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oviedo
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
OK, in the process of doing some yard killing. I have a bottle of the commercial round-up I got at the local DIY Lawn store. A couple of things I would add:

1. Not a commercial business but found this site. However if I get good at this who knows. If you are restricted to service providers I'll politely exit
2. The local shop felt that with my yard size (1.25 acres, though not sure how much is grass) that Bahai might be the best way to go. I can't do sod right now we are strapped, we bought the house and then my wife has breast cancer (recovering) but shelling out a lot for that. They were pretty sure that seeding would help.
3. I do have a well and can water.

They seemed to be pretty knowledgeable in their said the choice will likely be Argentine Vs. Pensacola. I am not sure which one at this point.

I am using commercial roundup whatever that's called to spray and kill weeds. My dog was getting these things stuck all over him all winter.

Plan to purchase a lawn sweep as I have a lot of trees. Also previous owner created very little barriers and grass is running right up to the trees. Grrr. What else. It appears to be unkempt St. Augustine (purchased the house late last summer).

Am I on the wrong path here? Pensacola grow in northeast Orlando?

unkownfl
03-28-2012, 05:57 PM
Pensacola. Go to BWI in Apopka it will be pretty cheap seed compared to your ace hardware you're going to now or whatever. Argentine is way expensive at least last year it was. Personally, I'd till the whole yard with a tow behind tiller level and then seed in the bahia. If you're just looking for coverage mow it real short right down to the dirt and spread in the bahia. Work in sections unless you have a full irrigation system you will be running around the yard all day to keep it moist.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Thanks, I've been using this Do-it-Yourself lawn and pest control here in Oviedo. Pretty happy with them so far, seem to be real straight shooters. It's funny though the first time I strapped that 4 gallon sprayer to my back I was like "oh, this is heavy".

I haven't purchased the seed yet they recommended a 100 lb. bag. While I have full irrigation with a well, I am not sure how perfect the coverage is. Might be ahead to get someone to check it out first.

That is a lot of yard to till they seemed to think that overseeding would work, but I would think that the seed has a better chance of hitting dirt if you tilled.

unkownfl
03-28-2012, 07:13 PM
If you go with the Pensacola it will self seed itself if you get a decent germination rate. How much did they get you for the round-up?

I wouldn't think the seed would cost more than 100 bucks for a 100lbs.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 07:40 PM
What is the name of the granulated Round up that you mix up? I think it was $100 even for the big jug. I'll price check the seed it's pretty much a commodity item, if it's that much cheaper in Apopka I can make the drive but it's quite a haul since there aren't any freeways.

unkownfl
03-28-2012, 08:10 PM
100 a jug for quikpro is pretty steep. I would just buy some generic round up at tractor supply for like 40 bucks. It's a liquid but its 40% so it will make around 150 gallons if I remember right.

Ric
03-28-2012, 08:44 PM
Unknown

Please re-frame from giving advice about things you have no real knowledge of. You are giving this guy very bad advice.


oviedo

First important fact is what type of soil you have. pH is very important with Bahia varieties. Your local County extension agent can best help you and will have a general idea of you soil. Bahia likes an acid soil and does well in it. Alkaline soil Bahia does poorly

If your soil is acidic Go with Argentine NOT Pensacola. The reasons are many but let us start with Seed Heads. Pensacola will shoot up seed heads 12 inch tall 3 days after it is cut certain times of the year. Pensacola is a Clumping Grass while Argentine is not. Argentine has more plants or blades of Grass per sq inch and is a more uniform turf compared to Pensacola which is a Pasture Grass. Argentine has a thinner blade and is Better looking. Both are Drought Tolerant and will green up with the first spring rain. But Argentine will have a greener color compared to Pensacola. Argentine Bahia is Residential turf while Pensacola Bahia is Cow food.


