree of life" but now it's just a tree of death. Thanks Dupont.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 02:18 PM
OH WOW, how many treatments? We only had one to toast ours. That kinda resembles my Japanese Maple.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 02:44 PM
OH WOW, how many treatments? We only had one to toast ours. That kinda resembles my Japanese Maple.

The above photo shows what happened after just ONE application of Imprelis to my neighbor's yard. It then migrated down into my property after normal rainfall that May. His property is a couple feet higher elevation than mine. It was applied with the correct ratio according to the LCO's records back in May 2011. Amazingly strong chemical. My damage could not have been worse if you directly poured a gallon of Roundup total herbicide on top of my trees. Complete devastation.

Tree Lover
05-16-2012, 03:15 PM
Hello everyone, new to the site but have been following your thread for sometime now since our property was also sprayed last June with imprelis. We have 54 trees that have now died and are dying. We live in Ohio and have filed our claim back in August. Dupont visited our property, which is residential. We have so many trees that surround our property which is a shame they were just starting to fill in nicely and give us the privacy we wanted. we have/had all white pine and Norway spruce. We have not heard from Dupont on our settlement either. It's a shame we waited almost a year. I just wanted to thank you for all the info you have shared. Like one person said I have gained more info on this thread then on any other dupont site or speaking with their reps. I spoke with them again last Friday and they tell me our settlement is in the final stages of being written up? It's hard to watch our trees die each day, and brown, twist, break off branch by branch. Please keep the info coming and any news if you receive your settlement. I am not sure how they will handle the amount we have of 54 trees, I know our yard will never be the same. I will try to attach some pictures. Look very similar to starguys. Thank you again for all the info you all have provided.
Ohio resident.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 03:29 PM
Welcome Tree Lover and glad you're sharing with us your experience with Imprelis. It's very sad to see the death of your once beautiful landscape. You have more damage than many golf courses or cities have experienced. I'm also in Ohio. Seems many of us with extensive damage are the last to be given offers. We aren't the "easy ones" as Dupont has stated to me. Keep us up to date if you can and feel free to private message as well.

Tree Lover
05-16-2012, 03:49 PM
Thank you Starbuy. I see you are in Summit. We are not far at all. We live in Wayne County (Wooster) you also have extensive damage then? How many trees have you lost/losing? It's a shame I read that your property was due to a neighbor's spraying of Imprelis. We had ours sprayed and have no neighbors on either side of us, so luckily no others were affected. We are very concerned due to the amount of trees we have and how it will ever be fixed. Dupont has stated we have the most trees affected on a resident property in the Wayne county area. Not sure if that is why ours has taken so long or as you said because we live in Ohio. Do you think because of our TREBLE law they are being cautious to do the right thing or do you think because Ohio has had the most damage?

Tree Lover
05-16-2012, 03:55 PM
I also put these pictures together to show how the damage has increased over time from August 2011 to date.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 04:17 PM
Thank you Starbuy. I see you are in Summit. We are not far at all. We live in Wayne County (Wooster) you also have extensive damage then? How many trees have you lost/losing? It's a shame I read that your property was due to a neighbor's spraying of Imprelis. We had ours sprayed and have no neighbors on either side of us, so luckily no others were affected. We are very concerned due to the amount of trees we have and how it will ever be fixed. Dupont has stated we have the most trees affected on a resident property in the Wayne county area. Not sure if that is why ours has taken so long or as you said because we live in Ohio. Do you think because of our TREBLE law they are being cautious to do the right thing or do you think because Ohio has had the most damage?

I 'only' have 16 that need replaced which is certainly not as bad as your situation. My whole west side that is dead was also my only privacy hedge from neighbors and my wind hedge during the winter west to east gusts that cause drifting. So the impact for my property value has been depreciated. My neighborhood is very formal and everyone landscapes with pros. My property stands out bad.

I agree that Ohio has a huge amount of damage compared to other states, from what I've learned. Imprelis was heavily marketed to Ohio LCOs (Ohioans are known for wanting perfect lawns in a fanatical way) and Ohio has mixed weather. We can go quickly from lots of rain to dry spells in summer. Also, Dupont surely has to keep in mind each states laws and what it will mean if more property owners head to court in states where Dupont will be penalized the most (district court moves the separately filed cases back to the state of origin if the plaintiff reject the settlement offer at district level/class action). But according to Davey Tree reps I've spoken with in Ohio, Dupont is still lowballing some of the first offers in hoping some who are less informed about true costs will just accept it. Some condo associations are heavily relying on their LCO's to 'take care' of everything and those are the type that just have communal property and thus less personal loss so they may accept the lowball offers too (just my guess). Some cities are accepting first offers, but then not replacing trees. That doesn't help most homeowners who will want to relandscape to get back the privacy and look they had before.

cindyb
05-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Hi Tree lover, glad to have you posting but so sorry for your loss. Our back line of trees were for privacy. The farm behind sold and a subdivision was going in. So much for privacy.

I have 19 trees affected, 8 to 40 feet, most look like aliens, any new growth is deformed and the insides are empty.

My claim is supposed to be in the final stages also.

Starbuy
05-16-2012, 05:14 PM
Of course it is up to a court of law to determine if treble laws can be used in this case, but for those in Ohio wondering what the Ohio Revised Code states:

Ohio R.C. 901.51.

Such section states as follows: "No person, without privilege to do so, shall recklessly cut down, destroy, girdle, or otherwise injure a vine, bush, shrub, sapling, tree, or crop standing or growing on the land of another or upon public land. In addition, penalty provided in section 901.99 of the Revised Code, whoever violates this section is liable in treble damages for the injury caused."


Treble damages, in law, is a term that indicates that a statute permits a court to triple the amount of the actual/compensatory damages to be awarded to a prevailing plaintiff. Again, I disclose that I in no way am saying that Dupont will indeed suffer this. This is all up to the courts and each case. This is just information for those interested.

cindyb
05-17-2012, 10:17 AM
Hoping after Dupont giving us all this extra time to research that our first offer will be reasonable but that doesn't include my extra losses since the original claim. The arborvites took longer to show damage and when the Dupont came for their visit, wouldn't include them on the inspection, said we'd have to put them on the counter offer. More time to watch trees deform and more landscape be affected.

We've had plenty of time for estimates and pics of on going damage, time to watch city and golf course offers, to watch Dupont flip flop on how to plant or not to plant and to form our own opinions of if our soil is safe for planting since they don't know how long if ever, will be safe to replant.

We've had time to watch Dupont let the LCO's take the blame and then admit it was their fault, not the LCO's. We've read the university reports on damage, followed the EPA (still don't know how something so toxic was released).

More time to think about what the Imprelis is doing to the soil and water and who is responsible in the future if we sign.

My husband won't look at the trees he planted, he'll look at the offer with me when it comes and thats about it. My LCO had 3 claims and we helped with the pics and paperwork. Who would have ever guess it would take this long.

cindyb
05-17-2012, 10:42 AM
Looking at my site visit, this tree was upgraded. Not exactly sure what the growth is but its not normal, looks like an aspargus but different from the "pineapple" growth.

Starbuy
05-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Very sad photo showing the ends curled and dead on that white pine. Not a positive sign. Unlikely to recover, in my opinion, since that's exactly what Imprelis is supposed to do to weeds...stop them from growing. It affects the plant's growth hormones. Dupont thinking that conifers they rate at a #2 might survive is the same as someone giving your child a chemical that stops normal growth and then saying, "we'll help with your doctor visits for only two years and the long term deformity isn't our problem." Also, when you see damage like that on ends of pines, that is a magnate for insect infestation where they bore into the damaged tips and place their larvae which then devour the tree and multiply. That's the next killer to nail the coffin for what Dupont calls "partially damaged #1 or #2 grade". Their grading scale is that 1 or 2 might be recoverable depending on type of tree/shrub. Most people will see slow death on conifers that should have been replaced. If they do try to treat they're going to really have to use major insecticide to attempt to prevent borers. In fact, I recommend looking at the less damaged trees this spring/summer to look for insects taking advantage of the damage. Add that to the rejection letter. One thing I don't recommend anyone doing since it would be a waste is trying to help any of these damaged trees before any settlement is reached. Many already learned last year that it was a waste of money and time.

cindyb
05-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Very sad photo showing the ends curled and dead on that white pine. Not a positive sign. Unlikely to recover, in my opinion, since that's exactly what Imprelis is supposed to do to weeds...stop them from growing. It affects the plant's growth hormones. Dupont thinking that conifers they rate at a #2 might survive is the same as someone giving your child a chemical that stops normal growth and then saying, "we'll help with your doctor visits for only two years and the long term deformity isn't our problem." Also, when you see damage like that on ends of pines, that is a magnate for insect infestation where they bore into the damaged tips and place their larvae which then devour the tree and multiply. That's the next killer to nail the coffin for what Dupont calls "partially damaged #1 or #2 grade". Their grading scale is that 1 or 2 might be recoverable depending on type of tree/shrub. Most people will see slow death on conifers that should have been replaced. If they do try to treat they're going to really have to use major insecticide to attempt to prevent borers. In fact, I recommend looking at the less damaged trees this spring/summer to look for insects taking advantage of the damage. Add that to the rejection letter. One thing I don't recommend anyone doing since it would be a waste is trying to help any of these damaged trees before any settlement is reached. Many already learned last year that it was a waste of money and time.

I had some pretty healthy weeds going into spring.

I have 2 Blue Spruce's that have worsened, one is empty on the inside. A trim/shape would leave me with a burned Christmas tree.

My aborist that was on the Dupont list said they need replacing as does almost every tree I own. It is sad to have to continue to watch these beautiful trees deform and die. No insecticides will be used, they've been through enough.

I guess I need to look back at our water bills where we let the hose run continuously, moving from tree to tree when it was dry, to keep our trees from dying.

Almost afraid to fertilize my roses or anything thats not a tree, if its still in the ground, don't know what happens.

Starbuy
05-17-2012, 03:21 PM
EPA has meeting set June 18-19, 2012 for Imprelis update/discussion on “down stream” effects. Bet we'll see some resolution offers coming from Dupont before that date.

http://www.ofr.gov/(S(wnieaxujrj1lzl440yenmve2))/OFRUpload/OFRData/2012-11971_PI.pdf

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
[EPA-HQ-OPP-2012-0003; FRL-9348-6]
SFIREG Full Committee; Notice of Public Meeting
AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
ACTION: Notice.
SUMMARY: The Association of American Pesticide Control Officials (AAPCO)/State
FIFRA Issues Research and Evaluation Group (SFIREG), Full Committee will hold a 2-day meeting, beginning on June 18, 2012 and ending June 19, 2012. This notice announces the location and times for the meeting and sets forth the tentative agenda topics.
DATES: The meeting will be held on Monday, June 18, 2012 from 8:30 am to 5:00 pm and 8:30 am to 12 noon on Tuesday June 19, 2012.
This is open to the public.

Starbuy
05-17-2012, 03:28 PM
University of Minnesota Extension is recommending that we do NOT plant anything in Imprelis affected soil until at least September 2012. Here's the full update: http://blog.lib.umn.edu/efans/ygnews/2012/05/an-imprelis-update.html

Also they state:
Trees that showed damage last spring, further decline (dieback of shoots, dead needles and buds, yellowing of the tree canopy) during the 2011 growing season and/or the winter of 2011-2012, and limited or no bud-break throughout the tree crown this spring will probably continue to decline and then die. Even if these trees do not die, they will be of little or no aesthetic value in the landscape.

So, it looks like I have to look at this post-apocalyptic landscape, otherwise known as my yard, for a second summer. GRRRR!!!

cindyb
05-17-2012, 03:30 PM
11. Imprelis update/discussion on “down stream” effects of pesticides outside
control of applicator (e.g. hot compost, treated irrigation water)

Marking it on the calendar.

Having a rough day, just picked up my kitty's remains from the vet. Before the trees were poisoned, she would have been buried in a special shady spot but since those trees are dying...... Not very happy with Dupont right now.

Starbuy
05-17-2012, 03:37 PM
PHILADELPHIA - The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania judge presiding over the multidistrict Imprelis products liability litigation approved and adopted the joint proposed preservation of documents protocol in the case management order entered May 9 (In re: Imprelis Herbicide Marketing, Sales Practices & Products Liability Litigation, No. 11-2284, MDL 2284, E.D. Pa.; See 1/24/12, Page 11).

cindyb
05-17-2012, 03:41 PM
The writer's link to the Imprelis site uses old information on activated charcoal and fresh soil. She didn't have an email that I see or I'd email her that they've changed their minds.


