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View Full Version : The truth about the time master


beachtownlawnservice
04-02-2012, 03:06 PM
Ok. I bought a time master a few weeks ago. I thought it would be a good investment- time saver for my smaller residential yards. At first I really liked it, and on flat, weed free, weekly maintains yards it does a decent job. But it's not to be used as a daily commercial unit. I already see some signs of wear. One of the front wheels is already cracked and wobbling. On yards with any length it is seriously underpowered, it tends to scalp easily if the terrain is uneven or bumpy. The side discharge attachment tends to fall off easily, and it doesn't bag all that well. Now this is a decent mower but it is not going to hold up to what we put it through, we maintain 20-25 residential yards a day, plus some large apartments, condos, and H.O.A'S. I new when buying this unit it was not a commercial machine but I would Be happy if would hold up for at least a year. We replace most mowers yearly due to wear. But it is clear it will not last that long, and with its performance I am forced to pull it off line. Now don't get me wrong this will be a great machine for my own personal lawn, and I believe it will last several years , but its not for commercial use. This is not a slam on toro products, we run several commercial toro units and I am very happy with them. But the time master is strictialy a homeowner unit.

Grass Shark
04-02-2012, 04:00 PM
If you do 25 lawns a day, 125 lawns a week, and have other commercial units what gave you the bright idea to waste money on a low line homeowner machine and expect anything different from it? Say you are really doing 125 lawns a week @ $33 avg thats over $4000 wk gross, why did you buy a $2000 lawnmower. Then you make a post about it on here, if you would have read other threads you would have found a million about people wanting to start out with that mower. i'm confused

GMLC
04-02-2012, 04:24 PM
I'm not surprised one bit. A home owner unit is only made to mow a couple hours a week. A commercial unit will last you many years.
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Richard Martin
04-02-2012, 04:29 PM
If you do 25 lawns a day, 125 lawns a week, and have other commercial units what gave you the bright idea to waste money on a low line homeowner machine and expect anything different from it? Say you are really doing 125 lawns a week @ $33 avg thats over $4000 wk gross, why did you buy a $2000 lawnmower. Then you make a post about it on here, if you would have read other threads you would have found a million about people wanting to start out with that mower. i'm confused

It's actually about $1,000. That so many people are interested in a thousand dollar 30 inch mower is a sign of the economy. Most, if not all, of these guys are aware that you can get a commercial 32" mower for 3 times the price. But money is hard to come by in a lot of areas. It has been well documented here at Lawnsite, that there are people in literally every city in the land, that will cut your throat to take your job.

I myself have tried to get potential customers to pay more money. I've tried raising my bid prices by a mere $5. I get nothing. When I lived in MD I was paying for 3 commercial mowers at one time. I was also paying for a new car for my wife. I could never do that now. The money is just not there.

We still continue to loose blue collar jobs at an alarming rate. And these are the types of people that would start a lawn service and cut your throat because 10 dollars an hour is better than nothing. It doesn't matter that their Harry Homeowner equipment will wear out quick. These people have families to feed and bills to pay now. They're hoping for something to get better tomorrow but for today, cutting grass is better than nothing.

Lawn servicing rode the wave of prosperity throughout the late 90's and 2,000's just like everything else did. People were flush with cash from their big real estate kill or their cash out refinance. They could afford to hire a lawn guy and pay him good money. I saw it happen. I had customers that were raising their own prices. But a fool and their money seen go separate ways. And the money tide has gone out to sea, never to return.

beachtownlawnservice
04-02-2012, 04:32 PM
we mow 20-25 the days off from the fire dept. the bright idea was to save time and money on a lighter mower with a larger deck at a cheaper price ( it was $999.).if it would hold up for a year i would buy 3 more . and that was my intention . its all about time and money. the less time we can spend on a yard, the more yards we could do in a day, is the less pay out X 3 guys at the end of the week. the cheaper the mower = less equipment cost, if the mower would have held up at least 1 year, it would have worked out great for us.. we replace or toro 21's yearly. you never know about a product until you try it. we run home depot, echo back pack blowers and they work great, they are actually holding up better than our stihls, and they are half the price of the stihls. I dont care about running the best commercial units etc. its all about keeping overhead down. the timemaster is a decent unit it just wont hold up to what we will put it through. we are gonna stick with the toro 21's

kennc38
04-02-2012, 04:33 PM
Ok. I bought a time master a few weeks ago. I thought it would be a good investment- time saver for my smaller residential yards. At first I really liked it, and on flat, weed free, weekly maintains yards it does a decent job. But it's not to be used as a daily commercial unit. I already see some signs of wear. One of the front wheels is already cracked and wobbling. On yards with any length it is seriously underpowered, it tends to scalp easily if the terrain is uneven or bumpy. The side discharge attachment tends to fall off easily, and it doesn't bag all that well. Now this is a decent mower but it is not going to hold up to what we put it through, we maintain 20-25 residential yards a day, plus some large apartments, condos, and H.O.A'S. I new when buying this unit it was not a commercial machine but I would Be happy if would hold up for at least a year. We replace most mowers yearly due to wear. But it is clear it will not last that long, and with its performance I am forced to pull it off line. Now don't get me wrong this will be a great machine for my own personal lawn, and I believe it will last several years , but its not for commercial use. This is not a slam on toro products, we run several commercial toro units and I am very happy with them. But the time master is strictialy a homeowner unit.

It wasn't designed nor is it advertised as a commercial mower, so why would expect it to perform like one? Gotta love reviews that slam residential products when they don't perform like commercial ones...:hammerhead:

beachtownlawnservice
04-02-2012, 05:04 PM
It's not a slam on the unit. It was a review on why this unit won't work for me. It is a lesson learned with many more to come I'm sure. What I don't understand is why so many negative slams on my review? I understood when buying it that it is a residential unit I just wanted 1year out of it. It didn't' work out that way . Oh well it will serve my lawn well. Live and learn. But 1 question for the negative Nancy's. It been raining here sense 7:30 am so I'm on a rain day. Why are y'all on here slamming me on here instend of mowing. I wish I had time to sit around on the computer in the middle of the day and be a dick to someone admitting to a mistake.

hammmerhead
04-02-2012, 05:32 PM
It's not a slam on the unit. It was a review on why this unit won't work for me. It is a lesson learned with many more to come I'm sure. What I don't understand is why so many negative slams on my review? I understood when buying it that it is a residential unit I just wanted 1year out of it. It didn't' work out that way . Oh well it will serve my lawn well. Live and learn. But 1 question for the negative Nancy's. It been raining here sense 7:30 am so I'm on a rain day. Why are y'all on here slamming me on here instend of mowing. I wish I had time to sit around on the computer in the middle of the day and be a dick to someone admitting to a mistake.


From from the numbers you provided, you're mowing 400-500 yards per month even if you take the weekends off. Thats a lot of friggin yards, even if they are postage stamp sized, not to mention your HOA's, Apartments and Condo's. You obviously need a Commercial compact mower. Any ideas what you are going to look at?

beachtownlawnservice
04-02-2012, 05:50 PM
were just gonna stick with with the commercial toro 21's. oh well .i thought it work wont be my first or last mistake

THEGOLDPRO
04-02-2012, 05:54 PM
I told everyone when i first saw it it was a piece of homeowner junk but noooooo one believed me.

beachtownlawnservice
04-02-2012, 05:58 PM
And i dont have that many yards. i work a 24-48 schedule at the fire department. so we only mow the days im off. we do maintain 20-25 yards a day. but some are bi-weekly accounts, so they are not on my weekly list. and we have 2 days of full commercials, condos, hoa's, apts, animal shelter etc. and we are also a sub-contractor for many of our neighboring city's for nuisance abatement yards and board ups. so they get thrown in the mix all the time also.

