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Landscape Poet
03-10-2012, 06:04 PM
Here it is short and sweet.

New neighbor moves in on my block. I do my best to ensure that no other turd is caring for homes on my block especially. I offer monthly service of mow, trim and edge on this lots for $75 as they are all under 3.5 K of turf.

See the new neighbor that I have not had a chance to meet yet talking to some yahoos with tacky looking magnetic signs all over their truck declaring they are a lawn service. This guys appear to be winners!:rolleyes: I make not and pay the guy a visit next day.

Me: Hi neighbor...I live right up the block and run a lawn service. I noticed you were talking to some other guys yesterday and would like to discuss the possiblity of caring for your lawn.


Neighbor: Great...can you provide full service.

Me: Yes , what would you like, mow edge trim, pest control on the lawn and shrubs as well and shrub trimming.

Neighbor: Yes all of it please.

Me: Great ...let me measure you lawn and I will be right back with you.

Guy has 2.8 K of turf area. One viburnum about 4 foot high and 6 or 7 Foot long. One Sago and One Queen Palm.

I figure min stop for my pest provider for lawn $60 but charge the customer $70 for my billing as $35.00 a month.

Everything else in my control $97.00 - This includes mowing edging and trimming and trimming the shrubs which on average takes less than 15 minutes per lot on this block. Add a few minutes for pest control on shrubs and the occasional granular fert.

Total Bill out the door for the Guy.....$132.00 I am thinking this is a steal.


Me. Sir you total for everything is going to be $132.00 a month

Neighbor: That is way higher than the guys yesterday told me.

Me. Sir...this includes your pest and weed control on the lawn as well as fertilizer, shrubs care, shrub trimming and weekly mowing.

Neighbor... Yes there price did to.

Me...sir how much higher am I than them.

Neighbor....they were $80 a month for everything.

Me. Sir are they licensed to apply to your lawn.

Neighbor: No...they are using True Green for the Lawn and doing the shrubs themselves.

Me: Sir....I see you have a Mercedes slk 55 amg in the driveway. That tells me you like quality and do not mind paying for it. Do you understand that with True Green I really do not feel you will get the quality you are looking for and some of the weeds that you pointed out will still be here. There are aphids on your shrubs now and scale on your Sago as well and I have a feeling you will still have them in two months...so is it better to just pay now for the quality and not for later.

Neighbor: I will switch to you in two months if the weeds are still here and the pest are not gone from the shrubs.



So I leave and think about it. If they are subbing Tru Brown out.....say at $30 every two months which is less than $10 a K which is still a lousy price for them for this size lot.....that is taking $15.00 a month off their price.
So for weekly lawn service including shrub trimming and shrub care they are at $65.00 a month!:confused::confused:


Anyone else seeing prices this low? I thought the economy was getting better not worse. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

Florida Gardener
03-10-2012, 06:20 PM
Here it is short and sweet.

New neighbor moves in on my block. I do my best to ensure that no other turd is caring for homes on my block especially. I offer monthly service of mow, trim and edge on this lots for $75 as they are all under 3.5 K of turf.

See the new neighbor that I have not had a chance to meet yet talking to some yahoos with tacky looking magnetic signs all over their truck declaring they are a lawn service. This guys appear to be winners!:rolleyes: I make not and pay the guy a visit next day.

Me: Hi neighbor...I live right up the block and run a lawn service. I noticed you were talking to some other guys yesterday and would like to discuss the possiblity of caring for your lawn.


Neighbor: Great...can you provide full service.

Me: Yes , what would you like, mow edge trim, pest control on the lawn and shrubs as well and shrub trimming.

Neighbor: Yes all of it please.

Me: Great ...let me measure you lawn and I will be right back with you.

Guy has 2.8 K of turf area. One viburnum about 4 foot high and 6 or 7 Foot long. One Sago and One Queen Palm.

I figure min stop for my pest provider for lawn $60 but charge the customer $70 for my billing as $35.00 a month.

Everything else in my control $97.00 - This includes mowing edging and trimming and trimming the shrubs which on average takes less than 15 minutes per lot on this block. Add a few minutes for pest control on shrubs and the occasional granular fert.

Total Bill out the door for the Guy.....$132.00 I am thinking this is a steal.


Me. Sir you total for everything is going to be $132.00 a month

Neighbor: That is way higher than the guys yesterday told me.