University of Minnesota Extension is recommending that we do NOT plant anything in Imprelis affected soil until at least September 2012. Here's the full update: http://blog.lib.umn.edu/efans/ygnews/2012/05/an-imprelis-update.html

Also they state:
Trees that showed damage last spring, further decline (dieback of shoots, dead needles and buds, yellowing of the tree canopy) during the 2011 growing season and/or the winter of 2011-2012, and limited or no bud-break throughout the tree crown this spring will probably continue to decline and then die. Even if these trees do not die, they will be of little or no aesthetic value in the landscape.

So, it looks like I have to look at this post-apocalyptic landscape, otherwise known as my yard, for a second summer. GRRRR!!!

jconley
05-18-2012, 05:44 AM
As I read this forum daily and I wait to hear anything from Dupont, I have to wonder if we are missing something. Why would a company as large as Dupont announce a settlement program, gather information about each claim and then stop all communication with affected persons and stall process for months. Are they waiting for a court decision somewhere? It seems their main objective at this point is to anger and frustrate the very people they will have to negotiate a settlement with.
Posted via Mobile Device

Starbuy
05-18-2012, 03:19 PM
Dupont's Imprelis Claim Process phone system prompts have been changed this week. They no longer focus on "If you are a homeowner who's property has been affected... press 3." Instead the prompts focus on those who've either received their first offer materials and have questions or those who have claims but have not yet received the offer and have questions. This makes since because the time for sending in forms to try the direct settlement process (before heading to court) has passed. So, they must be catching up on the backlog of claims since no more are coming through. Any new claims not in the process obviously will or have filed suit.

Probably most people who had claim forms submitted last year are getting the "it's in the final stages" answer. Also, I can confirm that if you do receive an offer and they suggest they will pay a third party for removal, Dupont has stated that it is completely within the rights of property owners to reject that and demand that part of the compensation also be paid directly to the property owner so the property owner can choose who they want working on their property. I understand that if your LCO chose option 1, even though you never agreed in written to have them do any removal of trees/shrubs, you will either have to reject the offer and submit your demands and they will nix that part and all comp goes to you, or you can send in a letter stating that immediately so the claims department will hopefully see that in time and not bother wasting their time or yours with sending an offer that has a third party (the LCO) doing the removal. It's been suggested by Dupont to send that letter stating your wishes in regards to who gets the comp for removal (the LCO or you), otherwise you'll just have to reject the offer if they don't have the comp for removal in with your total that is to be paid to you. Of course, you may be rejecting the offer anyhow if trees are not categorized correctly now with more death and other cost features.

I know I will not use my neighbor's LCO for any work on my property. In fact, they never stated that they had chosen an option that included them in the money loop for the removal. I only signed for them to take more photos and send that in (2nd site visit).

Starbuy
05-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Clarification to my above comment:

"Dupont has stated that it is completely within the rights of property owners to reject that and demand that the amount of the compensation relating to tree removal also be paid directly to the property owner so the property owner can choose who they want working on their property."

cindyb
05-18-2012, 07:09 PM
Sent an email to them.

I can't believe this has taken a year.

Starbuy
05-18-2012, 07:34 PM
I have not been successful receiving any reply to emails I sent, have you? maybe I have a bad address? As far as them requesting a signed letter to make sure the first offer does not allow for any third party payments they said even though my claim notes have my demand for that I still had to send it through regular mail (which Ill of course send registered). They won't even accpet a fax.

cindyb
05-19-2012, 12:07 AM
When I email, they call my cell phone, number on file.

I'll send a certified letter Monday, do you have a certain address or just the one on the site?

bailter
05-19-2012, 11:05 AM
I completely agree. I don't understand what takes so long. It's a pretty simple computer program to take the ratings on the trees, factor in the size and species, and multiply by a established dollar amount. And they had all winter to get these into that program so once they decided the trees are not getting better, it should be as simple as pushing a button that spits out a form and mails it. But then, I'm not surprised because, after all, this is Dupont we're talking about.

As I read this forum daily and I wait to hear anything from Dupont, I have to wonder if we are missing something. Why would a company as large as Dupont announce a settlement program, gather information about each claim and then stop all communication with affected persons and stall process for months. Are they waiting for a court decision somewhere? It seems their main objective at this point is to anger and frustrate the very people they will have to negotiate a settlement with.
Posted via Mobile Device

cindyb
05-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Doesn't make sense to me, if I was at fault, I'd want to fix it. If they were worried about long term damage to soil and water, they'd include it in the offer.

cindyb
05-21-2012, 11:31 AM
I'll send a certified letter Monday, do you have a certain address or just the one on the site?

Called this am, was told since I don't have my offer yet, just to wait and include it.

cindyb
05-21-2012, 11:43 AM
Those who have accepted agreements say they are still waiting for a check from DuPont. Some have been waiting since March as they continue to look at dead trees.



http://www.freep.com/article/20120521/NEWS06/205210329/DuPont-not-sending-payments-for-trees-killed-by-Imprelis-homeowners-and-lawn-care-pros-say

cindyb
05-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Reading. So the EPA knew Dupont wasn't releasing truthful information on Teflon and sued after the fact. Where did the $16 million go? To the people affected?

http://www.ewg.org/release/epa-fines-teflon-maker-dupont-chemical-cover

More cover ups and delays, how depressing.

Starbuy
05-21-2012, 03:00 PM
Cindy, I'm glad you posted that article link about those who accepted Dupont's offer not receiving a timely check. I was about to post it, but you beat me to it. I will not not approve any offer from Dupont unless it stipulates not only proper compensation but also a deadline on when the check would be issued. They want us to approve their offer within 30 days, so it's reasonable that I require them to send the FULL payment within 30 days of receiving the approved offer from me (if I do approve that is). I don't care how many claims they have, companies are used to billing people and expecting payments in 30 days, that's normal. If we have no guarantee of a deadline for payment in full, they could make you wait a year or maybe more and we'd have no recourse since we signed that we wouldn't sue them. We've got to really watch them and if they don't make things fair then forget this whole direct resolution process. I'm not waiting 5 years for a payment. I'd rather go to court and let the law make them pay and then I'd get punitive damages as well, along with probably treble (triple) compensation.

They might as well not even send me an offer if it does not have a time limit on when they have to pay me in full if I accept the offer.

If anyone or any LCO has clients who've received an offer, please let us know if that offer had any payment date from Dupont specified or any timeframe guarantee. If they don't have that I'm surprised anyone would sign such a basically worthless settlement.

cindyb
05-21-2012, 04:10 PM
Cindy, I'm glad you posted that article link about those who accepted Dupont's offer not receiving a timely check. I was about to post it, but you beat me to it. I will not not approve any offer from Dupont unless it stipulates not only proper compensation but also a deadline on when the check would be issued. They want us to approve their offer within 30 days, so it's reasonable that I require them to send the FULL payment within 30 days of receiving the approved offer from me (if I do approve that is). I don't care how many claims they have, companies are used to billing people and expecting payments in 30 days, that's normal. If we have no guarantee of a deadline for payment in full, they could make you wait a year or maybe more and we'd have no recourse since we signed that we wouldn't sue them. We've got to really watch them and if they don't make things fair then forget this whole direct resolution process. I'm not waiting 5 years for a payment. I'd rather go to court and let the law make them pay and then I'd get punitive damages as well, along with probably treble (triple) compensation.

They might as well not even send me an offer if it does not have a time limit on when they have to pay me in full if I accept the offer.

If anyone or any LCO has clients who've received an offer, please let us know if that offer had any payment date from Dupont specified or any timeframe guarantee. If they don't have that I'm surprised anyone would sign such a basically worthless settlement.

I will not not approve any offer from Dupont unless it stipulates not only proper compensation but also a deadline on when the check would be issued. They want us to approve their offer within 30 days, so it's reasonable that I require them to send the FULL payment within 30 days of receiving the approved offer from me (if I do approve that is). Exactly, my acceptance of their offer will be 30 days and after that, it will be null and void, if I even decide now to work with them. If I get the offer in June and then have to add the additional damage in the counter offer,ties up another month for them to reply and then an additional 2 months at least for them to pay me if I agree. Seems after they get the signature and agreement, you are stuck.

I also don't care how many claims they have, they damaged our property. If you can't do your job with "x" amount of employees, hire more. Not like they didn't make a profit.

I'm not waiting 5 years for a payment. I'd rather go to court and let the law make them pay and then I'd get punitive damages as well, along with probably treble (triple) compensation. Me either. Glad the news are keeping up with it.

I'd like to see also if anyone is getting paid. Watching closely the legal group in Michigan to see their outcome.

You know I would have never dreamed that they would settle and then sit on the payments. Wonder if they are adding interest to their late payment or just collecting.

Starbuy
05-21-2012, 04:23 PM
I think it's kind of sad that there aren't more LCO's discussing this in this thread or even in the professional threads. There are a few, but for the most part it's just some property owners and then lots of people (at this point over 7000 views) that are reading this particular thread. But, this is the busy time of year for LCOs so it's understandable that they won't discuss much on here especially when they don't know anymore than homeowners do about Dupont's responses and outcomes. I do hope more LCOs fill us in here when they do receive any updates.

At this point, I'm probably reading and studying all the same things the law firms are. I keep up to date with the dockets filed in the class action too. Cindy, I hipe you're able to keep us posted with that Michigan case too. Years ago this kind of information would have been much more difficult to access so quickly without the web. As one attorney said, you're doing a lot of the work we do and if you get tired you can hire us. At this point, I'm still holding out to at least get an offer, then I'll reassess whether I'll take this to court. At least I'll be able to show a jury that I tried to be very reasonable with Dupont and was willing to try their resolution process.

cindyb
05-21-2012, 04:47 PM
I would hope the LCO's would be happy to report that their customers have been taken care of and are satisfied. Maybe they just don't read this section.

Jerry Richart of Troy, 65, a photographer, said he received a $3,000 offer from DuPont to treat his 12 trees.

Instead of removing them, the company wants to see if the trees can recover. If the trees don't recover by Dec. 31, 2013, then DuPont will pay what is "reasonable" to remove and replace them, Richart said, quoting the offer.

That isn't going to happen here.

Angus Sutherland, 78, of Lodi Township, a retired school principal and one of Underwood's customers, said, "It's out of our hands. We have to wait for them." Just sad.


DuPont spokeswoman Kate Childress said in an e-mail Thursday to the Free Press that "we're working as quickly as possible to process claims."

"Since this is a property-specific evaluation, it is a complex process and it takes time to do it fairly and accurately," she said. "DuPont has more than 200 people working on the claims of property owners."

Hire more people and that has nothing to do with compensation that property owners have agreed to.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 09:13 AM
I confirmed with Dupont rep that we will have to reject their first offer if we want any kind of guarantee of a timely payment. When I pointed out that Dupont could take as long as they want to pay if someone approves the first offer and therefore that kind of 'settlement' is almost worthless, they said "then you'll have to reject the offer and send back to us you're requirements for settlement. They will either send you a new offer or they may even send the same offer; we have no way of knowing. We (the resolution customer service number) can't see the offer they give you." When I asked them if we receive a claim offer is their someone in the claims department we'll be able to actually speak with about the claim? they said, "no, you can only call to this same number, but we won't be able to see the offer details." Therefore, all communications with them regarding the claim details, your demands and so forth can only come to them through the mail since it's legal documents.

When I addressed the waste of time this causes that I can't send them specific demands before receiving the first offer (such as making sure the first offer, in order to even be considered by me, has a time limit of how long they have to compensate me in full), they said "you'll just have to reject the first offer because that's the way the first offer is." In other words, Dupont is sending out these first offers, which seem to have no legally binding time limit for compensation, in order to see who are the easy ones and who bites (caves), then they deal with the rejections with counteroffers. Now, maybe those who have received an offer can respond here whether the offer really doesn't have any time frame of payment in case what I was told by the rep was not accurate.

On a happier note, when I asked them if any property owner had actually received their compensation check, they said yes some have. But, I will never sign away my right to file suit without a guarantee of a timely payment (within 60 days maximum). But, that's just me. Maybe some people trust them blindly. I don't.

cindyb
05-22-2012, 10:00 AM
Morning. Been sending out some invites to this thread.

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Hello Cindy and Starbuy. Still waiting also. Not a word here in Wayne county.
Did call Dupont again on Friday and still in the final stages. We are in such a tough spot right now and would like to list our house for sale but with the trees dying all 54 of them how do you attract anyone to look at your home? I plan to call Dupont again today to see if I can reach someone other then the customer service we all have spoken to over and over. wish me luck..have a feeling I may not get far on that.

cindyb
05-22-2012, 12:16 PM
TL, you have your pm's turned off?

