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View Full Version : Employee start and end times


GXL2008
03-29-2012, 10:54 PM
When do you guys normally start your crews time (not including the driver)? When they get to the first job or the office?

just cuts lawn care
03-29-2012, 11:11 PM
My guys usual start time is when they leave office and stops when they finish last yard but thats just me

RoyalTree
03-29-2012, 11:30 PM
You have to pay them for winshield time. Just because they are not on a machine does not mean you dont need to pay them for their time. The law is very simple. Do you also stop the clock when they move from yard to yard?
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DEPENDABLE LANDSCAPING
03-29-2012, 11:32 PM
From pre arranged start time to arrival back to shop.
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RoyalTree
03-29-2012, 11:40 PM
Our guys start anytime between 6 and 7:30 and are on the road within 10 minutes max. They get paid until they sign out in the office after parking the truck in the afternoon. We make them call in for lunch break start.
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GXL2008
03-29-2012, 11:44 PM
My first yards are around an hour away I pay them one way. I guess i could just have them drive and meet me at the first job,and no I keep their time going threw the day. I looked at Florida law it is not clear.

Landscape Poet
03-30-2012, 07:55 AM
GXL .. it is my understanding you need to pay them for windshield time. There are certain positions which this not required by law but the are the exception not the rule
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JACIRR
03-30-2012, 09:14 AM
You do not actually have to pay them for windshield time. I only pay my drivers for the time that they are driving to the site. You do however have to give them the option to meet directly at the site. I have read up on the federal laws on this. You can not make them meet at a shop location, and not pay them for drive time. You have to allow them to either meet at a shop and get a ride to the site, or let them meet you at the site. We pay the driver from the time they leave the shop, until the time they are done parking the truck and done with paperwork at the end of the day. The others are paid from the time of arrival at the 1st site, until the end of the job at the last site.

unkownfl
03-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Cheap SOB. Just pay your guys and feel good about it.

JACIRR
03-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Would you pay your guys to sleep on the job? 95% of the time, that is what they do when on their way to the site.

unkownfl
03-30-2012, 11:14 AM
Would you pay your guys to sleep on the job? 95% of the time, that is what they do when on their way to the site.

What do you want them to do sharpen blades on the way? It's not their fault that the OP bid jobs an hour away.

JACIRR
03-30-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm not actually in the mowing business, so no. I was actually just informing about the port to portal law that allows the employer to make the decision. I do not make my guys meet at the shop. They can go directly to the site if they choose. Or they can ride to the site in the company truck. It is their decision. Our season is only 6 months long, so a lot of that drive time turns into overtime pay. When you have to work as much as you can before snow falls. They go on unemployment for the winter. When the employer pays the unemployment, I in turn pay for their 6 month vacation.

bug-guy
03-30-2012, 11:41 AM
when our guy's were on hourly pay and worked local, they got paid from the time they left till they returned. now on long distance jobs (windshield time) they got 1/2 pay per hour, for the drive, which at that time was still way above min.
p.s. they got 1/2 hr for lunch paid for

JACIRR
03-30-2012, 11:44 AM
I do the same with lunch. I do not take time away from the guys when they take lunch during the day. If they worked 8am - 5pm, and take a lunch, I pay them from 8am - 5pm.

Ric
03-30-2012, 11:56 AM
.


I SEE LAWYER ADVERTISING ""DID YOUR EMPLOYER PAY ALL YOUR OVER TIME PAY"" ETC??


I don't have employees now. But It would be nice to know the actual law as to what you do have to pay. Even if you have paid correctly a Lawyer could ruin you.


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grandview (2006)
03-30-2012, 01:52 PM
Guys that don't want to pay drive time. How much would it cost you to hire a another employee vs drive time paid out?

Ric
03-30-2012, 02:16 PM
Guys that don't want to pay drive time. How much would it cost you to hire a another employee vs drive time paid out?

I am Sorry BUT

IMHO you have to pay Drive time and I believe the law is written that way. I would hate to have some Druggie see a TV advertisement by a scum bag lawyer and decide to sue me. This was the guy that lasted two weeks if you count the 4 days he didn't make it in and the 5 days he came in late.

But this whole discussion goes back to charging enough to run a business. If you can't make enough money to do things right and still turn a profit, Go to work flipping hamburgs.



.

grandview (2006)
03-30-2012, 03:12 PM
Ric,I mean you should pay from the time they punch to punch out. Why would you waste time trying to keep track of small stuff like that. Besides if your riding with the boss and your talking about what to do during the day you are at work and should be paid. I was just saying to try and dock 10-20 a week for drive time,it will cost you more in ads trying to find a good employee.

RoyalTree
03-30-2012, 05:14 PM
Lawyers will have a field day with you scumbags that work like this. Its called wage theft.

I can only imagine what other kind of laws are broken. Prob no workers comp, minimum wage, overtime and no green card so you can call immigration if they complain.

