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PaulJ
12-08-2002, 03:12 AM
I got a video from perma green the other day. now I want one. but I want every new piece of equipment I see:D

If I had lots of fert accounts and lots of $$ I would get one of these. They did have somehting very interesting at the end of the video. It is a spray add on for puch spreaders. It used the same pump/nozzels as the rideon unit but with battery power and a couple one gallon tanks. this looked like an affordable option. A way to spread fert and spray in one pass without the expence of a ride on unit. I would like to start with this and work up to the ride on one.

What do you all think??

How well does the low volume sprayers work???
Is there much drift?? is it very unforgiving with over lap and rate or speed?? with that high consentration of chemical I'm sure great care must be taken. would there be too much room for error with a push spreader to make this safe???

I guess I still don't fully understand the low volume spray consept:dizzy: forgive me.

This time of year I find myself with alot of time to think and one of the things I think about is efficiencey and how I can improve mine.

thanks for bearing with me

Runner
12-08-2002, 03:11 PM
Can you imagine what it would feel like PUSHing a spreader with 75# of dry fert. AND 5 gallons of liquid sloshing around and swaying in the tank? No thank you. I'll pull a hose, and/or spread granular. Now, with a POWER unit, such as the PG, that's a whole different story! Now you're talking production!

KLR
12-08-2002, 07:15 PM
we have a couple of ride-on machines and on every push spresder we have perma greens spray tank attached. ours are older, i think the newer ones have changed some. ours are 3 gallon tanks, they spray about a 7 ft wide patern and we get 24k sq ft out of the 3 gallons. they supply 2 batteries per unit. so one stays plugged int cigarette lighter while the other one is working.

i was concerned about the added weight when we first got them. #1- i was worried about applicator's wrist, forearms getting wearry.
#2- i was worried about the lesco spreaders we have them on getting stressed and frame cracking.

niether has been a problem. I would highly recommend them. definately a time saver. allows you the benifit of appling a granular fert while getting good weed control with liquid.

cost us $350 per unit then, not sure if price has changed much.

I'd say go for it, it will make you more productive, which makes you more $$$

ant
12-08-2002, 08:01 PM
didowith klm.
anthony

PaulJ
12-08-2002, 10:25 PM
That sounds promising KLR.

The video I saw had a 1gallon tank on each side of the spreader(like saddle bags).
It said it used the same pump as the ride-on so it would use the same spray concentrarion/rate.
Have you had any problems using the low volume/high concentrateion spray. What are the controls like?
I asked my lesco dealer about this and he didn't seem to know much. He just cationed against the low volume/high concentrateion. Didn't specify any problems.

My expierience with dealers lately has been ,if they dodn't know they try to convice you against something.

KLR
12-09-2002, 10:19 AM
Paul,
the one down side of the units we have is that they are mounted on the front of the spreader. it can be a problem if the fert hopper is close to empty and the 3 gallon tank is close to fill, spreader gets a little off balance (if Mrs Jones come out to talk to you, you got to be sure your spreader won't flip over before you walk away from it)

what you discribe sounds like an improvement with 2 one gallon tanks mounted on the sides (i assume each tank feeds its own jet nozzle?)

as far as low volume, high concentration mix. don't worry about it. remember, its active ingredient that kills weeds. if your using 1.5 oz of product per 1000sf, doesnt matter much if its mixed in 4 gals of water, 2 gals water or i quart of water.

back in the old days, we used to use 4 gals of water per 1000sf. when the cost of water started to become an issue and when the wear and tear of trucks from carrying so much weight, the industry went to 2 gals of water per 1000sf. the old timers, like my self, felt we would surely do some damage now that we were using a more concentrated mix. but, all was fine.

our units give us 8000sf coverage per gal. as long as you keep movin your gonna be fine. our units have a toggle switch mounted up at the handlebar. so, you can 'blanket' if need be by just holding the switch, or spot treat as needed. we're pleased with ours.

now, our ride-ons are also older, i know changes have been made. ours have 8 gallon tanks that will treat 64k sf. the same 8k per 1 gal. i know the newer ones only get half the sq footage. i called perma green, talked to Tom (owner) asked why they changed (i was curious, like you, if folks were havin problems with the higher concentration) he assured me that there were no problems, but many are nervous about the higher concentration, so he now offers a bit lower concentration.

order the unit, you'll be glad you did.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-09-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by PaulJ
It said it used the same pump as the ride-on so it would use the same spray concentrarion/rate.