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 12:29 PM
Hello Tree Lover! Add the fact that this has hindered your sale opportunity to the list of damages Imprelis has caused you. I'm also waiting for the offer before I send anything to Dupont about my concerns since it seems as though I will have to reject it anyhow based on my conversation with them. I also have suffered delay in refinancing due to the post-apocalyptic scenery of my Imprelis-damaged property. And, to those who say they only comp an extra 15% of the total for our trouble, that is subject to each property and circumstances. The original wording used by Dupont is:
" In order to cover costs, inconveniences and other possible impacts associated with Imprelis®, DuPont will provide participating property owners an additional direct payment based on a fixed percentage of the total validated claim." The "fixed percentage" starts at 15%, but nothing written in stone or laws which state that fixed percentage can't be adjusted to reflect additional monetary loss a property owner will suffer from. It's all about what it will take for each property owner to accept the offer. In the end, I'm sure there will be many more heading to court if Dupont doesn't compensate fairly for these extra circumstances. You just have to spell everything out in the letter back to them. This is no more time consuming than going to court and the way I feel this just gives me more experience before heading to court. Hopefully, Dupont claim department people will do the right and moral thing and properly compensate us for our WHOLE loss. Not every company employee is evil. I'm sure there are some good moral people in Dupont claims that want to make this right. Surely, hopefully they exist and those above them want to avoid a more costly litigation process of even more people leaving the claims process and filing separate suits in court.

cindyb
05-22-2012, 12:51 PM
02-26-2012, 12:46 AM

RRSS440

LawnSite Member Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5

Values

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Their "replacement value table"
1' = $30
2-4' = $90
5-6' = $230
7-8' = $360
9-10' = $520
11-12' = $650
13-14' = $930
15-16' = $1,000
17-18' = $1,120
19-20' = $1,910
I had a 28' valued at $4,000

As I said they offered a fair market price for removal of the dead tree's. As well as the above chart for replacement value. They offered payment for an extended care program for 12 tree's which should cover two years of fertilizer and pesticide applications. As well they offered a care program for the new tree's for one year. In addition to all that they added 15% for pain and suffering. I know it is not a golden parachute, but it seems like a fair market value and fair market price for replacement.

You will have to make your best decision on what it is worth to you. Good luck.

Wish he/she had an email link, would love to see if they actually got their payment.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 01:22 PM
I've heard much higher prices than what's seen above, but it has to do with the state and area a person's property is in and other factors. It is not one chart fits all. I also spoke to Dupont about it and they confirmed values vary depending on many issues. Mine can't be replaced at those prices in my area. Of course, removal cost is not in those values either or other costs.

patchoulipal
05-22-2012, 01:29 PM
I think we need to try to get this story some national news coverage. Does anyone have any contacts to possibly help that happen?

cindyb
05-22-2012, 01:55 PM
I've heard much higher prices than what's seen above, but it has to do with the state and area a person's property is in and other factors. It is not one chart fits all. I also spoke to Dupont about it and they confirmed values vary depending on many issues. Mine can't be replaced at those prices in my area. Of course, removal cost is not in those values either or other costs.

I was told they didn't know where those prices came from when I asked but I'd still like to know if that poster was compensated after the offer.

Patch, the updates getting national coverage. When you type in "imprelis" in google, this is the site with all the information. Have close to 8000 looks, I'm sure the majority aren't LCO's. The latest story being Dupont not mailing checks for offers back in March.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 02:30 PM
I think we need to try to get this story some national news coverage. Does anyone have any contacts to possibly help that happen?

I do, but waiting to see my offer before I go forward with media story. If I see something positive in their process with me then I won't proceed with national media. I have connections at two of the big four broadcast nets. At this point I feel I must be careful going completely public and will not unless the claims process is junk and I hire a law firm. Then, I'll have to have an attorney with me if I do a story to make sure nothing creates a problem for my case, if it comes to that. Getting all my ducks lined up though.

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 02:34 PM
I have considered calling our News channel in the Cleveland area. Starbuy would be familiar with Carl Monday from the 19 action news he investigates stories to help get to the bottom of them. I have some contacts with someone who used to be in the news room that I could possibly in turn have Carl Monday come out and do a story on our trees and maybe if Starbuy would be willing to let them interview him also and show his trees, since he is in the area....could possibly rattle some things on Duponts end if it hits the news and could possibly travel beyond Cleveland news?

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 02:37 PM
I agree Starbuy, it's better to wait and see what the offer is before going to the media. But something to consider for us since we are close to one another to have both our stories heard, power in numbers!!!!!

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 03:00 PM
I agree Starbuy, it's better to wait and see what the offer is before going to the media. But something to consider for us since we are close to one another to have both our stories heard, power in numbers!!!!!

Carl is a good investigative reporter. But, I'm also thinking 60 Minutes especially if more people who signed agreements don't actually get compensated in a timely manner and if the EPA's meeting in June comes out with anything interesting. I also think an investigation into the EPA's testing and their allowance for this to go to market to be used on residential properties and not just commercial properties speaks volumes on the EPA. But, they'll probably end up getting millions from fining Dupont even though they permitted this in a limited way. I'll give this some time and give Dupont a little more time for redemption in this matter. But, I've got plenty of HD video documentation on the progress thus far.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 03:27 PM
Tree Lover, as Cindy mentioned we think your private message option in your account is not turned on so that you can receive private messages on this site. I would like to PM you something if you don't mind.

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 03:30 PM
sure how do I do that????

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 03:45 PM
When you're logged in click on your name at the top right corner of site, then look for CP (left side of your account page I believe), then click on Options in the left column. That takes you to a page where you can click a box to allow private messages.

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 03:57 PM
:confused:think I got it, you can try. I apologize I had trouble finding it.
and to think I work on a computer all day UGH

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
I apologize, it's looks as though I do not have permission to turn on PM?
there is not option to turn on or off in my control panel options?
I may need to contact site to see if I can do so.
I don't believe I can PM you either to contact you.
See what I can do in the meantime.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 04:32 PM
Yes, maybe contact the people running the site to get help. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 04:43 PM
I apologize, it's looks as though I do not have permission to turn on PM?
there is not option to turn on or off in my control panel options?
I may need to contact site to see if I can do so.
I don't believe I can PM you either to contact you.
See what I can do in the meantime.

I received your public message to me, but it was just public and not private.

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 04:46 PM
think I activated it. take a look and you can message me now

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 04:48 PM
Dupont Imprelis may have a 19 year presence in affected soil according to the EPA registration:

The following figures were taken straight from the Imprelis EPA Registration:

At 365 days after application found at 70-90 cm in soil

-aerobic terrestrial half life 373 days

-anaerobic terrestrial half life 6932 days

6932 days is a half life of 19 years.

I'm glad some have had some short term success so far in planting in some affected soils, but these figures from the EPA Imprelis registration are disturbing. No wonder Dupont is seeking to settle with property owners directly instead of through the courts. Think of the possible punitive damages courts may make them pay. Yikes!

Tree Lover
05-22-2012, 04:52 PM
Starbuy and Cindy, here is what the site moderator told me about PM

you need to be a member of the site for 10 days and have made 10 posts...once you have done both then the private messaging option will automatically become available to you

guess I have a few days to go before I can have PM

Starbuy
05-22-2012, 05:03 PM
No problem TL. Thanks for notifying!

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 10:21 AM
I've been reviewing resolution agreements for property owners and have been finding that for trees 20 feet tall or less the DuPont money will not cover replacement. That additional 15% evaporates on reseeding, sod, broken irrigation lines, fence removal, septic tank field laterals, underground pet fence, side walks, mandatory erosion control, no solid waste dump and on and on and on. Not to mention I've seen dead and injured replants.

How about the hardwoods this year I have been evaluating with severe injury? Have you considered the damage to root systems? Most people just look at the canopy, what about the roots that were initially exposed to the toxin. Have you noticed how yellow/pale/chlorotic some canopies look? The roots can't take up the nutrients and water. What is going to happen in July when the tree needs water or there is even a slight drought?

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Any one with resolution agreements and trees over 50 foot tall I would appreciate information regarding the height, species, and DuPont value offered for the tree.

For example, a 55 ft Norway = $10,000
A 56 Ft Norway = $11,000

A 100 Ft Norway = $19,000.

I'm putting together information related to height, species and offer to determine how fair the offer is.

Thanks

cindyb
05-23-2012, 11:07 AM
Welcome to the conversation AC.

Are you a LCO or an attorney?

Trying to understand your statement that trees under 20 feet tall aren't covered for replacement?

And I agree with the hardwood root damage, my Bradford pears aren't looking wonderful. Dupont is suppose to cover any additional trees up to 2013 but we might not have a settlement by then. I'm not to happy with how my blackberries are doing and my roses have never been the same.This 90 degree 3 day weekend is just a preview of the upcoming summer.

We had someone post replacement values up to 28 ft but Dupont told me those weren't correct. A golf course had an offer of $92,000 for their trees. 9 trees, 49 ft tall so thats about $8900.00 a tree and the 15%.

This is the only forum that has good updates and we aren't seeing offers posted.

I've been reviewing resolution agreements for property owners and have been finding that for trees 20 feet tall or less the DuPont money will not cover replacement. That additional 15% evaporates on reseeding, sod, broken irrigation lines, fence removal, septic tank field laterals, underground pet fence, side walks, mandatory erosion control, no solid waste dump and on and on and on. Not to mention I've seen dead and injured replants.

How about the hardwoods this year I have been evaluating with severe injury? Have you considered the damage to root systems? Most people just look at the canopy, what about the roots that were initially exposed to the toxin. Have you noticed how yellow/pale/chlorotic some canopies look? The roots can't take up the nutrients and water. What is going to happen in July when the tree needs water or there is even a slight drought?

Any one with resolution agreements and trees over 50 foot tall I would appreciate information regarding the height, species, and DuPont value offered for the tree.

For example, a 55 ft Norway = $10,000
A 56 Ft Norway = $11,000

A 100 Ft Norway = $19,000.

I'm putting together information related to height, species and offer to determine how fair the offer is.

Thanks

cindyb
05-23-2012, 11:19 AM
http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20120425/NEWS01/204250306/Oceola-eyes-92K-settlement

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Hi Cindy

What I meant to say and perhaps was not clear, trees equal to or less than 20 feet in height are not being treated fairly in the DuPont resolution process. In Michigan, for example, I contacted about 5 or 6 reputable tree sale operations and received prices for trees 20ft and under. I calculated the cost of replanting and disposal of toxic materials etc. Then I compared those values to several Resolution agreements I was asked to review. In each case, I had to recommend that the property owner get local pricing, consider the extra removal and installation costs, repair to turf, landscape and hardscape features etc.

I know what Dupont is offering for trees less than 50 feet tall for some species. I don't know if DuPont is using this valuation scale for all species.

I do know, for a fact, that Imprelis is still active in the soil and still causing injury to trees including many hardwoods. And yes, your roses may be impacted. I have seen many damaged roses with odd shaped leaves and yellowing consistent with a damaged root system.

Do not discharge grass clippings on flower beds or around trees. Blow the clippings away from plants if possible. Remember, DuPont has warned up not to mulch with grass clippings, well, if you discharge the clippings onto flowers what do you think the results will be? And why is DuPont warning everyone to completely remove all plant material from trees and plants they are cutting down? And warning not to put in compost or mulch sites? Think about it? They know their chemical Imprelis is still active and cause injury.

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 11:33 AM
Cindy. Ask yourself a few questions:
1. Where was the Imprelis applied?
2. What plant organ was first to contact and remain in contact with the toxin?
3. If the roots were damaged, probably more than the canopy, will they be able to absorb nutrients or water as efficiently as non treated trees?
4. What is going to happen when the temperature rises and the trees need more water?
5. Why are we seeing so many "yellow or light green" tree and plant leaves on Imprelis treated property?

If the roots are injured, then they simply won't function normally. You are going to see nutrient deficiency problems, wilting, die back in the tree canopy etc.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 11:38 AM
We have figured out the first offer is lower than it should be.

I'd like to know the value of the larger trees also, mine are mostly 30 - 40 feet tall. I will be doing a counter offer, I've had more damage since the first report and dupont's site visit wouldn't include since it wasn't on the original report.

I'll get some pictures tonight of my deformed blackberry leaves and my yellowed roses. My knock out roses stopped blooming, just dead blooms.

