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Smallaxe
03-08-2012, 09:17 AM
I've stuggled with this for years now....

Every Spring there are large areas of dead turf because of 5 months of urination there...
Every Spring I overseed and spend the season trying to stay ahead of the game...

What has anyone out there learned about dog urine damage that has actually helped??? :)

RodneyK
03-08-2012, 10:16 AM
I have our dogs "go" in a common area, not in my lawn. If I had to have them go in our yard it would not be a grassed area. It would be mulched or some other material even fake grass that would be fenced off or other.

Probably not quite the info you are looking for but after tons of research I do not think there is an option. Only thing is to water the spots down after they go, not very practical.

Smallaxe
03-08-2012, 10:31 AM
I have our dogs "go" in a common area, not in my lawn. If I had to have them go in our yard it would not be a grassed area. It would be mulched or some other material even fake grass that would be fenced off or other.

Probably not quite the info you are looking for but after tons of research I do not think there is an option. Only thing is to water the spots down after they go, not very practical.

I agree with you... Now if my clients would be willing to give up, "The Best of Both Worlds", I'd be set to go...

I've had moderate success, doing a number of different things, but it's not perfect yet... so a couple of new ideas would be helpful...

It is kind of a fun research project, that I'm getting paid, quite well, to conduct... :)

bigslick7878
03-08-2012, 01:03 PM
I have found that male dogs are MUCH less damaging to the lawn than females. Had a female for 13 years, lawn looked like **** in that "area". They always squat...on the lawn every single time.

Have a male now, and he just pisses on vertical objects in the yard and keeps the lawn pissing to a minimum. Whether it be the fence, or the support post holding up my roof over the patio is is hardly ever on the lawn.

crazymike
03-08-2012, 03:43 PM
I'm not sure if this is the exact spray I used when I had a big dog, but it was similar.

http://www.cleanairgardening.com/lawn-dog-protectant-rtu.html

The problem is not with grass itself, the urine changed the soil levels. To fix this you need to make soil amendments, not just over seed it.

http://www.ehow.com/video_4755106_rid-grass-dog-urine-spots.html

That guy recommends using madina soil amendment

crazymike
03-08-2012, 03:45 PM
I have our dogs "go" in a common area, not in my lawn. If I had to have them go in our yard it would not be a grassed area. It would be mulched or some other material even fake grass that would be fenced off or other.

Probably not quite the info you are looking for but after tons of research I do not think there is an option. Only thing is to water the spots down after they go, not very practical.

I don't think letting your dogs pee on fake grass would be a very good decision...

they probably wouldn't like it, because it would most likely splash up on them
and it would really stink after about a week

crazymike
03-08-2012, 03:46 PM
I should mention, you can get dog sprays/soil amendmants that have a green dye in them that covers the spot with green while the nutrients adjust the soil content.

RigglePLC
03-08-2012, 04:15 PM
You need a big bucket of pre-germinated perennial ryegrass seed. Add some annual rye if you want for faster germination. Get one of the types that have a large seed size as they come up fast. Just sprinkle seed on the spots as they appear. Use plenty of seed--seed is cheaper than labor in a situation like this. Let the customer rake it in if he has time. A 5 gal bucket of topsoil can be used to sprinkle a bit of soil on top to help get good seed to soil contact--not really needed if you use an excess of seed. Naturally, a sprinkling system or at least a sprinkler timer will keep the grass more green and thick and help that new seed come up and fill in.

Naturally if you intended to make money on this you should include a product that claims to help or neutralize the problem--I don't think any of them actually do much--but its worth a shot. Mix it with the special seed you supplied, and charge an arm and a leg for your trouble, (and the cleaning of your boots.)

Naturally you can resod the spots. Cut them out square, and patch with a 12 inch square of sod. Quick, easy and looks nice--but you may need to keep some sod on hand, if there is no convenient supply. Charge big bucks and with a bit of experience and a sod tool, you can do a spot in 60 seconds.

RodneyK
03-08-2012, 05:50 PM
http://www.k9grass.com/product.html

Smallaxe
03-09-2012, 08:56 AM
You need a big bucket of pre-germinated perennial ryegrass seed. ...

Thanks for the reminder Riggle...

I was going to replicate your experiment(for this very purpose) in which you pre-soaked the seed and dried it out again before planting... Is that correct?

As I recall your best results were from a 72 hour soak... How am I doing so far?

Smallaxe
03-09-2012, 09:26 AM
I was thinking about trying this "Lawn Protectant" or Medina "Soil Activator", depending on what the science is behind them... Sugar/Molasses applications on a regular basis seems to help and I've tried compost, but the jury is still out on that idea...

The most important thing is absolutely No NPK apps at all.

Thanks for the ideas, everyone...
I'll be running experiments throughout this summer as well.