Like ric said, charge enough to do it right or get out.
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01thump
03-30-2012, 06:09 PM
I pay my guys on start time meaning i tell them where we meet and a time in the morning they are on the clock from that time until i bring them back there at the end of the day to there cars..dont care about the law this is just fair to me i have worked for many people in the past and i expect the same you tell me to be somewhere at a certain time then that its when my pay starts until you bring me back...i do not mind them sleeping between job locations my guys work hard for me if they do not pull there own i will let them go and they know it i pay good but expect to not have to baby sit and i do not i am an owner and i work hard for my money they know if i am working harder than them they will not be with me long..i respect my guys and know with out good help i will not make it in this buisness...my two cents..

Ric
03-30-2012, 06:10 PM
Lawyers will have a field day with you scumbags that work like this. Its called wage theft.

I can only imagine what other kind of laws are broken. Prob no workers comp, minimum wage, overtime and no green card so you can call immigration if they complain.

Like ric said, charge enough to do it right or get out.
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Royal Tree

I am going to get in trouble with my next statement. Sorry the truth isn't always nice. The problem in the Green Industry is those who can't hold a real job or run a real business end up in the Green Industry. The reason is limited qualifications and customers who think unlicensed contractors will give them the best price. Also is the attitude that any one can cut grass or do landscape. Add in that most states give away Pesticide Licenses in Crack Jack boxes and the public has a bad out look on the industry in general.

LS member Like Gregory who are educated Home owner end up answering questions for """ professional """ Guys with a 100 lawn accounts. Posts with basic business question like this one are a regular occurrence. Those with good business sense and who have taken the time to get a real horticultural Education Like fl-landscape, do get ahead and make a very nice living. But fl-Landscape bought and completed the Georgia certification program. BTW a very good home study course with Mid term and final tests given by a University or County extension office. While I am not sure that course is accredited, it is an excellent education. It is WHAT YOU KNOW that lets you get ahead.


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Ric
03-30-2012, 06:13 PM
Ric,I mean you should pay from the time they punch to punch out. Why would you waste time trying to keep track of small stuff like that. Besides if your riding with the boss and your talking about what to do during the day you are at work and should be paid. I was just saying to try and dock 10-20 a week for drive time,it will cost you more in ads trying to find a good employee.

Grandview

My Bad, I mis read your post. I see now you were correct about proper pay.


.

Landscape Poet
03-30-2012, 06:21 PM
Here is my thoughts about trying to ride that fine line of the Federal Law. Say you are in the truck with the employee who is choosing to partake in that free ride to the job site! You as the boss are discussing business related issues with the employee.....is he on the clock??? You are darn right he is. Believe it or not if you call your employee at home about work issues...then you should pay them for that time...if not...some scummer could potentially sue your tail for not paying them for the work they put in.
If a employee does anything for you...anything...you darn well better believe he is expected to get compensated for it. If not -I predict one sour employee will bankrupt you.

GXL2008
03-30-2012, 07:22 PM
Thanks for your responses. I was just wondering how you all handle the Portal Law. We do mostly commercial work that requires long distance travel. We do carry WC, GL, we have a PCO and we pay very fair wages. However, it is annoying to watch employees sleep for an hour while most of America commutes an hour paying their own gas and in rush hour traffic. Thank you.

grandview (2006)
03-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Rather have them sleep on the way then on the jobsite working slow. Actually they did commute to work,your shop location.

unkownfl
03-30-2012, 11:05 PM
Thanks for your responses. I was just wondering how you all handle the Portal Law. We do mostly commercial work that requires long distance travel. We do carry WC, GL, we have a PCO and we pay very fair wages. However, it is annoying to watch employees sleep for an hour while most of America commutes an hour paying their own gas and in rush hour traffic. Thank you.

You make no sense, do they live at your shop? They had to get to your show up didn't they? :dizzy:

GXL2008
03-31-2012, 12:47 AM
You make no sense, do they live at your shop? They had to get to your show up didn't they? :dizzy:

Well, I believe you meant to say "they have to get to my shop don't they"? They do get there, but they are picked up by my business partner. Hence, there is no expense paid out of their pockets to get there. On certain days, we have to travel about 45 min to the HOA's that we maintain once they are dropped off at the shop. So, it does not make sense to me that if their travel is taken care of and they sleep on the way to this first job why would I have to pay them all that time if no work has been done? Of course, the field supervisors are paid to drive from the time they leave, but the guys that do no work should not be paid until they get to the job site. The cases that have been tried by Florida Law support this arrangement. My sole intention was to see how your businesses were arranged and your opinions on this matter. I have no intention to be unfair to my guys, but I pay way above normal wage to get quality workers and I believe this is a fair arrangement.

Landscape Poet
03-31-2012, 08:52 AM
The cases that have been tried by Florida Law support this arrangement.