No doubt that the Imprelis is still active, new growth on my trees are deformed and then dies.

Are you an arborist? Attorney? LCO? Wondering why you are checking resolutions?
Hi Cindy

What I meant to say and perhaps was not clear, trees equal to or less than 20 feet in height are not being treated fairly in the DuPont resolution process. In Michigan, for example, I contacted about 5 or 6 reputable tree sale operations and received prices for trees 20ft and under. I calculated the cost of replanting and disposal of toxic materials etc. Then I compared those values to several Resolution agreements I was asked to review. In each case, I had to recommend that the property owner get local pricing, consider the extra removal and installation costs, repair to turf, landscape and hardscape features etc.

I know what Dupont is offering for trees less than 50 feet tall for some species. I don't know if DuPont is using this valuation scale for all species.

I do know, for a fact, that Imprelis is still active in the soil and still causing injury to trees including many hardwoods. And yes, your roses may be impacted. I have seen many damaged roses with odd shaped leaves and yellowing consistent with a damaged root system.

Do not discharge grass clippings on flower beds or around trees. Blow the clippings away from plants if possible. Remember, DuPont has warned up not to mulch with grass clippings, well, if you discharge the clippings onto flowers what do you think the results will be? And why is DuPont warning everyone to completely remove all plant material from trees and plants they are cutting down? And warning not to put in compost or mulch sites? Think about it? They know their chemical Imprelis is still active and cause injury.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 11:42 AM
Cindy. Ask yourself a few questions:
1. Where was the Imprelis applied?
2. What plant organ was first to contact and remain in contact with the toxin?
3. If the roots were damaged, probably more than the canopy, will they be able to absorb nutrients or water as efficiently as non treated trees?
4. What is going to happen when the temperature rises and the trees need more water?
5. Why are we seeing so many "yellow or light green" tree and plant leaves on Imprelis treated property?

If the roots are injured, then they simply won't function normally. You are going to see nutrient deficiency problems, wilting, die back in the tree canopy etc.

Almost every tree we own, is dying or deformed. I stuck some tomato plants out near my worst trees, will keep a picture diary.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 11:44 AM
This thread has 8100 views. Not just us keeping informed.

Heading to a meeting.

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 11:46 AM
[QUOTE=cindyb;4421189]Welcome to the conversation AC.
Trying to understand your statement that trees under 20 feet tall aren't covered for replacement? [QUOTE]

Dupont is offering to compensate for replacement is not enough to actually take care of replacement, which is what I also heard from Davey Tree. They also confirmed to me that the first lowball offers from Dupont are no where near what they need to be in order to do all the work that needs done on most properties in removing and replacing trees.

Everyone waiting on an offer from Dupont for Imprelis damage compensation really needs to get ALL the estimates from private contractors (not the LCO who used Imprelis) for everything from tree removal, high quality same size tree replacement (and really larger since many have lost growth they would have had by the time compensation might arrive), all landscape beds and lawn that gets ripped up needs repaired, electricians that need hired to re-lay any utility lines that must be removed and replaced to your house in the digging process, and any other circumstances for your property. And, for some you'll end up displaced from your home since you won't have electric, phone, cable, etc. during the time utilities are affected. I'm bringing in my home builder to help assess this as well.

Be careful not to undervalue what your true loss is, but if you just have trees and shrubs around that you don't care to replace then maybe you'll be satisfied with the initial low offer from Dupont. That's what they hope for in sending out these initially insulting settlement offers. But this is the way most things work in settlements. Negotiation is normal, but in the end many of us may have to just resort to the courts for help. Just like Apple and Samsung who are in meeting right now as part of a court ordered settlement talk to see if they can agree before they continue back to the courts, which they probably will unless Samsung agrees to not (allegedly) copy Apple's products. These things take time and unfortunately it's affecting our homelife, our quality of life, our time and our property values. Dupont must pay for all of this, in my opinion.

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Starbuy listed some very interesting information concerning the half life of Imprelis in a recent post. This information is taken from the following EPA document which can be downloaded from the web.

EPA-HQ-OPP-2009-0789-0014[1] Registration

Look on page 13 - 14 concerning "Environmental Fate". You may want to read other sections as well. There are about 2.54 cm per inch for conversion purposes.

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 11:59 AM
Cindy
I just read that settlement agreement you posted. DuPont is lying about imprelis impacting ground water.

Here is what they were quoted as saying:

Aminocyclopyrachlor does not pose significant risks to human health or groundwater contamination, DuPont spokeswoman Kate Childress said.

"Contamination of well water by Imprelis is highly unlikely," Childress said.


This is what their EPA Regsistration document says on page 13:

1.3.2. Environmental Fate
Aminocyclopyrachlor is non-volatile, highly soluble in water, and highly mobile to mobile in
soils. Dissipation in the environment is expected to occur predominantly via aqueous photolysis, runoff, and leaching. Terrestrial field dissipation occurred with half-lives ranging from 22 to 126 days. Aminocyclopyrachlor was detected at soil depths of 70 – 90 cm at 365 days, indicating that leaching of residues into groundwater may occur.

I wonder if I should send a copy of this to DuPont? What don't they understand about being "highly mobile" in soils? That means it moves through soils, downward and laterally, very easily. That is why Starbuy had injury on his property because it moved off the target property onto his. I have seen and photographed many properties with injury far from the application site.

Tree Lover
05-23-2012, 12:43 PM
Aircorp
This truly scares me about our water. We live on over a acre of land and yes we have well water. I have 2 children who drink water daily from our tap from taking to school water bottles everyday to the bottles they fill for their sports not to mention my husband coaching my sons team and all the water bottles he has filled over and over during the last year to provide for those 17 kids on the team!!!!! The water from my well.
I am terrified to think of the effect it could have on my family!!!!
Cindy could you please provide the email address you have when emailing Dupont.
Starbuy, do you have well water also? If so have you been using it over the past year.

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE=Tree Lover;4421246]Aircorp
Starbuy, do you have well water also? If so have you been using it over the past year.[/QUOTE

No, I use city water. But, our property and many others in my neighborhood that were impacted by Imprelis are adjacent to the Cuyahoga River in Ohio. Oh boy, this is going to turn into an even bigger mess. The EPA spent millions over the last few years improving the quality of this stretch of the river and they will be looking into this I'm sure.

Dupont will say that the chemical in Imprelis only affects the growth hormones of plants and therefore safe for animals and humans. But, anything that damages the things we eat; how does the molecular structure get altered when damaged by this chemical? They'll be a documentary coming on this fiasco, I assure you.

I'm grateful for Aircorps input on this thread. Please keep it up.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 12:59 PM
I don't want to post the email publicly, they shut it down and on the phone, they stop answering, thats why I wanted to pm you.

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Starbuy listed some very interesting information concerning the half life of Imprelis in a recent post. This information is taken from the following EPA document which can be downloaded from the web.

EPA-HQ-OPP-2009-0789-0014[1] Registration

Look on page 13 - 14 concerning "Environmental Fate". You may want to read other sections as well. There are about 2.54 cm per inch for conversion purposes.

Aircorp, would you mind allowing private messaging once you get to 10 posts so I can PM you?

cindyb
05-23-2012, 01:04 PM
2005 Dupont and Teflon cookware

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-1083164.html

The EPA alleged that DuPont for 20 years covered up important information about C8's health effects and about the pollution of water supplies near the company's Washington Works plant.

Under federal law, DuPont could face civil fines of more than $300 million for not reporting information that showed C8 posed "substantial risk of injury to health or the environment." The company has set aside $15 million to cover the costs of the lawsuit, according to corporate disclosures filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 01:11 PM
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1638487957001/ Fox news and Geraldo

New Jersey community devastated by contaminated water

Pompton Lakes residents plea for more to be done to rid lake of poisonous DuPont chemicals

http://www.wolfenotes.com/2012/05/dupont-pompton-lakes-still-dirty-after-all-these-years/

cindyb
05-23-2012, 01:14 PM
Residents were poisoned in their homes by Dupont pollution – something known as “vapor intrusion”. Dupont, DEP, and EPA knew about the vapor problem for over a decade but didn’t inform homeowners, who unknowingly were needlessly exposed to cancer causing chemical gases (hit this link for a chronology of who knew what when).

Outrageously, the residents were not told about the vapor intrusion problem until after residents executed a legal settlement with Dupont that waived their ability to sue Dupont [read US District Court decision]. In the summer of 2008, just after the ink was dry on that litigation settlement agreement , DEP and EPA suddenly claimed to have discovered the vapor problem.

But, this is not the first time that DEP withheld scientific information from the public to shield Dupont – the same thing happened during litigation on PFOA contamination of groundwater from Dupont’s Chambersworks facility in South Jersey. DEP did not release site remediation information until a lawsuit there was settled.

EPA also issued false certifications to Congress that groundwater and human health exposure at the site were “under control”.

These kinds of potential frauds and conspiracies warrant investigation.

Scary stuff and to think the EPA knew?

cindyb
05-23-2012, 01:17 PM
You have to be a member 10 days to get pms and have 10 posts

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 01:28 PM
Scary stuff and to think the EPA knew?

And, according to the law firms representing the Imprelis class action, Dupont also knew before they put Imprelis on the market to be used by professionals on residential properties that Imprelis could kill conifers. The fact that they allegedly did not have proper labeling is what will sink them in court big time. The law firm I spoke to involved in the class action says this will get settled, but if I file separate (if the Dupont direct process continues to be a lowball sham) the settlement would have to be enough to make it worth my while since 30% goes to the firm. I think I would have to reject settlement in Philli so that the case comes back to Ohio, then deal with my own settlement or go all the way to jury. I don't think I'll come out okay if accepting a small fraction of the class action settlement. They want too much in lawyer fees and too many golf courses and tree farms with more damage than me. I'd want this coming back to Ohio courts eventually. Still searching for the right law firm in case I need them. Won't pay more than 30% and won't pay lawyer fees out of my compensation if it's more than 35%. If it goes all the way thru jury trial than all attorneys fees should get paid by Dupont. Just thinking ahead.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 01:48 PM
So we are figuring out why dupont wants to pay us and walk away leaving us with toxins in the ground for no telling how long.

The attorney(s) I've talked to said I'd come out ahead but I'd rather settle with Dupont. 33% and additional bills for things like calls and other services. I don't want class action either, it would come back to Kentucky. If it comes down to going to court, we'll have to discuss attorneys by pm.

THis is interesting. The Supreme court ruled homeowners can sue the EPA

http://conservative-wanderer.com/2012/03/21/supreme-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-epa/

They aren't above the law

President Obama’s imperial administration through Executive Branch agencies like the EPA got a big setback today, courtesy of the Supreme Court (emphasis in original).

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 02:12 PM
So we are figuring out why dupont wants to pay us and walk away leaving us with toxins in the ground for no telling how long.

The attorney(s) I've talked to said I'd come out ahead but I'd rather settle with Dupont. 33% and additional bills for things like calls and other services. I don't want class action either, it would come back to Kentucky. If it comes down to going to court, we'll have to discuss attorneys by pm.

THis is interesting. The Supreme court ruled homeowners can sue the EPA

http://conservative-wanderer.com/2012/03/21/supreme-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-epa/

They aren't above the law

Well, once you have your second or even third offer from Dupont, if you decide to go to court, maybe ask the attorney if you'll get more than that offer even with subtracting all their commission and fees. If they're really confident that you'll come out way ahead then surely they'll accept a set commission with no additional fees like some do with car accident cases.

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 02:54 PM
Hey everyone. Calm down. There is no evidence that Imprelis will harm humans. I am not an alarmist here. You all have to think logically about this. Use the EPA documents I previously mentioned. On page 7, there is only one mention of possible drinking water problems but it is below the level of concern for the EPA. You can trust in the EPA scientists on this. Here is the section.

1.2.1.1. Degradate of Concern
An environmental photodegradate of aminocyclopyrachlor present only in surface water was of possible concern for drinking water exposures. This photodegradate, cyclopropane carboxylic acid (IN-V0977), has a different mode of toxic action than aminocyclopyrachlor. Oral administration of cyclopropane carboxylic acid causes severe impairment of mitochondrial function by inhibiting the beta oxidation of fatty acids, resulting in microvesicular steatosis (accumulation of small fat droplets in cells). The liver is the most sensitive organ, and hepatocellular microvesicular steatosis is often accompanied by liver necrosis and inflammation, decreased hepatic glycogen, and decreased blood glucose levels. These effects have been
observed with acute (one to three days) and longer (up to 14 days) exposure. The most sensitive species is the rabbit. Hepatic microvesicular steatosis in the rabbit follows a different dose response than body weight decreases observed with aminocyclopyrachlor and aminocyclopyrachlor-methyl in rats, with a lowest observed adverse effect level (LOAEL) that is
100-fold lower. However, based on the new use pattern, the dietary exposure to IN-V0977 from drinking water is below the Agency’s level of concern (LOC) (see Section 1.2.4).