.

unkownfl
03-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Ric, I guess you don't like to read....
Pensacola is 5 times cheaper than Argentine. Pensacola is 10 times easier to grow, and will grow in just about any soil condition compared to Argentine. It's all in its name. Argentine is nice but it's just way to expensive. Also, the Pensacola will self seed itself over time faster than Argentine. If you actually look at the grass itself it is just about identical. I have never seen these "clumps" you speak of. Yes, you will have to mow it more often. May I add we are further north than ric we get less rain and I'm sure his yard has Oaks all over it.

unkownfl
03-28-2012, 09:25 PM
Oviedo, here is a link to compare the two that I found to be fair below. There is a list of its sources. Not to take anything from Ric he knows his stuff and he's not wrong on the better turf is the Argentine for looks. I just feel Pensacola would probably be a better choice for you with your current funds, conditions, and prep work.
http://voices.yahoo.com/facts-argentine-vs-pensacola-6127298.html

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Oviedo,

I am also in Oviedo. Couple things. I am assuming you are using Do It Yourself Pest Control on 419/Broadway. Rebecca and Matt are very helpful to home owners and will be a good resource to help you along the way. I will advise you that with their products - you will be paying way above market rate for the products to get that advice. As Ric suggested look at your PH. They provide this service for $1 per sample. I suggest doing a couple samples from different areas around your lawn to get a accurate reading of the entire property.

I suggest looking at slit seeding and not overseeding. Seed has become way to expensive to risk the lower germination rate of overseeding in my opinion.


I am going to try to send you my phone number in a private message. I am not sure if your post count will let you get a private message. If you do not have one from me post a couple more post here and I will be able to send you one eventually. Feel free to give me a buzz. Maybe I can help sort of a couple of options out for you.

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 09:57 PM
Oviedo,

I am also in Oviedo. Couple things. I am assuming you are using Do It Yourself Pest Control on 419/Broadway. Rebecca and Matt are very helpful to home owners and will be a good resource to help you along the way. I will advise you that with their products - you will be paying way above market rate for the products to get that advice. As Ric suggested look at your PH. They provide this service for $1 per sample. I suggest doing a couple samples from different areas around your lawn to get a accurate reading of the entire property.

I suggest looking at slit seeding and not overseeding. Seed has become way to expensive to risk the lower germination rate of overseeding in my opinion.


I am going to try to send you my phone number in a private message. I am not sure if your post count will let you get a private message. If you do not have one from me post a couple more post here and I will be able to send you one eventually. Feel free to give me a buzz. Maybe I can help sort of a couple of options out for you.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:15 PM
Yes Poet I was definitely using that store, it's nearby.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:16 PM
Poet I received your message sort of but couldn't reply or anything. It just advised to raise the post count maybe that's automated.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:20 PM
Oviedo, here is a link to compare the two that I found to be fair below. There is a list of its sources. Not to take anything from Ric he knows his stuff and he's not wrong on the better turf is the Argentine for looks. I just feel Pensacola would probably be a better choice for you with your current funds, conditions, and prep work.
http://voices.yahoo.com/facts-argentine-vs-pensacola-6127298.html

Thanks for the link unknown.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:24 PM
Unknown

Please re-frame from giving advice about things you have no real knowledge of. You are giving this guy very bad advice.


oviedo

First important fact is what type of soil you have. pH is very important with Bahia varieties. Your local County extension agent can best help you and will have a general idea of you soil. Bahia likes an acid soil and does well in it. Alkaline soil Bahia does poorly

If your soil is acidic Go with Argentine NOT Pensacola. The reasons are many but let us start with Seed Heads. Pensacola will shoot up seed heads 12 inch tall 3 days after it is cut certain times of the year. Pensacola is a Clumping Grass while Argentine is not. Argentine has more plants or blades of Grass per sq inch and is a more uniform turf compared to Pensacola which is a Pasture Grass. Argentine has a thinner blade and is Better looking. Both are Drought Tolerant and will green up with the first spring rain. But Argentine will have a greener color compared to Pensacola. Argentine Bahia is Residential turf while Pensacola Bahia is Cow food.


.

