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View Full Version : What about Surfers, Standers, Sentars & slopes?


Envy Lawn Service
12-11-2002, 10:13 PM
OK, so I have picked out some ZTR's and walkbehinds to demo and see if they can cut it. But what about these Surfers, Standers & Sentars?

The reason I asked is because my interest has been "renewed" in the Sentar. I finally got to atleast see one of them! It wasn't the new design since they are not out yet. But a sentar nonetheless.

The dealer sold both Toro and Wright. When I went in, I didn't show any particular interest in any one brand or machine. I explained my situtation to the salesman and he recommended the Sentar.

He boasted that the Stander was the #1 machine on the market for hills, while the Sentar was a close 2nd. I have heard so much at this point I don't know what to believe. But I guess he could have attemped to sell me a big Toro Z Master with a bigger price tag though.

Any thoughts?

devildog
12-12-2002, 04:39 AM
Common sense, anything on four wheels, mowing on these caonditions is dangerous. The Surfer, does give you a slightly better "feel" over a Z. With rrregards... devildog

The Mowerdude
12-12-2002, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
The dealer sold both Toro and Wright.....He boasted that the Stander was the #1 machine on the market for hills, while the Sentar was a close 2nd......Any thoughts?


That's nothing!

There's a guy on this very forum that boasts about how good his Murray is on hills. You should consider one of those.

No....wait.........THAT'S YOU!!! YOU ALREADY HAVE A SUPERB HILLSIDE MACHINE!! WHY LOOK FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

Envy- why don't you please stop this incessant discussion about EVERY last mower on the market. You registered barely 3 months ago and you're already up to 620 posts on this forum alone. You truly must not have anything better to do than to go waste mower dealer's time and then coming back here and wasting our time by getting everyone involved in a "my mower is better than yours" discussion. It's obvious that you have no intention of buying anything, so what are you gaining if it isn't just to get attention?

Please, please, just cool your jets for a while. Am I asking too much?

BTW, I'm going to take a look over on the "other" forum to see if you've once again posted the same darn question on 2 forums.

Envy Lawn Service
12-13-2002, 02:51 AM
Ahh...Once again the MowerDUD :laugh: follows me around on the forums show his peers just how childish he can be! Try acting your age, not your IQ!!!

By the way, I didn't know it was your job to regualte the number or the subject matter of my posts. Furthermore, so what if I'm willing to come on here and show without a doubt I don't know jack about commercial grade mowers. SO WHAT! I'm not too proud to ask questions if there is something I don't know.

I for one am trying to make an intellegent informed business decision here. So if I want to discuss and ask questions about every last mower on the market. Well then I guess that's my business right???

If the posts bother you, ingnore them!!!

Why did I even say that? We both know you aren't going to to that. Why? Because it's clear there is some other issue that get under your skin here and it don't have jack to do with this thread. You are just too much of a wuss to be a man and admitt what it is that's really bothering you...

By the way, thanks for reminding me that I didn't add you to my ignore list on this forum

THANX :D

The Mowerdude
12-13-2002, 07:59 AM
:) Well, Envy

I see I got your attention. Ok, let's address these issues.

I'm not making any attempt whatsoever to regulate the number of posts you make. I'm simply pointing out that, for the short time that you've been here, you talked more than entire groups of people combined. AND, you keep going over already covered ground.

"So what if I'm willing to come on here and admit that I don't know jack about commercial grade mowers....."

Don't patronize me, ok? We both know that you know plenty about commercial mowers. But it appears as though you can't seem to make up your mind which one you want to buy. I'm guessing that, in reality, you don't have the money or credit for any of them and this constantly asking questions is nothing more than a smokescreen. I'm guessing this because I've been there. So rather than discussing mowers at incredible lengths, why not post some questions about how to actually put the money together to pay for one? Now there's where a forum might be able to really help.

"...it's clear there is some other issue......You are too much of a wuss to be a man and admitt what it is that's really bothering you...."

One thing I've NEVER done up on the boards of ANY forum, is resort to name calling. But the fact is that I'm NOT a wuss. Quite the opposite. I know for a fact that there are numerous members here that find your posts to be very irritating. I'm just the only one with the stones to lock horns with you.

