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irrig8r
04-06-2012, 09:51 PM
Which lighting products are truly made on US soil?

Probably doesn't matter to some, but I'm just curious. Someone told me today that FX parts are manufactured elsewhere and assembled here. Is it true, or were they misinformed?

That leaves Vista, Nightscaping and Beachside as American made.
Are there more?


http://vistapro.com/about.aspx

http://nightscaping.com/handcrafted-products.php

http://www.beachsidelighting.com/information.php?info_id=14

BrandonV
04-06-2012, 10:03 PM
coppermoon.com i believe makes most of their stuff in GA

irrig8r
04-06-2012, 10:12 PM
Anyone ever hear of Rethink Lighting?

http://www.rethinklightinginc.com/solutions/outdoor_lighting.html


There's also Luma Lighting.

http://www.lumalighting.com/about.html


And DG Lights maybe?

irrig8r
04-06-2012, 10:15 PM
coppermoon.com i believe makes most of their stuff in GA

Really? I thought the brass fixtures were Chinese. At least the ones I saw were.

irrig8r
04-06-2012, 10:19 PM
Well, FX Luminaire claims to be US manufactured too. I thought so. maybe my source was wrong.

http://www.fxl.com/why_fx.htm

BrandonV
04-06-2012, 10:49 PM
Really? I thought the brass fixtures were Chinese. At least the ones I saw were.

it may just be their copper stuff that is usa made

S&MLL
04-06-2012, 11:18 PM
Copper is spun in west point ga for coppermoon
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-07-2012, 09:47 AM
Auroralight, HK lighting, Vision3, BK, Hevilight all all made in the USA. I am sure there are others.
Posted via Mobile Device

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-07-2012, 10:26 AM
Gregg, a quick browse through that Luma lighting website tells me that the vast majority of their products are made in China. All the same forms, shapes and styles that are available from a wide variety of SE Asian sources.

Does the USA have or enforce country of origin regulations when it comes to consumer products?

I have at least a handful of clients each year ask me "where are the products made?" so I know that they are concerned about product quality and costing. I also know that there is a huge difference in the quality of components that are made domestically compared to those made in SE Asia. This is even evident in products that claim to be made in the USA but in fact are only assembled here.

steveparrott
04-07-2012, 02:46 PM
Regarding "Made in USA" Claims,

There are two relevent sources of information.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) defines and enforces "Made in USA" claims. Their definition is based on a product being made (and sourced) "all or virtually all" in the USA.

From the FTC, "All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

There is some ambiguity in the standard. For example, a lighting fixture with US-made body and stake but foreign-made lens and socket might or might not comply. The standard considers place of final assembly (must be USA), the importance of the foreign-made part(s) to the functionality of the final product, and the relative monetary value of the foreign part(s).

The recent adoption of LED's does call into question some "Made in USA" claims since mfgs. are claiming LED's as a prime feature of the product and LED's are expensive. If these LED's and their drivers come from Asia (as most do) then it's hard to claim that they are a negligable part of the product.

FTC "Made in USA" Standards (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard)

The other source to consider is the "Buy America Act". Passed in 1933, it mandates that US-made products be selecting for Government contracts. It is also an important part of Obama's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and for the DOE's Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) program.

The "Made in USA" qualifications for these programs and government contracts are much more flexible than the FTC standards, and include exclusions relevent to the project at hand, and allow products made in countries that participate in free trade agreements.

This is why most CAST products can not claim "Made in USA" on the packaging (since they're made in Colombia), but they do qualify for BUY American (hence LEED credits) since the USA has a free trade agreement with Colombia.

irrig8r
04-08-2012, 02:06 AM
Auroralight, HK lighting, Vision3, BK, Hevilight all all made in the USA. I am sure there are others.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks James.

irrig8r
04-08-2012, 02:08 AM
Gregg, a quick browse through that Luma lighting website tells me that the vast majority of their products are made in China. All the same forms, shapes and styles that are available from a wide variety of SE Asian sources.



