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johntx14
03-19-2012, 02:59 PM
For tax purposes do the gas receipts need to show the amount of gallons.

orangemower
03-19-2012, 03:26 PM
No.........
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weeze
03-19-2012, 04:16 PM
keep up with mileage driven not gas purchased on your truck. as far as mower gas that's a different story since it's not covered under mileage.

yardguy28
03-19-2012, 04:18 PM
yep that's what I do. turn in my mileage.

TLS
03-19-2012, 04:21 PM
For mower gas, you need to keep track of gallons for credit for tax on fuels (Form 4136). You can deduct the federal taxes on fuel.

Truck gas is deductible as long as your not using standard mileage.

Richard Martin
03-19-2012, 04:22 PM
keep up with mileage driven not gas purchased on your truck. as far as mower gas that's a different story since it's not covered under mileage.

Unless you take expenses rather than the mileage. I take mileage.

weeze
03-19-2012, 04:24 PM
yeah you can take the expenses you spent on gas but you come out better claiming the mileage. at least in my experience. it's best to take mileage on the truck and use expenses on mower gas rather than using expenses for all of it.

yardguy28
03-19-2012, 04:27 PM
personally I turn in my mileage on my truck since its both a personal and work truck.

fuel on equipment is just included in my expenses for the season.

K & K Mowing
03-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Milage for your truck. Fuel cost ($) for your equipment. Gallons not needed

weeze
03-19-2012, 04:30 PM
personally I turn in my mileage on my truck since its both a personal and work truck.

fuel on equipment is just included in my expenses for the season.

Milage for your truck. Fuel cost ($) for your equipment. Gallons not needed


yeah i do the same.

TLS
03-19-2012, 04:38 PM
So.....nobody is getting the credit for tax on fuels???

Your missing out on a lot of money!

Also....unless you drive your truck a LOT (mileage wise) your better off going with actual expenses.

I put between 3K and 4K miles on my truck a year. I incurred a whole lot more than $2K worth of expenses!

KS_Grasscutter
03-19-2012, 04:42 PM
I agree with doing actual expenses if its a dedicated work truck. Write of the cost of the truck, then write off all costs of using the truck.
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Richard Martin
03-19-2012, 04:49 PM
So.....nobody is getting the credit for tax on fuels???

Your missing out on a lot of money!

Also....unless you drive your truck a LOT (mileage wise) your better off going with actual expenses.

I put between 3K and 4K miles on my truck a year. I incurred a whole lot more than $2K worth of expenses!

I tried the offroad fuel tax credit and it wasn't that much in my case.

I drove about the same miles as you and didn't put anywhere near that into my truck. I did an oil change or two and put new tires on it. I came in under $500 plus gas for the year.

clydebusa
03-19-2012, 04:55 PM
Ask CPA what the best for you.

TLS
03-19-2012, 04:56 PM
I pay to have all work done on my truck. Brakes, oil, maintenance. Had all fluids changed and flushed this past year. New brakes and rotors all around as well. Tires alone this year were $600. 7mpg doesn't get me far on a tank either.

The offroad credit is .173 per gallon! That's about $100 for a solo guy!

yardguy28
03-19-2012, 06:16 PM
So.....nobody is getting the credit for tax on fuels???

Your missing out on a lot of money!

Also....unless you drive your truck a LOT (mileage wise) your better off going with actual expenses.

I put between 3K and 4K miles on my truck a year. I incurred a whole lot more than $2K worth of expenses!

I follow what my accountant tells me and that's turn in my work miles and leave equipment fuel under general expenses. the only thing I pull out seperately is equipment. all other expenses are one total.

by the way I put between 5k and 8k miles a season on my truck for work miles.

Richard Martin
03-19-2012, 07:45 PM
The offroad credit is .173 per gallon! That's about $100 for a solo guy!

I used about 350 gallons last year or about 60 bucks. Leaving it in saves me about $20 so the net would be about $40. It's also an automatic red flag for the IRS. Just like the home office deduction.

TLS
03-20-2012, 06:25 AM
I've been 4136'ing since 1988 and home office'ing for over 8 years now probably.

I have heard the home office is often a high abuse area that they look into, but have never heard the credit for tax on fuel being a red flag item?

Your not using this fuel in a DOT approved vehicle on the road, so why pay tax on it?

