why does everyone think everybody started as scrubs

[THEgr8ONE]

as i read posts on this forum. it seems that alot of experts think that every one started as scrubs or the same way. and alot of you think that is the right way and thats that.i think you are wrong. whats wrong with coming up with a buissness plan and and going to school (like maybee college) for lets say maybee a goodone would be buisness. then go and get some financing and start a buisness the wright way. not getting your old mans mtd out of the shed and through it in the trunk and call yourself a expert.thats why people think low of lawn maintenance companys because 80 percent of these guys are fly by night and thats it.do you think that a person opening up a store at the mall went to anouther store bought 200$ worth of merchandise and put it in his store to sell and when he did sell it used the 20$he made to buy more stuff.the point is if you are in the biz start right get financing make a plan market yourself and buy the right tools or you will fail.thats a fact 90% of the people wont be doing this in a year or 2.so if you are going into buisness why dont you go into it the right way. do you think the guy that owns burger king didn't have a buisness plan or financing

[Guido]

The great one! I hate calling you that, don't you have a real name? But anyway, I think your right, that is the ideal way to do it, its just that everybody doesn't have that idea, or maybe isn't smart enough, or maybe doesn't have the credit, or maybe is to young and foolish still. I'll tell you what, before I joined the air force I did some landscaping and lawn care with my grandfathers &quot;ma and pa type&quot; construction and all around outdoor service kinda buisiness. Now I myself would never want to run a shop like he did, the ethics were there, he just didn't have the proffesionalism that is needed today, unlike the good ole' days when he was coming up, ya know. I have a business plan about 70% completed. My main stream biz will be small construction, hauling and concrete work. I have also planned branches to expand into grounds maintenace, pesticide and fertilizer app's, hydroseeding, etc. I also have a savings plan in action (for the past 5 years) and will go on for another 18 to be able to sart &quot;fresh&quot; with brand new equipment, and exatly want I want. But, its easy because I have another 18 years before I retire from the service to plan this out. Some people may have lost their job or something that caused them to earn a living. And I salute somebody who can come up from being a scrub and educate themselves in the business and be succesful some day. You have to lloka t both perspectives, but your right, oh Great one! That is the ideal plan for starting up!!<p><p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/&quot;&gt;&quot;Guido&quot;&lt;/a&gt;<br>David M. Famiglietti<p>Okay, I'm back and not done, I forgot to make one very good point. Just because your a business man and you can afford to have the biggest best equipment DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL SUCCEED!!! I've seen spoiled little $hit heads laugh at me pushing my grandfathers old ancient scag as they drove by with their brand new turf tigers in their brand new trailer, with their shiney new truck. Do yuo know where I met them 3 months down the road? I had called about an ad in the paper for a turf tiger almost brand new, for an unbelievebly low price. You put 2 + 2 together!! They just didn't have it!<p>I think you need a balance of business skills and job skills to really, really succeed. No matter how good you are, will you know how to handle all that money your bringing in?? Do you know how to market when you need to? Do you know anything about investing? You need to have knowledge in both areas if you expect to expand!!<p>Okay I'm done for now I guess!<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: guido

[Marquis Lawn]

I'm 25 and about to graduate from business school here in Dallas in December. I had planned to go work for a bank or brokerage after that, but the funniest thing happened to me last year...I bought a lawn care biz. Small time, only 30 big residentials right now. I planned on working it only until December when I could get a &quot;real job&quot;, but now I'm having second thoughts. I seem to like the lawn biz. I work 3 days a week right now, get time off when I need it, and get paid pretty darn good I think for the amount of time I work. Now I have a big decision to make here in the next couple of months-- go full-time, or get out and head for the air conditioned bank world? It takes a lot of capital, planning, and work to make it. People think I'm crazy to even consider it, but you guys make me think it's possible to make a decent living and not &quot;sell my soul to the enterprise.&quot; I like getting time to spend with my wife and friends, and working outside feels good-- though damn hot here in TX! I know everyone here is a little biased, but what do you guys think about it?

[osc]

You see gr8one, there are many ways to many things. I have a college degree myself, just for the record. I believe in what you are saying about a business plan. I'll add setting some goals to say it in another way. <br>I remember you're previous posts and how you like to broadly brush over everyone who meets certain criteria and call them a scrub. And maybe they are. I guess some of us are businessmen and some are definitely not.<br>However, I've seen a number of &quot;scrubs&quot; in different industries who have grown into mammoth sized operations. They didn't stay scrubs for long because they were businessmen.<br>My definition of a scrub is someone who doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't want to know, ever. The mower in the trunk is not where he started but the way he is and wants to stay.<br>What about the flipside of this coin, the guy who is so preoccupied with the newest equipment and looking good infront of the public yet is barely paying his bills and really has no sales ability and no customer base. He over-extended himself without having a clue about what he was doing. I am just as unimpressed with this guy.

