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Lawn-N-Garden Guy
12-14-2002, 11:25 PM
This morning I was out at 6:00am to clear a few bussiness walks,I finished about 8:00 ,got a cup of joe and thought I would stop back and recieve payment at one of my new accounts.
Its an Italian pizza shop,which I did frequent alot when my wife doesn't feel like cooking. Any how I went in and his wife that speaks very broken english says waite my husband will be out.So after about 5 min. he comes out with both barrels blazing and saying he won't pay me for a couple of shovel fulls of snow And I explained that the walks were salted and shoveled and he also pays for the insurance that I can be depended on to have him cleared before he opens which I met my end of the deal.Its not the $$, its just the principal that he thinks I will do it for pennies and he expects me to be there when he feels like. Luky for me there are two more pizza shops in town . Not too luky for him (Oh wonder if anyone picked up those 10 large garbage pies,wings and drinks that was ordered for lunch)OOPS! Paybacks are a b#tch LOL

grassdaddy
12-14-2002, 11:41 PM
Should have been 11 pies.More power to ya!!!!:p

DLS1
12-15-2002, 01:12 AM
Very unprofessional.

So you basically turn out to be like the guy that stiffed you by ordering food from him and then stiffing him by not picking it up. Thats why we have small claim courts. How far will you go to get even with someone?

Sounds like you might be the type that if someone cuts in from of you to close on the road you will go into road rage.

cos
12-15-2002, 01:37 AM
Let me say that it is wrong to do what he did, but if the facts are right, the pizza guy got what he deserved. Alot of those small mom and pop pizza joints are big stiffs.

bobbygedd
12-15-2002, 01:40 AM
"very unproffessional?" . ha, u want to get peed on, thats your business. i say order at least 10 pies everyday, and also tell everyone u talk to that u got food poisoning last time u ate there.

Tony Harrell
12-15-2002, 06:18 AM
Move on. That sort of thing will eat you up inside. Getting even should be reserved for the truly deserving like bin laden.

SpringValley
12-15-2002, 02:24 PM
:( I agree. It was very unprofessional to order the pizzas and not pick them up just to spite the owner. A lot of the mom & pop shops operate on very thin margins. Responses like those are exactly the type that give the rest of us in this industry a bad name. You should be ashamed of your behavior. I sure you could have worked something out with the owner.

Matt

bob
12-15-2002, 04:01 PM
Just out of curiosity, how much money did you lose?

Randy Scott
12-15-2002, 06:41 PM
Doesn't take much of a response from some people to see who's going to have a rough time being in business. :rolleyes:

MikeLT1Z28
12-15-2002, 06:45 PM
yep, i have to agree with the above statement.

my part time job is working at a mom and pop shop. my boss used to be a big domino's franchisee up north and he said he'd much rather own the shop he has now. nice guy, very lenient if i have jobs to do and i'm late. also has some good food that the big chains don't offer.

DLCS
12-15-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Randy Scott
Doesn't take much of a response from some people to see who's going to have a rough time being in business. :rolleyes:

I totally agree with Randy's statement.

awm
12-15-2002, 06:56 PM
assuming the services u provided were up to par. u just ran into one o the people that will expect u to sweat free ,then not say anything ,if they act ugly enough.im not much on revenge but u gotta answer these sorry people some how. u chose your method. u also showed him how vulnerable he is.
somebody needed to.

southerngent
12-15-2002, 07:22 PM
A lot of LCO's out there are on a shoe string also. When the mom and pop places treat us like trash....what can they expect in re-turn? Turning the other cheek and eatin it....tears me up more than getting even does. :angry:

MikeLT1Z28
12-15-2002, 07:48 PM
and some people can't understand why this industry gets a bad reputation! :waving:

boohoo
12-16-2002, 03:22 AM
What you think the US Gov't and there numerous agencies arent retaliating against guys who screw them. Wake up ...it starts at the top. Aint nobody screamin from there rooftops about it being unprofessional. Landscapers / Mowing contractors arent god like.