Me. Sir...this includes your pest and weed control on the lawn as well as fertilizer, shrubs care, shrub trimming and weekly mowing.

Neighbor... Yes there price did to.

Me...sir how much higher am I than them.

Neighbor....they were $80 a month for everything.

Me. Sir are they licensed to apply to your lawn.

Neighbor: No...they are using True Green for the Lawn and doing the shrubs themselves.

Me: Sir....I see you have a Mercedes slk 55 amg in the driveway. That tells me you like quality and do not mind paying for it. Do you understand that with True Green I really do not feel you will get the quality you are looking for and some of the weeds that you pointed out will still be here. There are aphids on your shrubs now and scale on your Sago as well and I have a feeling you will still have them in two months...so is it better to just pay now for the quality and not for later.

Neighbor: I will switch to you in two months if the weeds are still here and the pest are not gone from the shrubs.



So I leave and think about it. If they are subbing Tru Brown out.....say at $30 every two months which is less than $10 a K which is still a lousy price for them for this size lot.....that is taking $15.00 a month off their price.
So for weekly lawn service including shrub trimming and shrub care they are at $65.00 a month!:confused::confused:


Anyone else seeing prices this low? I thought the economy was getting better not worse. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

This is a company who does not know how to price IMO and will be out of biz very quick. We have plenty of subdivisions like yours here with way more landscaping that guys will do for $80-$100/mo. I really mean a lot more landscaping too. Let fm have it. They will either stop showing up or just do a poor job until they get fired.
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Landscape Poet
03-10-2012, 06:46 PM
This is a company who does not know how to price IMO and will be out of biz very quick. We have plenty of subdivisions like yours here with way more landscaping that guys will do for $80-$100/mo. I really mean a lot more landscaping too. Let fm have it. They will either stop showing up or just do a poor job until they get fired.
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Diamond ...the price for mowing and trimming would not surprise me as it has been up here for a couple years too...but to include the shrub care including pesticide and fert....wow is all I have to say.

I have no doubt that I will pick him up in two months as the weeds will still be in the lawn and the color will still lack. And that will be fine as I am not hurting for business and really do not care as it is just a pride thing with me not wanting another service on my block. Kind of like a dog marking his territory...but for that price I can not and will not lift my leg to mark it.:laugh::nono::nono:

Florida Gardener
03-10-2012, 06:52 PM
Diamond ...the price for mowing and trimming would not surprise me as it has been up here for a couple years too...but to include the shrub care including pesticide and fert....wow is all I have to say.

I have no doubt that I will pick him up in two months as the weeds will still be in the lawn and the color will still lack. And that will be fine as I am not hurting for business and really do not care as it is just a pride thing with me not wanting another service on my block. Kind of like a dog marking his territory...but for that price I can not and will not lift my leg to mark it.:laugh::nono::nono:
Oh right I missed that part.... Even worse then.
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Day off?
03-10-2012, 07:13 PM
I have that same problem in certain areas. One sub division in specific Country Walk / Meadow Pointe.

Landscape Poet
03-10-2012, 07:21 PM
I have that same problem in certain areas. One sub division in specific Country Walk / Meadow Pointe.

I have not came across this until now. Cheap mowing...sure....cheap mowing and shrub trimming sure...they come and they go...but now they are getting into the chemical applications as well (not True Green we all known they have been around) but the shrub side of it. That is just crazy IMHO.

DLCS
03-10-2012, 07:34 PM
I will not work in my neighborhood, did it years ago and the neighbors always expect something for free.

Day off?
03-10-2012, 07:43 PM
I have not came across this until now. Cheap mowing...sure....cheap mowing and shrub trimming sure...they come and they go...but now they are getting into the chemical applications as well (not True Green we all known they have been around) but the shrub side of it. That is just crazy IMHO.

That's just ridiculous. Companies like that kill us! It makes it so hard to charge a reasonable rate. $132 per month for everything is incredibly cheap! Now I'm pissed for you!

Ric
03-10-2012, 07:54 PM
I will not work in my neighborhood, did it years ago and the neighbors always expect something for free.

Yep Goes right along with my ""Don't make your friends your customer, but make your customers your friend""


Mikey you can't win them all. It is better to back off and let the chips fall where they may. If you push too hard now, when TG/CL and the $ 80 a month total cost falls flat or gives $ 80.00 worth of service, they just might call if you didn't make him mad.