I like this description. I am torn between my wife wanting a nice yard, and knowing I don't have the time to be spending a ton of time in it. Between work and kids sports commitments this summer I am stuck with mostly weekends with an occasional mow. The lawn is of mostly taken over with clover and weeds, and it was suggested I might have been overwatering it.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
One other thing their was a commercial service that came by and offered their services at roughly $600/month. I can't remember which one gave the estimate, I just knew we weren't going in that direction, I think they were more appropriate for people wanting golf course beauty. His report said it was St. Augustine, but I know for a fact I had those tall seed distributors growing as well. Maybe there was a partial of each, perhaps the previous owner laid St. Augustine sod years ago and some bahai was brought it. Since they grew tall we are talking Pensacola, and my reading says that yes perhaps I was over watering.

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:28 PM
One more thing what are the weeds that stick to my dog and end up stuck all over your clothes? The local DIY place suggested they have a rather expensive herbicide that should kill most everything except Bahai once it's established, but is that the case?

oviedo
03-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Anyone have any recommendations on a lawn sweeper? I still have some leaves on that ground which is not good for seeding. The reviews on these things are all over the place.

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 11:51 PM
One more thing what are the weeds that stick to my dog and end up stuck all over your clothes? The local DIY place suggested they have a rather expensive herbicide that should kill most everything except Bahai once it's established, but is that the case?

Sandspur? No herbicide kills almost everything.....well except non selective herbicides like Round Up.

Maybe your post count is high enough now!

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 11:53 PM
Yes Poet I was definitely using that store, it's nearby.


Very helpful for the do it yourselfers.......like I said there products can be found cheaper elsewhere but remember you are essentially buying there products because it comes with advice that generally gets you going in the right direction.

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 11:56 PM
Anyone have any recommendations on a lawn sweeper? I still have some leaves on that ground which is not good for seeding. The reviews on these things are all over the place.

Lawn Sweepers per say are not something that most of us here on the Florida forum actively use. Not sure you will get anyone that has huge information on these from FL as it is not common to collect leaves down here.

Landscape Poet
03-28-2012, 11:57 PM
Still not able to send you a private message to send my phone number yet.

Landscape Poet
03-29-2012, 12:10 AM
I haven't purchased the seed yet they recommended a 100 lb. bag. While I have full irrigation with a well, I am not sure how perfect the coverage is. Might be ahead to get someone to check it out first.


you are over a acre correct? I would feel that you would want more seed myself. Maybe Fl-Lanscape can chime in as he does a lot of seeding but I would think you would want closer to 5lbs of seed per every one thousand square foot to give yourself the most likely chance of germinating a quality lawn if overseeding.

But as Ric has pointed out one of the most important factors is your PH and until you know you have it correct for the targeted turfgrass getting into seeding does not matter much.

Ric
03-29-2012, 03:27 AM
Ric, I guess you don't like to read....
Pensacola is 5 times cheaper than Argentine. Pensacola is 10 times easier to grow, and will grow in just about any soil condition compared to Argentine. It's all in its name. Argentine is nice but it's just way to expensive. Also, the Pensacola will self seed itself over time faster than Argentine. If you actually look at the grass itself it is just about identical. I have never seen these "clumps" you speak of. Yes, you will have to mow it more often. May I add we are further north than ric we get less rain and I'm sure his yard has Oaks all over it.

Unknown

Cheap Crap is still Crap. Just the 12 inch seed heads 3 days after mowing should be a deal killer. Are we talking Lawns or Pastures?


Mikey

Roundup is my preferred SELECTIVE herbicide for controlling Sand Spurs in Bahia turf. One more Time, Roundup is my favorite SELECTIVE herbicide in Bahia Turf. But then I have forgotten more about Roundup than most people know. Yes Roundup is a SELECTIVE herbicide.

For the unwashed masses, SELECTIVE herbicide on Bahia means it doesn't kill the Bahia if applied correctly.


.

oviedo
03-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Still not able to send you a private message to send my phone number yet.

Still seem to be blocked.

oviedo
03-29-2012, 10:58 AM
Unknown

Cheap Crap is still Crap. Just the 12 inch seed heads 3 days after mowing should be a deal killer. Are we talking Lawns or Pastures?


Mikey

Roundup is my preferred SELECTIVE herbicide for controlling Sand Spurs in Bahia turf. One more Time, Roundup is my favorite SELECTIVE herbicide in Bahia Turf. But then I have forgotten more about Roundup than most people know. Yes Roundup is a SELECTIVE herbicide.