[Toroguy]

gr8One,<br>Notice on the Who Where post started by Eric. The updates on what people started with are all very similar.<p>Going to school for an education will in no way harm your future.<p>I dont follow your analogy about the shop owner buying the $200 merchandise to sell for $20 profit?<p>90% wont be doing this in two years? Please quote a industry source.<p>I dont feel there is a right way or a wrong way to start a business. I didnt start with a business plan or financing. What would you finance, equipment without any customers? How do you plan to make payments while you establish a customer base, and pay student loans?<p>The guy who owns Burger King...I believe that Burger King is a publicly held corporation. Money for BK's expansion was funded through an IPO. Which makes the BK guy a shareholder, and he reports to a Board of Directors, which represent the other shareholders interests.<p>Guido's method is ideal, he has a vision and 18 years to accomplish his financial goals, plus a pension to keep things afloat if times are a rocky. <p>I think &quot;scrubs&quot; are just like sports rookies. Some will be stars, while others will be on the sidelines.<p>

[Alan]

Gr8one,, or however you spell that catchy nickname,, I'm assuming you went to college and got all so well educated. But it must not have taken too well, judging from your eloquent post. I sure hope you know how to write a proposal or contract that is more intelligible than your post. Having an education and a grand plan doesn't guarantee you much of anything.

[Grasscape Inc]

Hard (very) work, and doing a superb job!!!<br>THe rest is icing

[KirbysLawn]

Hey Gr8one, I had to edit you post SOME!<p>As I read posts on this forum, it seems that a lot of experts think that every one started as scrubs or the same way. A lot of you think that is the right way and that's, that. I think you are wrong. What's wrong with coming up with a business plan, and going to school (like maybe college), for lets say maybe a good one would be business. Then go and get some financing and start a business the right way. Not getting your old mans MTD out of the shed and throwing it in the trunk and call yourself an expert. That's why people think low of lawn maintenance companies, because 80 percent of these guys are fly by night and that's it. Do you think that a person opening up a store at the mall went to another store bought 200$ worth of merchandise and put it in his store to sell and when he did sell it used the 20$ he made to buy more stuff? The point is if you are in the biz start right get financing, make a plan, market yourself, and buy the right tools or you will fail, that's a fact. 90% of the people won't be doing this in a year or 2, so if you are going into business why don't you go into it the right way? Do you think the guy that owns Burger King didn't have a business plan or financing?<p>I edited your statement because of the difficulty I had reading it due to the multitude of grammar and spelling errors! I would suggest when typing a statement recommending people go to college, you try your best to use at least 4th grade grammar and a spell checker. I just don't understand why some folks can't use the shift key and capitalize some letters, makes for much easier reading. As for me, I graduated high school and no college. I think the whole &quot;everybody started as a scrub&quot; was a direct result from your first post where you made a very BROAD statement about part time people and went further by naming police, and firefighters as scrubs. Your first post statement would place almost everyone as a scrub, the second post was much better. It made since, and, from your second post I would not be a scrub and neither would many others here.<p>Ray<p><p>----------<br>Ray Kirby - Kirby's Cuttin' Edge Lawn Maintenance<br>Home Page (http://www.kirbycuttin.com), My Truck (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=681893&a=4967153), Lawn Photos (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=681893&a=4967155)<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: KirbysLawn

[Charles]

Its spelled &quot;College&quot; Ray. Damn don't think anyone one hear has spellcheck. LOL hahahaha

[Eric ELM]

It is spelled HERE Charles, I agree, we all make mistakes, me included.<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.prodigy.net/eric.erickson/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[lawrence stone]

PLEASE Eric speak for yourself.<p>Here is a spell checker for edit boxes that's<br>freeware. I have not installed my copy yet<br>since I am the original great one.<p>Go get it boys:<p>http://www.quinion.com/mqa/spell.htm<p>

[kenneybros]

ya and he misspelled &quot;sense&quot; and &quot;your&quot;! Lol dont worry im kidding!

[Barkleymut]

Thank you Stone. This may be the most valuable tool many of you will ever own. I don't need the spell checker since I was an editor in a past life. But if some of you print contracts that are anything like your posts then I find it hard to believe that you have one commercial customer. Look and act professional at all times (even while surfing Lawnsite).