It will use the same mixture of chemical, "once you calibrate" them to match.

I have the PG unit, and have built my own units.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-09-2002, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by KLR
i know the newer ones only get half the sq footage. i called perma green, talked to Tom (owner) asked why they changed (i was curious, like you, if folks were havin problems with the higher concentration) he assured me that there were no problems, but many are nervous about the higher concentration, so he now offers a bit lower concentration.

All you have to do is change the spray tips. $13 worth of parts and you can do it yourself.

The pump has a 1gpm open flow rating.

Unless they put a much larger pump on which I doubt they did, you're not going to get more than about 35oz "M" out of the pump.

greenngrow
12-10-2002, 06:44 PM
If you have a bunch of accounts the Pg is well worth the cost.

I bought mine this past summer and it is has been a life saver for me. Only have used the PG on the liquid apps. The snow got me before I could start the fall fertilizer round. Looks like I will be able to get it started this week.

KLR
12-11-2002, 09:36 AM
Greenngrow,
please educate me......what is PG???
thanks

greenngrow
12-11-2002, 09:52 AM
Perma Green

KLR
12-11-2002, 10:30 AM
ahh, don't I feel foolish??
LOL
yep, we got 2
PG=perma green ,duh!
thanks pal

HBFOXJr
12-11-2002, 04:26 PM
When we used liquid fert years ago we were at 1.5 gal/K of total solution. That was an N_P_K fert with Lesco 3 way. No problems.

With the PG we done a lot of acres at 1pt/K with no problem for weed control.

I also have a spreader mounted unit and when I first got that we cut back on 3way from the suggested 1.1 or .2 to 1.5 appl down to .75-1.o oz/k during warm, active weather and got good control. Especially with a sticker spreader.

Even some insecticides work well at low volume.

Disadvantage of LV is with fungicides and small weeds down in the turf. They gotta be poking there heads up at turf level to get hit. Still it hasn't been a "problem".

For fungicides I change to 20K nozzles AND double cover the lawn. My fung of choice is Scotts Fluid Fung 2. It is a low volume product to begin with compared to some flowables of 6-8 oz/k of milkshake like material. That can provide poumpability problems if you don't use enough water. Thorough tissue coverage can be important with some fungicides.

So far, no phytotoxicity problems with low volume anything.

masterpiece1
12-17-2002, 02:08 PM
I have a perma green ride-on spreader that I 've owned for the last three years. It helps me do a lot more lawns than I could ever walk. It's alot of work to keep it on the lawn i.e. broken belts and pulleys and the robin engine stinks. I worked for a lawn service that had the add-on spray tank attachted to the spreader. It was exhausting and I would never add it to any of my walk behinds. I would buy another ride-on even with the problems.

HBFOXJr
12-17-2002, 02:21 PM
What stinks on the Robin engine. Mine is usually a one pull start and burns zero oil. I have another on a seldom used piece of equipment and it is good too even sitting long times between uses.

Now that I have some hundreds of hours on the PG I think a preventive maintenance program of replacing belts every year or 200 hrs which ever comes first is a good idea. Same with spinner, hopper bushings and agitator. Pulleys can probably go longer into the 250-400 hr range. The parts are inexpensive and the fert enviroment is nasty, nasty.

I'm gonna strip my drive and spread components off and replace with new this winter. Cables and lever stuff is OK. just the stuff that moves and rotates a lot.

My walkbehind 3 gal unit is on a Lesco gas power WB spreader. The motor and drive never get tired.

etwman
12-20-2002, 08:16 AM
We have two perma greens. And they do save a tremendous amount of time. We do some larger work but when you factor in the time to move larger equipment it's almost not worth it. We have two pickup trucks. Each with the caddy for the PG on the back. We have a 100 poly nurse tank (for momentum/3 way/confront) in the front of the pickup bed ($200.00 max to buy tank) with a 12v small pump that connects up to our hotline at our trailer plug at the back of the truck. Right behind that we throw in a skid of fert. Put the caddy on the back ( You can buy that with the PG) and off you go, no trailer needed. On a good day, if your not foolin around we can do 1,000,000 square feet, about 23 acres with one PG. If your runnin' Momentum w/ say a 24-5-11 your cost would be around $50/acre. Charge $110. - $140. and you could bank ...... by yourself ..........$1,380-$2,070 a day!