Weekend cut easymoney
04-02-2012, 08:19 PM
We mowed 20-25 each day for several years with a troy built...relatively little maintenace...blades, belts, replaced handles every 6 months....our first scag in 94 made things a lot easier though-
Until you use a PRO-mower, its hard to know what you are missing--go get a 36 inch/adjustable deck and it will make your life so much easier-cut quality/longevity of the equipment--be prepared for customers to be upset for size of mower though-

yardguy28
04-02-2012, 08:31 PM
bottom line is, it's a homeowner mower designed for homeowner use. which is once a week for let's say a couple of hours.

why when you do this for a living you would buy anything but commercial grade is beyond me. it will never last unless it's commercial grade and will end up costing you more money than if you spend the money upfront for commercial grade.

a thousand huh. commercial 21's are only $1500. and although they are 9" smaller they will last a hell of a lot longer. I personally got a steal in my toro commercial 21. paid $500 for a unit in the box the dealer was looking to dump to make room for the newer stuff.

jiggz
04-02-2012, 10:59 PM
I dont know why everyone is busting this guys balls.. he knew it wasnt a commercial machine going into it, he was expecting it to last a year, not a few cuts..Although buying a deck that big with a engine that small is a stupid move HAHA..But sometimes it works for what you want it to do.. hell my best push mower was a residential Murry select 22.. ran all day long for years untill i ran it over.. and it was a 1/3 of the weight of my commercial push mowers

mojokat
04-03-2012, 02:24 AM
I bought the Timemaster for homeowner use, 15k sq.ft. and it couldn't hack that either.

I took it back.

lawnboy dan
04-03-2012, 07:50 AM
finally! this pos is exposed for what it is and mabey some will wise up and not buy it.

chipk1
04-03-2012, 08:50 AM
There is only one proper response to this thread .... Duh!

ShooterK2
04-03-2012, 09:31 AM
There have been several pieces of equipment rated as "homeowner" grade that folks use daily and they live a long life and work fine. Most folks go off of others' reviews, just like I did when I bought my Honda HRX 217 three years ago. It's a "homeowner" model, and still runs just like new today. Not a problem yet.

A lot of people will just look at the rating of something and then pass it off as junk, when actually, it can give many years of use. I always rely on reviews from others as a guide to know what actually will work for me and what won't.

This Toro is a new machine, and the OP has been one of the guinea pigs for the rest of us to learn from, and, in my opinion, he deserves more credit than he is getting here.

BestImpressions99
04-03-2012, 01:04 PM
If I'm correct, aren't these sold at box stores, etc?

yardguy28
04-03-2012, 09:37 PM
everyone's intitled to there own opinion I guess.

personally if I can't find it at my dealer and it isn't commercial I'm not buying it. not for my business anyway.

Valk
04-04-2012, 07:14 PM
Toro Dealers also sell non-commercial homeowner units...right?

1whitetail
04-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Toro Dealers also sell non-commercial homeowner units...right?

The dealers in my area do.

yardguy28
04-04-2012, 09:06 PM
Toro Dealers also sell non-commercial homeowner units...right?

The dealers in my area do.

which is why I said if it isn't commercial.

rmland
04-05-2012, 03:35 PM
I bought this mower for my wife. She handles the old PETA clients. I was surprised when setting it up. It was much stronger than I thought it would be. She love the machine for the little yards that will not even allow a 32 to fit. Will it hold up? I think as long as none of the boys get a hold of it things will be fine. It does struggle in tall wet grass, but once dry is fine. Just my little experience. I don't care what the cost keeping the gals happy is worth every cent

CutterCutter
04-05-2012, 06:22 PM
I had every intention of buying one of these until I got my hands on one. It's heavy. Way too heavy to be muscling around any yard.

IMO it's filling a niche that doesn't exist. It's too big, clumsy and heavy to use on any property with any kind of slope or obstructions, ie: beds, trees, etc. If you have a relatively level yard with any size to it you're much better off with some kind of a riding lawn tractor. I'm speaking from the viewpoint of a homeowner that's going to do their own work.

I personally have a 21" commercial lawnboy which cost $800 seven years ago. I use it on all of my smaller properties. It will do things on a difficult yard that the TTM couldn't do in a thousand years. Toro might sell a few of these but I think they've laid a dud. The problems I've mentioned are probably why a similar design wasn't built by another manufacturer twenty years ago.

Exact Rototilling
04-05-2012, 07:38 PM
I bought this mower for my wife. She handles the old PETA clients. I was surprised when setting it up. It was much stronger than I thought it would be. She love the machine for the little yards that will not even allow a 32 to fit. Will it hold up? I think as long as none of the boys get a hold of it things will be fine. It does struggle in tall wet grass, but once dry is fine. Just my little experience. I don't care what the cost keeping the gals happy is worth every cent

I have real mixed feeling about this mower. I'm trying to makes sense out of it. I already a Ybravo 25 and I own a BOP Quickie 32. My wife struggles with both those.mowers. maybe she won't struggle with.the Toro 30....?

Maybe I.should forget about buying this mower.and.tell my wife.to get a regular job.to pay wages for helper who can run what I.already own....?


Being a glutton for punishment I'll probably buy the electric start version for her and see.what.happens. :hammerhead:
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1whitetail
04-05-2012, 07:58 PM
I have real mixed feeling about this mower. I'm trying to makes sense out of it. I already a Ybravo 25 and I own a BOP Quickie 32. My wife struggles with both those.mowers. maybe she won't struggle with.the Toro 30....?

Maybe I.should forget about buying this mower.and.tell my wife.to get a regular job.to pay wages for helper who can run what I.already own....?


Being a glutton for punishment I'll probably buy the electric start version for her and see.what.happens. :hammerhead:
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If your wife can't handle the Ybravo 25 I doubt she will be able to handle a Timemaster 30. I would get her a 21" Toro or Honda.

lawnboy dan
04-05-2012, 08:00 PM
no way a woman is going to be able to muscle this thing around .

Patriot Services
04-05-2012, 08:07 PM
I have real mixed feeling about this mower. I'm trying to makes sense out of it. I already a Ybravo 25 and I own a BOP Quickie 32. My wife struggles with both those.mowers. maybe she won't struggle with.the Toro 30....?

Maybe I.should forget about buying this mower.and.tell my wife.to get a regular job.to pay wages for helper who can run what I.already own....?


Being a glutton for punishment I'll probably buy the electric start version for her and see.what.happens. :hammerhead:
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Get her an all electric mower, nothing lighter than that. What happened to her being Queen of the flowerbeds?:usflag:

Exact Rototilling
04-05-2012, 08:09 PM
no way a woman is going to be able to muscle this thing around .

The video of the small stature women leads the world to belive otherwise. 21" mowers are timewasters IMO unless the slope or swell is so extreme a Ybravo 25 won't work.

The Ybravo 25 is a time.waster unless I can't.get by BOP.Quickie 32 to work in.a spot.or.swell. Or it is so.blasted wet I can't mow.with.my Q32.

Fwiw.... despite all the damp.grass hatred towards BOP mowers the 32 can push in the rain to a.point with the right blades. See the 99-127 thread.
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Exact Rototilling
04-05-2012, 08:14 PM
Get her an all electric mower, nothing lighter than that. What happened to her being Queen of the flowerbeds?:usflag:

:laugh:

Super wet here snow etc.....no call.for her bed.weeding as of yet...:rolleyes:
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Chilehead
04-05-2012, 08:50 PM
I would have to agree with those that say an LCO should use a commercial machine. The Timecutter costs $1000.00, right? Well, for $1200.00 you can find yourself a used Ferris Hydrocut or the SnapperPro equivalent. It's 32", and will do just fine for years to come.

Exact Rototilling
04-05-2012, 09:25 PM
The problem with the WB 32 and 36 is the side catcher issue. So what happens is if I'm stuck bagging in tight areas you have to contend with a side catcher or I have to just use a slower smaller mower.

