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View Full Version : Local LCO unions?


FrankenScagMachines
12-16-2002, 04:29 PM
I was wondering if there is a such thing or if it could be created. Seems we could use one around here because even the pros are not charging near what you guys say to charge. Maybe it's just our market but I was thinking if there is a union organization that you can hire to creat a Lawncare/landscaper's union then we could benefit by banding together and keeping prices up like gas stations do :D
Think it might work? Does this already exist? Thanks,
Eric

JimLewis
12-16-2002, 04:39 PM
Heck no! And if they ever formed one I'd take immediate steps to make our company a closed-shop company, disallowing any union involvement. And if for some reason my employees ever formed a union against me and went on strike, I SWEAR I'd fire every one of their asses and start all over again with new employees.

It's funny; when companies get together and collectively set prices, that's called an illegal monopoly. But when workers get together and collectively demand set wages, that's called a legal union.

Whatever. If you like unions, fine. But I can't stand them. And I'll never deal with them. I'd rather lose half of my company and money re-structuring than I would let my employees start taking control of things.

J&R
12-16-2002, 05:02 PM
If that happened you could be charge with price fixing

NC Big Daddy
12-16-2002, 05:03 PM
What Jim said!............!

rodfather
12-16-2002, 05:03 PM
Ditto...jimlewis...I don't have to say another word.

Runner
12-16-2002, 05:53 PM
SHUT UP! And moderator - please close this thread.:dizzy:

therainman
12-16-2002, 05:59 PM
why would you want to close the thread???
legit ??? from bhb...
I dont think you have to price fix for lcos to for an association to help with ad costs of the general benifts of using a lis, ins, reputable and respectable biz


my .02

shawn

JimLewis
12-16-2002, 06:21 PM
** SNIP **

bilbo7021
12-16-2002, 06:27 PM
An assoc. (not a union) might work, if it were regional or state wide. But I doubt a local one would work. It would cost too much to do the PR.

Oh, and BHB, gas stations don't fix their prices all by themselves. They all make about .05 cents on the dollar (maybe) above what they are charged by the bigger oil companies. That would be the same theory as we have to charge $1 per minute cause we want to. They pay the suppliers prices and such just the same as we do. And you wouldn't believe the taxes they fork out for just selling gasoline; and the regulatory fees for having "hazardus materials" onsite.

FrankenScagMachines
12-16-2002, 06:31 PM
Whoa! Wait! I didn't mean it that way, I meant to benefit us the owners. Ok i guess I dont' know jack about unions but I mean an organization that would make sure professional LCO's are treated fairly in that it would keep prices up and make sure we're not infiltrated by scrubs, keep up customer's expectations, etc. Not to make sure our employees get treated fair, so we get treated fair, get it? Maybe this isn't for a union I don't know but some sort of organization that would have benefits for LCO's so they would join and we could keep standards and prices up. Think it would work? Sorry if I misused the word "union", but what would you call it??? Thanks,
Eric

Runner
12-16-2002, 06:32 PM
Ok, guys, hold it! I was only being humorous about the closing of the thread thing! YOu know me better than that! And when Bushhog Boy reads this, I hope he realizes I wasn't really meaning for him to shut up.... ;)
No, thre is no reason to actually CLOSE it...Sorry guys.

JimLewis
12-16-2002, 06:36 PM
After re-reading the initial post - I think I get what you are saying. At first glance, I thought you were talking about employees forming unions. I didn't read it all. Now, I see you were talking about LCOs banding together to set prices.

Totally illegal, my friend. And rightly so. In a free market system each buyer and seller should agree on their own prices / wages regardless of what others might pay or charge. It's the essense of the free market system. And I love it that way.

I mean, sure it'd be great to set our wages so we could all live like kings. But if that were legal, we'd have that done to US by all of the other companies out there. How'd you like to pay 2-3 times as much for your garbage service, water, carpet cleaning, groceries, and every other product or service you use? Not cool!

FrankenScagMachines
12-16-2002, 06:37 PM
bilbo, we replied at the same time......
yes you understand what i mean, an association is the right word thank you. What is "PR"?
It's always been a family joke about the gas stations banding together to raise prices up $0.50 overnite, etc lol. We always kid about them doing that. It would have made sense that they would have "associations" like that.... anyway I was just using that as an example. I just want something to raise and set standards around here! You guys act like I'm crazy for saying all we can get is $30 an acre for residentials... I agree it should be more but that's all anyone's gonna pay for it. I too would like to see it higher. Any other suggestions as to what can be done about it???
Thanks,
Eric

Soupy
12-16-2002, 08:20 PM
Around here the Oil company calls the gas station to suggest what the price should be. They call every time their is a change in price, This could be daily. The Gas station owner has a very small margin to play with. If they go to high it pisses the oil company off and same goes with pricing to low (as a loss leader product)

My dad used to be in the gas station business and the company that supplied his gas also owned about 6 Gas Marts in town. If he went to low they would threaten to cut him off. Sometimes he would even try to go as low as selling gas for a penny cheaper then he paid for it just to gain business, but like I said they put a stop to that real fast. Oh by the way this only works if the oil company actually owns the pumps, thus haveing your arms tied as to shopping elsewere.