Bill Davis
12-16-2002, 11:17 AM
You should have just moved on and let it rolled of your back. Know instead of you looking like the good guy you and him are both playing on the same level. Dont think he isn't going to talk bad about you too.

Albemarle Lawn
12-16-2002, 11:23 AM
Every guido's greatest fear. A swim in the East Wivvva!

Andrew S
12-16-2002, 11:32 AM
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword!

sometimes if you are not ethical or honest it will bite you on the behind at a later date.

surely if there was a disagreement regarding payment there are other ways to claim your payment.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :dizzy:

Nebraska
12-16-2002, 02:58 PM
Lawn-N-Garden Guy
Nice illustration of YOUR character!

quikag
12-16-2002, 03:51 PM
All of you guys that are defending this jerkoff that stole Lawn n Garden's services or flaming him for retaliating in the way he did.....what would you have done. Sometimes it justs makes people feel better to every now and then put some cheap *** trying to get something for nothing in there place. Before all you guys just try and go knocking someones character, why don't you be the "man" and take a different approach by suggesting alternatives to his actions so maybe we can all learn better methods. Just brushing it off and walking away with your tail between your legs is bullcrap!!! When people just simply continue getting away with this "theft of services" crap it will continue happening more and more. Say lawn and garden says screw it and just blows it off and decides not to provide services for this guy, he'll then go hire one of you to provide services and the same crap will happen to you. Small claims court for maybe $100 bucks.......come on......no one wants to go through all that hassle to try and collect hundred bucks.

Randy J
12-16-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by quikag
All of you guys that are defending this jerkoff that stole Lawn n Garden's services or flaming him for retaliating in the way he did.....what would you have done. Before all you guys just try and go knocking someones character, why don't you be the "man" and take a different approach by suggesting alternatives to his actions so maybe we can all learn better methods. Just brushing it off and walking away with your tail between your legs is bullcrap!!! ...

Ok, I'm not knocking Lawn-and-Garden Guy's character, and I will tell you what I would have done, I would have been man enough to walk away. I wouldn't feel the need to take retaliatory measures. If he's this way with all his suppliers, he probably won't last too long in business anyway. The next time it snowed, he would pay me up front for the one he owed me, as well as the current snow removal work though. If he wasn't willing to do that, then I'd move on to the next customer. Life's too short to carry a grudge.

Randy

DLCS
12-16-2002, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by quikag
All of you guys that are defending this jerkoff that stole Lawn n Garden's services or flaming him for retaliating in the way he did.....what would you have done. Sometimes it justs makes people feel better to every now and then put some cheap *** trying to get something for nothing in there place. Before all you guys just try and go knocking someones character, why don't you be the "man" and take a different approach by suggesting alternatives to his actions so maybe we can all learn better methods. Just brushing it off and walking away with your tail between your legs is bullcrap!!! When people just simply continue getting away with this "theft of services" crap it will continue happening more and more. Say lawn and garden says screw it and just blows it off and decides not to provide services for this guy, he'll then go hire one of you to provide services and the same crap will happen to you. Small claims court for maybe $100 bucks.......come on......no one wants to go through all that hassle to try and collect hundred bucks.




So, what is your solution? I wouldn't get any satisfaction by ordering pizzas and not picking them up. I would hardly call that revenge/getting even. I would more than likely just let it go, but that would depend on the amount of money in question. I think sometimes you have to expect things like this but if were talking alot of money that would be a different story.


Mike
DLCS

Nebraska
12-16-2002, 04:18 PM
I absolutely am QUESTIONING HIS CHARACTER!!!!

How one handles this simple collection and communication issue reveals a TON ABOUT CHARACTER!!!

How to do it differently?

1. CONTRACT with terms of payment, scope of work, etc...

If you don't think it reveals a ton about someone's character maybe you should check in the mirror and do your own "character check".

Gravely_Man
12-16-2002, 04:20 PM
Best of luck getting your money from these people. I know it is a hassle but small claims court is the way to go or just let it go and learn from this problem. Trying to hurt the other guy is not the best approach.