For the unwashed masses, SELECTIVE herbicide on Bahia means it doesn't kill the Bahia if applied correctly.


.

I gotta be honest I hate those damn sticks that rise up, so I am still considering Argentine. So you say for Sand Spurs round up can kill them without killing the grass? Are we talking commercial wal-mart/home depot round up?

Ric
03-29-2012, 01:12 PM
Still seem to be blocked.


You Need 25 Posts before you can receive or send Private Messages.




I gotta be honest I hate those damn sticks that rise up, so I am still considering Argentine. So you say for Sand Spurs round up can kill them without killing the grass? Are we talking commercial wal-mart/home depot round up?


1/2 oz of Glyphosate 41% in a gallon of water sprayed over One Thousand sq ft will not kill Bahia, But it will kill Sand Spurs. That same rate is used as a chemical mowing rate and slows Bahia Growth. It also acts as a Broad lief Herbicide. Agriculture has been doing this for Years along Fence Lines and between Trees in Citrus Groves. Progressive Road & Right Of Way contracts for both State and County are now Chemically mowing Bids. Etc Etc I cut my own Bremuda lawn last year 8 times and was never over 6 inches tall. There are drawl back like stripping if you don't pay close attention to details.

John Franz PhD worked in R&D for Monsanto and formulated Glyphosate as a Growth regular that later became the most Financial successful Pesticide ever. BTW It was discovered as a Non select by MISTAKE.

PS Remember Roundup will kill sand spurs but it will not remove them from your lawn. The Dead spurs can still stick you and reseed them self.


.

oviedo
03-29-2012, 09:31 PM
1/2 oz of Glyphosate 41% in a gallon of water sprayed over One Thousand sq ft will not kill Bahia, But it will kill Sand Spurs. That same rate is used as a chemical mowing rate and slows Bahia Growth. It also acts as a Broad lief Herbicide. Agriculture has been doing this for Years along Fence Lines and between Trees in Citrus Groves. Progressive Road & Right Of Way contracts for both State and County are now Chemically mowing Bids. Etc Etc I cut my own Bremuda lawn last year 8 times and was never over 6 inches tall. There are drawl back like stripping if you don't pay close attention to details.

John Franz PhD worked in R&D for Monsanto and formulated Glyphosate as a Growth regular that later became the most Financial successful Pesticide ever. BTW It was discovered as a Non select by MISTAKE.

PS Remember Roundup will kill sand spurs but it will not remove them from your lawn. The Dead spurs can still stick you and reseed them self.


.

So you actually used the Glyphosate right on top of the grass a couple of times per year? This doesn't kill the bermuda or it won't the Bahai? Interesting.

Do you have to get the Bahai pretty well established first?

oviedo
03-29-2012, 09:35 PM
Lawn Sweepers per say are not something that most of us here on the Florida forum actively use. Not sure you will get anyone that has huge information on these from FL as it is not common to collect leaves down here.

I guess you all mulch them down then? My problem is I have tons of leaves, acorns and Pine Needles. With over an acre it just seems crazy to try and blow them around or mulch it all. Now I do have wooded areas that are just kind of nothing, but didn't realize I'd need a blackpack blower to move any of this stuff any significant distance.

Ric
03-29-2012, 10:28 PM
So you actually used the Glyphosate right on top of the grass a couple of times per year? This doesn't kill the bermuda or it won't the Bahai? Interesting.

Do you have to get the Bahai pretty well established first?



http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld07A016.pdf

Check Out Page 5 section 8.3 CHEMICAL MOWING. The rates there are for Cool Season turf which isn't a tolerant of Roundup as warm season turf is.

The Rate I gave of 1/2 oz per thousand is a tried and proven rate for Sand Spurs on both Bahia and Bermuda. However at that rate you might get some yellowing or stripping. In all cases you won't get a dark Green turf and Chemical mowing is not for fine lawns. Utility Turf can be managed very economical with Chemical mowing.