AIRCORP
05-23-2012, 03:30 PM
Someone has asked me if I am an attorney? No, I'm not. I'm a plant scientist who has been working on investigations such as this since 1993. I was an expert witness in DuPont's Benlate issue from 1994 to 2000. I know a little bit about DuPont.

Yes, I am working or have worked for many attorneys and insurance companies evaluating Imprelis injury.

Yes, I have discovered new and more extensive damage this year on Imprelis properties, more than was listed on DuPont evaluations last year.

What I have seen in the DuPont resolution offers is pretty fair. I reommend you take it.

Yes, it probably is below what you could get if I were to analyse this for you. And I would consider all the hardwoods, shrubs, plants, turf, costs for fencing, erosion control, charcoal treatment, soil removal, in some cases complete removal of turf and soil where contamination is high, damage to driveways, sidewalks, fencing, septic systems, irrigation, underground dog fence, and on and on.

The additional 15% that DuPont offers may cover some of these expenses maybe all of them, maybe you'll have lots of additional money because they over pay you.

If I were your expert, I would measure the height of your trees using a laser devise very accurate, not just guess or take a photograph with a yard stick in the picture. I've checked some of DuPont's tree height measurements and found them to be off 4 to 8 feet, that could mean thousands of dollars just using the DuPont tree values. But, it might also mean the over estimate as well to your advantage. I know DuPont wants to be fair with you so, I believe they probably would over estimate to give you the advanage because they recognize the hardship they caused in your life when they dumped their toxin on your front yard.

But, if I were you, just take the DuPont settlement and be satisfied. You might have to wait for the attorneys to do their job and bring justice to this case. DuPont is going to send you a check, it's probably already in the mail.

The attorneys I work for are working for people who want justice and to send a message to DuPont that Americans are not going to be puppets or guinea pigs for DuPont. The people I work for a strong Americans with strong beliefs and defend our civil liberties. But it takes a special kind of American to stand up for their rights, the rights granted by our constitution, the rights that will keep America from having to experience this type of contamination in the future.

For those of you looking for a quick settlement, just sign off on your release and move on. DuPont will eventually send you a check. If more trees continue to die I'm sure DuPont's guarantee will provide you with economic compensation for your future loses. And those of your neighbors where the chemical ran off and damaged their property. I'm sure you all notified your neighbors to let them know what happened. I'm confident you did this.

And yes, those American lawyers have to charge a large fee and expenses to bring justice. And yes they all get real rich in the process. And yes, some property owners are willing to make sacrifices, to pay a little more, to give more of their time and money to make sure this does not happen to their children and grand children. Those are the people I am proud to say I work with. They put principal over profit.

And yes, expert witnesses, like myself, make money so we can buy cameras, laser measuring devices, computer systems, software, satellite images and software, vehicles, spend 8 months a year away from their family, miss their dogs, and birthdays, and holidays, trudge across miles of Imprelis impacted turf wondering if there will be future consequences to our health, be out in the snow and rain and cold and heat. Yep, we are all getting real rich off this process.

And NO, I'm not looking for any more work. I'm too busy as it is. So don't even ask.

My purpose here is to help you and to have you help me get data from resolution agreements on trees over 50 feet tall. That is my purpose.

cindyb
05-23-2012, 05:08 PM
I typed a long reply AC, bit my fingers and deleted it.

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Aircorp, so I hope I understand you when you said in an earlier post that those who have trees under 20' to be careful about Dupont's offer because what you've seen in offers is too low. And, in your most recent post you mentioned accepting Dupont's offer, but I assume, taking into account your previous concern about low offers, that you are directing that to those with larger trees. Do I understand you correctly?

Also, how can anyone of us simply and blindly trust Dupont to send a check if we agree to an offer unless it is stipulated how long they have to send the check? A court would never allow an open ended payment for compensation since a losing defendent could stretch that time out forever. Sure, you could take them to court to get the money, but if you've already signed off on never suing them you're screwed.

And, as far as trusting the EPA scientists, how can we do that when they seem to have failed us taxpayers by allowing a product that kills trees and certain shrubs to be used by LCO's on residential properties? Maybe it wasn't the EPA scientistific research department that failed to make Dupont label correctly, but I'm sure you'll understand some of our frustrations concerning the EPA as well as Dupont. If the EPA does fine Dupont they should be made by Congress or the Justice department to give that money to those who've suffered loss. But, this will just be another windfall for government agencies. Sorry for my rant on government, it's not toward you and I really appreciate your input here. If I find out figures from those with 50' trees, I'll certainly let you know.

Starbuy
05-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Aircorp, have you done any site visits in Northeast Ohio and have you seen anyones first offers in Ohio? I know some who did not receive fair offers that would cover everything, but those were under 20' as you mentioned earlier. Like you said, there are many things that end up costing the homeowner more money in the digging, removal, replacement costs that don't get figured in unless someone sends back the rejection and includes those items in their demands. Have you seen any second offers from Dupont after property owners listed the additional damages, or are you only seeing their basic costs charts that they try to use? Sorry for the many questions. I realized when I read your first post you were working for law firms and therefore obviously the law firm's clients have left the Dupont Claims Process or were never a part of it to begin with. Have any of the attorneys you're gathering information for have clients who were trying Dupont's direct process but then gave up or are they ones who simply filed suit right away? I appreciate any input you feel you can give in a general way.

AIRCORP
05-24-2012, 09:09 AM
Starbuy

Good morning.

Most of our clients have tried the DuPont process and became frustrated because DuPont wouldn't even return their calls. Secondly, those that counter claimed never heard back from DuPont. Can you imagine what would happen if DuPont paid even one counter claim? The entire USA would be counter claiming to get a fair and equitable settlement.

Yes, I have been in Marion, Ohio and eastern Indiana. Actually, last week I was in the Grand Lake area. I have also been in NJ, PA, MD, DC, OH, IN, IL, MI, MN, KY, KS, MO.

At 6:21am I got a call from Michigan. DuPont has sent a check and was received by a home owner for $7,000. The checks are in the mail like I said yesterday. Just wait.

Now, what does a home owner have do do with that money? There are people just waiting for those checks to hit the ground. They are waiting to sell services and plants. Chain saws will roar, prunning shears will clip, earth moving equipment will be digging holes, grass will be seeded, then the final bill will hit the home owner. But, it goes on, the injured trees get maintenance for the next two years, if you don't do the maintenance, and the tree dies, you don't get the tree replaced. If you don't carefully document the maintenance and keep all the receipts, you don't get the tree replaced.

The evaluation for those trees was done last year. Yes, a checkup by DuPont may have occurred this spring, but nothing changes unless it is to DuPont's advantage. So, from my observations, the majority of the injured trees scheduled for maintenance have further declined and probably should be replaced. What a mess.

Have a great day.

Tree Lover
05-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Morning Aircorp,
you may have seen some of my pictures I posted early in this thread. We live in Wooster Ohio and have over 54 dying trees. 51 are White Pines and 3 are the Norway Spruce which you can see in my pics. are now dead. Our white pines have all curled and browned on the tops and throughout, much worse then when Dupont came to our site in August of 2011. I know Dupont made 3 site visits in our County and ours was one due to the amount of loss we have. My question to you is...have you seen this much damage to a home owner's property. I realize golf courses and housing developments have several trees but we live on 1 acre of land and all our trees wrap all the way around our property standing between 15 to 30 feet tall. We are also seeing brown and dying in our arborvitaes (have you seen them dying also?). Back to what I was asking...have you seen this much damage on one person's resident property? Do you think Dupont will take into consideration our entire property will be tore up to cut down and replant all 54 trees? We have not seen our proposal as of yet, I check the front porch daily. But from what you have heard and seen do you think with that many trees Dupont will be willing to compensate fairly a home owner? (since we are not a golf course or nusery or company)
Thanks for your time

Starbuy
05-24-2012, 11:50 AM
Starbuy

Good morning.

Most of our clients have tried the DuPont process and became frustrated because DuPont wouldn't even return their calls. Secondly, those that counter claimed never heard back from DuPont. Can you imagine what would happen if DuPont paid even one counter claim? The entire USA would be counter claiming to get a fair and equitable settlement.


Thanks for your reply! Well, if Dupont doesn't offer a proper counterclaim to someone who clearly shows further damage and increased costs in their rejection letter to the first offer then it's off to court many more will go. I also heard that some have received the check from Dupont's offer, but other news outlets are reporting there are people who agreed to the lower first offers and yet still have not received any money nor contact from Dupont and it has been months. Have you seen anyone's offer from Dupont and if so does it have any reference to how much time the claimant must wait for the compensation check if they approve the offer? If there's no time limit given in the agreement then it is a legal open ended offer and I will never agree to anything like that. I can't go by hope and hearing that some have received the check I have to have it in writing.

It seems I maybe one of the ones who really cares enough and knows the value of my loss enough that I may have to go the way of the courts to be fully compensated. I'm in this direct compensation process and I'll give it a chance first. The longer Dupont drags this out the higher the compensation they must pay goes, so we'll see what happens.

Also, am I correct in believing that the 2 year maintenance applies to those who agree to use Dupont's contracted folks and not to those who demand all compensation be paid directly to the property owner and none to third parties? Then it's up to the property owner to use the money to hire who they want whether it's removal, replacement, maintenance... I was told this by a Dupont rep concerning how they will handle my claim and that if I agree to the offer they'll just cut a check for everything (and be done with me).

I understand some cities who've had damage are dealing with this same issue and wanting all compensation including removal to be paid to them and no third party. I asked Dupont and they said, yes, you can put that in your rejection letter and "of course it is your right to hire who you want to come onto your property, you don't have to use the LCO for removal even if that LCO used the option 1 forms."

Starbuy
05-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Well TreeLover it looks like you've had over 10 posts, so do you still have to wait until you can activate your private message option?

Tree Lover
05-24-2012, 12:20 PM
Hello Starbuy, I have 10 posts but still need 10 days
I started on 5-16 so as of tomorrow I think I will be good to PM.
Crazy eh??? I will be sure to set that up as soon as I can tomorrow to PM.
Thanks for reminding me.

AIRCORP
05-24-2012, 12:38 PM
Tree Lover
So many questions.
1. Yes, I've been on homes that look like napalm was dropped. And yes, much more damage than yours. You can't believe the high end properties that used this product.

2. Arbs are toast in many places. I've seen over 300 arbs on just one property. They tried to cut them in half to get rid of the top death and destruction. Well, now they have half of death and destruction this year.
3. Check your maples and oaks. Look for odd shaped leaves with cupping and stretching. How do you post photographs on this site? I can show you what I have been seeing here in Missouri and Michigan.
4. Lilacs, rose of sharon, rhododendron, hydrangea, and other shrubs are dead or dying. You may find spider mites, aphids etc. attacking your plants and you say to yourself that the "bugs" are killing my trees. No, they are just cleaning up the mess, evolution, survival of the fittest, the bugs and disease attack weak plants.
5. DuPont adds on 15% for other things such as replacing your turf etc. If you have to resod your lawn, fix ruts etc. one should consider about $15/sq yard because of all the labor and materials. You can reseed, but many of the properties I've been on find that seed may not germinate or when it does it curls up and dies. Ask DuPont what kind of grass seed they recommend for replanting.
6. You are lucky you don't have irrigation in your yard.

Hope this answers your questions.

Tree Lover
05-24-2012, 12:48 PM
Thank you Aircorp for answering my questions. We would like you to share pictures. Just go to the reply area and below you will see the advanced yellow button. Click on that. you will then be in a box with icons above where you type. you will see a small paperclip there by a white smily face. click on that you can then upload photos. Thanks again for your info. and please keep us posted on other news you hear or info on settlements you have heard of.

AIRCORP
05-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Starbuy

1. To my knowledge no one has been successful with a counter offer.
2. No one has added a time line for payment to their resolution offer.
3. It takes a long time to get paid.
4. Are you getting interest on the monetary loss you incurred in 2011 from the day the first tree started to decline? Interest at some fair and equitable rate. Well, DuPont is getting interest on every dollar they can keep in the bank without having to pay property owners. Did you think about that?

If you want to ask me questions. Please number them. It is very time consuming for me to go through and pick out your questions. I'm real busy today. I'll chat more tomorrow.