The client wants what he wants, and we are getting the lawn to look a little nicer each year... :)

Kiril
03-09-2012, 09:51 AM
You need a big bucket of pre-germinated perennial ryegrass seed. Add some annual rye if you want for faster germination. Get one of the types that have a large seed size as they come up fast. Just sprinkle seed on the spots as they appear. Use plenty of seed--seed is cheaper than labor in a situation like this. Let the customer rake it in if he has time. A 5 gal bucket of topsoil can be used to sprinkle a bit of soil on top to help get good seed to soil contact--not really needed if you use an excess of seed. Naturally, a sprinkling system or at least a sprinkler timer will keep the grass more green and thick and help that new seed come up and fill in.

Naturally if you intended to make money on this you should include a product that claims to help or neutralize the problem--I don't think any of them actually do much--but its worth a shot. Mix it with the special seed you supplied, and charge an arm and a leg for your trouble, (and the cleaning of your boots.)

Naturally you can resod the spots. Cut them out square, and patch with a 12 inch square of sod. Quick, easy and looks nice--but you may need to keep some sod on hand, if there is no convenient supply. Charge big bucks and with a bit of experience and a sod tool, you can do a spot in 60 seconds.

If your intent is to just quickly fill in the bare spot then rye will work, but consider the type of grass you have and the color/texture differences of what you use before going down this road. Nothing screams homeowner or amateur more than a lawn with spots of grass that are different texture and color.

Kiril
03-09-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm not sure if this is the exact spray I used when I had a big dog, but it was similar.

http://www.cleanairgardening.com/lawn-dog-protectant-rtu.html

The problem is not with grass itself, the urine changed the soil levels. To fix this you need to make soil amendments, not just over seed it.

http://www.ehow.com/video_4755106_rid-grass-dog-urine-spots.html

That guy recommends using madina soil amendment

Just use water and save yourself the money.

RigglePLC
03-09-2012, 11:49 AM
Actually, I could not find my original post. At April 8, 2011, seed planted outside at temperatures of about 35 to 50...the earliest germination was from seed pre-soaked 24 hours and then dried. (9 days, compared to 17 days for untreated seed, and 15 days for seed soaked 72 hours). Very cold temps for growing grass of course.

Same batch of seed soaked 24 hours and planted July 16, 2011, was one-half inch tall at 96 hours after planting. Temps 90 day and 70 night.
Untreated and 72 hour soaked (and then dried and stored) seed arose about a day later. Seed was covered with about one-fourth inch of topsoil.

Be sure to charge the customer extra for your trouble. Customer cannot buy pre-germinated seed.

Smallaxe
03-09-2012, 04:36 PM
Actually, I could not find my original post. At April 8, 2011, seed planted outside at temperatures of about 35 to 50...the earliest germination was from seed pre-soaked 24 hours and then dried. (9 days, compared to 17 days for untreated seed, and 15 days for seed soaked 72 hours). Very cold temps for growing grass of course.

Same batch of seed soaked 24 hours and planted July 16, 2011, was one-half inch tall at 96 hours after planting. Temps 90 day and 70 night.
Untreated and 72 hour soaked (and then dried and stored) seed arose about a day later. Seed was covered with about one-fourth inch of topsoil.

Be sure to charge the customer extra for your trouble. Customer cannot buy pre-germinated seed.

Thanks Riggle... So, I can soak the seed for 24 hours, then dry, for a quicker germination period... I will wait till the ground warms to around 55 degrees...

It shouldn't be that much seed to dry as only small amounts are required to regrow those spots...

For drying,,, Did you just spread the soaked seed out on newpaper or something and let it air dry that way??

Redline9k
03-12-2012, 10:31 AM
same problem, one male, one female on 6k sqft of TTTF.

I found that once i get the lawn going in the spring, if i set the sprinkler to turn on for about 5-10min every other morning in the zone that covers their "spot", it waters it down enough to not cause any damage throughout the growing season.

Smallaxe
03-13-2012, 07:44 AM
same problem, one male, one female on 6k sqft of TTTF.

I found that once i get the lawn going in the spring, if i set the sprinkler to turn on for about 5-10min every other morning in the zone that covers their "spot", it waters it down enough to not cause any damage throughout the growing season.

That is another strategy that we use, 'the daily rinse'... we still get some damage... what kind of grass do you have???

Redline9k
03-13-2012, 08:45 AM
tall fescue....cut very long (3.5" +)

Coincidentally, it also seems that spreading compost in 1/4" -1/2" layer in the fall neutralizes alot of the spotting over the winter. Not sure if theres a science behind it, but I did that in the fall when I overseeded, and see almost no spotting at this point in the year when things are regrowing.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-13-2012, 09:19 AM
Not sure this is mentioned but add a dollop of tomato juice to their meals and it will eliminate the issue.