[AB Lawn Care]

Marquis Lawn-Your right i'm biased.I love my job.I think you will have to make a choice!The thing I like most about this business is I call the shots you will still have a boss only this time you will have 30+ bosses.But the good thing is you can tell those bosses to hit the road!!!!Fresh air.Fun machines.The list goes on!You will have to choose!Don't just flip a coin,think about it for awhile.Maby continue for a year with the lawn care and then choose!The nice thing about your lawn care business is you can allways quit that and look for a good office job!Hope this helps!<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[Eric ELM]

I don't feel that everyone starting out was a scrub, but we all started out at the bottom unless the business was passed down to you. What ammazes me is, we have 1115 members, but only about 100 have equipment listed on the WWW forum. What does the other 1000 members use to mow with? They could at least put down what brand sissors they use. :)<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.prodigy.net/eric.erickson/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[steveair]

Hello,<p>I haven't even read the previous posts fully yet, but I got the jist of them.<p>Here's my comment on 'starting out' as a 'scrub'<p>How the hell else can you start out any other way these days!<p>To me, this whole business is becoming way to complicated. Between insurance, accountants, taxes, new equipment, new computer programs, new this, new that, whatever, its not just a matter of 'starting' anymore. <p>I have been working part time on my business and all I have to say is this....<p>I JUST WANT TO WORK!<p>However, you know how hard that is these days.<p>50 years ago, you just about could have a lawnmower, a truck, and a bank account to deposit you checks in, and you were in business. <p>Not these days.<p>Now, its neverending. I just want to do what I do best, and thats landscaping.<p>I love doing construction. I love building walls, planting trees, mowing grass, whatever.<p>The problem is, I can't because I'm too worried about having a &quot;workman's&quot; comp claim, a insurance problem, a tax problem, or any kind of problem.<p>The business is SOOOOO complicated these days. <p>What ever happened to &quot;I mowed your grass, heres my bill&quot;, and then &quot;thank you&quot;<p>With all these &quot;sue&quot; happy people, you can't just work these days. <p>So, I say this.<p>If working hard, doing a good job, and getting a pay check for doing what you like to do is being a scrub, then THAT I AM.<p>I hate the 'system' and what it has come to these days. <p>Soon, only the &quot;wealthy, spoiled brats&quot; will be able to start in this business because they will be the only people who have there 'daddy's' help and there 'daddy's' insurance company, and there 'daddy's accountant' to help them get started. <p>For everyone else, we will just have to live with the term &quot;scrub&quot;, at least untill the day when we can be &quot;daddy&quot; and have our own &quot;spoiled, brat&quot; son to give our money to and have him do EVERYTHING the way 'society' wants him too. <p>

[Lawnworks]

Hey Gr8one. I hope your name refers to Wayne Gretzky instead of yourself because arrogant people make me sick. I think it is fine for someone to start out as a scrub, but being a scrub should only be a stage and not a lifestyle. Sometimes the scrubs are not stupid and know their finacial limitations. Another thing, being in the lawn maintanence business does not require a college education. However, I do think that a college education would be very helpful when landscaping. I am 17 and currently own a lawn care setup, but I plan to go to college and major in accounting and minor in landscaping.I think a plan is needed, but a college education is not required.<p>Just my opinion,<br>Rick Wallace<br>LawnWorks

[Charles]

It's &quot;amazes&quot; Eric. I think lol. Pay back time. I was including myself. But there is a difference in just getting in a hurry and misspelling something. And just not knowing how to spell.

[Eric ELM]

Charles, Opps, you got me on that one. I know what you mean on the spelling thing. I guess I need to proof read my posts before I submit them. As I said before, all these post haven't helped my spelling much, but my grammar sure did get more better. LOL :)<br> <p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.prodigy.net/eric.erickson/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[slingshot]

thanks kirmit i mean kirby. Why does this bother you are you a teacher or somthing.If all you can say about the guy is he spelled somthing wrong or did not use a period id say he hit a nerve with you.I wouldnt let someones grammer get to me.Ihave to many outher things on my mind

[KirbysLawn]

Slingshot, my point is, it's very hard to read and understand the post when there are so many mistakes and we have to continually stop and figure out what words like &quot;outher or through(should be throw) mean! <p>This especially true when the person misspelling words like maybe, business, or right is suggesting we go to college! No, I'm not a teacher, just a paramedic and LMO owner. As stated earlier, I hope their (or is it there?) contracts are not written like this.<p>Ray

[Guido]