Thank you

Starbuy
05-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Thanks AirCorp. Yes, I'll number any questions I might have. Please don't feel obligated to answer, you will not come across rude. We all have duties and can't be on here all the time.

I have my property value loss and of course the longer this goes on the more loss.

1. What interest % have your clients been demanding at this point to be including in their civil cases?

Starbuy
05-24-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm surprised there aren't more people that have demanded Dupont guarantees compensation by a certain date after a person approves. Must be some very trusting people to think they'll eventually get paid their due compensation by a company who refuses to tell the claimant that if they approve the settlement offer they will be sent the full amount within x days. I've got to have that in writing, otherwise they could legally delay payment for who knows how long and then your only recourse would be to try to file suit for breach of settlement contract. Of course, the property owner will have already signed away their right to sue Dupont for Imprelis issues. Amazing.

Starbuy
05-24-2012, 03:51 PM
WBNS, the CBS affiliate in Columbus Ohio, just did a small news story on Imprelis damage featuring 1 property owner who's still waiting on Dupont. Unfortunately for that homeowner, her claim is being handled with the group that her LCO submitted, which may be slowing things down for some who's LCO didn't fill out everything completely. Not saying that happened in this case, but I know it has happened and causes the claim to be slowed down while Dupont tries to get more information (such as if the LCO did not checkmark whether the homeowner has hired an attorney). A simple oversight like that can cause long delays.

See: http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/05/23/delaware-some-blaming-herbicide-company-for-dying-dead-trees.html

cindyb
05-24-2012, 04:51 PM
If I understand the Florida Supreme court ruling, this group of attorneys didn't do their clients right on the Benlate settlement. The tree company was expecting about $200,000.00 so the attorney kept the rest? So they were collecting part of the clients money and working with Dupont?

The Florida Bar brought separate disciplinary actions against the four named partners of the firm alleging that they committed misconduct by engaging in a secret “engagement agreement” with the DuPont Corporation, solely for their own financial benefit, while they were representing the clients in the Benlate cases against DuPont..

cindyb
05-24-2012, 04:56 PM
duplicate message

cindyb
05-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Star, nice story. I didn't understand the "Company officials told 10TV News that Imprelis might have caused the damage and they stopped selling the product". Might have caused?

Starbuy
05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
For those who are newly researching the Imprelis disaster here's a little more background on one of the reasons why Dupont is in hot water:

"EPA: DuPont Knew Imprelis Herbicide Could Damage Trees"by Todd Heft on August 15, 2011 in Environment
http://www.bigblogofgardening.com/epa-dupont-knew-imprelis-herbicide-could-damage-trees/

"The EPA investigation revealed that DuPont actually knew of Imprelis’ potential to damage evergreens, but never included this information on Imprelis’ product label."

cindyb
05-25-2012, 03:12 PM
Star, a question?

New York and California never gave their approval to Imprelis, believing that the product required further testing.

I take it they did finally approve since they have companies listed for services on the dupont site.

Starbuy
05-25-2012, 03:50 PM
Star, a question?



I take it they did finally approve since they have companies listed for services on the dupont site.

LCO's could get their hands on the stuff even in states that it may have not been permitted in yet. Maybe there was some of the product being sold through secondary markets from one person to another such as on eBay or other sites like this one where pros connect. So many ways to get products through state or even national borders. Maybe some distributors were selling it into those states at a certain point thinking all was clear.

cindyb
05-27-2012, 08:42 PM
A really good time line
http://www.biocycle.net/2011/09/epa-bans-imprelis-herbicide/

cindyb
05-27-2012, 10:57 PM
dupont mailing some checks after news story

http://www.freep.com/article/20120525/NEWS06/205250443/Checks-begin-arriving-for-damages-from-DuPont-herbicide-Imprelis?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

Starbuy
05-29-2012, 10:04 AM
I'd like to remind every property owner that you may only have another year or less to file in court against Dupont for Imprelis damage due to the 2 year statute of limitations. Look at the date of the initial spraying of Imprelis on your lawn (or adjacent properties) and count two years from that. But, it might be concluded that you could proceed within 2 years of the resulting damage, so that would mean as you see damage this summer then there may be two years from that (consult an attorney). There are reports now of further damage on trees, shrubs and plants just showing up now and more to come as we hit dry spells and the plant sucks up more of that toxin.

Also, reportedly the Imprelis toxin has been known to migrate hundreds of yards from the initial application site as water takes it down to lower elevations. Keep an eye on the top new growth to see the new growth clustering or curling. What we see on the canopy is just the tip of the iceberg, as the roots below reportedly show even more damage and the plant can't take in the nutrients resulting in a slow death. Some professionals have not seen any actual recovery even from category 1 plants. Seems once it's hit it will eventually die or at the very least be permanently deformed and stunted...what recovery is that? Disclosure: I have no position in Dupont stock nor any plans to take a position (long or short) within the next year.

Still waiting on my first offer from Dupont to arrive and will evaluate it, but I have even more damage since the last two site visits and costs to fix all this have gone way up. Not looking good for Dupont.

Also, I understand insurance companies are refusing to pay one dime for Dupont's blunder; not to property owners and not to Dupont at this point since the insurance companies believe Dupont knew enough of the dangers and went ahead anyhow in marketing this chemical allegedly without proper labeling. Wouldn't want to be holding DD shares, that's for sure. But, that's just my perspective on their stock. Wait til their shareholders find out more and let's see if Dupont's insurance will even pay a penny for this.

AIRCORP
05-29-2012, 11:13 AM
Hi Cindy

I really can't comment on what happened in Florida with these attorneys. If you give me more information I may be able to offer an opinion on this. Obviously, if the Florida Supreme Court offered this ruling, there had to be something wrong with what the attorneys were doing.

I would suggest that you do not use this one instance to characterize attorneys in general. I'm not an attorney, but I've worked for many attorneys. Since 1993 I've only seen one attorney try to "cheat" their clients. In the end, that attorney was very upset because he ultimately had to face the consequences for his actions. He got what he deserved, and, the client also got what she deserved in the end.

Good attorneys will "root out" bad attorneys.

If I understand the Florida Supreme court ruling, this group of attorneys didn't do their clients right on the Benlate settlement. The tree company was expecting about $200,000.00 so the attorney kept the rest? So they were collecting part of the clients money and working with Dupont?

.

AIRCORP
05-29-2012, 11:15 AM
No, New York and California never agreed to Imprelis applications in their states.


Star, a question?



I take it they did finally approve since they have companies listed for services on the dupont site.

cindyb
05-29-2012, 12:37 PM
Power outages and storms here, computer isn't working well.

Thanks for the updates.

Watty
05-30-2012, 12:00 AM
Clarification to my above comment:

"Dupont has stated that it is completely within the rights of property owners to reject that and demand that the amount of the compensation relating to tree removal also be paid directly to the property owner so the property owner can choose who they want working on their property."

The offer I received included "Tree removal service to be provided by Dupont" listing a dollar amount value of that service. My counter offer letter asked for the dollar amount in lieu of the service. I simply stated that I prefer to make the arrangements myself. If they agreed to that, I would have settled. After a month of waiting, I received another copy of the original offer along with a letter stating that my counter offer was "REJECTED" After several attempts to speak with someone at Dupont about this detail, a representative finally did contact me. I was informed that the ONLY OPTION was for Dupont to make the arrangements...take it or leave it.

AIRCORP
05-30-2012, 12:08 AM
There may be other reasons for this. DuPont may not want you to measure the tree once it hits the ground and you find that they did not measure the tree correctly and perhaps under estimated its value.

Now what are you going to do?

The offer I received included "Tree removal service to be provided by Dupont" listing a dollar amount value of that service. My counter offer letter asked for the dollar amount in lieu of the service. I simply stated that I prefer to make the arrangements myself. If they agreed to that, I would have settled. After a month of waiting, I received another copy of the original offer along with a letter stating that my counter offer was "REJECTED" After several attempts to speak with someone at Dupont about this detail, a representative finally did contact me. I was informed that the ONLY OPTION was for Dupont to make the arrangements...take it or leave it.

Starbuy
05-30-2012, 09:16 AM
The offer I received included "Tree removal service to be provided by Dupont" listing a dollar amount value of that service. My counter offer letter asked for the dollar amount in lieu of the service. I simply stated that I prefer to make the arrangements myself. If they agreed to that, I would have settled. After a month of waiting, I received another copy of the original offer along with a letter stating that my counter offer was "REJECTED" After several attempts to speak with someone at Dupont about this detail, a representative finally did contact me. I was informed that the ONLY OPTION was for Dupont to make the arrangements...take it or leave it.

Welcome Watty. I see you're new here. Thank you for your input.
Just a few questions:
1. How many site visits were done and when was your claim sent in and by whom?
2. Did you ever have any site visit done besides from the LCO (or are you the LCO)? Did Dupont send Davey Tree to measure your trees/shrubs with laser?
3. When did you receive the first offer from Dupont and how long was it from the time the claim was submitted?
4. What was the total $ compensation they offered you and for how many trees/shrubs/plants (heights and type)?
5. What state are you located in?

Are you affiliated with any law firm at this time?

Thanks for any information you care to give us. It would be most helpful!

Watty
05-30-2012, 11:08 AM
1. How many site visits were done and when was your claim sent in and by whom?

One site visit. Claim was submitted by a Dupont rep who did site visit with the Davey person

2. Did you ever have any site visit done besides from the LCO (or are you the LCO)? Did Dupont send Davey Tree to measure your trees/shrubs with laser?

The lawn service I used put me in touch with Dupont. Yes, my trees were laser measured by a Davey person.

3. When did you receive the first offer from Dupont and how long was it from the time the claim was submitted?

Claim submitted Nov. 8, 2011. Offer received March 20, 2012. I sent my response on March 27 and then received "After careful consideration, we are writing to inform you that Dupont does not accept your counter-offer" on May 1, 2012


4. What was the total $ compensation they offered you and for how many trees/shrubs/plants (heights and type)?

35 total trees (Norway Spruce, giant arborvitae, white pines) ranging from 7-23 feet. Including the $6150 value of the tree removal service to be provided...a total of $42,523

5. What state are you located in?

Massachusetts

I am countering again with what the height of the trees would have been after 2 growing seasons rather than what they were when damaged.

Starbuy
05-30-2012, 12:26 PM
Thank you for your answers!!

I'm going to demand 3 years worth of growth since I've already been told I should not plant for a good 3 years due to the severity of the toxin in surrounding soil that can still migrate into the new soil. I'd have to be allowed to dig up my neighbor's whole lawn down 4 feet to prevent that so that's not going to happen.

My claim was submitted before yours and I've had 2 site visits (Sept. and Oct.) and I haven't even received their first offer.

Getting ready to just present my demands, give them 14 days to respond (since I've already waited so long) and they'll know if no response favorable to a settlement with me than I'll be going with an attorney and filing. They want to pay triple, so be it.

bailter
05-30-2012, 12:47 PM
I have over 80 trees and shrubs affected by imprelis. This spring I planted 10 douglas fir transplants and 10 norway pine plugs. All except one are growing fine in the imprelis area that killed and these trees. The only one that didn't do well was a fir tree that had the original needles/branches die, but had new buds that look OK. I wished I had remembered to order some spruce trees and try them also, but at least the ones I tried so far are doing well. You might want to try this yourself if you can still order some spruce tree transplants. They don't cost too much and would tell you a lot about what's still in the soil.

cindyb
05-30-2012, 04:18 PM
Thank you for your answers!!

I'm going to demand 3 years worth of growth since I've already been told I should not plant for a good 3 years due to the severity of the toxin in surrounding soil that can still migrate into the new soil. I'd have to be allowed to dig up my neighbor's whole lawn down 4 feet to prevent that so that's not going to happen.

My claim was submitted before yours and I've had 2 site visits (Sept. and Oct.) and I haven't even received their first offer.

Getting ready to just present my demands, give them 14 days to respond (since I've already waited so long) and they'll know if no response favorable to a settlement with me than I'll be going with an attorney and filing. They want to pay triple, so be it. I'm still waiting, claim went in July, DuPont checked again in April. More deformed growth since the check.

1. How many site visits were done and when was your claim sent in and by whom?

One site visit. Claim was submitted by a Dupont rep who did site visit with the Davey person

2. Did you ever have any site visit done besides from the LCO (or are you the LCO)? Did Dupont send Davey Tree to measure your trees/shrubs with laser?

The lawn service I used put me in touch with Dupont. Yes, my trees were laser measured by a Davey person.