A 28" to 30" rear bagger makes a ton of sense. Just needs to be a commercial mower not.weigh a ton.
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TuffWork
04-05-2012, 09:28 PM
I would have to agree with those that say an LCO should use a commercial machine. The Timecutter costs $1000.00, right? Well, for $1200.00 you can find yourself a used Ferris Hydrocut or the SnapperPro equivalent. It's 32", and will do just fine for years to come.

Here's the thing you guys are missing when you say things like that. I HAVE TO BAG EVERYTHING. I don't want a mower with a goofy bag coming off the side either. I've had my time master for a couple of weeks. I like it so far, and we do about 20 yards a day as well. I have 20 yards to do tomorrow and my Walker broke the middle gear box on the last yard today. :hammerhead: So guess who is really happy he bought a timemaster! I would have a really hard time getting by with just a 21 tomorrow. As for it being underpowered: try turning up the RPM's a little, it helps dramatically.

I know it's not gonna hold up very well. But for $1000 I don't care.

TuffWork
04-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Also, my dealer said he thinks they will be coming out with a commercial version in the next year or so. When they do I'll buy it.

MJB
04-05-2012, 10:09 PM
What is a reasonable amount of hours one could expect to put on a residential mower like this per year ? 100 ...200 then replace it ? I was thinking about one because I would only use it 3 hrs per week for 27 weeks = 81 hours per year. I might get 2 years out of it just replacing the wheels etc.

Thats how much I hate walking I mostly use ztr's, but this would save time and money probably for me, when I needed to use one..

WHIPPLE5.7
04-05-2012, 11:02 PM
What is a reasonable amount of hours one could expect to put on a residential mower like this per year ? 100 ...200 then replace it ? I was thinking about one because I would only use it 3 hrs per week for 27 weeks = 81 hours per year. I might get 2 years out of it just replacing the wheels etc.

Thats how much I hate walking I mostly use ztr's, but this would save time and money probably for me, when I needed to use one..

I've seen homeonwer 21" mowers last well into the 750-1,000 hour range. This mower has many mixed reports. Some like it some hate. If it worked I would find it benificial but I'd like to try one for a day before making a decision.

rmland
04-06-2012, 07:51 AM
I have a quick 36 just sitting in the shop no one will touch that single hydro. that is a man killer, but my wife has no probblen with this toro, yes it is heavier than the honda but it looks like the wheel base is shorter and it really is no problem turning in tight spots. Again, it aint no scag

superdog1
04-06-2012, 08:20 AM
When I first started out, I ran a Cub Cadet RZT 50" unit. It was actually a great machine. While it is homeowner grade, it did a great job with the cut and the durability of the machine was good. It did have a 22HP Kawasaki on it and it just kept going and going. I had over 1000 hrs on it.

I am beginning to think that there may be some logic in buying a cheaper machine and trading it in when you get to say 800 hrs or so? Granted, the Cub I mentioned was almost $3000 new, so something tells me its quality was a little better than the $1000 Time Master in question?

Call me nuts or whatever, but I need another machine and I am seriously considering getting another Cub RZT. Before you ask, yes, I have commercial machines on my trailer, a 52" Scag Vride and 48" Exmark Viking hydro. I also run a little gear drive Craftsman Pro 33" walk behind for the tight spots and cutting areas with junk and thick grass.

mojokat
04-06-2012, 08:32 AM
All other considerations aside, keep in mind the deck on this thing plugs up in a few passes in virtually all conditions. Then it starts throwing chunks and grass biscuits everywhere unless you stop and clean the deck, then it won't start for a good 20 minutes.

NOT something I would want to be doing on someone elses lawn. Just my 2 cents.

Exact Rototilling
04-06-2012, 02:28 PM
All other considerations aside, keep in mind the deck on this thing plugs up in a few passes in virtually all conditions. Then it starts throwing chunks and grass biscuits everywhere unless you stop and clean the deck, then it won't start for a good 20 minutes.

NOT something I would want to be doing on someone elses lawn. Just my 2 cents.

This is my main concern with this mower. Reducing engine rpm helps in gooey conditions....but this mower is stuck at Max rpm. :hammerhead:

This same engine basic engine is on my lawn solutions aerator and has the 3 position throttle engine stop lever. I think the Toro needs this modification. And better blade options.
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smallstripesnc
04-06-2012, 10:04 PM
I purchased the timemaster about a month or so ago. I used it steady for two weeks (5 lawns a day 5 days a week ish) and kept having issues with the governor messing up. After three visits to the dealer (they attempted to fix the issue each time) and come to find out the governor gear shattered and the camshaft needed to be replaced as well.

Now its fixed but the deck does clog up very easily even when side discharging. Also a higher lift blade would be great along with a throttle control. There's a version of a Snapper 21' commercial that has the same engine but with a throttle control and a spin on oil filter.

I was using the timemaster as my main unit but on lawns that aren't maintained weekly it just doesn't do very well.

When the timemaster went down I got a Scag 36 inch belt drive and its much more reliable and the deck doesn't clog at all and people actually like the stripes of the scag much better.

Exact Rototilling
04-06-2012, 10:25 PM
I have a quick 36 just sitting in the shop no one will touch that single hydro. that is a man killer, but my wife has no probblen with this toro, yes it is heavier than the honda but it looks like the wheel base is shorter and it really is no problem turning in tight spots. Again, it aint no scag
Okay....great question for you. How is the cut quality of the Toro 30" vs the Quick 36....? Do you have the higher lift single notch blades for the Q36 or just the old style low lift deck cloggers?

How is the deck clogging issues between these 2 mowers?

Funny I always thought if I got out of the biz I'd sell off all the mowers except my old Q36 single. :rolleyes:
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exmarkman11
04-06-2012, 10:59 PM
I only get on lawnsite about once a week now, but I have seen 5,000 threads on the timemaster, most of which I dont waste my time reading. Toro Timemaster almost as great as bad boy mowers. Ha Ha

Busybee Lawns
04-07-2012, 01:05 AM
I bought a Tm and so far very pleased with it. I use it for my commercial and mainly mulch with. we all know spring is the time for dence green wet lush grass! I get buit up under my 721 grasshopper everday!and still I have to clean it everday, does this mean that this is not meant for commercial use? so yes grass gets build up under the time master deck and yes you have to clean it. this goes with all my mower! Its Spring! the grass is sticky! By the way the cut on the time master well give any commercial mower a run for the Money. that my two cents .

MJB
04-07-2012, 02:26 AM
I purchased the timemaster about a month or so ago. I used it steady for two weeks (5 lawns a day 5 days a week ish) and kept having issues with the governor messing up. After three visits to the dealer (they attempted to fix the issue each time) and come to find out the governor gear shattered and the camshaft needed to be replaced as well.

Now its fixed but the deck does clog up very easily even when side discharging. Also a higher lift blade would be great along with a throttle control. There's a version of a Snapper 21' commercial that has the same engine but with a throttle control and a spin on oil filter.

I was using the timemaster as my main unit but on lawns that aren't maintained weekly it just doesn't do very well.

When the timemaster went down I got a Scag 36 inch belt drive and its much more reliable and the deck doesn't clog at all and people actually like the stripes of the scag much better.

The blades on the timemaster are designed for mulching, dry grass. This mower should not be used for for heavy wet grass yet. But it should work great in the heat of summer when the grass slows down, and the mulching blades will perform their best mulching or bagging. I think people are trying to use it under to extreme circumstances we encounter every spring. I put high lifts on in the spring and side discharge most of the time. Mulching blades on my Exmarks will clog everything up in minutes, so everyone thinking of cutting wet grass will be dissapointed until they get different blades as Exact has been stating.

Exact Rototilling
04-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Was running errands in Spokane today dropped by a Toro dealer and measured the T30 blades. Basically 15-5/16" didn't pull off blade ...don't think salesman wanted wrench marks on bolts but I belive there are several blades with more lift that will.work with limited modification that can.be purchased off the shelf. The secondary timing holes will be easy.to center punch, line up and drill press.