The 100 gallon nurse tank will run you equal to one skid of granular if you have to spray everything.

It's a wonderful machine, no problems with it, and it's a big labor saver!

Hope this helps.

ETWman.

masterpiece1
12-20-2002, 06:57 PM
Well I must have just gotten a lemon, they even have them in the car market. We have no one in a 80 mile range that will even service a Robin engine. Don't get me wrong the pg is much better than pulling hoses and pushing fertilizer by hand. My pg only has just over 300 hrs. on it and it breaks all the time, I have the bills to prove it. I maintance it regulary according to pg specs.

etwman
12-20-2002, 09:00 PM
If I were you I would talk to PG about that one. I met the owner at the turf Expo in Louisville and he is a really nice guy and would work with you on that one. Hey, ask him for a new one flat out. Tell him you'll ship that one to him for a new one. We have about the same hours on our and no real problems.

Tony Harrell
12-24-2002, 07:22 AM
I just got my P-G video yesterday. It looks like a really great machine. What's a ballpark on the cost? Also, what's a ballpark on the saddle tanks for the push spreader?

etwman
12-24-2002, 09:30 AM
Tony -

I don't have the records here in front of me but I think it was around $4000. I will tell you this it has changed our whole outlook on weed control. Before dragging that hose around was rediculous and tiring. Now it's like a walk in the park. You'll be able to get this $ back pretty quick. I know of a guy on his own that does a half a million with it in sales a year, just him by himself! One truck, one man, one ride on.

As far as the saddle tanks for the push spreader, no sure. Check with Lesco. That's where we got out PG

Good luck
Jarod.

Kent Lawns
12-24-2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by etwman
Tony -

I know of a guy on his own that does a half a million with it in sales a year, just him by himself! One truck, one man, one ride on.

Jarod.

That seems far fetched.

By the time you sell, do customer service, run service calls and allow for rain days, $500,000 per guy seems rediculous.

KLR
12-24-2002, 12:52 PM
new ride-on cost about $4400.

saddle tank for push spreader cost about $350

funny, how their new web site doesnt give any pricing

www.ride-onspreader.com

i dont believe lesco deals the saddle tanks, either way i would recommend buying direct from Perma Green. they used to give a 100 hour money back guarantee. if you dont love the machine within the first 100 hrs of operation ship it back for a full refund. least thats how it was when we purchased ours a few years ago.



and the $500,000 one man operation mentioned above...................dont think so.....but, maybe if its all commercial and the guy works 15 hr days 6 days a week

etwman
12-24-2002, 03:49 PM
Hey you guys can believe what you want about the 1/2 million with just one guy. I know who he is, have talked to him, and know how much product he pulls from the local Lesco. Tractor trailer loads. He has about 350-450 customers. When he finishes one round he starts all over again with the second. Think about this realistically. For those of you who have the PG, you do, say, 15-20 lawns a day, 1/2 acre, and charge about $75. app. 75x15= 1125/day. 60 customers a week x six weeks. That's $150,000 with a five app. on the conservative side. Now I know he is doing some big commercial as well. And I know I can do 1,000,000 square feet a day if I push it. That's 21 acres a day.

I know you could do those figures, I know the guy well, and he has built it up over 5 years.

Think about it you have no overhead. The PG which is paid for in the first week, then materials. NO labor comp., min. insurance, little maintenance. And this is all he does, nothing else.

Just some thoughts.

etwman.

etwman
12-24-2002, 03:52 PM
KLR


Do you know whether or not we can still buy direct from PG? I know Lesco is dealing pretty heavy with this product now and that's where we got ours. Saw you mentioned that their prices aren't on their web site anymore. Wonder if that meant something?

etwman.

Kent Lawns
12-24-2002, 04:42 PM
.

KLR
12-24-2002, 04:42 PM
etwman
yes, you can definatly buy direct. we get mailings from them often and i've talked to Tom (owner of PG) he'd rather sell direct, at least thats the impression he has given me.

and BTW, about your buddy and the $500,000. Hey its possible, anything is possible, we do....well i'll just say considerably more than 450 lawns per round, and i think you may be confused?? I'm not gonna be harsh, especially on Chritmas eve, but unless he has a BIG RED 'S' on his shirt (superman)....i dont think so.