.

oviedo
03-30-2012, 12:14 AM
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld07A016.pdf

Check Out Page 5 section 8.3 CHEMICAL MOWING. The rates there are for Cool Season turf which isn't a tolerant of Roundup as warm season turf is.

The Rate I gave of 1/2 oz per thousand is a tried and proven rate for Sand Spurs on both Bahia and Bermuda. However at that rate you might get some yellowing or stripping. In all cases you won't get a dark Green turf and Chemical mowing is not for fine lawns. Utility Turf can be managed very economical with Chemical mowing.

.

Interesting information, need to research this Chemical Mowing concept. Looks like plenty more around the site.

oviedo
03-30-2012, 12:17 AM
By the way I have a 4 gallon backpack sprayer is that going to be able to do the trick. It's a bit of a pain right now trying to kill the lawn, or I should say going slow. Doesn't help that the kids have baseball games almost every night.

I also have a batting cage in the back that gets a bit sloppy because getting a mower in there is a pain. So I weed wack, maybe something like this chemical mowing would be better than moving the net around and weed whacking. The grass in their gets very little sun and it's very sandy.

Ric
03-30-2012, 10:45 AM
By the way I have a 4 gallon backpack sprayer is that going to be able to do the trick. It's a bit of a pain right now trying to kill the lawn, or I should say going slow. Doesn't help that the kids have baseball games almost every night.

I also have a batting cage in the back that gets a bit sloppy because getting a mower in there is a pain. So I weed wack, maybe something like this chemical mowing would be better than moving the net around and weed whacking. The grass in their gets very little sun and it's very sandy.

Oviedo

Fence Lines and other Weed Wacker areas can be controlled by Chemical Mowing with Roundup IF you accept a little brown out once and a while. Remember I said this was not for fine turf only Utility turf. Fine Turf Growth Regulator like Primo are super expensive for Bahia at 33oz per acre label rate. BTW the St Augustine rate is only 4.5 to 6.5 oz per acre.

Roundup Chemical mowing is the cheapest start up cost. However I have other chemicals that cost a small fortune per gallon but are even cheaper per acre than Roundup or generic Roundup. They also work better and longer. But once again Utility Turf only.


.

bug-guy
03-30-2012, 10:52 AM
i have not read the whole post, but agree with Ric, pennscola bahia will be a PITA to mow the seed heads will bend over and pop back up. argentina would be and has been my choice. yes it's $$. check into a slit seeder rental and google agrentina seed germination.
the seed MUST be in contact with the soil, but if to deep you will have less than disireable results. also check with your county/town for water restrictions, well or city you still must comply. and alot of municiplaties have NO provision for seed, just sod and plugs. one of my cust got a 500.00 fine last year. remember when you water you just need to water to the depth of the seed, any heavier would be a waste and poss wash some away

Ric
03-30-2012, 11:14 AM
i have not read the whole post, but agree with Ric, pennscola bahia will be a PITA to mow the seed heads will bend over and pop back up. argentina would be and has been my choice. yes it's $$. check into a slit seeder rental and google agrentina seed germination.
the seed MUST be in contact with the soil, but if to deep you will have less than disireable results. also check with your county/town for water restrictions, well or city you still must comply. and alot of municiplaties have NO provision for seed, just sod and plugs. one of my cust got a 500.00 fine last year. remember when you water you just need to water to the depth of the seed, any heavier would be a waste and poss wash some away

Bug Guy

Great post. Yes Timing is import and the dry season might be a better time to seed because of heavy summer rain. Adding Brown top Millet which germinates quickly as a cover crop help hold water and soil. Spreading Straw over the area also helps to hold in moisture. The big thing in seeding is stopping erosion as you pointed out. very Light watering several times a day for the first 30 days works for me. BTW I have a Slit Seeder that doesn't get used a lot. I also have the Roller.


.

Ric
03-30-2012, 12:12 PM
Anyone have any recommendations on a lawn sweeper? I still have some leaves on that ground which is not good for seeding. The reviews on these things are all over the place.

Re-reading this post on a lazy Friday after noon. Mulch the leafs instead of removing them. They add organic matter to your soil.