And just to prove to you that I can admit what the REAL issue is, I'll lay it out for you. It's obvious that you've been in business for a short time. And while there's certainly nothing wrong with that, you present yourself as an "authority" on so many subjects that you really have very little knowledge about. Case in point. You went into a lengthy discussion about Round-Up vs. Spectracide. It became obvious that your entire knowledge of these products came from the product labels themselves. You have zero training with these chemicals and knew nothing of any license requirements. Then when you get corrected, your incredibly inflated ego will not let you take a little medicine. There's my issue with you! You should really call your service "Ego Lawn." I personally HATE egos and I find it virtually impossible to resist sadistically poking fun at an ego and then seeing that ego go ballistic. To me, that's one of life's little pleasures.

This forum is a place for people to share ideas and thoughts. I wish I had this when I was starting out. I don't know how much you have personally learned here, but I know that your ego has caused you to miss a lot of solid advice simply because your so darn smug with what you THINK you already know. If one combines that with your not having the money for a new mower, it's easy to see that you have all of the key peices for failure in this business...i.e. Wrong equipment, lack of funds, lack of product knowledge and an arrogant refusal to shut your yap and learn. Sounds a lot like some scrubs around here. You're not a scrub are you?

Now, I ask you. Would a wuss tell you that? And by the way, you can rebutt this until you're blue in the face and it won't change anything. You can call me names, flame my posts and discredit me any way you can think up and you'll still have that amazing ego that's working against you.

Rather than banter this back and forth on the boards, why don't you get my phone number off of my website. Long distance is cheap these days. And that phone number is my cell, which means it's with me most of the time. Here, I'll even save you the trouble of looking up my website. www.mowerdudes.com

Give me a call. If you want to yell at me, you can. If you want to dicuss this post, you can. If you want to disparage me, you can. If you want to put your ideas together with someone who's had a long hard struggle to get his business where it is today, and can help you overcome the obstacles that I KNOW you're going to run into, we can do that too. Another one of my pleasures is when I'm able to take the lessons that have been so costly to me, and help others avoid those mistakes. The choice is yours.

nova385
12-13-2002, 08:25 AM
DAANMMM!

brian mon
12-13-2002, 08:50 AM
WOW now thats hog wrestlen....very nice dude......well stated!

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
12-13-2002, 08:51 AM
WOW,Very good reading!!

65hoss
12-13-2002, 10:44 AM
Call him. He can help you much more than all these many many threads about the same things just with different mowers.

scott's turf
12-13-2002, 11:19 AM
Yeah I'd have to say that 8.5 posts per day is a bit much. Remember it is quality not quantity of posts that really count :D

Turfdude
12-13-2002, 01:32 PM
Mowerdude Dave,

I checked out your website - and just wanted to interject a few thoughts/constructive criticisms. Let me first off say that it does appear that you run a quality business. You seem to pay attention to detail and use quality equipment. You are straigtforward w/ what service you offer and what you expect in return. For these things I believe everything is great.

The only thing you may wish to do is to tune-down some of the verbage and lingo in your descriptions and documentation. Believe me having a clean cut crew is ararity these days, but I don't know how good it is to put on awebsite that you don't hire tattooed, or pierced personnel. I like the line about not hiring anyone who looks like they should be in America's Most Wanted, but again, there is the question of dicrimination. Also, some of your points that are discussed, although important to touch upon, should be addressed differently. I know what you mean by some properties gathering debris and all, but noone really wants to read that their place could be viewed as a "pigsty". Again - I do not want to start any crap, just some constructive criticism to possibly help you out.
I do believe in 85+% of what you have to say, and would probably be as forthright w/ many of my clients, but only after getting to know them a little better. Some people could be offended by the way the info is written and presented.
Sorry for the long post, just felt that the $.02 may help you out.

Bob

The Mowerdude
12-13-2002, 01:41 PM
Hey Bob

Thank you for the input. I think I'll remove the line about the pigsty. And actually, I haven't even had any English speaking people ask for a job in quite a few months. Tats and peircings are really rare among the Mexicans.

Turfdude
12-13-2002, 01:50 PM
Dave,

Thank you for not taking my criticisms the wrong way. Keep it real. Good luck.
Bob

65hoss
12-13-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by The Mowerdude

And actually, I haven't even had any English speaking people ask for a job in quite a few months. Tats and peircings are really rare among the Mexicans.

Can I have a job? :)

KenGreenPro
12-13-2002, 01:52 PM
Eagles Nest, this is Delta 4, request immediate extraction..this area is hostile..i repeat..area is hostile...over!

