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kirk1701
04-18-2012, 01:14 AM
Hey Everyone

I'm spraying fruit tree's and one of the fungicides I'm told I need from the contact I've been working with at the Dept. of Horticulture is Captan 50W to go along with Immunox.

I have the captan but it's stayed on a shelf due to laziness I admit it :confused: and not knowing how to mix this stuff because its powder and mixed by weight. Plus, the labels all go off mixing 2 to 300 gallon at a time.

Ok, here's the label the guy sent me:
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld394019.pdf

And here's a link he sent to mix different herbicides, insecticides and fungicides but even this gets confusing
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Horticulture/masabni/Publications/HO-83.pdf

I just need to know how to go about getting how much product per 1 gallon?

Thanks

Think Green
04-18-2012, 09:09 AM
You need to know how much product you are needing.....lets say per acre. Lets say you intend on spraying an acres worth of foliage or whatever. The product is 50W, so take the number want to apply X 100 / 50 (Should be 2 lbs. per acre in how ever much water you apply) This is figuring in 1 lb. of product per acre to. You can substitute what the label says instead of 1`. Most of my products indicate x amount of lbs. per 100 gallons of water.

kirk1701
04-18-2012, 09:46 AM
You need to know how much product you are needing.....lets say per acre. Lets say you intend on spraying an acres worth of foliage or whatever. The product is 50W, so take the number want to apply X 100 / 50 (Should be 2 lbs. per acre in how ever much water you apply) This is figuring in 1 lb. of product per acre to. You can substitute what the label says instead of 1`. Most of my products indicate x amount of lbs. per 100 gallons of water.

Ok 4 to 8 Lbs per acre is what I see so but don't see how you arive at a number of ounces which is has to be per gallon Think Green?

I'd go with the 4 or 5 Lbs per acre I guess.

all things green
04-18-2012, 12:59 PM
16 0z. in a lb buddy...do the math.....base it off of a hundred gallons....if it is 6 lbs / 100 gal.....then take 6lbs x 16 oz.....and that will tell you how many total ounces there are in 100 gal.....then you can do the math and figure it out to the gallon...basic stuff you should know if you have a liscence...just saying.....
:hammerhead:

RigglePLC
04-18-2012, 09:57 PM
I suggest use the directions for dichondra in California. That is, 3.2 ounces in one gallon of water.

Or assume your tree is 10 by 10 feet, a hundred sqft
Divide by 43,560 to get .00229 of an acre
Times 8 pounds to get.0183 lbs
Times 16 to get .2938 ounces Captan per 100 sqft. (Suited for small tree). Or...
That would be about 2.938 ounces per 1000 sqft. (Suited for bigger tree, and about one gallon of water.)

kirk1701
04-18-2012, 11:52 PM
I suggest use the directions for dichondra in California. That is, 3.2 ounces in one gallon of water.

Or assume your tree is 10 by 10 feet, a hundred sqft
Divide by 43,560 to get .00229 of an acre
Times 8 pounds to get.0183 lbs
Times 16 to get .2938 ounces Captan per 100 sqft. (Suited for small tree). Or...
That would be about 2.938 ounces per 1000 sqft. (Suited for bigger tree, and about one gallon of water.)

Thanks Riggle, I don't understand the math but trust your's and your judgement http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Smilies%20Hut/thanks.gif

I sprayed today but it was way way off, 3 tablespoons to 4 gallon of water. I'll adjust in two weeks to your 3.2 ounces/gallon

kirk1701
04-19-2012, 12:24 PM
I suggest use the directions for dichondra in California. That is, 3.2 ounces in one gallon of water.

Or assume your tree is 10 by 10 feet, a hundred sqft
Divide by 43,560 to get .00229 of an acre
Times 8 pounds to get.0183 lbs
Times 16 to get .2938 ounces Captan per 100 sqft. (Suited for small tree). Or...
That would be about 2.938 ounces per 1000 sqft. (Suited for bigger tree, and about one gallon of water.)

Riggle
It was late when I replied and didn't catch the "ounces" is that by weight? Because this stuff is a powder :rolleyes:

Yatt
04-19-2012, 05:05 PM
I mix 30 gallons of spray for my orchard at a time. For this amount I use 1/2 # of Captan for a contact fungicide and 1 1/3 oz of Ralley. For bugs 1/2 # of Imidan.

8 oz of Li-700 as a surfactant and acidificant/buffering agent, (we have high ph and this combats hydrolisis.

Since I have Honey crisp, 1/2 gallon of a 10% calcium supplement which they need to combat bitter pit.

Think Green
04-19-2012, 10:06 PM
kirk1701

you have multiply by to get.
lb/acre .367 oz/1000 ft2
lb/acre .023 #1000 ft2
lb/acre .0023 #100 ft2
lb/acre .0306 x width oz/1000 ft

kirk1701
04-20-2012, 12:37 AM
kirk1701

you have multiply by to get.
lb/acre .367 oz/1000 ft2
lb/acre .023 #1000 ft2
lb/acre .0023 #100 ft2
lb/acre .0306 x width oz/1000 ft

Thanks Think Green
The guy from University of Kentucky, Dept. of Horticulture called me tonight and got the info I need. As I've said its a powder and converting this from weight to tablespoons per gallon seems to be the headache.

For Apples, Peaches and Cherries: 4-8 Lbs /acre equals 1.6 to 3.3 tablespoons /gallon.