BUT FOR SAND SPURS, Drag a burlap cloth around your yard to pick up any stray Sand Spur stickers which are seeds. Sand Spur are hard to totally get rid of and it takes both Chemical and Mechanical means to control them. Cutting the yard short before seeding will help to pick up more Sand Spurs.


.

oviedo
03-30-2012, 05:20 PM
Burlap cloth I like it. The more you can pick up the less I get in my house and they do act as seeds.

Slit seeding, I am not sure I am prepared for, need to check into it. Do I have much of a use for this tow behind seeder I bought? I could always return it's still boxed. 100 lb. capacity could have use for fertilizer and bug killer I suppose right?

oviedo
03-30-2012, 05:23 PM
By the way I did go ahead and spray this 41% glyphosate near my fences because I have that wire stuff and the weed wacker would get screwed up trying to cut down weeds in that area. So I browned it out thinking the heck with it.

oviedo
03-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Off the top of my head with the 4 gallon backpack sprayer I am using 1 oz per gallon is that right?

So basically chemical mowing is 1/2 of that amount? You know I'll have to get back and check sometime tomorrow I don't know if that scoop constitutes an oz. or not. Basically the roundup lid can fit 3 scoops and we add a 4th or something to that effect.

Ric
03-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Off the top of my head with the 4 gallon backpack sprayer I am using 1 oz per gallon is that right?

So basically chemical mowing is 1/2 of that amount? You know I'll have to get back and check sometime tomorrow I don't know if that scoop constitutes an oz. or not. Basically the roundup lid can fit 3 scoops and we add a 4th or something to that effect.

Oviedo

Reading this question I would like to suggest you hire a professional. I don't believe you are able to follow the proper math or understand Pesticides enough to calibrate the proper product for Chemical mowing. Sorry I don't have the patiences to hold your hand.



.

Landscape Poet
03-30-2012, 05:53 PM
Slit seeding, I am not sure I am prepared for, need to check into it. Do I have much of a use for this tow behind seeder I bought? I could always return it's still boxed. 100 lb. capacity could have use for fertilizer and bug killer I suppose right?

Slit seeder is available for rent at the sunbelt rental at the lowes here in town. I think they rent it for roughly $77 a day. Rent it on Sat. and you get Sunday too at no additional charge they are closed on Sundays. If you can run a push mower you can operate this. Not sure what your tow behind seeder cost but I would assume you can get away with renting this for much less than what you paid considering you are going to use it how many times?

oviedo
03-30-2012, 11:43 PM
Slit seeder is available for rent at the sunbelt rental at the lowes here in town. I think they rent it for roughly $77 a day. Rent it on Sat. and you get Sunday too at no additional charge they are closed on Sundays. If you can run a push mower you can operate this. Not sure what your tow behind seeder cost but I would assume you can get away with renting this for much less than what you paid considering you are going to use it how many times?

Thanks, I can't imagine it's too hard. The tow behind seeder was $130 or something still returnable. I'll check out sunbelt the $77 is well worth the extra effort in getting the seed to touch soil. I just think the tow behind seeder might not do too good of a job, whereas this slit seeding from all I've read looks good.

oviedo
03-30-2012, 11:55 PM
Oviedo

Reading this question I would like to suggest you hire a professional. I don't believe you are able to follow the proper math or understand Pesticides enough to calibrate the proper product for Chemical mowing. Sorry I don't have the patiences to hold your hand.



.

No worries, you caught me just figuring I'd ask a couple of questions to get the post count up before being gone all evening. Trying to learn all this at 1:00 AM on little sleep with two kids playing HS baseball, a wife just getting out of breast cancer surgery last week (double mastectomy) etc. I'll sit down and do the math over the weekend with what I have as far as tools which is just the 4-gallon backpack sprayer. From reading your stuff on some other sub-forums, it sounds like you've concocted a fertilizer cocktail.

But yes total newbie here considering you introduced the concept to me just a couple of days ago.

oviedo
03-31-2012, 12:59 AM
One other thing Ric I just checked my jug it's the 73% QuickPro with the diquat I hadn't been out to the shed, it's not even compatible with chemical mowing. Strictly for killing, by my calculation, there will be no chemical mowing with this stuff.