Also bought stepped drill bits from.harbor freight to modify SCAG blade for my Ybravo 25 today.

:)
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yardguy28
04-08-2012, 01:28 PM
all that moding is nuts if you ask me.

I stick with what is recommended and available to buy for my equipment brands.

voids the warranty otherwise.

Exact Rototilling
04-08-2012, 04:37 PM
all that moding is nuts if you ask me.

I stick with what is recommended and available to buy for my equipment brands.

voids the warranty otherwise.

Ideally a commercial user or homeowner should not have.to chase down better blades.

It really is in the best interest of every mower manufacturer to not neglect finding the best possible blade deck combo especially for mowers made for commercial use.

Since the T30 made for "Larry lawnmower or for Cynthia as featured in the Toro video they don't need to mow early in the.morning or in the rain or have to contend with extra spring growth. They can always wait for near ideal mowing conditions.

Not concerned about warranty issues. I'm in this to tweak existing equipment on the market so I can be more productive.

I'm considering swapping out part ASAP on the Toro badged Briggs and install the same two position throttle that is on my lawn solutions aerator.

Premier Landscape
04-09-2014, 11:23 AM
Glad to see this thread got away from slamming on beachtown for simply sharing his experience to help others make an educated decision. Just goes to show that in most all cases in life "You get what you pay for"

AMW Landscaping
04-09-2014, 12:46 PM
Getting the tranny replaced on mine right now

Patriot Services
04-09-2014, 01:11 PM
So it would seem they got the kinks worked out on the commercial units. My Exmark dealer keeps two on the floor ready to sell all the time. They don't even carry commercial 21's anymore. No demand. I run smaller mowers 36-48 myself. It still seems too heavy with too skinny of tires for me to want be behind one all day.
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AMW Landscaping
04-09-2014, 01:15 PM
So it would seem they got the kinks worked out on the commercial units. My Exmark dealer keeps two on the floor ready to sell all the time. They don't even carry commercial 21's anymore. No demand. I run smaller mowers 36-48 myself. It still seems too heavy with too skinny of tires for me to want be behind one all day.
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Yea. The new ones have a new tranny and a few other upgrades. I can't believe how efficient these mowers are. They can fit through any gate no problem

2 Cycle
04-09-2014, 06:59 PM
Why are they only one speed? Wish they could tweak that

Dillonlandscaping
05-09-2014, 11:40 PM
I bough the electric start model from my dealer for 1,200.. I now that it was a mistake. right away the starter went out and it has trouble starting with the cord (even when hot). but beside that really couldn't say anything bad about.. its cut quality isn't the best compare to other homeowner units. 3 years.. used everyday.. signs of wear and tear are being more visible sticking drive, ect. trying to buy a metro 48 for 1500 its an 2010

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 12:16 AM
I bough the electric start model from my dealer for 1,200.. I now that it was a mistake. right away the starter went out and it has trouble starting with the cord (even when hot). but beside that really couldn't say anything bad about.. its cut quality isn't the best compare to other homeowner units. 3 years.. used everyday.. signs of wear and tear are being more visible sticking drive, ect. trying to buy a metro 48 for 1500 its an 2010

My electric starter went out as well...over a year ago. My new production TimeMaster starts much easier and has more grunt than then old one ever did...?

Not a big fan of the "hold to kill the engine" switch...on the new one.
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MJB
05-10-2014, 12:39 AM
Mine still starts on the first pull. My only complaint has been the personal pace drive system. It just doesnt grab right away, seems like you have to push it hard to get it going then it takes off . I have not been able to adjust it to where I am satisfied yet. Any suggestions.

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 12:44 AM
Mine still starts on the first pull. My only complaint has been the personal pace drive system. It just doesnt grab right away, seems like you have to push it hard to get it going then it takes off . I have not been able to adjust it to where I am satisfied yet. Any suggestions.

How old is yours? I'm thinking the earlier ones are more prone to being sluggish. It might just be the new factor but my recent new TimeMaster seems vastly more willing. Not a hill climber like my yBravo25 but more able...IMO.

Could be a lack of lubricant in the cable that controls the personal pace system...?
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MJB
05-10-2014, 01:47 AM
It's 1 of the early versions I think its close to 3 yrs old. I've only adjusted the cable and I oil it regularly. I'm wondering what the difference is between the old and newer version you have as far as the drive system goes ? I'm gonna tear into it tomorrow and try to get to be more responsive.

TPendagast
05-10-2014, 05:53 AM
I recall when these first came out.

ALOT of guys went out and bought the Timemasters instead of the commercial units.

Oh blah blah blab, I don't see any difference between the two except $1000, how smart am I for saving $1000….

and so it went, multiple posts about the wonders of the great machine.

BUT something hardly anyone realizes, FULLY 50% of the guys on here aren't REALLY commercial/professional operations.
They are hobbyists, enthusiasts, opportunists and wanna bes.
They have 15-30 customers, not 15-30 a day.

so they all make these posts, and, SOUND like full operations, so what happens is, someone reads real quick a bunch of these posts, because they are busy, they run a full time operation, they don't have time to "learn" who all these people are, they skim through topic after topic, yup, looks like a good idea….

The problem is, the 19 guys that bought time masters before him, aren't real pros.
That's the main issue with this site.
There's no filter or categories, it's like going on a dating site where all the chicks are 36-24-26 and 25 year old virgins with PHDs.
What they mean to say is they are post op transvestite former marines…but you know it's practically the same thing because, well after a few more weeks of testosterone suppressor, no one will be able to tell, except everyone who watches Jerry Springer…..


These are the same guys who will drop 30-50 grand on a pick up mull around town in, pulling their Home Depot Trailer, with a fisher price wind up lawn mower with the little plastic balls in the top bouncing around and call themselves "professional"

Yup, got to have a bad ass truck to haul all my "gear around in"

except you spend 6 hours a day mowing and 2 traveling.

so what really makes more sense?

Having a Denali HD that pulls your Timemaster and a 2000 lb trailer?

Or a Kia Sorento that pulls a 5000 lb trailer with a couple of commercial mowers on it?

Everyones argument is always "Well I can't legitimize the equipment because I don't have enough work yet"

But they always seem to legitimize saving $1000 on that lawn mower, but blowing a years salary on a pick up truck they don't need, because you know, the groceries on saturday might be really heavy.


Come to think of it, everyone seems to do this with leaf blowers and weed whackers.

FS 130s and BR 500s for grass work… no 'homeowner' crap for me!

a super star destroyer to chase a couple droids across the galaxy.
But no damn photos of them so ya know, your goose stepping employees could recognize them on site??

JFGLN
05-10-2014, 10:30 AM
How old is yours? I'm thinking the earlier ones are more prone to being sluggish. It might just be the new factor but my recent new TimeMaster seems vastly more willing. Not a hill climber like my yBravo25 but more able...IMO.

Could be a lack of lubricant in the cable that controls the personal pace system...?
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Curious what you mean by "more able".

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 10:39 AM
Re: Teds rant post...…:laugh: Yeah I never quite understood the new expensive truck with crap equipment.

Anyhow...with all the tranny troubles that have been talked about on Lawnsite about the commercial TurfMaster...and even when they do work they lack the power to climb hills with authority...I'm simply not going to blow that extra $ on one.
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PicturePerfectLawns
05-10-2014, 10:47 AM
Ok. I bought a time master a few weeks ago. I thought it would be a good investment- time saver for my smaller residential yards. At first I really liked it, and on flat, weed free, weekly maintains yards it does a decent job. But it's not to be used as a daily commercial unit. I already see some signs of wear. One of the front wheels is already cracked and wobbling. On yards with any length it is seriously underpowered, it tends to scalp easily if the terrain is uneven or bumpy. The side discharge attachment tends to fall off easily, and it doesn't bag all that well. Now this is a decent mower but it is not going to hold up to what we put it through, we maintain 20-25 residential yards a day, plus some large apartments, condos, and H.O.A'S. I new when buying this unit it was not a commercial machine but I would Be happy if would hold up for at least a year. We replace most mowers yearly due to wear. But it is clear it will not last that long, and with its performance I am forced to pull it off line. Now don't get me wrong this will be a great machine for my own personal lawn, and I believe it will last several years , but its not for commercial use. This is not a slam on toro products, we run several commercial toro units and I am very happy with them. But the time master is strictialy a homeowner unit.