Classic

Mowerdude, I also checked your website out and was a bit dissappointed to find there were no hot chicks in bikini's..:)

I personally think your website is well designed and presents the appropriate message to your customers using plain and simple verbage.....as far as discrimination goes? Im not quite sure where that plays in as im sure the majority of your residential customers are family's and as a father, i know i would not feel comfortable with cheech and chong cruising up and down my front lawn. Is that discrimination? maybe, but im a realist, and the reality of the matter is that people are image concious these days and if their neighbor has an LCO with uniformed workers who present a professional image then they will not be satisfied with cheech and chong playing bumper cars on the mowers smoking a doobie. The phrase keeping up with the jone's comes to mind.

anyway, enuf rambling, thats my pennys worth.....

Envy,,,,call dave he's a wealth of usuful and helpful info...just dont ask him how the enlargement surgery went...:)

take care all and have a safe and happy holiday season...

Ken

The Mowerdude
12-13-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by 65hoss
Can I have a job? :)

Hoss, make me the right offer and you can have the entire business. :D

Envy Lawn Service
12-13-2002, 10:05 PM
For those that care to learn or get information about the subject of this thread....

Jim Velkie has been extremely, extremely helpful in passing on information and answering every question I asked about Wright's products. MFG support has been great! A demo will be scheduled as soon as a dealer nearby recieves one of the newly re-designed Sentar's. I'll get it out and compair it to other stuff on the market on slopes.

As for the Super Surfer, Great Dane has an excellent video of it in action that only takes a second to download from their web-site. There is footage of it mowing some pretty decent slopes. There is no seating attachment though and the ride looks pretty rough too :dizzy: BUMMER :(

brucec32
01-28-2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by The Mowerdude
That's nothing!

There's a guy on this very forum that boasts about how good his Murray is on hills. You should consider one of those.

No....wait.........THAT'S YOU!!! YOU ALREADY HAVE A SUPERB HILLSIDE MACHINE!! WHY LOOK FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

Envy- why don't you please stop this incessant discussion about EVERY last mower on the market. You registered barely 3 months ago and you're already up to 620 posts on this forum alone. You truly must not have anything better to do than to go waste mower dealer's time and then coming back here and wasting our time by getting everyone involved in a "my mower is better than yours" discussion. It's obvious that you have no intention of buying anything, so what are you gaining if it isn't just to get attention?

Please, please, just cool your jets for a while. Am I asking too much?

BTW, I'm going to take a look over on the "other" forum to see if you've once again posted the same darn question on 2 forums.

Why not let him post what he wants, even if he creates "too many" threads? I found this topic interesting and informative. I wanted to learn more about these mowers myself. I thought that was what this site was all about. Just ignore the ones you don't want to read. Certainly takes less time than arguing with him about the number of posts he makes.

Maybe you should reread your own quote, since you're wrasslin' the pig here it seems.

Your website is informative and makes good use of photos, but your language veers close to negativity (1st rule of sales is don't start by knocking the competition, turns people off) at times. It also features a fairly unsophisticated writing style and structure, but that might actually be a plus with customers tired of promises from slick operators.

lawncare3
01-28-2003, 11:50 AM
That was a pretty good pissin match.:p Glad to see everything turned out good.

Bluesteel
01-28-2003, 12:41 PM
Yet another classic off-topic argument...

Anyway, back to the original question: Surfers, Standers, Sentars on slopes. Anyone remember that one?

Stander type machines are tricky on slopes. If you're careful, they do pretty well going side to side. But the short wheelbase really takes the weight off the rear (drive) wheels when you're going down hill, causing them to slide and tear the turf. Another effect of the short wheelbase is a bumpy ride. On the good side, the compact size lets them fit in VERY tight spaces. And being able to "pop a wheely" under control has come in handy many more times than I would have imagined.

I demoed a Sentar for about a week last summer. I was all set to buy it, until I tried it on steep slopes. Overall it seemed like a very solid machine, and for level ground its a winner. But I'm 6'3" 240 not fat, and the Sentar's layout was on the crampt side. After a while, it was comfortable on level ground, but on very steep slopes it was dangerous. Hanging that much weight off the back of the machine made the front end very light. This made reversals on the side of a steep slope tricky. A few times, when it was time to get off the machine, my legs would get caught up in between the seat and the inside of the wheel-wells. It was obvious that I was headed for a broken leg. Maybe someone not my size wouldn't have that problem. Please notice, I was testing this machine on some VERY steep slopes that would be dangerous for any mower. In fact, so steep I'd never another take a "riding mower" on them but a Stander. Again, the Sentar is a great machine and if I wasn't as large or had to deal with tricky slopes, I'd buy one.