We already save all our gas receipts. I always fill up mowers separately from the truck, so the receipt is 100% accurate. The truck gets filled on a separate pump. Truck receipt has truck mileage written on it, and mower receipt has mowers written on it.

I take the receipts and add them all up at tax time. Simple and easy.

As for the truck....as long as you have another car/truck for personal use, and just use your work truck for 100% business. It's so much easier that way.

TJLANDS
03-20-2012, 10:03 AM
Everyone should be using the off road deduction(credit).
If you dont you are just giving money away. A lot of it.

Also I have never had it where mileage beat out actual expenses,
so we use actual.
We also have 9 trucks, so maybe it is different for solo guys

Snyder's Lawn Inc
03-20-2012, 10:24 AM
Everyone should be using the off road deduction(credit).
If you dont you are just giving money away. A lot of it.

Also I have never had it where mileage beat out actual expenses,
so we use actual.
We also have 9 trucks, so maybe it is different for solo guys

What I do actual expenses on 4 company trucks
What I do have a Credit card for each truck no paper trail I always hate to mess with tons of paper

yardguy28
03-20-2012, 08:58 PM
Everyone should be using the off road deduction(credit).
If you dont you are just giving money away. A lot of it.

Also I have never had it where mileage beat out actual expenses,
so we use actual.
We also have 9 trucks, so maybe it is different for solo guys

I am solo but like I said I just follow what my accountant says and suggested.

and that is to keep track of the work mileage on my truck. I turn that in at tax time. mower fuel is just mixed in with all my expenses for the season.

I used to save the receipts from the mowers but I don't any more. mowers are filled up with a diff card than my truck so I can track it that way if I need to.

TJLANDS
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
I am solo but like I said I just follow what my accountant says and suggested.

and that is to keep track of the work mileage on my truck. I turn that in at tax time. mower fuel is just mixed in with all my expenses for the season.

I used to save the receipts from the mowers but I don't any more. mowers are filled up with a diff card than my truck so I can track it that way if I need to.

just one comment,
if your accountant does not file for off rd. credit,
get a new accountant

TLS
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
just one comment,
if your accountant does not file for off rd. credit,
get a new accountant

YES!

And keep receipts! It's not hard to do! The 5 minutes it takes to add them up at the end of the year is well worth the trouble!

yardguy28
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
just one comment,
if your accountant does not file for off rd. credit,
get a new accountant

to be honest I trust and have been happy wirth this accountant 110%.

he has been my dads accountant for over 30 years with the business he has and has been my accountant since I've been in business.

TJLANDS
03-20-2012, 11:09 PM
If he doesn't file for off road credit, he is probably behind the times and needs to retire,
think of What else is he could be
missing
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britsteroni
03-21-2012, 12:06 AM
TJLANDS & TLS are correct. Don't take our word for it, see the IRS instructions for the form.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i4136.pdf

You might not need to switch accountants, just inform your current one of this credit and he will probably thank you. The laws change so often that it is difficult to stay on top of everything.

TLS
03-21-2012, 07:05 AM
It's also pretty much an industry specific deduction.

Joe's Flower Shop would not be filling out this form.

So if your accountant isn't exposed to business' that would use it, maybe he doesn't know about it?

Prior to doing my own taxes, I had an old, and I mean he was 70 back in the 80's, old! He knew about this form then! And he was just a retired corporate accountant!
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Richard Martin
03-21-2012, 07:25 AM
I have heard the home office is often a high abuse area that they look into, but have never heard the credit for tax on fuel being a red flag item?

The offroad fuel tax credit makes the IRS' Dirty Dozen. The IRS complies its list of the most egregious schemes that it has on its radar for the year. The offroad fuel tax credit is on that list this year. I'm not saying to not use it. Just be aware that use of it will increase your chances of being audited.

http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=12-303DirtyDozen

TLS
03-21-2012, 08:43 AM
I read that link Richard.

Fuel Tax. While farmers and others who need to use fuel for off-highway business expenses are rightfully entitled to fuel tax credits, other taxpayers are claiming the credit erroneously. (Sorry, no matter how many potholes are in the expressway by the end of a Midwestern winter, that driving does not qualify as off-road.) Before you try and make that argument, remember the IRS lacks of a sense of humor and that fraud involving the fuel tax credit is considered a frivolous tax claim and can result in a penalty of $5,000

But I don't think our returns with Line A of our Schedule C reading Landscape/Lawn Maintenance would pop a flag.