Beachtown, not to bash on you, I simply understand that your not bashing the Toro Mowers, I understand your not bashing the Time Master, and I understand that you we're just leaving an honest review. I read in your post that you guys we're trying to save money. But as big as you are and as many lawns that you have, I do have one question. You mentioned you wanted a bigger machine that would save time, why didn't you look into the commercial model of the Time Master, or the brother as I call it, the Turf Master? I only do half the lawns you do, if that, about 60 a week to be exact, two HOA's now, and a large dental office property. I looked into both the Time Master and the Commercial 30" and after a quick glance I could see that the Time Master wasn't what I was looking for with a quick glance at the wheels, engine, etc. On a side note, the Commercial Turf Master is only $698.-$798. higher if you do the slightest bit of haggling and I can tell you I literally beat this machine. I've put it through 10-15" of Dallas Grass, I've hit rocks hard enough to break the shear pins, got it muddy and wet, and I can tell you the Turf Master is a tough machine. The height adjustment system is simple and easy, but also seems to be built to last a very long time. The wheels are built to last. The mower overall, I'm very pleased with and in just my honest opinion, if you want a "big" push mower, why not take the time to go demo a 30" Turf Master. :usflag:

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 10:50 AM
Curious what you mean by "more able".

The latest Time Master has more grab and go [personal Pace] than my original first release unit....even with the cable adjusted properly. I'm hoping some CLP lubricant will help it.

In some ways I'm considering just fixing a few issues on the original TimeMaster and sell it.

The newer one does clearly have more power. Also the higher vent bag helped with damp grass mowing yesterday.
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PicturePerfectLawns
05-10-2014, 10:54 AM
Re: Teds rant post...…:laugh: Yeah I never quite understood the new expensive truck with crap equipment.

Anyhow...with all the tranny troubles that have been talked about on Lawnsite about the commercial TurfMaster...and even when they do work they lack the power to climb hills with authority...I'm simply not going to blow that extra $ on one.
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Maybe I just haven't did my homework, but I haven't seen but a few post with tranny problems on the Turf Master. I've yet to have any issues with the Tranny on mine. In fact, sometimes I'm wondering if some are even adjusting the machines properly after break in, my Turf Master pulls through high grass, pulls me up hills, goes through front ditches, and will drive back up the embankments of the ditch without a hesitation. Is it the machine, the operator, or the maintenance? :weightlifter:

TPendagast
05-10-2014, 12:25 PM
Re: Teds rant post...…:laugh: Yeah I never quite understood the new expensive truck with crap equipment.

Anyhow...with all the tranny troubles that have been talked about on Lawnsite about the commercial TurfMaster...and even when they do work they lack the power to climb hills with authority...I'm simply not going to blow that extra $ on one.
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Not EVEN just a new expensive truck, but WAY more than they possibly need.

3/4 ton diesel to pull lawn mowers… a half ton v6 will pull a trailer load of grasshopper all day long.

"but if you are towing day in day out it will fall apart" no… you are towing 2 hours a day.

more concerned about being passed on the highway than having good tools for the job.
Also ALMOST as funny as a house getting built, every dumb ass needs a 1 ton 4 door to haul his tool belt to the job. They all show up to the job site and have to park SO close to the building you can't deliver materials, yet they will running packs of roofing up a ladder like a spider monkey…. but can't park a puddle jumper 1/4 of the size a block away and carry that tool belt?

"Im in construction, I NEED this truck for work"

Yet most of them won't buy a $34 hammer because it's too expensive.

do people open a new sandwich shop with a couple used microwaves?
"well I don't know how many customers I will have, so I can't justify anything more than these dirty microwaves"

How many sandwiches are you going to sell WITH those microwaves?


How many guys have lost customers because they showed up to a property in a "little truck" to mow the lawn? OR an "old truck"

How many guys send their employees out to mow in a 1 ton diesel chipped with twin turbos and dual exhaust?
None, right?

The Issue is the guys that do that (super truck, POS machines) aren't committed… they think well I can justify the truck because I "need" it for work, but if lawn mowing doesn't work out for me, I haven't lost a lot on the mower…..

Can't they just buy a damn truck and go away, instead of coming around to piss in our punch bowl, to make an argument with their wife about a new truck easier to win?

MJB
05-10-2014, 12:43 PM
I recall when these first came out.

ALOT of guys went out and bought the Timemasters instead of the commercial units.

Oh blah blah blab, I don't see any difference between the two except $1000, how smart am I for saving $1000….

and so it went, multiple posts about the wonders of the great machine.

BUT something hardly anyone realizes, FULLY 50% of the guys on here aren't REALLY commercial/professional operations.
They are hobbyists, enthusiasts, opportunists and wanna bes.
They have 15-30 customers, not 15-30 a day.

so they all make these posts, and, SOUND like full operations, so what happens is, someone reads real quick a bunch of these posts, because they are busy, they run a full time operation, they don't have time to "learn" who all these people are, they skim through topic after topic, yup, looks like a good idea….

The problem is, the 19 guys that bought time masters before him, aren't real pros.
That's the main issue with this site.
There's no filter or categories, it's like going on a dating site where all the chicks are 36-24-26 and 25 year old virgins with PHDs.
What they mean to say is they are post op transvestite former marines…but you know it's practically the same thing because, well after a few more weeks of testosterone suppressor, no one will be able to tell, except everyone who watches Jerry Springer…..


These are the same guys who will drop 30-50 grand on a pick up mull around town in, pulling their Home Depot Trailer, with a fisher price wind up lawn mower with the little plastic balls in the top bouncing around and call themselves "professional"

Yup, got to have a bad ass truck to haul all my "gear around in"

except you spend 6 hours a day mowing and 2 traveling.

so what really makes more sense?

Having a Denali HD that pulls your Timemaster and a 2000 lb trailer?

Or a Kia Sorento that pulls a 5000 lb trailer with a couple of commercial mowers on it?

Everyones argument is always "Well I can't legitimize the equipment because I don't have enough work yet"

But they always seem to legitimize saving $1000 on that lawn mower, but blowing a years salary on a pick up truck they don't need, because you know, the groceries on saturday might be really heavy.


Come to think of it, everyone seems to do this with leaf blowers and weed whackers.

FS 130s and BR 500s for grass work… no 'homeowner' crap for me!

a super star destroyer to chase a couple droids across the galaxy.
But no damn photos of them so ya know, your goose stepping employees could recognize them on site??

How many so called professionals only use walkbehinds 8 to 10 hrs a day. All the pros out here only use walk behind mowers for tight sections of lawns that the ztr's won't go on. If you are a full time walk behind only company then b y all means buy commercial. But the Timemaster came out first making the companies recognize the need for a commercial 30 inch. I saved an hr each day I used my Timemaster verses a 21" and I would do that everytime. $1000 is nothing if it saves you time it makes you money. While you saved a 1000 how much did you lose in labor?

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 12:48 PM
The big selling points for me on the TimeMaster is the ridiculously quick and easy height adjustment [with blades running], the handle that folds up vertical for trailer space and the lighter weight 30 pounds+ compared to the TurfMaster.

The big draw backs on the TimeMaster for commercial use is the tiny gas tank and that vunerable governor spring on the carb near the left front of the engine.