.

Landscape Poet
03-10-2012, 08:15 PM
Yep Goes right along with my ""Don't make your friends your customer, but make your customers your friend""


Mikey you can't win them all. It is better to back off and let the chips fall where they may. If you push too hard now, when TG/CL and the $ 80 a month total cost falls flat or gives $ 80.00 worth of service, they just might call if you didn't make him mad.


.

No Ric,

I did not make him made and that is my plan and his as well. He agreed to stay with them to give them a shot and I can respect that. It is more the prices that really caught me off guard. I explained some of the the differences and I think I left him with a good impression.....so I expect to gain this account in a few months when the results are just not evident.

01thump
03-11-2012, 01:04 PM
I am dealing with a new customer now who wants the world for free i refuse to lower my price or my standards to give him what he wants ..i am sure we will be parting ways shortly and i am fine with that..i try to only work with customers who appreciate my hard work and efforts..i have been lucky that ALL of my accounts have come to me by word of mouth i have not advertised ever,no sign or number on any of my trailers or rig...i do not let other peoples low ball price or offers effect me i know i do good work and know i will be around for a while....

MR-G
03-11-2012, 10:23 PM
we give them all what they want...they want cheap...we can do it...they want full service...we can do it...they want cheap full service...not a problem....but if and when they want quality....well, that they need to pay for.....first thing we always ask a new potential client is "what is your budget" ? we have been in business over 25 yrs and can say that there is no one price/quality/ or type of service that fits all.....we always try to get them to tell us what they are willing to pay....and then we explain what they can expect (or not expect) for that rate....it has served us well.....what all of us here sell is "time & knowledge" and nothing more or less...the client needs to decide how much of our time and knowledge they would be willing to purchase.....

Landscape Poet
03-12-2012, 01:24 PM
we give them all what they want...they want cheap...we can do it...they want full service...we can do it...they want cheap full service...not a problem....but if and when they want quality....well, that they need to pay for.....first thing we always ask a new potential client is "what is your budget" ? we have been in business over 25 yrs and can say that there is no one price/quality/ or type of service that fits all.....we always try to get them to tell us what they are willing to pay....and then we explain what they can expect (or not expect) for that rate....it has served us well.....what all of us here sell is "time & knowledge" and nothing more or less...the client needs to decide how much of our time and knowledge they would be willing to purchase.....

Any issues with the lower quality of service affecting you ability to sell propery services to neighboring properties or lowering your ability to sell your services in the surrounding area because of the lower quality of service agreed to by the original client?
I can see your point of selling what you can when you can as some neighborhoods although they may be nice neighborhoods...they do not care if the shrubs are kept tight etc....but they do want the lawn to look nice over all. I would think the only fallback of this is like I said that some customers who might be interested in your service never approach you because they doubt your ability to provide quality based on these type of accounts.

jvanvliet
03-12-2012, 05:22 PM
If I own the market in an area, we'll cut a lawn for free rather than let anybody else's truck in my market. Just saying, if it's on the block along with a bunch of others, I'd rather not have :gunsfirin competition come in.

RussellB
03-12-2012, 06:11 PM
Landscape poet, why would you bring his Mercedez up? Who cares what he drives? Maybe it is financed to the hilt. I'll be honest with you, when I see some of the high dollar rigs and equipment some of you all drive I wonder what the customer thinks? Damn, that guy must be high and making a killing. Jvanvliet, why would you do a yard for cheap/free just to keep someone else out? Doesn't make sence. I bid and move on. My work speaks for itself.

jvanvliet
03-12-2012, 06:33 PM
Landscape poet, why would you bring his Mercedez up? Who cares what he drives? Maybe it is financed to the hilt. I'll be honest with you, when I see some of the high dollar rigs and equipment some of you all drive I wonder what the customer thinks? Damn, that guy must be high and making a killing. Jvanvliet, why would you do a yard for cheap/free just to keep someone else out? Doesn't make sence. I bid and move on. My work speaks for itself.

Figure of speech; keeping a market in one area makes eminent sense to me, specially if it's all on the same couple of blocks.