I am sure they do not support this arrangement. That is why John Morgan and every other lawyer is running ads for employees not being paid commute time, overtime etc etc huh! Like I said in my first post..it is a fine line and approved for certain positions in certain industries.

K.E.L - has a office in the TAMPA area and they have what they call Walk In wednesday where you can walk in without a appointment and free of charge and discuss your case. Maybe you should try this and tell him your situation and how you are running your operation and see if he agrees that it is a good business practice.

GXL2008
03-31-2012, 10:05 AM
Thanks
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grandview (2006)
03-31-2012, 11:34 AM
Check my fuzzy math. You travel an hour each way with no pay. Then you put in a full day.So with that if your paying them say,10 an hr. I figure your shorting them 250 bucks a week.

THEGOLDPRO
03-31-2012, 11:47 AM
We start at 8 am end around 5 pm, They get paid from 8-5 with a half hour taken off for lunch.

GreenT
04-01-2012, 11:53 PM
However, it is annoying to watch employees sleep for an hour while most of America commutes an hour paying their own gas and in rush hour traffic. Thank you.


What is annoying is having a boss with that kind of attitude about the people working for him in what many consider hard labor in less than comfortable conditions and, hopefully, allowing him to enjoy a profitable business.

So.... the Fair Labor Standards Act has only been in effect since 1938, let me give you the news....


An employee drives, walks, rides a bike -rush hour or not- to your shop = their dime

As soon as an employee clocks in at your shop, any subsequent travel = your dime

And as long as said employee has not clocked out at the original starting location = your dime.


All this, btw, documented on time cards or other contemporaneous (that means not after the fact but real life, as it happens) record keeping system where the employee can verify the hours recorded. For example, automatic lunch or other break deductions are against the law without employee verification.

I'm not going to indict a whole industry since I know many reputable operators, but those out there nickle and diming employees out of their rightful earnings is much too common in lawncare. It needs to change.

This from a guy that almost never agrees with either Ric or Grandview on just about anything... but they're both right. If this is where your concerns are as an employer trying to run a profitable business, you are in the wrong one.

.

jvanvliet
04-02-2012, 08:02 AM
We start @ 7:00 AM, 15 minute break in the morning, 30 minute lunch and 15 minute break in the afternoon and work till we are finished; usually between 2 & 3.. Then they go home. Sometimes they'll go home early (like off season) sometimes they go home a little later. Any hours over 40, they get 1.5X

McFarland_Lawn_Care
04-02-2012, 09:20 AM
Depends on the work day but usually 8-6, we run 4 10 hr days. Any over time is obviously time and half. Figured everyone did it that way - it's the law. You have to start paying your employees at the time they arrive to the place you instructed them to. Period. Listen folks, a lot of us would have a terrible time if it weren't for our employees. Maybe some employees suck, but you NEED, NEED, NEED to find the right guys and then pay them very well. Relieves so much headache. This "boss" vs employee attitude only creates poisonous tension. They can tell when their boss is trying to take advantage from them. Apply the golden rule and you should be fine. Be kind. If they are lazy, let them go. But if they work hard for you, reward them and keep them happy. Buy their lunch once in awhile - is a few pizzas gonna break you? Make it a place where good people WANT to come work. If word gets around that the boss is always trying to cut pay back, people will shy away when you need to hire more help. Okay, sorry, stepping off soap box now. =D Everyone can run their business how they want, this just seems the easiest to me. Employees can be you best asset or worst enemy.

MR-G
04-02-2012, 09:56 AM
we usually work 8-4 mon-fri....we pay hourly from the time they leave the shop until they return....we pay thru all breaks.....but my guys work hard...any slackers are quickly let go....bonus is there as well for reaching certain goals.....as far as i know my guys like to come in every day...lol....if someone need time off it usually isnt a problem however its off the clock...after 25 yrs. i know EXACTLY how long thing take to do...you just need to hire the right guys....

doug1980
06-07-2012, 03:11 PM
I don't own a business but I am the only LCO where I work. I get paid from start time until I'm out except an hour docked for lunch, whether I take it or not. I don't get paid for calls I get at home or that I make from home which sucks. I do have a statement for those that don't pay for drive time. If they are in your company truck and get into an accident you are liable so if you are liable they should be on the clock. Bet it's hard to find quality workers with business ethics like that.
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bodetsr
06-11-2012, 09:36 PM
It's good to read all of the replies. I happen to pay from the time we leave my shop until the time we return. It's only fair. And if we're really working hard that day, I'll keep the clock running through lunch. However, one of my fellow LCO's argued with me last week that he only pays his guys for the time that they are actually on the property because that's the only time they actually work. I'm glad to see the majority are like me and not only see the legal aspect of this, but the fair and moral aspect as well. It's definitely not worth losing a good employee over trying to save 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there......