When the TimeMaster first came out...2012 there was much criticism of design flaws A-Z. The commercial Exmark/Toro didn't hit the market till the following year. Many of those points of criticism still exist on the commercial model....?


Truth be known....I wish I had no lawns where the TimeMaster is needed. I'd rather run my BOP duallies with a tighter and much more manicured finished cut, however sometimes cutting just once with the TimeMaster and bagging is faster.

You can't tell me there is much difference in cut quality between the TurfMaster or TimeMaster. Deck is the same design etc.
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lawnsaspire
05-10-2014, 02:19 PM
The big selling points for me on the TimeMaster is the ridiculously quick and easy height adjustment [with blades running], the handle that folds up vertical for trailer space and the lighter weight 30 pounds+ compared to the TurfMaster.

The big draw backs on the TimeMaster for commercial use is the tiny gas tank and that vunerable governor spring on the carb near the left front of the engine.

When the TimeMaster first came out...2012 there was much criticism of design flaws A-Z. The commercial Exmark/Toro didn't hit the market till the following year. Many of those points of criticism still exist on the commercial model....?


Truth be known....I wish I had no lawns where the TimeMaster is needed. I'd rather run my BOP duallies with a tighter and much more manicured finished cut, however sometimes cutting just once with the TimeMaster and bagging is faster.

You can't tell me there is much difference in cut quality between the TurfMaster or TimeMaster. Deck is the same design etc.
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Exact Rottotilling. I've always liked you and had a lot of respect for your opinions but I've got to call you out. You keep saying the turfmaster is no different, it has tranny problems, there's no difference in cut, and so on. And you to my knowledge have never operated one.
Let me tell you, I own two timemasters and one turfmaster and there is a huge difference in the superiority of the turfmaster over the residential units.
Let's begin with the engine: the timemaster dies or bogs down under the slightest bit of fertilized growth when mulching, the turfmaster with the kawasaki plows through tall fertilized grass and even wet grass like a champ. It will choke and die when the deck is packed, but I've learned to do half passes in tall grass and the grass looks like it has been bagged.
The mower hit a water marker and a piece of metal edging last week and barely messed up the blades. It is heavy and won't climb an incline, but there have been no reported problems with the transmissions as you said. That was on the exmark version. I refuse to bag unless absolutely necessary and would not have been able to get thru this spring so far without the more powerful engine. I plan to put the turfmaster to rest in the garage in July and use the two timemasters during the slower growth months. I will then get the turfmaster back out in October as it eats the hell out of leaves.
I don't regret my purchase of the turfmaster, it is a great replacement for my quick 36 and I plan to build my business model and yard bidding over it.
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TPendagast
05-10-2014, 02:41 PM
Exact Rottotilling. I've always liked you and had a lot of respect for your opinions but I've got to call you out. You keep saying the turfmaster is no different, it has tranny problems, there's no difference in cut, and so on. And you to my knowledge have never operated one.
Let me tell you, I own two timemasters and one turfmaster and there is a huge difference in the superiority of the turfmaster over the residential units.
Let's begin with the engine: the timemaster dies or bogs down under the slightest bit of fertilized growth when mulching, the turfmaster with the kawasaki plows through tall fertilized grass and even wet grass like a champ. It will choke and die when the deck is packed, but I've learned to do half passes in tall grass and the grass looks like it has been bagged.
The mower hit a water marker and a piece of metal edging last week and barely messed up the blades. It is heavy and won't climb an incline, but there have been no reported problems with the transmissions as you said. That was on the exmark version. I refuse to bag unless absolutely necessary and would not have been able to get thru this spring so far without the more powerful engine. I plan to put the turfmaster to rest in the garage in July and use the two timemasters during the slower growth months. I will then get the turfmaster back out in October as it eats the hell out of leaves.
I don't regret my purchase of the turfmaster, it is a great replacement for my quick 36 and I plan to build my business model and yard bidding over it.
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All I can say about this 30" commercial mower is 2 grand.
Tight spaces?
So tight you can't fit a 36"?
Are there a lot of grassy paths through english gardens where you are from?
31" gates?

The turf master is heavy, it's still limited by walking speed (even a quick 36 can use a step saver)
If you could pop this baby up stairs or retaining walls or something like that I could see a lot more use for this mower, and maybe put up with it's draw backs, but it's heavy enough to still need ramps.
It's just not versatile enough.

If anything it seems to be best suited for a business with a high turn over that has small residential yards; because there is no learning curve to operate controls on a "push" mower.

I seriously don't understand why a solo operator would use one of these mowers.
I mean yea maybe for the first year or two, but then graduate into a 36" unit and cut ALL lawns with a 36 with the aid of a sulky.
Leave bigger lots for guys with bigger mowers.

Im not understanding the 30" are the prime mower (unless you have a sea of hourlies mowing for you)

lawnsaspire
05-10-2014, 03:05 PM
All I can say about this 30" commercial mower is 2 grand.
Tight spaces?
So tight you can't fit a 36"?
Are there a lot of grassy paths through english gardens where you are from?
31" gates?

The turf master is heavy, it's still limited by walking speed (even a quick 36 can use a step saver)
If you could pop this baby up stairs or retaining walls or something like that I could see a lot more use for this mower, and maybe put up with it's draw backs, but it's heavy enough to still need ramps.
It's just not versatile enough.

If anything it seems to be best suited for a business with a high turn over that has small residential yards; because there is no learning curve to operate controls on a "push" mower.

I seriously don't understand why a solo operator would use one of these mowers.
I mean yea maybe for the first year or two, but then graduate into a 36" unit and cut ALL lawns with a 36 with the aid of a sulky.
Leave bigger lots for guys with bigger mowers.

Im not understanding the 30" are the prime mower (unless you have a sea of hourlies mowing for you)

Ability to switch from mulching to bagging to discharging without much hassle. No side bagger to mess with. Don't have to shell out 4 or 5 grand for a commercial 36 unit. Lots of reasons actually.
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CreativeLawncareSolutions
05-10-2014, 03:09 PM
All I can say about this 30" commercial mower is 2 grand.
Tight spaces?
So tight you can't fit a 36"?
Are there a lot of grassy paths through english gardens where you are from?
31" gates?

The turf master is heavy, it's still limited by walking speed (even a quick 36 can use a step saver)
If you could pop this baby up stairs or retaining walls or something like that I could see a lot more use for this mower, and maybe put up with it's draw backs, but it's heavy enough to still need ramps.
It's just not versatile enough.

If anything it seems to be best suited for a business with a high turn over that has small residential yards; because there is no learning curve to operate controls on a "push" mower.

I seriously don't understand why a solo operator would use one of these mowers.
I mean yea maybe for the first year or two, but then graduate into a 36" unit and cut ALL lawns with a 36 with the aid of a sulky.
Leave bigger lots for guys with bigger mowers.

Im not understanding the 30" are the prime mower (unless you have a sea of hourlies mowing for you)

I'm not understanding it, either. I keep a 21 on hand for a few ultra steep hills around the University of Cincinnati campus I do, but other than that I'd rather be dead than mow with that thing.

Why not get a 36 stander? Too expensive? Hell, buy a used one. They're literally everywhere. There's a 36 inch Wright Stander on the Cincinnati CL right now listed for 2k. you could probably get it for $1500. No brainer if you ask me.

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ele/4454078020.html

Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 03:12 PM
Lawnaspire,

To be clear I was referring to cut quality and deck design. Same blades [current year], same spindles, same deck design and few others.

My new 2014 TimeMaster has noticeably more power than my old one. Not sure why...? Rpms are higher I believe. The new catcher bag is now high flow/high vent design...not sure when this changed...?

The new 2014 TimeMaster has a different personality than my old one. I mowed an overgrown lawn yesterday with it...hands down more grunt...? Same engine specs and the old #1...?
Now I'm wondering if Briggs sneaked in a different can or ported head...? It also drinks gas faster than then old one...?