In any case reading back through your post outlines it just fine. The key is you need the 41% if you are going to attempt it. The other thing I saw on the label you provided was that you could in fact induce a doormant period with the chemical mowing.

Now in my neighborhood nobody seems to have what I'd call a lush beautiful lawn. Each house on this little street is roughly an acre, and I am not seeing super fine lawns so I'll have to determine if I want to consider this utility turf or not but it doesn't seem like a little browning or striping would be the worst thing in the world if it kept us from picking the dog for an hour.

oviedo
04-01-2012, 01:22 AM
you are over a acre correct? I would feel that you would want more seed myself. Maybe Fl-Lanscape can chime in as he does a lot of seeding but I would think you would want closer to 5lbs of seed per every one thousand square foot to give yourself the most likely chance of germinating a quality lawn if overseeding.

But as Ric has pointed out one of the most important factors is your PH and until you know you have it correct for the targeted turfgrass getting into seeding does not matter much.

Looks like it's a mandatory 10-day wait +posts which should come up in 6 or so days.

In case referencing your message here is slit seeding considered an over seeding even if it's creating a groove in the dirt or did you mean if I used a spreader without digging in? Just did some google earth checking and the property line total is about 1 acre. The other .25 is wooded and not really used as far as yard maintenance. In addition I have the house, the pool, two very large driveways including a long circular where the entire inside of the driveway is just a mulched area. So I don't have exact measurements but the portion of the yard needing seed is likely well short of an acre.

easy-lift guy
04-08-2012, 10:55 AM
Ric, I guess you don't like to read....
Pensacola is 5 times cheaper than Argentine. Pensacola is 10 times easier to grow, and will grow in just about any soil condition compared to Argentine. It's all in its name. Argentine is nice but it's just way to expensive. Also, the Pensacola will self seed itself over time faster than Argentine. If you actually look at the grass itself it is just about identical. I have never seen these "clumps" you speak of. Yes, you will have to mow it more often. May I add we are further north than ric we get less rain and I'm sure his yard has Oaks all over it.

Pensacola never looks good after a mowing regardless how sharp you mower blades are, so if you don't mind the appearance of a lawn of fraed rope, you can go with Pensacola. I would never, and only would choose Argentine Bahia, since your on a budget and you can water yourself.
easy-lift guy

ProMo
04-08-2012, 09:05 PM
One more thing what are the weeds that stick to my dog and end up stuck all over your clothes? The local DIY place suggested they have a rather expensive herbicide that should kill most everything except Bahai once it's established, but is that the case?
unless you are saying a lot of curse words picking the seeds off your dog and clothes I would think it is not sandspur and more likely Hairy beggarticks or beggarweed. As for seeding I have seen many failed attempts and the last sucessful one I saw the guy took my advice after two failed attempts and scratched the surface with a hard rake and now has a nice argentine bahia lawn. I have also seen one I laughed at were they purchased a pallet of st augustine and threw a piece about every 30 feet and ended up with a nice lawn

oviedo
04-09-2012, 12:15 AM
unless you are saying a lot of curse words picking the seeds off your dog and clothes I would think it is not sandspur and more likely Hairy beggarticks or beggarweed. As for seeding I have seen many failed attempts and the last sucessful one I saw the guy took my advice after two failed attempts and scratched the surface with a hard rake and now has a nice argentine bahia lawn. I have also seen one I laughed at were they purchased a pallet of st augustine and threw a piece about every 30 feet and ended up with a nice lawn

The St. Augustine spread?

Oh and those things are called hairy beggarticks? Annoying, as hell that's for sure. The wiser folk around here are telling me to slit seed, hopefully that helps the seeds to germinate.

Ric
04-13-2012, 07:52 AM
I can't completely knock Penscola Bahia, it does have certain advantages. Especially in Pastures and No class landscapes. They nick name it POOR MAN'S GRASS for a reason.



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bugsNbows
04-13-2012, 08:11 AM
I can't completely knock Penscola Bahia, it does have certain advantages. Especially in Pastures and No class landscapes. They nick name it POOR MAN'S GRASS for a reason.