MR-G
03-12-2012, 09:19 PM
Any issues with the lower quality of service affecting you ability to sell propery services to neighboring properties or lowering your ability to sell your services in the surrounding area because of the lower quality of service agreed to by the original client?
I can see your point of selling what you can when you can as some neighborhoods although they may be nice neighborhoods...they do not care if the shrubs are kept tight etc....but they do want the lawn to look nice over all. I would think the only fallback of this is like I said that some customers who might be interested in your service never approach you because they doubt your ability to provide quality based on these type of accounts. As a matter of fact the exact opposite seems to keep happening.....nobody want to be known as the "cheapskate" of the neighborhood by taking the bottom priced service...so they almost always upgrade to a higher level of service.....our marketing clearly shows our different levels of service...and honestly most of our clients go for the mid to higher end pricing for the better quality...but in this economy we feel it is good business to offer a cheaper alternative should some need it....in some cases the lower end work is actually more profitable and much less demanding !!!

MR-G
03-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Any issues with the lower quality of service affecting you ability to sell propery services to neighboring properties or lowering your ability to sell your services in the surrounding area because of the lower quality of service agreed to by the original client?
I can see your point of selling what you can when you can as some neighborhoods although they may be nice neighborhoods...they do not care if the shrubs are kept tight etc....but they do want the lawn to look nice over all. I would think the only fallback of this is like I said that some customers who might be interested in your service never approach you because they doubt your ability to provide quality based on these type of accounts. As a matter of fact the exact opposite seems to keep happening.....nobody wants to be known as the "cheapskate" of the neighborhood by taking the bottom priced service...so they almost always upgrade to a higher level of service.....our marketing clearly shows our different levels of service...and honestly most of our clients go for the mid to higher end pricing for the better quality...but in this economy we feel it is good business to offer a cheaper alternative should some need it....in some cases the lower end work is actually more profitable and much less demanding !!!

Landscape Poet
03-12-2012, 11:42 PM
Landscape poet, why would you bring his Mercedez up? Who cares what he drives? Maybe it is financed to the hilt. I'll be honest with you, when I see some of the high dollar rigs and equipment some of you all drive I wonder what the customer thinks? Damn, that guy must be high and making a killing. Jvanvliet, why would you do a yard for cheap/free just to keep someone else out? Doesn't make sence. I bid and move on. My work speaks for itself.


Because Russel B - In this game it is about being able to read the customer and understand what they will pay. It is about reading there emotions and their desires and making them work in your favor. IMHO if you have not figured that out...you could potentially be leaving money on the table.

With someone who drives a Mercedes - it is not that they just want the flashy looking care - if they did they could by a mustang GT etc - they want the engerneering that went into that car because they care about quality they like fine things and are not afraid to pay a little extra for them.
Knowing little differences like this usually tell you how and what to sell the customer if you are worth a damn at sales. With the same breathe if you try to sell quality to the person driving a 1996 ford taurus with more rust than pain - you are almost starting out losing the battle. That is not to say you can not make just as much off this person but package and present it in a manner which shows value.

Noticing little ques like what they wear etc will tell you where you can price too. Rob from here on lawnsite should be able to tell you about last year when I went with him to bid a sod job. He asked my opinion on a certain price point and if he thought it was too high for the customer. I informed him that she was wearing Louis Vuitton prescription glasses....she liked nice things and as long as he presented quality...she would buy. He sold that sod at well above market rate.

So Russel....does that answer your question on why I would mention his car....we cut grass for a living........but how we do so and are profitable is by understanding sales, people and their wants and needs and emotions.

Landscape Poet
03-12-2012, 11:44 PM
As a matter of fact the exact opposite seems to keep happening.....nobody want to be known as the "cheapskate" of the neighborhood by taking the bottom priced service...so they almost always upgrade to a higher level of service.....our marketing clearly shows our different levels of service...and honestly most of our clients go for the mid to higher end pricing for the better quality...but in this economy we feel it is good business to offer a cheaper alternative should some need it....in some cases the lower end work is actually more profitable and much less demanding !!!

I could see that working. The middle class are the ones that will most likely never choose the lowest cost if offered a difference as they have often learned that it often is not the best value. That the middle of the road is the best value to them.

Thanks for the refresher.

Landscape Poet
03-12-2012, 11:48 PM
If I own the market in an area, we'll cut a lawn for free rather than let anybody else's truck in my market. Just saying, if it's on the block along with a bunch of others, I'd rather not have :gunsfirin competition come in.