Ted P.,

I enjoy mowing more with my BOP duallies 32,36 & 44 hands down than with my TimeMasters. Nicer cut, more manicured etc.

Lawnaspire had a valid point in selling his BOP Q36 single hydro in favor of the TimeMaster. The key issue is it is a rear bagger. Even with TurfMaster blades it collects less clippings. I hate bagging. If I had to bag 90%+ of my lawns...I'd quit mowing yesterday.

These are niche mowers IMO. I'd much rather ride a bigger lawn with my Dually 44 hitched with a step saver than fiddle with a lawn I use a TimeMaster on.
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Exact Rototilling
05-10-2014, 03:28 PM
For the last 3 years everybody seems to keep saying a bigger WB or stander is better. For lawns you are stuck bagging...PITA side catcher. Exmark TurfMaster and/or TimeMaster are rear baggers. These are meant to replace 21's. A WB 32 or 36 are too cumbersome on some tiny small lawns.

Between my timemaster and yBravo25 I have not used a 21" for 3 years. :)
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GMLC
05-10-2014, 05:47 PM
All I can say about this 30" commercial mower is 2 grand.
Tight spaces?
So tight you can't fit a 36"?
Are there a lot of grassy paths through english gardens where you are from?
31" gates?

The turf master is heavy, it's still limited by walking speed (even a quick 36 can use a step saver)
If you could pop this baby up stairs or retaining walls or something like that I could see a lot more use for this mower, and maybe put up with it's draw backs, but it's heavy enough to still need ramps.
It's just not versatile enough.

If anything it seems to be best suited for a business with a high turn over that has small residential yards; because there is no learning curve to operate controls on a "push" mower.

I seriously don't understand why a solo operator would use one of these mowers.
I mean yea maybe for the first year or two, but then graduate into a 36" unit and cut ALL lawns with a 36 with the aid of a sulky.
Leave bigger lots for guys with bigger mowers.

Im not understanding the 30" are the prime mower (unless you have a sea of hourlies mowing for you)

I also agree.
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lawnsaspire
05-10-2014, 06:57 PM
I also agree.
Posted via Mobile Device

If you just own a 36 then you're going to also need a nice 21. The 30 basically eliminates the need for a 36 or a 21. Unless you mow a lot of hills and inclines, which I try to stay away from. We have enough flat land in Illinois to leave the hills to someone else. Though I do feel that you need one high powered machine in the fall unless you're blowing and tarping everything.
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whiffyspark
05-10-2014, 07:00 PM
30 does not eliminate 36

A 30 isn't comparable to a 36

A 30 eliminates a 21 for [u]most[u] people.

30 and 21 are comparable
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PicturePerfectLawns
05-10-2014, 07:11 PM
I'm with lawnaspire on this one. While each mower has their own place, it's more of a personal preference. I backed out of buying a 36" for this year and couldn't be happier with the 30". If your mowing certain size properties a 36" has it's place. If your mowing other properties the 30" has it's place. I have the money to buy a 36" now if I want, but I DON'T want too. A lot of my properties have small sides 3-5 feet wide going all the way down the side of the house and I prefer not to sandwich a 36" between the sides of houses then have to back it all the way out. My 30" I can zoom down the side of the house full speed, and turn on a dime. I have properties in one neighborhood that have a grass lawn on the bottom, and then it has a landscaping brick on the side of the sidewalk, then grass up higher on the top level. With the 30" I can just pop up the front end and lift up the back. And for you to say the 30" is heavy, that gives me the assumption that you haven't ever operated a 30". The weight is so balanced, when operating the 30" feels a tad bit, IF ANY, heavier then a 22" mower. Not to say a 36" doesn't have it's place. But my 30" has it's place on a lot of my small lawns.

GMLC
05-10-2014, 07:20 PM
If you just own a 36 then you're going to also need a nice 21. The 30 basically eliminates the need for a 36 or a 21. Unless you mow a lot of hills and inclines, which I try to stay away from. We have enough flat land in Illinois to leave the hills to someone else. Though I do feel that you need one high powered machine in the fall unless you're blowing and tarping everything.
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Around here those with a 36 rarely use a 21. Not many places a 36 cant go. I have seen guys mow an acre plus on a 36 with a sulkey. I guess I dont see the 30" niche. We also dont see guys running just 21's around here. I cant really picture a lawn where a 36 cant go. What do these lawns look like? Are they gardens with lawn walking paths?
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lawnsaspire
05-10-2014, 07:53 PM
Around here those with a 36 rarely use a 21. Not many places a 36 cant go. I have seen guys mow an acre plus on a 36 with a sulkey. I guess I dont see the 30" niche. We also dont see guys running just 21's around here. I cant really picture a lawn where a 36 cant go. What do these lawns look like? Are they gardens with lawn walking paths?
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As I said earlier, why pay 4 or 5 grand for a top notch 36 plus 300 for a side catcher, plus cost for a mulch kit when you get all of that studs with the 30. To me it's the best size mower for those that mow small or tiny lawns.
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GMLC
05-10-2014, 09:17 PM
As I said earlier, why pay 4 or 5 grand for a top notch 36 plus 300 for a side catcher, plus cost for a mulch kit when you get all of that studs with the 30. To me it's the best size mower for those that mow small or tiny lawns.
Posted via Mobile Device

I had mentioned in another thread that if cost was an issue the 30 may make sence over a 36. But I bet over the long run the 36 would more than pay for itself. Longevity, productivity, cut quality and the ability to cut mid sized properties. Take good care of a hydro 36 and you could probably get ten years out of it.
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JimsLocalLawn
05-10-2014, 10:04 PM
Since you guys are stuck comparing these to hydro's....

30" Timemaster / Turfmaster vs 36" Belt walk behind, which is better? GO!

Patriot Services
05-10-2014, 10:21 PM
Since you guys are stuck comparing these to hydro's....

30" Timemaster / Turfmaster vs 36" Belt walk behind, which is better? GO!

I would put my 20 year old Encore belt drive against TWO of them. 30 degree hill mandatory. Wouldn't break a sweat and be eating lunch much sooner.
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PicturePerfectLawns
05-10-2014, 11:48 PM
It's like comparing apples and oranges to me. Just a few days ago, I weighed all the options on this subject when looking at big walk behinds then decided not to purchase. A big walk behind outshines the 30" on big open lots all day, or for example as Patriot said above, a lawn with a 30 degree hill. But bajesus, are you guys mowing neighborhoods located in the hills? Because I'm sure not. 99.9998% of my residential don't have a 30 degree incline, and the same percentage of them are small to mid-size lawns where my 30" times out minutes faster then the Meto 36. Not to mention, I go from one Barmuda lawn, to a St. Augustine lawn next door. Take a guess how long it takes me to adjust the height on the Metro by messing with the washers on the spindles, adjusting the rear axle, on the spacer on the front casters. It takes me 3 1/2 seconds to adjust the height from a Barmuda to a St. Augustine lawn on my 30". When I hit the block with two Zoysia lawns it takes me 5 1/2 seconds to remove the bag, pull the mulch plug, and hinge the bag. Many people forget these small things that add up to time on each stop. You may my Metro may out pull the 30" all day up a hill, but granted as I mentioned 99.998% don't have 30" inclines, but you can bet that 100% of them have air conditioners to maneuver around. But can you go around the ac's, patio's, flower beds, through the gates, and along the edges of the driveways which every yard has wot? No, but you can bet your butt the 30" will all day. You can bet your butt I can adjust the height between lawns much quicker. And you can bet your butt somebody was smart enough to time the lawns before throwing out bashing's between mowers. I like walk behinds and I like the 30's. The walk behind holds its own and shines on a few yards, the 30" is much more efficient and outshines the walk behind on THE MAJORITY of mine. And again, the majority of my lawns don't have 30 degree inclines.