But, yes, you can buy direct from Perma Green, both the ride-on and the saddle tanks, also the carry rack that you attach to a 2" reciever.
good luck
happy Holiday

Kent Lawns
12-24-2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by etwman
That's $150,000 with a five app. on the conservative side.
etwman.

My, my... ...$500,000 shrinks down to $150,000 pretty fast!

Tony Harrell
12-25-2002, 06:05 AM
I wonder why Lesco is coming out with the Viper (spreader/sprayer on the Z2 chassis) when they have the P_G?

LCC350
01-02-2003, 06:01 PM
$500,000 with 450 accounts no chance. Yes anything is possible just not that scenerio. And if you say you can push 21 acres a day a have a job for you.

morturf
01-02-2003, 06:28 PM
I know a guy round here that has a P-G. He calls his Perfectly Gastly. He chases it more than rides it cause of the hills, has problems because it won't hold speed and then streaks the lawn. I tried his and the Z-spray. I have a Z-Spray and like it a lot more. Much more durable and more comfortable to run. I can fertilize a lot more areas faster than the PG . As far as spraying I use it but not as much as my dedicated Toro Workman for large areas. Anything over 3 acres. Yes they cost more, but you really get what you pay on the Z. Look at it www.Z-spray.com Just my thoughts guys not trying to start anything here.
mike

etwman
01-02-2003, 06:30 PM
I do 21 acres a day with the perma green. Guaranteed. Call our local lesco and ask them how I pull from the stockpile. I pull in with a stake body dump, put two skids of 24-5-11 in the bed, have a caddy with the spreader on the back and off I go. I have 8 big sites that take four stops. In four days I have cover about 82.4 acres with that machine. Guess you'd better rethink your theory.

mowing king
01-02-2003, 06:44 PM
if you have that large of an area to fert why not use a 3pt fert spreader on the back of a tractor. ours holds 600 lbs. and we do 4-5 acres in about 30 minutes. or about 8-10 acres per hr.

the most we ever did in one day was about 40 acres in one day. between loading and travel.

But please don't ask the lesco store to verify my story,because we get our product in by the truck load right to our shop. Whan you do alot of apps they will deliver the product right to your door.

LCC350
01-02-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by etwman
I do 21 acres a day with the perma green. Guaranteed. Call our local lesco and ask them how I pull from the stockpile. I pull in with a stake body dump, put two skids of 24-5-11 in the bed, have a caddy with the spreader on the back and off I go. I have 8 big sites that take four stops. In four days I have cover about 82.4 acres with that machine. Guess you'd better rethink your theory.



......no theory, i never mentioned using a rider, simply a boy and his two getiup sticks.... so maybe you need to re-think your thought.

MOW ED
01-02-2003, 09:34 PM
How has a question about Perma Green spreaders become a Pi$$in match?

I'm not lookin to argue, just tell me about your first hand personal experiences with the machine. I got a good B.S. filter built into the space above my sholders, I'll decide.

HBFOXJr
01-03-2003, 09:39 AM
Check your math before you get too gleeful on 1.2 mil/yr. That $1125.day x 5 days x 6 weeks is $33,750 x 5 apps is $168,750.

Hope you haven't made any big plans on that $500K you were gonna gross.

Too many of you guys are thinking in terms of applications in your area. All of these machines talked about have merit. Although we have big lawns in NJ, they don't comprise the bulk of the work. Residentially we probably average <10K per lawn. However the common extremes are from 3k to 2 acres with numbers smaller and greater than those.

For our size residential and many commercial PLUS our terrain in the southern 1/2 of the state the PG is an excellent choice. Boomless is NICE! I've stated before that if you were mowing 7' wide at 5 mph you'd be super happy.

As for production the mil ft/day is only practical if your not spraying, don't have much hard surface to clean off and the jobs are very large.

The hopper will comfortably hold 3 plus bags of fert. So for 80 bags of material you'll refill 27 times. If you were to spray, that increases the time to refill. At a qt/k of weed mix you'd need 250 gal of mix for a blanket app. It takes time to load or go get 2 skids of fert, fill & mix 250 gal of weed control apply and refill every 30 some thousand feet.

For us the boomless feature is the best as you never running into anything. The nozzles are low pressure, low to the ground and large droplet for drift resistent application.

But if you big and wide and a 10-12' boom can be handled and a spreader throughing a 20 ft pattern is OK you gotta go that route. If hills have to be dealt with that is another issue. These machines will continue to evolve.