Gravley_Man

quikag
12-16-2002, 04:46 PM
Get off your "high horse" nebraska and maybe start posting something constructive rather that just trying to attack others. This guy comes on here and starts a thread about getting screwed over, then all your posts are attacking his character. I'm not saying what he did was right, but everyone can sometimes act "out of character" and do stupid things. Quit being so damn judgmental and maybe we can all learn from this thread like of other ideas on 1)preventing this from happening, 2) what to do if this does happen, and 3) ways to warn each other away from customers like this.

Nebraska
12-16-2002, 05:02 PM
Quikag,

It is about character!

It's the judgement call to, as you say "act out of character", that makes his response to the issue quite possibly even worse than the original problem.

Far too often too many of us are afraid to call out what are basic and fundamental issues in life.....

Do you think his problem is going to be solved with
1. a credit check on the prospective customer,
2. a well written and worded contract,
3. or more effective communication skills with a customer.........???????

The same problem is going to exist as long as the attitude of "he burns me so I'm going to burn him worse" still exists. Sure it's normal to have these things cross your mind but to act upon it is where the line is crossed; and he crossed the line.

You want to learn from this thread? How elementary do we have to go to explain what is good and what is bad?

The way that everyday, simple situations are handled reveals much about how far you will go in business and MOST OF ALL; in LIFE.

By the way quikag....welcome to Lawnsite.

Randy J
12-16-2002, 06:12 PM
Good post Nebraska!

Randy

bobbygedd
12-16-2002, 06:43 PM
another thing that gives this business a bad name are the punks who get stiffed and do nothing about it. when the consumer gets a whiff that they can stiff the lawn guy and nothing happens, the bad eggs do exactly that. screw that "turn the other cheek" crap, maybe your mortgage company will turn the other cheek when u cant pay the bill? i doubt it, they will put u and your kids out on the street.

bilbo7021
12-16-2002, 07:02 PM
I'm actually wondering something here. What would happen if lawn and garden went to the police and pressed charges? I know he'd have to probably push them on it, but wouldn't this be considered theft of services? or a very large letter to the local paper? and if he's small enough, I'd think the pizza guy is getting supplies from a nearby supply house; I'd actually write something to them or contact them in some manner to see if they knew how his record is. What I'm getting at is, publish the pizza owners action in as many places as possible. And heck, I'd be telling everybody I know about it just to hit the guy with a bad rep so he could deal with that. And what about a collection letter? If lawn and garden sent one out, and it was ignored, he'd have even more grounds to stand on, plus to recover any costs of this action to recover his loses. Short of that, I'd almost want to hire some kid for say $5 to stand outside the pizza shop with a sign telling everyone how the pizza guy doesn't pay his bills. All the police would be able to do is tell you to stop; but again, it would bring an official third party into the situation.

Thus lawn and garden wouldn't stoop down to the pizza owners level, but still get the word out that he was stiffed. Word of mouth and public action do way more than ghost ordering food.

bobbygedd
12-16-2002, 07:29 PM
as far as a complaint with the local police, it depends what town u r in. i did it in one town, and i got my money. in two other towns, the p.d wanted nothing to do with it, told me to file a complaint with small claims. so, i went the "old fashioned route"
. guess what? got my dough.

JimLewis
12-16-2002, 08:03 PM
Well, I'll chime in here. Might as well get into the mess of it! hehe. :D

I agree with Nebraska that it says a lot about character when you act to get revenge. It's not the right way to do things for several reasons. Especially for a guy who's 38.

But, on the Lawn-N-Garden Guy's behalf, I must say that sometimes it's very difficult to restrain yourself and do what you know is right. Sometimes in the heat of the moment when you are blazing mad you just act on your first impulse without really thinking about the consequences.

We probably all agree it was Lawn-N-Garden Guy who was screwed over and that he didn't deserve what he got. And we all agree that the Pizza owner deserves to pay for his actions. What we don't all agree on is who should be the enforcer of making the pizza guy pay.

All I can say is in some cases you are just so pissed that you don't think. And I can totally sympathize with that feeling. I've come SOOO close so many times to getting a customer back for screwing me over. But somehow I've always managed to restrain myself before I did anything brash.