Patriot Services
05-11-2014, 01:49 AM
The hill was just icing. I have a full 1.5 of inches in blades spacer and another 1.5 in the casters. Don't change height that often. But on a single lawn no competition. Turn on near zero,no lifting. Back down in own width. Deep fabbed deck. Will get in 99% of same areas. Side bagger for when it just can't be avoided. Just don't see a compelling reason for one.
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Patriot Services
05-11-2014, 01:53 AM
The hill was just icing. I have a full 1.5 of inches in blades spacer and another 1.5 in the casters. Don't change height that often. But on a single lawn no competition. Turn on near zero,no lifting. Back down in own width. Deep fabbed deck. Will get in 99% of same areas. Side bagger for when it just can't be avoided. Just don't see a compelling reason for one. Worse than hills here are 4.5 high lush St Auggie that no 30 or 21 or 25 will push through. Its just too thick.
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TPendagast
05-11-2014, 04:42 AM
It's like comparing apples and oranges to me. Just a few days ago, I weighed all the options on this subject when looking at big walk behinds then decided not to purchase. A big walk behind outshines the 30" on big open lots all day, or for example as Patriot said above, a lawn with a 30 degree hill. But bajesus, are you guys mowing neighborhoods located in the hills? Because I'm sure not. 99.9998% of my residential don't have a 30 degree incline, and the same percentage of them are small to mid-size lawns where my 30" times out minutes faster then the Meto 36. Not to mention, I go from one Barmuda lawn, to a St. Augustine lawn next door. Take a guess how long it takes me to adjust the height on the Metro by messing with the washers on the spindles, adjusting the rear axle, on the spacer on the front casters. It takes me 3 1/2 seconds to adjust the height from a Barmuda to a St. Augustine lawn on my 30". When I hit the block with two Zoysia lawns it takes me 5 1/2 seconds to remove the bag, pull the mulch plug, and hinge the bag. Many people forget these small things that add up to time on each stop. You may my Metro may out pull the 30" all day up a hill, but granted as I mentioned 99.998% don't have 30" inclines, but you can bet that 100% of them have air conditioners to maneuver around. But can you go around the ac's, patio's, flower beds, through the gates, and along the edges of the driveways which every yard has wot? No, but you can bet your butt the 30" will all day. You can bet your butt I can adjust the height between lawns much quicker. And you can bet your butt somebody was smart enough to time the lawns before throwing out bashing's between mowers. I like walk behinds and I like the 30's. The walk behind holds its own and shines on a few yards, the 30" is much more efficient and outshines the walk behind on THE MAJORITY of mine. And again, the majority of my lawns don't have 30 degree inclines.

Adjusting the rear axle? what are you talking about?

That's not how you adjust the height of cut on a fixed deck walk behind.
There are spacers on the front caster wheels, and if you want to get technical, spacers on the spindles.

It doesn't take but a minute to change spacers on the casters.

a 36" mower can easily do lawns from 100 square feet to an acre.

While the 30" is more productive than the 21" it's price increase doesn't warrant it enough.

No you don't need a 21 ALSO with a 36. Hardly if ever use my 21s… I have them literally for something where I have to lift to mower to cut a piece of grass or go up and down steps.
Even then, I have used aluminum or wood ramps to defeat retaining walls or short steps with much better results than using the 21.

IF there is a tiny piece of grass then I just grab the 21…if it's sizeable I use other methods to get the 36 to it.

ANY lawn you can use a 30" on, I will make you look silly running the same route with a 36" belt drive.
With a 36" hydro, I will make you quit and go home.

Thats the reason to spend the money. Much more production, much better results.

the 30" as I've said before, are for people who "think" a commercial intermediate walk behind is hard to use, and don't want to learn how, because they might be embarrassed when someone shows them actually how.

You can buy a ZTR and pretty much learn its use by hanging out on your back lawn on a saturday with no one around to poke fun at you.
Same goes for the 30".

But an intermediate walk behind is different.
Ive seen people stumble over these for weeks, and eventually sell them because "they are no good"…what they mean is they are embossed because they can't figure out how to use one properly without learning from someone who knows how.

When the commercial intermediate walk behind was king in the lawn service industry, you saw a lot less week end warrior, part time, never worked for another LCO before type competition, because they were stuck with either a lawn boy or a lawn tractor, and they couldn't compete in production or quality.
So they stuck to the back burner.
But adding in intuitive mowers like the ZTR has brought on the idiocy of people who have never even so much as mowed their own lawn, to buying a mower and becoming a "professional" over night.
This advent led to the shifting of the residential market being dominated by "low ballers" on lawns that were easy to mow with a ZTR.
Which meant the True professional with multiple, different sized machines was left to the more technical, less desirable lawns.
Because, let's face it, anyone with a 10k mower making stripes, makes the same stripes.
But with the 30" which is also an intuitive mower, now cheap hacks move into the commercial technical lawn market.

BUT this first generation of 30s doesn't hold up. Not even the commercial ones. and can't hold a candle to the productivity of a 36" wb.

Will they fix that? Maybe.

A guy that can actually run a commercial intermediate walk behind is becoming a rare thing, because they are not an intuitive mower (much like the walker, which I've seen people wedge themselves under trucks/trailers and almost decapitating themselves)

but ti's silly to say you can mow lawns faster or better with a 30" than a 36" or even a 32"

Exact Rototilling
05-13-2014, 01:35 AM
There was a post in this thread re: TimeMaster Overspeed...? Forgot the exact screen name...? Was going to PM them. Mod's must of yanked the post...he said he was calling the dealer...?

I called my dealer with ZERO success....:hammerhead:

:help: needed over here...http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=424463



*trucewhiteflag*

Caddyshack Lawn Care
05-13-2014, 11:06 AM
1. TM is great if the terrain is fairly flat. If you're dealing with hills at all it's NOT a replacement for an Exmark Metro (32" or 36"). On flat lawns the TM will pull itself. On an incline YOU are the driving force - the machine will not pull itself up a hill.

2. TM gives a nice-looking cut and saves a lot of time in areas I used to use the 21".

3. It's been a little while since I sold the Exmark WBs and replaced them with a ZTR, the TM and a 21". I couldn't be happier with the decision.

But I view my equipment as tools to get a job done. To me, they are disposable. I'm surprised my TM is going into it's third year now with no noticeable wear. It runs as good now as the day I brought it home. When I bought it I didn't think it would make it through the second season because it didn't seem like a real mower. I've been pleasantly surprised.

It's no Exmark. But it was never meant to be.

Exact Rototilling
05-13-2014, 11:46 AM
1. TM is great if the terrain is fairly flat. If you're dealing with hills at all it's NOT a replacement for an Exmark Metro (32" or 36"). On flat lawns the TM will pull itself. On an incline YOU are the driving force - the machine will not pull itself up a hill.

2. TM gives a nice-looking cut and saves a lot of time in areas I used to use the 21".

3. It's been a little while since I sold the Exmark WBs and replaced them with a ZTR, the TM and a 21". I couldn't be happier with the decision.

But I view my equipment as tools to get a job done. To me, they are disposable. I'm surprised my TM is going into it's third year now with no noticeable wear. It runs as good now as the day I brought it home. When I bought it I didn't think it would make it through the second season because it didn't seem like a real mower. I've been pleasantly surprised.

It's no Exmark. But it was never meant to be.

Good examples and points made here.

My original TimeMaster actually shows considerable wear. I ended up using it more than I ever thought I would. I prefer to mow lawns where I can use my larger WB dual hydro mowers. Since I own a BOP dually 44, 36 and the 32 and all of those mowers leave a nicer and more manicured finished cut than my TimeMaster can and they are faster and a joy to use. IMO the TimeMaster leaves a better cut than a 21".

My goal in the mowing game is to leave a manucuried lawn that few homeowners and/or other cutters for hire can match.

The day I have to settle for leaving an average quality cut for whatever reason is the day I need to seriously consider ditching mowing as a service and seek greener grass with better margins.
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