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+100! It's cow pasture grass ... about one notch better than dirt for home lawn usage. I'd rather have a seeded common bermuda lawn than bahia. Just my $.02.

Ric
04-13-2012, 10:55 AM
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There appears to be some missing posts here. Mainly the one I replied to and bugsNbows commented on.



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oviedo
04-13-2012, 10:56 AM
+100! It's cow pasture grass ... about one notch better than dirt for home lawn usage. I'd rather have a seeded common bermuda lawn than bahia. Just my $.02.

Strongly considering Argentine only, I do not plan to use Pensacola. I had Bermuda in West Texas back in the mid-90s, and it wasn't too bad you just had to stay on top of edging. The reality is I have some sandy/shady areas that either Bermuda or Argentine will probably struggle a bit with, but I can't possibly sod a yard this size.

oviedo
04-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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There appears to be some missing posts here. Mainly the one I replied to and bugsNbows commented on.



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I see the one about Pensacola being Poor Man's on the previous page that both of you commented on was it another set of comments missing? I had only replied to the one message.

oviedo
04-14-2012, 10:36 PM
Very much want to thank you guys for mentioning you don't bother with those toe-behind lawn sweepers. I went with a Stihl BR-600 Magnum, and that was a seriously nice piece of equipment. I moved so much crap off the lawn today I was shocked. I could not have seeded it with those caked in leaves, and raking was out of the question. I also got the plate mulch kit for the loose stragglers and need to drop the deck and swap blades tomorrow.

PremierPest
04-30-2012, 10:07 PM
Argentine bahia is better for lawns. Pensacola is what the seed road sides and fields with.

oviedo
07-07-2012, 04:06 PM
Finally got my lawn test results back. Between a crazy summer baseball schedule and my wife's cancer and subsequent re hospitalization for an infection, I was late getting all the tests done.

So I was good on ph for Argentine, but needed to add boron, manganese and sulpomag which has magnesium/potassium. Realistically not all that expensive, we shall see how it does. The Bahai is a little patchy in some spots, and really that could have been alleviated by getting the soil correct ahead of time, and operating that slit seeder a little better. Those things are a ***** in the sandy parts of the yard. Outside of that everything was good. The other thing I'll have to iron out is figuring out which areas to give up in terms of grass (i.e. too much shade) and what to do with time.

If I have a cluster of trees, probably best to create a mulch area. They also said Jasmine can be used in some areas where there is just too much shade. The other option is to chemical mow in those areas ala Ric's advice. Certain areas look really nice, according to the store I went to they said be patient, let it grow out a little and there will be some spreading. The boron foliar will be the best of the three in terms of adding green apparently. Might need to overseed a couple of areas.

Lots of good information here from the professionals.

rob7233
07-07-2012, 10:34 PM
Sounds like you've been up DIY Pest Control and spoke with either Rebecca or Matt. The Argentine Bahia is the only one recommended for residential lawns due to the growth habit is less open than the Pensacola variety. Roadside turf varieties are not suggested for residential lawns.

The A. Bahia is the only officially recognized drought tolerant turf variety by the state of Florida (not Zoysia either). So it's plenty drought resistant along with having lower input requirements than SA. Although, to get the best results, you'll need to give it appropriate consistent care.

Another good suggestion for those shady areas might be Mondo grass in either the standard or Dwarf variety.

oviedo
07-08-2012, 12:51 AM
Sounds like you've been up DIY Pest Control and spoke with either Rebecca or Matt. The Argentine Bahia is the only one recommended for residential lawns due to the growth habit is less open than the Pensacola variety. Roadside turf varieties are not suggested for residential lawns.

The A. Bahia is the only officially recognized drought tolerant turf variety by the state of Florida (not Zoysia either). So it's plenty drought resistant along with having lower input requirements than SA. Although, to get the best results, you'll need to give it appropriate consistent care.

Another good suggestion for those shady areas might be Mondo grass in either the standard or Dwarf variety.

Yes exactly DIY,I am not sure who they send their soil analysis work to. I still have some traces of Pensacola, not sure where it came from seems like the original owner (who built it in '85) put in St. Aug. but the Argentine was the way to go.