3. When did you receive the first offer from Dupont and how long was it from the time the claim was submitted?

Claim submitted Nov. 8, 2011. Offer received March 20, 2012. I sent my response on March 27 and then received "After careful consideration, we are writing to inform you that Dupont does not accept your counter-offer" on May 1, 2012


4. What was the total $ compensation they offered you and for how many trees/shrubs/plants (heights and type)?

35 total trees (Norway Spruce, giant arborvitae, white pines) ranging from 7-23 feet. Including the $6150 value of the tree removal service to be provided...a total of $42,523

5. What state are you located in?

Massachusetts

I am countering again with what the height of the trees would have been after 2 growing seasons rather than what they were when damaged.

Wow 35 trees. What's the latest on planting? New soil?

Starbuy
05-30-2012, 04:42 PM
I have over 80 trees and shrubs affected by imprelis. This spring I planted 10 douglas fir transplants and 10 norway pine plugs. All except one are growing fine in the imprelis area that killed and these trees. The only one that didn't do well was a fir tree that had the original needles/branches die, but had new buds that look OK. I wished I had remembered to order some spruce trees and try them also, but at least the ones I tried so far are doing well. You might want to try this yourself if you can still order some spruce tree transplants. They don't cost too much and would tell you a lot about what's still in the soil.

Did you already remove the dead ones and try planting in the same holes? Are the new ones you planted near any slope where the toxic ground slopes into the new tree area and how far down did you replace soil and how far out? Just curious. Did the ones you used to have in those areas completely die or were they just damaged (of course damaged ones would die anyhow). Hearing from arborists that they haven't seen any affected tree actually make a recovery. Of course, they tend to look at the roots too in order to see whats ahead for that plant's future.

One other question. Did you receive an offer yet from Dupont for the 80 trees?

Starbuy
05-30-2012, 04:47 PM
[QUOTE=Watty;4428500]
4. What was the total $ compensation they offered you and for how many trees/shrubs/plants (heights and type)?

[B]35 total trees (Norway Spruce, giant arborvitae, white pines) ranging from 7-23 feet. Including the $6150 value of the tree removal service to be provided...a total of $42,523

5. What state are you located in?

Massachusetts[QUOTE]

What an insulting offer by Dupont. Just pathetic. It's as if they want to pay more money when you take them to court. Glad I'm not a DD investor with that kind of crisis management. You want to settle with people, not push them into the court process where your company loses even more. Just amazing.

cindyb
05-30-2012, 05:23 PM
I guess they think after this long, we'll settle for whatever they offer us.

Was going to make blackberry jam since I did wine last year. Guess not, my berries that are growing are deformed, the rest bloomed and fell off.

bailter
05-30-2012, 06:45 PM
The dead ones are still there in their same spot. I planted these downhill from those dead ones about 10 feet away and a 2 foot drop. The ones that were there were either completely dead or more than 50% dead.

Like most everyone else, I am still waiting for a letter from Dupont. I am sure I will have to reject it as trees have become MUCH worse and some that weren't even rated have now shown injury. I have had two tree replacement companies in to look at the trees, and they say about half of those trees will not recover (at least as a tree.............might survive as a really ugly bush because the top is dead and surrounding branches are dead).


Did you already remove the dead ones and try planting in the same holes? Are the new ones you planted near any slope where the toxic ground slopes into the new tree area and how far down did you replace soil and how far out? Just curious. Did the ones you used to have in those areas completely die or were they just damaged (of course damaged ones would die anyhow). Hearing from arborists that they haven't seen any affected tree actually make a recovery. Of course, they tend to look at the roots too in order to see whats ahead for that plant's future.

One other question. Did you receive an offer yet from Dupont for the 80 trees?

Starbuy
05-31-2012, 08:23 AM
After I receive Dupont's offer packet and if it's unsatisfactory, I may then just send back a rejection letter without including any actual $ figure demand in it (probably wouldn't do any good anyhow since they seem to want to protect their Davey Tree backroom deal to provide them the removal money instead of the property owner). My reason is that the $ figure would end up growing as I head to court with attorneys and I don't want Dupont bringing up an old direct proposal from me showing I would have settled for a lower figure than what I would demand through courts. It's obvious if we file the costs go way up in order for the attorneys to get their part and property owners still get what they deserve and more since we have to go through even more time and trouble in this process if Dupont continues to be unreasonable in their direct resolution process. They are digging themselves in a hole as we have to dig out all their toxin. Meanwhile, for the attorneys these cases are really a walk in the park, albeit a park with dead trees, but you get my meaning. Slam dunk cases for the most part. Still can't justify paying 40% commission + undetermined fees for such a walk in the park case. I'm glad to hear more law firms realizing if they want a piece of this they are willing to take a third + minimal fees between 0% to at that most 2% due to the fact they can discount work done by hiring investigator/researchers for all their like cases at same time and the fact they'll save a lot by probably not even having to go through the whole court process. Yes, they do work and deserve a third, but come on, these are among the easiest kinds of cases since Dupont's already accepted blame to many in the public. I have friends who are attorneys and know there are some really good ones that we can trust. I'm not against them making money on this. They deserve to as well as anyone who has to work on my property to fix this as best they can. But, I'm the victim and I deserve proper compensation and good law firms absolutely recognize that and the good ones fight for the victim and in turn they come out winners to (and more long term business).

Starbuy
05-31-2012, 08:54 AM
I want to clarify a bit on my above comment. The friends I spoke of who are attorneys are not handling any of these cases nor will I be hiring them. I was just trying to convey my sentiment about good attorneys.

Also, forgive my mispellings as I tend to type on here fast and don't take time to use spell check usually for something as informal as a forum.

AIRCORP
05-31-2012, 10:51 AM
Hi Everyone.

Yesterday was another day in the field for me. I want to discuss a few points here.

1. Wally, you want to estimate 3 years of additional growth. I have the growth rate for every major tree involved. I use these data in my damage model analysis models. It is very reliable from the USDA and can withstand the scrutiny of the court. Let me know what trees you have and I can send you those growth numbers. But, it is three years, not two.

2. Leaves are fully expanded on most trees here in Missouri and expected 2012 growth is almost complete. I evaluated red maples yesterday. Hope you are all sitting down and your pace makers are tuned up.

From my preliminary work I found a control tree not sprayed with Imprelis, same variety, same soil type, planted about the same time but not sprayed with Imprelis. Then I compared this to trees growing on imprelis lawns.

The Imprelis maples showed no apparent injury if you stood back from a distance. But up close you could see obvious chemical injury. Then, I looked at the annual limb growth.

Each year a limb will grow in response to environmental stimulii, and also be influenced by human factors such as irrigation, fertilizer and chemical applications. Thus, if Imprelis did slow tree growth you could look at the annual limb growth and compare with other trees or with previous year's growth.

There are clear "scars" on the small limbs that show each year where growth stopped. These scars usually look like a cluster of thin rings around the limb. If you take a ruler you can measure each distance between scars and determine annual growth. Try it.

Now, the control Red Maple w/o Imprelis measured about 13 inches long for this years growth. Here are the Imprelis tree measurements for this year. 1.12; 0.5; 0.25 for one tree and 2.0 and 2.25 for the other. About an 80% reduction in growth or more. Then, you can look at 2011 growth, last year, what did Imprelis do last year: 1.87; 1.87; 2.12; on one tree and 2.6; 2.25 on the other.

Here is my first attempt at posting a photograph. The treated tree limbs are two years of growth. The center limb, not treated, is just from this year's growth.

AIRCORP
05-31-2012, 11:28 AM
Ok, back again.

So, you can see from the photograph I just sent, you all may have some serious issues to deal with. How many of you have hardwood trees that appear weak? And spruce that show little or no growth this spring?

Why can't an apparently healthy spruce tree put out new buds this year? Look at it, the terminal buds appear brown, dead, maybe some new axillary buds trying to pop out behind the terminal.

Ask yourself why?

Because ALL trees and plants on your property have been impacted by Imprelis. Every single plant on your property. You may not see the injury at first, the tree looks ok from a distance, but now, you can begin to look close.

In my opinon:

1. The toxin is still in the soil and causing injury in many areas of the country.

2. Property owners may lose 5 years of normal growth or more before the trees recover, if they recover, you know, they can go the other way and decline over the five years and you have firewood standing in your front yard and your Dec 31, 2013 guarantee DuPont gives you is long forgotten.

3. Trees decline slowly folks. Some faster than others. I saw this in the last DuPont investigation I worked on from 1993 to 2001 with their product Benlate.

4. Trees that don't put on new growth, why..... they don't have the energy reserves to do so. They are growing weaker. Their root systems are damaged and they can't take up water and nutrients. Leaves are light green to yellow in some cases. That means there is no chlorophyll in the leaves folks. You have to have "green" chlorophyll for photosynthesis to manufacture sugars for the tree to live on.

5. Don't let DuPont bully you into a quick settlement like they are doing with Wally. You should be compensated for all of your "lost growth" at a reasonable rate of say $150 to $200 per foot of lost growth depending on the tree size etc.

6. A red maple will grow 1.8 feet per year in the wild according to the USDA. How fast will it grow in your well fertilized and irrigated lawn? But, let's just use the wild growth number 1.8 x 5 = 9 feet. 80% loss is about 7 feet x $150 = $1050 per tree. Do you think this is a stretch of the imagination? This is based on my preliminary work, but, let's assume I'm wrong and it is only 1/2 of what I claim, that is still $500 bucks.

7. Imagine your trees 5 years from now and what they would look like? AFter all, why did you plant trees? Wasn't it with the expectation that they would grow and develop into something you wanted in your back yard? DuPont has taken those expectations away from you and you don't even realize it. So many people do not see what is happening here.

8. Then, how did DuPont measure your tree last fall or whenever they came out? They took a measurement based on the "current" condition of the tree. Ask yourself, I couldn't replant last year, I can't replant this year, maybe, just maybe it will be safe to replant next year. OK

9. So, the replant next year won't grow very much. And, you run the risk of a continued impact of Imprelis on the tree, maybe not, maybe so, even DuPont doesn't know.

10, Therefore, if DuPont didn't poison your tree in 2011, how large would it be at the end of 2013? Shouldn't DuPont pay you for what the tree would have looked like in the fall of 2013? They stole three years of growth, or most likely more like 4 years depending on the size of your replant.

11. In the case of red maple, a 20 foot tree in 2011 would be compensated at $1910, this is DuPont's value, not mine. 3 yrs x 1.8 feet = 5.4 feet. DuPont's value for a 25.4 ft tree is::::: == $3500. That is about a $1500 difference. You just lost another $1500.

12. To those who still think it is best for them to negotiate on their own without the assistance of legal expertise, how far do you think you are going to get with DuPont on your own? Look at Wally, all he wanted to do was have his trees cut down by someone else is how I understand it. Think people, think.

13. I'm not an attorney, I am a plant scientist, I offer no legal advice or suggestions of any kind. None. I just do my job as a plant scientist and report what I see. My findings are just preliminary. Additional research may prove me wrong and that is ok. That is what the scientific method is all about, discovering false and misleading science that can result in erronous expectations. Do not rely on my work since it has not been tested by other reliable scientists and DuPont. They should have a chance to evaluate these opinions of mine and offer their own opinions. I strongly recommended that you contact DuPont and request they conduct their own studies to insure that "good" science and economics will prevail in the analysis and financial evaluation of this toxic event.

That's it.

Have a great day.

Starbuy
05-31-2012, 12:06 PM
AIRCORP, your input here is priceless. I'm sure every property owner would agree. Thank you for taking the time to educate us!!!

cindyb
05-31-2012, 12:43 PM
AIRCORP, your input here is priceless. I'm sure every property owner would agree. Thank you for taking the time to educate us!!!

Amen. I guess I should thank Dupont for giving me plenty of time to study and consider the present and future damage. I sure don't want my property labeled as a hazardous soil site and me take the blame.

Star, this article from Perdue says the same thing you are saying, its not just our trees (bushes, fruits, vegetables, flowers and anything else in the way)

1. Site location. Identical trees on two different sites may be valued quite differently. For example, a large, healthy tree in a remote location on a golf course fairway would not rate as highly as the same tree in a residential yard.

2. Functional and aesthetic value. Trees function as visual screens, windbreaks, climate moderating elements, architectural elements, sculpture, background, framing and unifying elements, in air purification, and can provide cover for wildlife. An evaluation of the tree’s role in the landscape is essential to accurately assign a location value.