I really think the best advice was Tony's where he said, "Move on." That's what I always try to do. Sometimes you waste so much mental energy on hatred and being mad at someone that you don't even realize that if you had just brushed it off and went on with your business, you'd probably have made twice as much $ in the mental time you saved.

Detailed LawnService
12-16-2002, 09:06 PM
If i was you I would do all of your bill collecting by invoice
Mainly so you can detail your charges, charge sales tax, and apply any feesable extra charges.
This way you always have something to go back on
Plus if it snows more than a few times in a week you dont have to keep going to collect.
Plus the customer knows your serious!!!!!!

Welcome to the site.:blush:

Barkleymut
12-16-2002, 09:41 PM
Lawn n Garden, shame on you. Shame on you for getting revenge so quickly. You should have waited 5 years for when you had a huge operation and then had 10 F 650's dump 15 yards of snow in front of his door at noon on Saturday.

This of course would only be appropriate if you tried at least twice to collect your money and he refused. This would mean that he screwed you over and in the redneck code you owed him one. The only problem is that he could probably guess that you are the one who stiffed him for the 10 pies.

So wait 5 years and get him back really good. This reminds me....I've got some ex-customers who are about to find out how expensive it really is to stiff ME!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA Payback is a BIATTTCH

Lawn-N-Garden Guy
12-16-2002, 10:36 PM
OK lets get this over with I,m bleeding to death over the beating I have got from some of you (Randy and Mike).
Maybe that wasn't the right thing to do what I did,But at the time I was really pissed that this guy who is known for stuff like this does it to me. I was told about him before I started his account. I usally listen but don't take heed to others opinons till I find out for myself, So maybe I did deserve not getting paid from this a-hole.
As far as getting revenge what I did was mild to what others have told me to do like dumping a tri-axle load of snow on his walk or putting an artical in the local paper or making a scene in his bussiness,I wouldn't go that far to embarris him or myself and my bussiness,Or go to the cops a create havic.This was between me and him and no one else,yes he does have the right to make a living just as any of us do.But I pay for what I owe.I guess thats what contracts are for,I was always a firm beleiver that a mans word was in stone,but I guess its just righting in the mud thats gone after the the next rain

As far as me posting the tread it was to see how others would have handled it not get beat up.I think some of you better look at the character in the mirror and see what you see.

Cutter1
12-17-2002, 12:05 AM
We are all so called "professionals" here and thats why they call it self employment!!! What one person whould do isn't the same as the next person. I would be pissed too at this situation, but you can't knock and talk down to a person for doing this. Its his decision. IF you think this is wrong, so be it!!! This action, in your eyes, makes you and your service look better, so keep your comments to yourself. Remember, never burn bridges before they are crossed!!!

HarryD
12-17-2002, 02:41 AM
I would have waited till the next snow fall and pushed all the snow in front of the doors of the pizza joint . then see how he likes it :mad: im all about kicking some AZZ if you wanna screw me with no kiss

Nebraska
12-17-2002, 10:55 AM
Sometimes you waste so much mental energy ........Good advice, because some of you do not appear to be of the mental capacity to understand.

Green Pastures
12-17-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Lawn-N-Garden Guy
I was always a firm beleiver that a mans word was in stone,

Lawn guy,

This was your first mistake.
Your second was having no contract.
Your third was taking revenge.
Because of this I really dont feel sorry for you, and lost alot of respect for you.

How many times do you have to hear it, use contracts and your life will be less miserable. Don't do any work without a contract. Contracts are not 100%, but then again nothing but God is, they do stop the headache at least 99% of the time. Personally, I have had a few late payments, but I have never had trouble collecting on any bill. I ALWAYS have a written signed contract though.

You had better hope and pray that this guy is not smart enough to have caller ID. That's how these pizza joints stop this prank pizza ordering from going on you know. They can press charges, and after ordering 10 pizzas you might be getting up there in the amount of $$ that it very well could be a felony charge. Never thought of that did ya? See what uncontrolled anger/revenge can do to you.

Personally, I seriously doubt that any pizza joint is going to even start making an order for 10 pizzas without a deposit, or at the very least knowing the customer VERY well. So truthfuly I dont think you got them back at all.