PaulJ
01-28-2003, 12:59 PM
Hey Envy
I don't know if this is your case or not, but I take forever to make a decision. When I rush it, I get burned. I will mulll over a purchase for several months or more. Drives everyone around me nuts. I am thinking about a new mower purchase myself. I know it will be awhile before I can buy and I will tell the dealer that when I talk to them. But When I do land the accounts I feel will make the purchase worth while without bankrupting me, I WILL be buying a mower. I have already decided what size/type of machine I want, It's coming down to the details. I have read every bit a literature I can on my choices, and watch for info on them here. I have asked a few questions, and maybe everyone is tired of hearing about "my next mower " also. To those I apologize. The reason I'm am so intent on trying to make this decision on what to buy before I am ready to buy it, is so that when the time comes all my agonizing over the decision is done. Make sense?

About The original topic, I haven't looked into the Wright's.
What I can say is I would never try any rider on the slopes I have mowed with a Snapper 48" hydro walkbeind. this was a 15" or taller slope along a road. It felt steeper than 45 deg. I know it was really hard to walk on. When walked along side the back of the mower the handles were about at my shoulder. That mower just kept going. I had to angle it up hill a bit, kind of like flying a plane in a cross wind. But it did mow the slope, and didn't loose control. It would have been much harder with a 21 or a trimmer. and never with any sort of a rider. So if they say the Sentar is the best hillside machine, they must not be comparing to Walkbehind. JMHO

I still think this is a good place to get info o these mowers from people who have experience with them.
Good Luck in making your choice,

Bluesteel
01-28-2003, 01:05 PM
I heard the same thing, "they say the Sentar is the best on slopes." But "they" must have been the sales reps.

Envy Lawn Service
01-28-2003, 11:56 PM
brucec32 ,

I appreciate your words very much. I don't sweat this guy anymore. For some reason he got all worked up there for a while and followed me around making SA comments to every post I made, and on more than one forum as you can see. Honestly I never did figure ou what he got so worked up about. But after just a bit I did make good use of that "ignore" option we have on this site. Now I don't have to see any of his posts anymore.

Too bad it doesn't work on "quotes" :angry:

Seeing one of those posts makes me want to un-ignore him, read his posts and have some nasty things to say back to him. But I'll refrain from wasting my time with such childish things. I have more important things to do on these forums.

PaulJ,

I hate to admit it, but that's me to a tee. I don't mind a bit to ask questions if that means I have less of a chance of making a big mistake. As for what you said about the Snapper walk behind, that's one that's still on my list after ruling out a lot of machines. But I'm still not set on anything yet. I'm glad I got an early start shopping and I'm glad I still have some more time to think things through...

As for everyone else that has posted good useful info, I really appreciate it. I'm scheduled to demo a Sentar and a Stander in Febuary. That won't tell me much about how they cut. But I'll be able to see how they handle anyways....

1MajorTom
01-29-2003, 12:24 AM
Old threads have a way of making it back to the top. Nothing wrong with that, especially if the discussion will continue on topic.

Envy, I believe you stated your thoughts about Mowerdude back on 12-13. Surely we're not going to go for another round are we?
Mowerdude hasn't said anymore since, why bring the disagreement back up to the foreground again even if someone did comment on it? Use this thread as you had intended. To learn about Surfers, Standers, and Sentars. Mowerdude isn't blocking the way. ;)

Bluesteel
01-29-2003, 12:37 AM
MajorTom,

Looks to me the posts were back on topic until your post. Seems as though you're on someone's side of conflict. Not a good position for a "moderator."

1MajorTom
01-29-2003, 12:45 AM
Nah, I don't know either of these guys, so what benefit would I get by picking a side?

All I'm saying is, let's not bring the "other guy" back into this by reiterating how he is now on the ignore option, how he followed him around, etc..., when this other guy isn't even making any further comments. These comments have already been said back in December you see?

Bluesteel
01-29-2003, 12:48 AM
Nope, don't know their history, don't care. Just seeing one guy attack another one out of the blue, then you telling the guy who is defending himself to get back on topic. Which he already did.

Envy Lawn Service
01-29-2003, 01:15 AM
1MajorTom,

As you can see, I didn't bring this tread back up for one thing and the other is that it was surely a usefull bit of questions because a person would have had to search to find it as old as it is by now. Now the bad thing is that someone else thought this was not a good topic or whatever back when I posted it.

So, now as someone else digs it back up in a search they see all this uncalled for crap in the thread. There is nothing wrong with that person saying something about it because the whole nature of what was said was really uncalled for.