The pdf hasn't been updated since 06 but I'd say their figures and values are still the same http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO_201.pdf

My tree company (the one that Dupont has on the list) measured my trees in base inches. I have my estimate from the tree company on 2 inch trees so I have a good idea

Location, condition, tree base, cross section, class tables are all there with value of species.

Starbuy
05-31-2012, 02:08 PM
Cindy, that link is excellent as well as your keen observations on the real value differences being noted between how much more appraisal value there is in a tree on a residential property compared to that same tree on a golf course, due to various reasons described in that link. Dupont's attempt to treat everything as one-value-fits-all price per foot simply doesn't add up according to true appraisal studies on real estate.

Just more papers to add to my potential courtroom arsenal of information. I'm the type of person that just because I have an attorney for something and their appraisers doesn't mean I don't look after everything and have input throughout. Just like I never let someone manage my money blindly, but keep tabs on everything and make moves accordingly when markets turn or when I know they are about to. I helped some protect and even make money during 2007/2008 when the markets headed down because I told them to ignore their money managers who said everything was rosey in 2007 (some listened, some didn't). I knew in the summer of 2007 we were headed for a deep recession because I study, study, study. It pays to stay on top of what we own and protect what we've worked so hard for and same goes for our landscape value. Just my views.

cindyb
05-31-2012, 02:35 PM
Well we've had plenty of time to study.

I was watching the ducks climb out of my pool last night (don't ask) and head to the shade tree. Huge drop in temperature when the trees block the sun. Guess that's why people plant shade trees by their houses. Truefully that needs to be factored in. We've already hit record temps here, 90's and its not even summer. My trees go, my shade goes and my AC runs longer. How long till I can grow a tree that size?

Another thing that I thought about is, when we had the pool built, our driveway is a special aggregate concrete, the trucks carted the heavy stuff in from the road. Not possible with the tree company's equipment. What is it going to do to my driveway and the lateral lines that run across my yard?

Starbuy
05-31-2012, 03:09 PM
Cindy, you're the first person I've heard from that has brought up the increased energy costs the Imprelis damage may cause homeowners due to lack of shade from the damaged trees that must be removed and possibly years until the new ones grow to the full sizes some people enjoyed. ANOTHER cost to add in to any settlement or court case. Hope law firms are taking notes.

It will be very illuminating to find out years from now how many plants, shrubs and trees that will be forever removed from this nation due to Imprelis and the side effects caused from the loss of that plant life; truly a man-made environmental catastrophe.

cindyb
05-31-2012, 03:42 PM
Cindy, you're the first person I've heard from that has brought up the increased energy costs the Imprelis damage may cause homeowners due to lack of shade from the damaged trees that must be removed and possibly years until the new ones grow to the full sizes some people enjoyed. ANOTHER cost to add in to any settlement or court case. Hope law firms are taking notes.

It will be very illuminating to find out years from now how many plants, shrubs and trees that will be forever removed from this nation due to Imprelis and the side effects caused from the loss of that plant life; truly a man-made environmental catastrophe.

I'm sure a lot of people are taking notes, can't just be us here with all the views. I remember not having air conditioning growing up, just a ceiling fan and sitting under the shade trees.

cindyb
05-31-2012, 03:49 PM
From Forestry

1. Trees Produce Oxygen
Let's face it, we could not exist as we do if there were no trees. A mature leafy tree produces as much oxygen in a season as 10 people inhale in a year. What many people don't realize is the forest also acts as a giant filter that cleans the air we breath.

2. Trees Clean the Soil
The term phytoremediation is a fancy word for the absorption of dangerous chemicals and other pollutants that have entered the soil. Trees can either store harmful pollutants or actually change the pollutant into less harmful forms. Trees filter sewage and farm chemicals, reduce the effects of animal wastes, clean roadside spills and clean water runoff into streams.

3. Trees Control Noise Pollution
Trees muffle urban noise almost as effectively as stone walls. Trees, planted at strategic points in a neighborhood or around your house, can abate major noises from freeways and airports.

4. Trees Slow Storm Water Runoff
Flash flooding can be dramatically reduced by a forest or by planting trees. One Colorado blue spruce, either planted or growing wild, can intercept more than 1000 gallons of water annually when fully grown. Underground water-holding aquifers are recharged with this slowing down of water runoff.

5. Trees Are Carbon Sinks
To produce its food, a tree absorbs and locks away carbon dioxide in the wood, roots and leaves. Carbon dioxide is a global warming suspect. A forest is a carbon storage area or a "sink" that can lock up as much carbon as it produces. This locking-up process "stores" carbon as wood and not as an available "greenhouse" gas.

6. Trees Clean the Air
Trees help cleanse the air by intercepting airborne particles, reducing heat, and absorbing such pollutants as carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide. Trees remove this air pollution by lowering air temperature, through respiration, and by retaining particulates.

7. Trees Shade and Cool
Shade resulting in cooling is what a tree is best known for. Shade from trees reduces the need for air conditioning in summer. In winter, trees break the force of winter winds, lowering heating costs. Studies have shown that parts of cities without cooling shade from trees can literally be "heat islands" with temperatures as much as 12 degrees Fahrenheit higher than surrounding areas.

8. Trees Act as Windbreaks
During windy and cold seasons, trees located on the windward side act as windbreaks. A windbreak can lower home heating bills up to 30% and have a significant effect on reducing snow drifts. A reduction in wind can also reduce the drying effect on soil and vegetation behind the windbreak and help keep precious topsoil in place.

9. Trees Fight Soil Erosion
Erosion control has always started with tree and grass planting projects. Tree roots bind the soil and their leaves break the force of wind and rain on soil. Trees fight soil erosion, conserve rainwater and reduce water runoff and sediment deposit after storms.

10. Trees Increase Property Values
Real estate values increase when trees beautify a property or neighborhood. Trees can increase the property value of your home by 15% or more.

http://forestry.about.com/od/treephysiology/tp/tree_value.htm

cindyb
05-31-2012, 04:00 PM
This one is in my binder http://www.nacdnet.org/resources/reports/carbon_storage.phtml

One more that's local
https://louisville.edu/kppc/krec/krec-publications/Carbon%20Forum%20Summary%20web%2012-17-09.pdf

Benefits of Biological CO2 Sequestration
Kentuckians can take advantage of the future demand for carbon offsets by selling their sequestered carbon in the marketplace. Though carbon markets are currently in their infancy, and prices are often subject to political and policy changes, these markets continue to grow and will offer a new way for landowners to reap a financial benefit from their activities.
Carbon credit buyers are essentially buying a promise that a particular amount of carbon dioxide will remain sequestered for at least 15 years. For this reason, buyers require proof that the investment is verifiable and monitored. Aggregators, organizations that verify, monitor and combine carbon offsets, fill this need. Aggregators facilitate the process of verification and monitoring while helping landowners find buyers for their offsets. Additionally, aggregators combine the offsets provided by many different landowners into one larger contract. This helps mitigate the risk of loss from natural disaster, theft or other type of reduction in CO2 storage capacity.

In Kentucky, aggregators are already at work helping Kentuckians sell their offsets. The Kentucky Corn Growers Association (KYCGA) and the Mountain Association for Community Economic Development (MACED) currently aggregate farm and forest offsets, respectively.

Starbuy
06-01-2012, 03:14 PM
Another report has been published of property owners who accepted Dupont's offer yet haven't heard anything back for Dupont. Even their LCO can't even get Dupont to acknowledge that the signed offers were received. USPS certified mail has to be signed for in order for it to be delivered, but even though you may have that proof it doesn't mean the claims department in Dupont has looked at the signed documents yet, only that it was delivered and accepted by a Dupont mail receiver.

Also reportedly many finding out the offers are way too low. No response to their rejection letters was noted in the link below.

An LCO suffered a stroke and was hospitalized reportedly due to the stress this Imprelis disaster allegedly caused him and his clients. Very sad. I hope he's doing better.

"Tree owners, lawn care pros still guessing about payment after alleged DuPont herbicide damage" - by MLive http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/05/dupont_imprelis_claims.html

cindyb
06-01-2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks for the article.

He says the stress of the whole thing put him in the hospital with a minor stroke.

“It’s been intense,” he said. “All fingers were pointing at us, the applicators. As a small business, that was tough.”

Hope he is OK too, it hasn't been a picnic at our house either. I feel even worse for the older people like that couple that should be enjoying their yards and retirement and have to deal with this.

I've sit and worried now that the vegetables I grew and gave away, were they safe. Same with the wine, wondering if I should toss it.

Starbuy
06-01-2012, 04:17 PM
Speaking strictly on the strength of Imprelis (aminocyclopyrachlor methyl herbicide) action of certain plant life, it is reportedly four times more powerful than Agent Orange. Kind of scary isn't it? Here's a link about Agent Orange: http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/OtherCarcinogens/IntheWorkplace/agent-orange-and-cancer

cindyb
06-01-2012, 04:29 PM
Speaking strictly on the strength of Imprelis (aminocyclopyrachlor methyl herbicide) action of certain plant life, it is reportedly four times more powerful than Agent Orange. Kind of scary isn't it? Here's a link about Agent Orange: http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/OtherCarcinogens/IntheWorkplace/agent-orange-and-cancer

Any LCO's reading? How often do you all have physicals and bloodwork and xrays, that is flat out scary.

Ubetit
06-04-2012, 10:30 AM
I've had three visits and not a peep. The first visit was a Dupont rep very early on. They said I was one of the first 10 to complain in Columbus or Ohio, can't remember. Second visit was my lawn care company (Weedman) that did all my paperwork and pictures. The third visit was with Dupont, Davey and Weedman. It appears that they were "checking up" on his claims. I was glad I was here that day as i picked the Davey tree guy's brain for an hour. I put all my trees and most of my other vegetation on a new claim after that visit in late march.

Starbuy
06-04-2012, 10:45 AM
Currently, I still have not received an offer from Dupont even though my first site visit was done in September and a second one in October. Although Dupont has said they are working as fast as possible and have allocated 200 staff to this process it is obvious they are NOT reviewing and sending out offers in order of when they received the claim. Is it possible those of us who have repeatedly called them and kept up with this and who seem knowledgeble about our true monetary loss are the ones being delayed in a stack of 'more costly problem properties'?

Here are a variety of reports about Imprelis that may or may not have already been mentioned, but just consolidating a few here:

"Imprelis victims still waiting for DuPont fix"-http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012305270018&nclick_check=1

"Dupont uses Imprelis on their own Country Club and suffered damage"
http://blogs.delawareonline.com/delawareinc/2011/07/28/duponts-herbicide-attacks-trees-on-dupont-property/

"DuPont knew about damage, studies show" - by Jonathan Starkey, "According to DuPont's test data, which was provided to the EPA on July 28 as a part of the agency's investigation, "certain coniferous trees, including Norway spruce and balsam fir, are susceptible to being damaged or killed by the application of Imprelis."
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/delawareonline/access/2423960981.html?FMT=ABS&date=Aug+13%2C+2011

Starbuy
06-04-2012, 10:47 AM
I've had three visits and not a peep. The first visit was a Dupont rep very early on. They said I was one of the first 10 to complain in Columbus or Ohio, can't remember. Second visit was my lawn care company (Weedman) that did all my paperwork and pictures. The third visit was with Dupont, Davey and Weedman. It appears that they were "checking up" on his claims. I was glad I was here that day as i picked the Davey tree guy's brain for an hour. I put all my trees and most of my other vegetation on a new claim after that visit in late march.

Welcome to the thread! What month did your claim first get submitted with the measurements?

Ubetit
06-04-2012, 11:05 AM
Welcome to the thread! What month did your claim first get submitted with the measurements?

Late October

Starbuy
06-04-2012, 11:12 AM
I'm currently reviewing a number of law firms and their retainer contracts to see who I may retain in this Imprelis matter. Since Dupont is dragging their feet and the statute of limitations is in view next year, it looks like I won't be waiting for their offer anymore. The direct resolution process Dupont set up seems hopeless in my case especially if they are insisting some of the work such as removal be done by a third party such as Davey Tree. That's ridiculous since all compensation for damages should go to the property owner and they should be the ones to hire who they want coming on their property.

Davey Tree in northeast Ohio won't even give estimates to Imprelis victims without a fee (deposit if you use them), while they've always given free estimates for any other tree removal you want done. My impression of Davey Tree has really been impacted by this behavior. I might have used them, but not anymore.

Ubetit
06-04-2012, 11:18 AM
My feeling from the start was to retain counsel. I decided to let Weedman deal with it in the interim.

Obviously Davey has a financial interest in this process as they are being paid by Dupont. Their impartial judgement is long gone.