Quit your crying and get a contract template and use it. Save yourself the future hassle.

bobbygedd
12-17-2002, 11:56 AM
nah, just call from a payphone, change locations continuously. order 2 pies at a time, and maybe a chicken parm dinner as well. have your friends make the calls, your wife, sister, whatever. make calls for one or two pies at a time, this way he cant find it suspicious, and the single and double pie order will add up to big $$$.:angel:

leadarrows
12-17-2002, 09:51 PM
I use to work part time for a friend that had a really good account. I knew my friendís wife wanted him to take another job with benefits. I did all the work on this account for a two year period. The day finally came and my friend quit this account and recommended me to take it over. I thought I was the logical choice as I had been taking care of it any way and the customer and I were agreeable to carry on with the current arrangement. Well the customers wife decided a friend of hers was going to get the account and that was that. Now not only do I not have the account I have lost my job. I wanted to kill somebody. My wife told me to cool it reminded me that god never shuts a door with out opening another one. Well thank GOD I listened to her because a week later we got our first good account and have been self employed ,and loving it ever sense. Oh and by the way the guy who let his wife do that to us died. His son took over the business and guess who he called to service his new business?? Thatís right the people who kept there cool and didnít yell at or try to get even with his dad.
Do you think I would have this account now if I would have gotten into it with this guys Dad???
Getting even is stupid because it only runes your reputation. What good is that? If some one cheats you out of your pay always take them to court. In our local newspaper small claims that are filed get posted. Most business accounts especially wont pull that crap if they know everybody's going to see it and if you have a good but tough business reputation.

Lawn Specialties
12-17-2002, 11:04 PM
So how does ordering pizza and not picking it up get you paid???? Now your as bad if not worse than the guy that stiffed you.

bobbygedd
12-17-2002, 11:41 PM
its kind of like this: if someone breaks into your home, steals your t.v, vcr, computor......and 2 months later the police find out who did it. do you press charges? i bet you would. but, will sending this guy to jail get you your stuff back? nope

bilbo7021
12-18-2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
its kind of like this: if someone breaks into your home, steals your t.v, vcr, computor......and 2 months later the police find out who did it. do you press charges? i bet you would. but, will sending this guy to jail get you your stuff back? nope

that's what they call Restitution.......you don't get the stuff back, but you at least get paid for what was stolen (most of the time).

and usually if the police are involved, there's a blurb about it in the news someplace. so even if nothing happened, the pizza guy gets some not so good publicity over the cops having to be involved.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-18-2002, 03:03 AM
While you all bicker about how he did things and handeled the situation.

I want to know was there a contract?

If so you could have played the ultimate revenge, collecting your money in court!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is how I get my revenge.

Albemarle Lawn
12-18-2002, 10:14 AM
Or better yet burn the place down. Midnight Lightning.

Andrew S
12-18-2002, 12:02 PM
looking at lawn n gardens last message I think that perhaps it was all done in the heat of the moment.

We all make mistakes in all aspects of business,learn from them and move on.

thankyou all,I have learn't a great deal from you all since I have joined lawnsite and wish you all a great xmas.

thanks

Andrew

bilbo7021
12-18-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
While you all bicker about how he did things and handeled the situation.

I want to know was there a contract?

If so you could have played the ultimate revenge, collecting your money in court!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is how I get my revenge.

Ok, how would you do a contract for winter snow removal on sidewalks anyhow? There's almost no way to predict how much snow anyone will get.

bubble boy
12-18-2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by bilbo7021
Ok, how would you do a contract for winter snow removal on sidewalks anyhow? There's almost no way to predict how much snow anyone will get.

Easy. same way you do any contract for snow. with a sidewalk, might be less money.

per push- bill after each event

seasonal- use avg pushes a year to determine pricing

Easy.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-18-2002, 03:01 PM
Simple outline in the contract what you will provide, how you will accomplish it, prices, and payment terms.

Then you have a binding agreement showing what what said, and how everything will be done.

Whether you charge per an event or a seasonal policy, it will all be written and very hard to contest.