They are saying in that article that "normal" people are claiming off highway use when they are infact using the highway.

TJLANDS
03-21-2012, 09:45 AM
I read that link Richard.

Fuel Tax. While farmers and others who need to use fuel for off-highway business expenses are rightfully entitled to fuel tax credits, other taxpayers are claiming the credit erroneously. (Sorry, no matter how many potholes are in the expressway by the end of a Midwestern winter, that driving does not qualify as off-road.) Before you try and make that argument, remember the IRS lacks of a sense of humor and that fraud involving the fuel tax credit is considered a frivolous tax claim and can result in a penalty of $5,000

But I don't think our returns with Line A of our Schedule C reading Landscape/Lawn Maintenance would pop a flag.

They are saying in that article that "normal" people are claiming off highway use when they are infact using the highway.

We were audited in 2008 for 2005-2006 and the off road credit was not even an issue

yardguy28
03-21-2012, 04:00 PM
while I appreciate what you guys are saying I have an accountant for one reason and one reason only.

so I don't have to mess with doing the taxes and knowing anything about that stuff. I just want a guy who says I need this, this and that and just does it. and right now that's what I have. he tells me what he needs and I give it to him.

it's the accountants job to keep up with the law. not mine.

TLS
03-21-2012, 04:16 PM
I would ask him why he's not getting you every deduction.

He will probably say that you didn't furnish him with gallonage or receipts, but a good accountant, knowing the business your in should have asked you.

It's a CREDIT, not a deduction.
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yardguy28
03-21-2012, 04:24 PM
maybe I will but as I said I have an accountant so I don't have to keep up with or pay attention to that stuff.

landscaper22
03-21-2012, 11:17 PM
I personally find that on my diesel truck, expenses plus fuel is fairly close to mileage. It may vary a little each year, but overall it is a wash for me. Mileage may be slightly more sometimes. But, I just take expenses because I look at the mileage log as one more thing to keep track of. Expense receipts just go in the pile to be entered in the computer, and it's done. Plus the larger your operation (and the more trucks), the more people you are depending on to keep up with mileage logs. Such a pain. I found myself having to go back to the truck and look at my routes and trying to write in a week or more of mileage. Just turns out to be a headache for me.

britsteroni
03-21-2012, 11:46 PM
I am an accountant. That's why I was trying to help you. If you don't want to listen, fine. People are trying to help you save money, not learn the tax code!

TLS
03-22-2012, 09:19 AM
I personally find that on my diesel truck, expenses plus fuel is fairly close to mileage. It may vary a little each year, but overall it is a wash for me. Mileage may be slightly more sometimes. But, I just take expenses because I look at the mileage log as one more thing to keep track of. Expense receipts just go in the pile to be entered in the computer, and it's done. Plus the larger your operation (and the more trucks), the more people you are depending on to keep up with mileage logs. Such a pain. I found myself having to go back to the truck and look at my routes and trying to write in a week or more of mileage. Just turns out to be a headache for me.

Why are you keeping mileage logs on a work truck?

Work trucks are for work 100% of the time.

Personal vehicles are for personal (non-business) use.

If you stick to that, there is no need to log anything. Just keep gas receipts.

It is so much easier that way, and there are NO mistakes.

Richard Martin
03-22-2012, 03:12 PM
Why are you keeping mileage logs on a work truck?

Work trucks are for work 100% of the time.

Personal vehicles are for personal (non-business) use.

If you stick to that, there is no need to log anything. Just keep gas receipts.

It is so much easier that way, and there are NO mistakes.

The truth is the IRS requires a mileage log even when you expense the work vehicle. The reason you don't hear more about it from accountants is accountants know better than to try to convince you to do it. If you are ever audited the auditor can require your mileage log books. Then you get to recreate them.

You'd be surprised at how often supposed work only trucks get used for personal travel. Here's a good example:

Tommy has a shop that is one mile from his house. Tommy drives his work truck everywhere he goes. What Tommy doesn't realize though is that the one mile trip from his house to his shop is not deductible. As soon as Tommy left his shop to go home the truck's true purpose went from business to pleasure.