As far as Luma, I'm only going by the info they publish on their site.

"Luma Lighting strives to provide the highest quality brass and copper outdoor lighting fixtures, handcrafted in the U.S.A."

So, you're saying that "striving to provide" isn't the same as doing it?

irrig8r
04-08-2012, 02:15 AM
Regarding "Made in USA" Claims,

There are two relevent sources of information.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) defines and enforces "Made in USA" claims. Their definition is based on a product being made (and sourced) "all or virtually all" in the USA.

From the FTC, "All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

There is some ambiguity in the standard. For example, a lighting fixture with US-made body and stake but foreign-made lens and socket might or might not comply. The standard considers place of final assembly (must be USA), the importance of the foreign-made part(s) to the functionality of the final product, and the relative monetary value of the foreign part(s).

The recent adoption of LED's does call into question some "Made in USA" claims since mfgs. are claiming LED's as a prime feature of the product and LED's are expensive. If these LED's and their drivers come from Asia (as most do) then it's hard to claim that they are a negligable part of the product.

FTC "Made in USA" Standards (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard)

The other source to consider is the "Buy America Act". Passed in 1933, it mandates that US-made products be selecting for Government contracts. It is also an important part of Obama's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and for the DOE's Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) program.

The "Made in USA" qualifications for these programs and government contracts are much more flexible than the FTC standards, and include exclusions relevent to the project at hand, and allow products made in countries that participate in free trade agreements.

This is why most CAST products can not claim "Made in USA" on the packaging (since they're made in Colombia), but they do qualify for BUY American (hence LEED credits) since the USA has a free trade agreement with Colombia.

Interesting distinctions.

emby
04-08-2012, 12:13 PM
Excelsior Lighting

easy-lift guy
04-08-2012, 12:31 PM
Not to be off topic per say, I manufacturer Two products here in the USA and I sell all over the world. Proud of that fact, and will continue to be made in the USA by citizens of the USA.
easy-lift guy

irrig8r
04-08-2012, 12:32 PM
Excelsior Lighting

That one's new to me. Their TFs look like Justin.

Looked them up too, and found this:

http://www.justininc.com/pdfs/Buy_American_Provision.pdf

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Hey Ken... Did someone leave Vision3 and open up Excelsior? It sure looks that way to me. Their products look like exact copies of Vision3, who we know was founded and operated by some guys who left BK. Will Vision3 be launching legal proceedings against Excelsior just as BK sued Vision3? Why bother with the new upstart selling an identical line of products to an established competitor... is there a significant price advantage?

emby
04-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Hey Ken... Did someone leave Vision3 and open up Excelsior? It sure looks that way to me. Their products look like exact copies of Vision3, who we know was founded and operated by some guys who left BK. Will Vision3 be launching legal proceedings against Excelsior just as BK sued Vision3? Why bother with the new upstart selling an identical line of products to an established competitor... is there a significant price advantage?

Really....I am sure they are not the "exact" same. They might look a like but gees, so do these:

Check these out: https://store.illumicaregroup.com/Demeter_p_83.html
Flush mount, louvered, well sealed, approved for use with either 20W MR16 or LED MR16 lamps.

Or you could go really expensive and look at: http://www.hunza.co.nz/product-index/sllu.html

Not much difference.... except of course in the price!

Just saying....

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-08-2012, 10:00 PM
The Vision3 and the Excelsior do look identical whereas you can see obvious differences between the Illumicare and Hunza fixtures.

Ken you mentioned Excelsior, so I assume you have seen or used the product. If so, what is the story there? It is a new brand to me and by the looks of their website they are pretty new to the market as well.

dglights
04-09-2012, 02:59 PM
Doesn't look like they have the patented locking knuckle. Vision3 and BK both have different patents on this.

irrig8r
04-09-2012, 10:41 PM
Doesn't look like they have the patented locking knuckle. Vision3 and BK both have different patents on this.