For these reasons stuff like this should not be allowed to go on at this site. That's not meant to be taken that every arguement or half way intellegent debate should be stopped. Some of it is usefull. But there is a point where it's easy to see that it no longer really an arguement about the topic at hand. Trouble making is what it becomes.


I came close at a point to leaving this forum alltogether because of childish crap like this. But I found that after I blew off some steam (which was removed :blush: ) and I had some time to cool off, I realized no way was I going to let someone make my experience here so bad that I no longer enjoyed my membership. The ingnore option worked out fine with no more problems from either party (as far as I know).

Now, my last intention was to start another round here believe me! I was only explaining the situation a bit to someone who came across it and laying out the options for situations like this. I also have to admit that seeing that post (since it was quoted) got under my skin a little.

So with that being said, I really don't see the problem here since I am in no way looking for trouble. Furthermore, just to say that this guy isn't making any more comments, does NOT justify that type of behavior at all, period!

Anyways, I'm glad this guy is not saying any more and I hope it stays that way. I would like to remove him from that "ignore" list at some point because I'm sure there is some useful information he has posted that I might like to read one day....

Enough said...:alien:

Administrator
01-29-2003, 01:37 AM
'Bluesteel'

Please, do not concern yourself with any position a moderator might (or might not) take or act upon.

Thanks

Bluesteel
01-29-2003, 02:28 AM
yes almighty one, you alone are right, you alone know all, you never take sides, and even if you did take a side, it would only be the right one, and even if it wasn't the right one, you'd be right, and even if you weren't right, we must obey, and bow, low, and humbly to your power, because you alone are above all criticism

sheppard
01-29-2003, 08:02 AM
Highly recommend a Stander for tackling slopes. Have a very steep slope on one of my commercial acct.s. The 52" handles it great. I'm 6'4" and not entirely full of muscle. The ability to lean into the the slope gives me great saftey control.

Like anything in this business the more you stick with it the more comfortable it is. When I rented a Dixie Chopper to cut a storm water area at my church ( had possible sharp stuff in it) I actually felt strange sitting on it! My body was crying out for my Stander!

Cordially,

S.

:blush:

oakhill2000
01-29-2003, 08:52 AM
Not to get off topic agaiin, But Mowerdude, I thought your website was good. It explains things the way they are and the way they should be. I like especially how you explain to the customers why you charge as you do. Alot of customers in my area are cheap and they pick apart every price and try to figure out what I am making an hour. Lets keep in mind these are people that make 80 to 100 dollars an hour being bullshit artists themselves and they can't see why we should be able to busting our a!%%. I always have to tell them there is more that goes into the job than just labor, I have equipment to keep up and liability, truck, and health insurance to pay for on top of other bills to keep the business running and when I leave the property the job isn't done I still have to go home and unload the equipment and truck this all takes time as well. I think it is good that you point out that you don't hire people who appear sloppy. Kepp up the good work. Also like the part about new landscpaers. I live up in New England and I have lost some work to people who are looking for the cheaper price but end up getting the cheaper job as well. I got a couple people calling back after using the cheaper competetion. So some of them learn and others don't care. Alot of the new comers are teenagers, which I have nothing against, that is how I started I am only 20. But they are just looking for a quick way to earn money cause they heard there is money in the business, not realizing how much work and commitment goes into it. I've seen quite a few businesses run by young kids come in and go under in the past 4 years I have been in business. Well I said enough. As for those who are reading this for the subject, I own a stander and love it. I have no problem turning on slopes most of the time and don't slide. It has great meanuverability and is fast. I would deffinatly take the stander or sentar over any other machine in that style mowers. Thanks, just my 2 cents, have a lovely day!:)

thfireman
05-27-2003, 12:43 AM
Mowerdude,

I just looked at you website. This is a cool website and I especially liked the description you gave of aeration. This is a quote from your site:

"When I aerate, my goal is to put down one hole for every 2 square inches. If done properly, when finished, it will look like a massive convention of Poodles took a potty break on your lawn."

That's original and funny. Keep up the great work!

:D Roger :D

ULTIMATE LAWN
05-27-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by The Mowerdude
I personally HATE egos and I find it virtually impossible to resist sadistically poking fun at an ego and then seeing that ego go ballisticTo me, that's one of life's little pleasures.



Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black.

LOL!

Envy Lawn Service
05-27-2003, 01:14 AM
Anyways, a simple update......

<----- Results

Final machine of choice below......