Kiril
03-13-2012, 09:40 AM
same problem, one male, one female on 6k sqft of TTTF.

I found that once i get the lawn going in the spring, if i set the sprinkler to turn on for about 5-10min every other morning in the zone that covers their "spot", it waters it down enough to not cause any damage throughout the growing season.

Not really a good idea as it throws any chance of good irrigation management out the window. Keep your dogs well hydrated, try to train them to do their business in areas where some damage can be tolerated and lay off the ferts and other salt inputs. If it really concerns you, drag a hose around or get a watering can and hit the spots right after they go.

I posted a pic in the other thread you started a while back showing a dog spot on a compost only managed lawn that is nitrogen deficient with the turf just starting to perk up in the spring. I'll post it again here.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195321&stc=1&d=1280421278

Smallaxe
03-14-2012, 12:35 AM
Not really a good idea as it throws any chance of good irrigation management out the window. Keep your dogs well hydrated, try to train them to do their business in areas where some damage can be tolerated and lay off the ferts and other salt inputs. If it really concerns you, drag a hose around or get a watering can and hit the spots right after they go.

I posted a pic in the other thread you started a while back showing a dog spot on a compost only managed lawn that is nitrogen deficient with the turf just starting to perk up in the spring. I'll post it again here. ...

The important thing to note, in this particular case is that the client isn't interested in how he should, "hydrate " his dogs... Nor is he going to put any special effort into 'training' his dogs to go elsewhere...

So far ,,, the most interesting discovery of how excessive urea from dogs' urine becomes evenly distributed across the lawn is from the molasses laid down on a regular basis...

While you may have a " Perfect Vision " of how irrigation needs to be carried out , in a " Perfect Environment" , dedicated to growing grass; it must be understood that none of the rules apply when it comes to a client with dogs...

It may be easy for you to insist that the dog owner, conform to your worldview, so that each 'pigeon hole' is accounted for in your clinical trials,, However,,I prefer to 'learn' how we may combine the sum total of our knowledge to display the very best that,,, intelligent professionalism, has to offer...

At some point we must acknowledge that, turf that is constantly assaulted by urine,, isn't going to fit in the 'box' that all other research defines...

Imagine a world in which the status quo, does not apply...
We're going beyond :)

Kiril
03-14-2012, 01:08 AM
Another irrelevant rant from Axe.

Point is dude, if the homeowner isn't going to take steps to keep the dog from ruining the lawn, then they will just have to live with the damage. Over irrigating isn't a solution. Now if you knew the first thing about proper plant, irrigation and soil management, then you might understand this simple fact.

Smallaxe
03-15-2012, 07:15 AM
Another irrelevant rant from Axe.

Point is dude, if the homeowner isn't going to take steps to keep the dog from ruining the lawn, then they will just have to live with the damage. Over irrigating isn't a solution. Now if you knew the first thing about proper plant, irrigation and soil management, then you might understand this simple fact.

A "properly irrigated" lawn, full of dog spots. or a rinsed lawn, with more green grass... Stupid clients: !!! they hire us to do what they don't have time for... they can just live with their probrlems!!! :laugh:

Kiril
03-15-2012, 07:18 AM
A "properly irrigated" lawn, full of dog spots. or a rinsed lawn, with more green grass... Stupid clients: !!! they hire us to do what they don't have time for... they can just live with their probrlems!!! :laugh:

Post bookmarked for next time you rant about irrigation and thatch.

Smallaxe
03-15-2012, 07:36 AM
Post bookmarked for next time you rant about irrigation and thatch.

Daily rinse for dop spots is necessity... over-irrigating/fertilizing for thatch is stupid... "lessor of 2 evils", actually has legitimate meaning in this particular case...

Strangely enough, w/out any fert and the usage of molasses, and the daily rinse being short-term sprinkling, there is no thatch on this lawn... :)

Kiril
03-15-2012, 07:58 AM
Whatever axe ..... git ur dun.

RigglePLC
03-15-2012, 11:29 AM
I am conducting experiments pre-germinating grass seed. Results in about 5 days. Or maybe sooner if it stays warm. In theory, you can repair dog spots in about a week, maybe two. Soak for 24,48, 72 hours.

phasthound
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Smallaxe & Kiril in another pissing match.
Sorry, I couldn't resist myself. :)

Smallaxe
03-16-2012, 08:14 AM
I am conducting experiments pre-germinating grass seed. Results in about 5 days. Or maybe sooner if it stays warm. In theory, you can repair dog spots in about a week, maybe two. Soak for 24,48, 72 hours.

The way the weather is going I may be doing this in a couple of weeks... this will be a good study to stick with throughout the summer, IMO...
Keep us informed as to how it goes for you as the temps continue to warm... :)