I couldn't agree with you more Jvannliet to a extent....but when it comes to the L and O work there are certain cost that just can not be overlooked and a profit has to be made.

I would of gladly cut this guys grass at the price mentioned and turned a profit doing so as it would literally took us just minutes each week without unloading or reloading the trailer. But the issue is this....I would most likely not meet the quality he sees throughout the neighborhood at those prices....and it would be a short lived relationship.
I figure letting them fail and then me to take over at the higher price will make for a more solid long term relationship.

Florida Gardener
03-12-2012, 11:53 PM
Because Russel B - In this game it is about being able to read the customer and understand what they will pay. It is about reading there emotions and their desires and making them work in your favor. IMHO if you have not figured that out...you could potentially be leaving money on the table.

With someone who drives a Mercedes - it is not that they just want the flashy looking care - if they did they could by a mustang GT etc - they want the engerneering that went into that car because they care about quality they like fine things and are not afraid to pay a little extra for them.
Knowing little differences like this usually tell you how and what to sell the customer if you are worth a damn at sales. With the same breathe if you try to sell quality to the person driving a 1996 ford taurus with more rust than pain - you are almost starting out losing the battle. That is not to say you can not make just as much off this person but package and present it in a manner which shows value.

Noticing little ques like what they wear etc will tell you where you can price too. Rob from here on lawnsite should be able to tell you about last year when I went with him to bid a sod job. He asked my opinion on a certain price point and if he thought it was too high for the customer. I informed him that she was wearing Louis Vuitton prescription glasses....she liked nice things and as long as he presented quality...she would buy. He sold that sod at well above market rate.

So Russel....does that answer your question on why I would mention his car....we cut grass for a living........but how we do so and are profitable is by understanding sales, people and their wants and needs and emotions.
Mike I understand where your coming from but russel brings up an excellent point. Dont judge book by cover. There are plenty of people around here who drive those kind of cars, but can't really afford them. I've run into plenty of wannabes who drive the nice car, but wobt spend the money needed to do a great job. There's one really really high end gated hood around me. If you drove through you would prob be shocked at what these people drive. Toyotas, hondas, etc. These are multi multimillion and billionaires too. They can afford 10 Mercedes if they want, but they don't need to prove anything....just saying.
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greendoctor
03-13-2012, 12:34 AM
Good points. I look for old money and not wannabees or pretenders. There are many neighborhoods where there are brand new luxury cars, in a garage in a multimillion dollar house. Their car has passes to enter both the country clubs and a private school or else decals indicating there are offspring going to an Ivy League or Cal college. I stay away from those places, they are for the rats that weed whack a lawn for $25 a cut. Whack and blow. That is all they can afford. My usual client has been in their house for a while. Their car is not new, but is well taken care of. There is also no sign of children in private schools or elite colleges. They are not spend thrifts either. What is expected is good care of the lawn and landscape, not a rip out and re do every 5 years. BTW, the rip out and re do is a common move of the wannabees. They cannot handle paying for more than a whack and blow, but changing out grass and shrubs for thousands is ok. Short sighted and money foolish. I do not think I have ever costed more than a rip out and re do if my fees were added up over a 5 year period.

jvanvliet
03-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I couldn't agree with you more Jvannliet to a extent....but when it comes to the L and O work there are certain cost that just can not be overlooked and a profit has to be made.

I would of gladly cut this guys grass at the price mentioned and turned a profit doing so as it would literally took us just minutes each week without unloading or reloading the trailer. But the issue is this....I would most likely not meet the quality he sees throughout the neighborhood at those prices....and it would be a short lived relationship.
I figure letting them fail and then me to take over at the higher price will make for a more solid long term relationship.

You make a valid point, but I hate competition in my market. That's why a service agreement is vital.

Ric
03-13-2012, 12:03 PM
I look for old money and not wannabees or pretenders.

Green

I disagree.

Besides the Big Names everyone knows there are a ton of Trust Fund Babies with huge money. It is the Old Trust Fund Babies that ONLY KNOW HOW TO KEEP MONEY NOT MAKE IT. They are in a click that starts with their Pre School and grammar school education so they can get in a Ivy League school. They are trained in the social graces so they can be a professional nothings with CLASS. Image is everything so they will beat up on the pool Cleaner or Yard Boy for $ 5.00 a month and go to the club to drink $ 500 Champagne because their peers see them. Their view of money and value is scued.