Sherman, if you don't mind my asking, what portion of your products are domestic vs. foreign and do your fixtures qualify under the terms that Steve Parrot noted above?

dglights
04-10-2012, 12:12 PM
Hi Gregg, we manufacture/assemble everything in the US, including electronics and LED modules. The only component not manufactured state side are the optics which account for less than 1% of product cost. I think most manufacturers of integrated LED are producing in the US, it allows for more design control and flexibility.

JimLewis
04-13-2012, 04:51 AM
You can ad Philips / Hadco to the list. They are made in the USA.

ELumin8
07-02-2012, 11:42 PM
Sorry Jim, Hadco is made in China just like many of the other "import & re-branding" companies mentioned in this thread.

It's complete joke to see companies call themselves a manufacturer(forms raw materials into finished products) when they are clearly a wholesale distributor(buys in large quantities and then breaks bulk), or an importer(bring goods from an outside source), and some are simply branding goods under a private label and still make the claim of being a manufacturer. And the best yet is when someone calls themselves a manufacturer just because they provide a design idea or have the factory change the function or form, reality tells me they should call themselves an engineers or designers assistant at best, ya it's your design but have enough balls to give credit where it is due and take credit for what you honestly contribute to the overall product.

Any takers willing to step up and add to this? Should we scrutinize a little more aggressively when someone claims they are a manufacturer?

JimLewis
07-03-2012, 02:27 AM
Okay. That may be true. That's just what I was told. I don't really care one way or another. Of course I'd prefer things to be made in America. But I've resigned to the notion that things being made in America doesn't really happen much anymore. The lighting I install is made in China. The irrigation I install is mostly made in Mexico. The computer I'm typing on was made in Japan. It's that kind of world now, I guess. :rolleyes:

LLC RI
07-03-2012, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=irrig8r;4373674]Anyone ever hear of Rethink Lighting?

http://www.rethinklightinginc.com/solutions/outdoor_lighting.html



Be careful of Rethink Lighting. I did a large project with their ( well supposedly their lights) and it turned into a big fiasco. I can't go into details here, but frankly, I don't even think they are still in business.

As for made in USA... A few comments and thoughts....

Way back when, I was consulting for a company called Sturdy Lantern. I had gone to college with one of the sons, and they hired me to handle some of their landscape lighting show rooms and displays.

They were a company that had been around for over 50 years and made everything in USA. I was at the factory, I saw this myself. Over the period of the early 90s and forward, the Chinese infusion of lighting was becoming more and more prevalent and business was off. They moved from a 110,000 sf facility to a 50,000 sf facility and by the time we got to 1997, they were closed.

It was impossible to compete and stay afloat with so much product infiltrating the marketplace at such lower price points.

The principle of the company, managed to start a small spin off that just made landscape lighting as we had the tools and dies to make the parts. That didn't last either because of the same reasons.

The industry that we are in is now represented by a good amount of manufacturers who do make product off shore. There are others who make some here and some there, and yet others who make it all here, but with some parts made overseas.

One company to take a second look is Nightscaping. Like some of you, I got my start with Nightscaping and through the education from the company and from Bill Locklin himself. As I understand it, Nightscaping manufactures components in the USA and if that is what you are looking for, they are certainly a company experienced in the art of landscape lighting and the creation of fixtures that suit the needs of the lighting designer.

In light of all of these factors, I have mixed up my lighting pallet to include some of everything. Certain jobs require the use of Chinese made brass fixtures, and drop in LED's, while others can support the use of machined brass integrated LED fixtures. There are no absolutes. We all need to do what we have to in order to keep our businesses running while maintaining the quality and integrity of our projects.

Happy 4th of July

George

ELumin8
07-04-2012, 12:23 AM
Jim, I agree with you there! My computer is also from Japan but my desk is from Sweden.

I think the main factors are fair price, quality of product, and dependability of distributor to honor the warranty if the manufacturer decides to fold.

I have been known to use a BL5016 or too myself.