Man, I hate to get into this spelling and grammer crap, but I will make a suggestion(that even I should be doing). You can Word or Word Perfect or whatever you use minimized at the bottom toolbar on the screen and switch back and forth when posting. If you write your post in word, you'll have the spelling and grammer check, then just cut and paste it here. Just an idea, It's something I've been meaning to do.<br><p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/&quot;&gt;&quot;Guido&quot;&lt;/a&gt;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[HOMER]

u Gize maka mee laff like cracy. dont nobody need to now how two rite to cut a littl gracc* thay dont need ta no how splell ether= i jus git up in tha mournin an chunk da little mower in da trunk and go louk for da yard day needz cuttin # bin duin it this wey for 27 years now.<p>I've already responded to this &quot;scrub&quot; thing one time. My last post was rather long and wordy. I'll attempt to make this one a little shorter and I hope I don't spell something incorrectly.<p>Person goes in Bank for job. He starts as teller, 5 years later.........loan officer! He started as a bank scrub!<p>Person goes in grocery store for a job, he starts as bagger, 5 years later.........he's still bagging. He started as a bagger scrub and continues to be the scrub that he is. <p>The building in which these 2 beginners went into doesn't make a hill of beans. If the first person went into the grocery store he would be the manager in 5 years.<p>The difference in people, why some succeed and some don't really has nothing to do with their education, although it helps if the person has the desire to be educated. I believe it has to do with your persons outlook on life, his personality, and desire to make it against all odds. If the bagger had higher goals in life and a strong inner need to do better, he would have used the experience as a bagger to move him to the next level, a stock boy perhaps. At any level if he were doing his best to get to the next one he would have succeeded and not stayed a scrub bagger. He didn't have what it took to become the manager, no self worth, infeority complex maybe, low self esteem, or just plain lazy. People also tend to be content when they find their &quot;comfort zone&quot;. The bank boy obviously had what it took to advance in life and in another 5 years he might go out and start his own finance Company and charge lawn scrubs 19 to 30% interest on their equipment loans. <p>Where you start in life and where you end up comes from within and thats all there is to it. When you see the next trunk mounted mower, don't judge the way this guy is starting out because he may have no other choice. Give him a couple of seasons and then see where he is at and you will know then if you should be looking over your shoulder. If he has a trailer and a commercial mower then you know beyond a shadow of a doubt he has enough intelligence to advance to the higher levels, if he still uses his trunk mounted mower then oh well.........he'll never get any bigger. If the true desire was there and the personal characteristics of this person were such that he knew he had to start somewhere and the trunk was the starting point, he'll make it to higher levels in no time. If they aren't there he'll wear out his back loading the trunk and in no time he won't be seen again.<p>There are those that will succeed no matter what obstacles are put before them, there are those that have no desire to succeed. It is simply personal preference. You'll always have scrubs to contend with, just take the yard away from them on your way to that 75th account. They won't care if you get it!<p>Just my $10.00 worth.<p>Homer

[little green guy]

Hey gr8one is the only reason you come here to post about scrubs? I havn't seen you post on to many things that are acually benifical to everyone on this forum. Please stop wasting space with you piontless topics that have been discussed several times already. If you realy hate scrubs that much how about educating them so they won't be scrubs anymore.<p>Also I don't think that there are any scrubs on this forum because if you care enough to find this site and use it you are not a scrub.

[SKDCO]

Look, if you/they are &quot;scrubs&quot;who really cares! Just look out for yourself and your business. Simply do the best job you can do and your reputation/performance will follow you! If you are friends with your competitors great, if not, great. I found this site by accident and have found it to be very informative,interesting and helpful.I have made some post regarding this subject previously, but don't you think this horse is getting a little tired?

[thelawnguy]

Some of you guys take things too seriously.<p>I recall when the scrub list was first published elsewhere, it was<br>specifically tailored to summarize one particular individuals business<br>profile. All the here and there comments didnt seem like much until they<br>were all tallied into one master list (see Stone thread). Even the word &quot;scrub&quot;<br>was used originally to describe this one over-inflated individual.<p>So, im the spirit of the scrub list, you MAY be a scrub if...<p>21. Your truck doubles in value with a full tank of fuel.<p>22. Your mower doubles as a stump grinder.<p>23. Your work hours are 7pm-10pm mon-fri, 7-7 sat-sun, all day holidays, other<br>hours by appt.<p>24. Your idea of home improvement project is painting the wheel chocks<br>on your trailer.<p>25. Tenth grade high school was the best five years of your life.<p>26. You think the stock market has a fence around it.<p>27. You take a load to the dump and return with more than you left with.<p>28. You wonder how gas stations keep their restrooms so clean.<p>29. Your wifes day job requres her to wear an orange vest.<p>30. Your equipment trailer has &quot;camper&quot; plates on it.<p>More to come?<p>Bill

[Toroguy]

I like the stock market one!

[MLS]

Homer I'm still laughing. I bet it took longer to type that first paragraph than all the others combined.

[Guido]

bill, those are the best ones I heard yet. Theres a couple guys here that have those mowers/stumpgrinders!!!<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/&quot;&gt;&quot;Guido&quot;&lt;/a&gt;<br>David M. Famiglietti