New Money has been different in my case. Sure everyone likes a bargin and their are those Cheap xxxx. But for the most part I find those who know how to make money, Spend money if they get Value.



.

Florida Gardener
03-13-2012, 12:39 PM
Green

I disagree.

Besides the Big Names everyone knows there are a ton of Trust Fund Babies with huge money. It is the Old Trust Fund Babies that ONLY KNOW HOW TO KEEP MONEY NOT MAKE IT. They are in a click that starts with their Pre School and grammar school education so they can get in a Ivy League school. They are trained in the social graces so they can be a professional nothings with CLASS. Image is everything so they will beat up on the pool Cleaner or Yard Boy for $ 5.00 a month and go to the club to drink $ 500 Champagne because their peers see them. Their view of money and value is scued.

New Money has been different in my case. Sure everyone likes a bargin and their are those Cheap xxxx. But for the most part I find those who know how to make money, Spend money if they get Value.



.
Ric I agree with the Doc. Trust fund babies are spoiled and don't appreciate hard work where their grandparents do and don't try to nickel and dime you to death. My best clients are 50 and older and they all pay the best. The yuppies that drive the range rovers and Mercedes are some of the cheapest...
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Patriot Services
03-13-2012, 12:50 PM
They are probably using TG's new generic app price of 19.99. In two more months of warm temps and rains he will have a more serious weed problem than the yahoo's (both operations) will be able to fix for 80 bucks.
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greendoctor
03-13-2012, 03:39 PM
Ric I agree with the Doc. Trust fund babies are spoiled and don't appreciate hard work where their grandparents do and don't try to nickel and dime you to death. My best clients are 50 and older and they all pay the best. The yuppies that drive the range rovers and Mercedes are some of the cheapest...
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Trust fund babies are the worst. What I look for is old money that has had to work for it. Better still is if they are still working for it. It is rare for me to deal with anyone under 50 as well. In my area, new money fits the profile I have laid out. They might have an expensive house and new cars, but none of it is paid off.

Ric
03-13-2012, 06:40 PM
Ric I agree with the Doc. Trust fund babies are spoiled and don't appreciate hard work where their grandparents do and don't try to nickel and dime you to death. My best clients are 50 and older and they all pay the best. The yuppies that drive the range rovers and Mercedes are some of the cheapest...
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Chris

Did I not make myself clear. Old Money Trust Fund Babies are the worst to do business with. They are spoiled and have a false sense of entitlement. They are Trained to be snobs from youth with their Prep Clothing and Penny Lofer shoes.



.

Plantculture
03-14-2012, 08:44 PM
Trust fund babies are the worst. What I look for is old money that has had to work for it. Better still is if they are still working for it. It is rare for me to deal with anyone under 50 as well. In my area, new money fits the profile I have laid out. They might have an expensive house and new cars, but none of it is paid off.

In these parts, we consider old money as folks who are trust fund babies, but for a couple generations deep. So technically they have not had to work for it. These are the folks that in general are well educated, often very down to earth, have a lot of class and taste, and will pay for a high quality service and are very generous to charity.
Doc what you describe is actually new money around here. Folks what you describe are all over the map and I have a mix of them. So I tend not to generalize as to who make better clients. I've found its all about the individual.

Ric
03-14-2012, 10:25 PM
In these parts, we consider old money as folks who are trust fund babies, but for a couple generations deep. So technically they have not had to work for it. These are the folks that in general are well educated, often very down to earth, have a lot of class and taste, and will pay for a high quality service and are very generous to charity.
Doc what you describe is actually new money around here. Folks what you describe are all over the map and I have a mix of them. So I tend not to generalize as to who make better clients. I've found its all about the individual.

IMHO New Rich are the best customer because The earned their money and as stated before are willing to pay for Quality. In general I agree with Plantculture's Trust Fund Baby Definition.


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Landscape Poet
03-14-2012, 10:43 PM
If it matters to anyone...I do not care if Great Great Great Great Grandma had it stuffed up her bungholieo since the Titantic Sank......or if they just hit the lottery and went from trailer to Estate .......as long as their checks are on time and they clear....everything else does not matter to me as I am not new money or old money.