There was a guy here at Lawnsite a couple of years ago that did some very creative numbers juggling. He and his wife jumped into his company truck, drove 300 miles to pick up personal furniture and then stopped at an auto parts store to buy spark plugs for his mower. Then he drove home and marked the entire trip down as business. Right. The auditors weren't born yesterday.

yardguy28
03-22-2012, 04:35 PM
I am an accountant. That's why I was trying to help you. If you don't want to listen, fine. People are trying to help you save money, not learn the tax code!

relax dude,

why get so upset if someone doesn't follow your advise. I don't know you or anyone else on this site from Adam.

I prefer to stick with what my accountant says and does. a person I've met in person and have come to know and trust.

besides in my last post I said I'd mention it to him, did I not?

it's more than just the tax code I'm not interested in. I don't have the first clue about how to do my taxes. when I worked for someone else and all I had was w2 forms yes. but with my own business I don't know where to begin nor do I care to know.

I just give the accountant what he asks for. I have no idea why he needs the info he gets from me. I just know he needs it to figure my taxes and that's good enough for me.

I'm not interested in saving every last penny I can. if the easier way is costing me a little so what. it's pretty easy to just give him what he asks for and move on.

TLS
03-22-2012, 11:21 PM
The truth is the IRS requires a mileage log even when you expense the work vehicle. The reason you don't hear more about it from accountants is accountants know better than to try to convince you to do it. If you are ever audited the auditor can require your mileage log books. Then you get to recreate them.



While that is likely true, my truck is a work truck. Used only for work, and bought by the business, and registered in the business name, with commercial insurance. It's a 2004 that just clicked over to 30K miles last month!

It's the landscapers driving their chromed up $70K Denali "work" pickups down to the OBX a couple times a summer that they're after.
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Richard Martin
03-23-2012, 03:56 AM
While that is likely true, my truck is a work truck. Used only for work, and bought by the business, and registered in the business name, with commercial insurance. It's a 2004 that just clicked over to 30K miles last month!

It's the landscapers driving their chromed up $70K Denali "work" pickups down to the OBX a couple times a summer that they're after.

I do agree that in your particular case you probably wouldn't throw up a red flag for mileage. They have averages for every type of business there is. Say there was a company that did $40,000 worth of business and logged 25,000 miles doing it. That might throw a flag. They also probably look at inconsistencies in reporting such as wild fluctuations in mileage from year to year.

I know that my mileage is pretty consistent with my gross income. As my income goes up and down so does my mileage. It took them a while to process my return this year. Longer than usual. I know that they were having software issues for a while. But my return took longer to process than what their software issues account for. I suspect it was pulled for an internal audit and they didn't find anything worth asking me about.

TLS
03-23-2012, 05:20 AM
You can not cheat the IRS.

As long as your 100% honest, and have supporting documentation you'll be fine.

And yeah, the inconsistencies is what will get you an audit.

Yardguy, don't know your story, how long you've been in business, but your last few lines in post #38 kind of scare me. You DO need to know these things. You do need to question your accountant. Just like all LCO's aren't created equal, accountants aren't either!

yardguy28
03-23-2012, 08:46 AM
You can not cheat the IRS.

As long as your 100% honest, and have supporting documentation you'll be fine.

And yeah, the inconsistencies is what will get you an audit.

Yardguy, don't know your story, how long you've been in business, but your last few lines in post #38 kind of scare me. You DO need to know these things. You do need to question your accountant. Just like all LCO's aren't created equal, accountants aren't either!

how about you run your way and I'll run my business my way. ok?

britsteroni
03-24-2012, 01:31 AM
I was just trying to help you out. Best of luck in your future.

TLS
03-24-2012, 10:39 AM
Come run with me Britsteroni!

yardguy28
03-24-2012, 04:15 PM
I was just trying to help you out. Best of luck in your future.

and I appreciate it. but when you help someone out don't get all upset if they don't want or take the help.

I've taken into consideration what has been said and choose to remain with what my accountant is doing. nothing personal.

grandview (2006)
03-24-2012, 04:29 PM
On the flip side is ,if your snowplowing ,in my case I might only put 30 miles on the truck during a full run but use a tank full. So I go with actual expenses. Miles would be less then 20 bucks but a tank full of gas is 140.00