So, yes, some gas stations are setting prices

Soupy

bilbo7021
12-16-2002, 10:12 PM
BHB, "PR" is short for Public Relations. It's what the big corporations and others use to get the word out on how good they are etc. as compaired to straight out advertising. Like if you ever see people getting an award from some charity, or some company does some great thing, and you read the article in the paper......that's PR (Public Relations). Or an even better one, is when a new business starts up, opens it's doors, has an anniversary, and there's a bunch of print in the paper about it, or there's some special event to commemorate it......that's PR. It's basically "feel good" advertising without being advertising. The consumer reads about the event/service, or sees something relating to the event/service, and "feels good" about using the products that ABC Co. provides.

Phishook
12-17-2002, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by BushHogBoy
I was wondering if there is a such thing or if it could be created. Seems we could use one around here because even the pros are not charging near what you guys say to charge. Maybe it's just our market but I was thinking if there is a union organization that you can hire to creat a Lawncare/landscaper's union then we could benefit by banding together and keeping prices up like gas stations do :D
Think it might work? Does this already exist? Thanks,
Eric

Well, your looking for a groop of professional lawn/landscapers to work together to set industry standards in pricing, quality, ect.ect.

Right?

Try lawnsite.com (http://lawnsite.com) Then tell the others in your area about it. :D :D

Be COOL if I had a LAWN SITE decal for my truck!!
Hint, Hint Chuck.

nu83
12-17-2002, 02:17 AM
In a completly free market system companies would be allowed to "price fix" since there would be no government control of business. But I get what you meant.

To Bushhog, local assoc. are are good idea.

Richard Martin
12-17-2002, 05:06 AM
Jim Lewis wrote:

Totally illegal, my friend. And rightly so. In a free market system each buyer and seller should agree on their own prices / wages regardless of what others might pay or charge. It's the essense of the free market system. And I love it that way.

In theory that's how it works but in real life there's a lot of price fixing and they're getting away with it. On a national scale. Go to the Jegs website (www.jegs.com) and see how much a Ford 5.0 Cobra intake costs. Then go to the Summit website (www.summitracing.com) and check the price on the same manifold. There is a 4 cent difference on a part that costs 400 dollars. There are thousands of items from 2 different companies that are priced at the exact same discount. I see this all over the Internet on a wide variety of items. Everybody has the same price. Free market my *****, these people are price fixing.

crawdad
12-17-2002, 07:24 AM
If we got together in a local association, and decided we were gonna get a good wage, the customers would be sure to hire non-members. I have people answering newspaper ads, ask me if I am fulltime or part-time. They want part-timers. With 20" mowers. Whatever.
Crawdad

I would never belong to a group that would accept someone like me as a member. -- Groucho Marx

Gravely_Man
12-17-2002, 01:43 PM
Great ideas as all ideas are good. It will never work. It will not work just as people currently hire people without any experience, insurance, business license or proof of company tax number. They will always be people more then willing to do the illegal thing (see above) and more then enough people hiring them to do work.

Gravely_Man

grass chaser
12-17-2002, 03:26 PM
there is an association PLCAA(PROFESSIONAL LAWN CARE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA)

FrankenScagMachines
12-17-2002, 03:35 PM
grasschaser, sounds good but it won't really help locally will it? I mean in a town of 38,000 .... I just don't think I could get everyone else to do it. Have a link for that? Thanks,
Eric

Shuter
12-17-2002, 04:44 PM
I f you tried hard enough you may be able to do something with the laborors union and if you have somekind of equipment including skid steers you can use the operating engineers union. Any trucks would then be driven by teamsters.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-17-2002, 08:00 PM
You mean an asotiation or an aliance...

Union is a bad word.

wmsland
12-17-2002, 08:15 PM
BHB, what makes you (a 15 year old ) think that you are entitled to the same benefits of larger companies that have real overheads to deal with. I work by myself and have a overhead to pay and it really upsets me when I hear the kid down the block thinks he is entitled to the same wage that I earn.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-17-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by wmsland
BHB, what makes you (a 15 year old ) think that you are entitled to the same benefits of larger companies that have real overheads to deal with. I work by myself and have a overhead to pay and it really upsets me when I hear the kid down the block thinks he is entitled to the same wage that I earn.

No offence but now why don't we put the same question on YOU.

What makes you think being solo you deserve the same wages as a company with a whole lot more overhead and emploees'?

wmsland
12-17-2002, 08:28 PM
I don't think that I am entitled to the same benefits. I would be out of business If I charged what the larger companies charged . I know what my over head is and work from there and in most cases my rates are less than the larger companies but I still make a nice profit.

LAWNGODFATHER
12-17-2002, 08:35 PM
Not the same thing.

Mostly the small young inexperianced/new comers are the ones who can drive the prices down so that the bigger dogs have to follow suit.

I would rather see them, you and a host of others charge considerably more than you do so that the larger LCO's can stay in the same range the smaller cats are in.

The price you are mostly intitled is more or less what the market will bare, not what you charge.

In a lot of cases you can get more than what your market will pay you, but you have to make a name for your self first.

Also the smaller cats have more leaway of being able to charge more due to the extremely less overhead they have.

Drive the market price up and it will bare more money.

Phishook
12-18-2002, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
Not the same thing.

Mostly the small young inexperianced/new comers are the ones who can drive the prices down so that the bigger dogs have to follow suit.

I would rather see them, you and a host of others charge considerably more than you do so that the larger LCO's can stay in the same range the smaller cats are in.

The price you are mostly intitled is more or less what the market will bare, not what you charge.

In a lot of cases you can get more than what your market will pay you, but you have to make a name for your self first.

Also the smaller cats have more leaway of being able to charge more due to the extremely less overhead they have.

Drive the market price up and it will bare more money.

So true. That's about a three year time line for me. But now I have fewer clients and more profit.