Sorry but the math is a bit over my head, I'm sure if it was explained to me I'd understand. Like Lbs/1000 or Gal/1000 I get and given a number of ounces per gallon I get, but converting it to dry weight and all this 40 gallon to 1 cup ;) and the math we'll :cry:

all things green
04-20-2012, 01:21 AM
a table spoon dry weight is approximately 1/2 ounce for future reference...That is approximate. Always a good rule of thumb unless you have very accurate scales.... my scale is better in larger quantities of weight....

Yatt
04-20-2012, 07:19 PM
I suggest use the directions for dichondra in California. That is, 3.2 ounces in one gallon of water.

Or assume your tree is 10 by 10 feet, a hundred sqft
Divide by 43,560 to get .00229 of an acre
Times 8 pounds to get.0183 lbs
Times 16 to get .2938 ounces Captan per 100 sqft. (Suited for small tree). Or...
That would be about 2.938 ounces per 1000 sqft. (Suited for bigger tree, and about one gallon of water.)

Actually that is simplistic way of calculating.

For Midwestern and Eastern orchards, the aim is to apply 1 gallon of spray solution per 1450 CUBIC feet or orchard foliage. The number of cubic feet in an orchard is obtained by multiplying the tree height times the tree width times the lineal feet in the orchard.

RigglePLC
04-20-2012, 09:01 PM
Thanks, Yatt. Good info. Do you mean...one gallon would cover a tree 14.5 feet tall, by 10 feet wide by 10 feet long?

Of course, a lot depends on the kind of equipment. Air blast? Skid sprayer? Back pack? Hand sprayer? How much water does it take to cover the tree?

Yatt
04-21-2012, 09:09 AM
Thanks, Yatt. Good info. Do you mean...one gallon would cover a tree 14.5 feet tall, by 10 feet wide by 10 feet long?

Of course, a lot depends on the kind of equipment. Air blast? Skid sprayer? Back pack? Hand sprayer? How much water does it take to cover the tree?

This is going to devolve into a complicated discussion. :sleeping:

Before I start, my experience would tell me a gallon would cover at least two trees of the size you mentioned using a tree wand sprayer at 125 PSI. I have just reduced the canopy height in mine as they were much taller than your example, perhaps 25' and a gallon would easily cover a tree that size. This discussion is on solution and not concentration. In my orchard last year I used 30 gallons to spray to cover 37 trees prior to the reduction in size. Here is what they look like right now after pruning, (for scale, the ladder is 10'.

http://i39.tinypic.com/35cqyqe.jpg

Same tree different view, BTW the vacant area behind it is getting 27 more trees next week. I just built a 8 strand high tensile fence in that area to protect the trees from deer.

http://i44.tinypic.com/zkk4yv.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/zsp01.jpg



The paragraph I quoted is from the "Michigan fruit management guide" by the Michigan State Extension office.

In order to cut down on a bunch of typing/plagiarizing, here is an article on tree row volume calculation.
http://community.gorge.net/hrgsa/TRV.htm

The amount also varies due tot he time of year in the application.
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/apple/orchardguide/TRV.pdf



This pertains to air blast sprayers.
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/pecanbugs/Spraying.html

kirk1701
04-21-2012, 10:36 AM
Wow Yatt, your stuff is a lot bigger scale then mine.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2667401657723.101960.1636527708&type=3&l=21a8e24d0a

As of yesterday I found a couple peaches like this, I was told by my contact at the University of Kentucky to start Liquid Seven for plum curculio damage:

Yatt
04-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Wow Yatt, your stuff is a lot bigger scale then mine.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2667401657723.101960.1636527708&type=3&l=21a8e24d0a

As of yesterday I found a couple peaches like this, I was told by my contact at the University of Kentucky to start Liquid Seven for plum curculio damage:

Let me guess. The little fruit are just starting to develop, then fall off the tree?

Plum Curculio do that to apples too. You need to get on a spray plan IMMEDIATELY after petal fall. I use Imidan.

I would also hold the size of the trees down too for two reason:
1. Easier to spray and pick
2. Create scaffolds at 60 degrees to the trunk because they are more productive and stronger to hold the weight of the fruit. Mine got too big and I had to pare them back. But then they are 21 years old too.

kirk1701
04-21-2012, 06:30 PM
Let me guess. The little fruit are just starting to develop, then fall off the tree?

Plum Curculio do that to apples too. You need to get on a spray plan IMMEDIATELY after petal fall. I use Imidan.

I would also hold the size of the trees down too for two reason:
1. Easier to spray and pick
2. Create scaffolds at 60 degrees to the trunk because they are more productive and stronger to hold the weight of the fruit. Mine got too big and I had to pare them back. But then they are 21 years old too.

I did last fall, probably trim back further this fall.

Not falling off yet, did last spring due to this and I wasn't as vigilant with spraying as I have been this year. This is the only two peaches I could find with damage.

As of to date:
February 3, 2012
Sprayed Bonide All Seasons Horticultural & Dormant Spray Oil on all the peach, apple and cherry tree’s with good coverage. Used 4 gallon at the recommended 2.5 oz per gallon.


February 17, 2012
With dry weather in forecast at least for 24 hours mixed the Bonide All Seasons Horticultural & Dormant Spray Oil (2.5 oz./Gal) along with the Liquid Copper fungicide (2 oz./Gal) together and sprayed at once all the peach, apple and cherry tree’s with good coverage. Used 3 gallon which did the job but was just enough, mix 4 gallon next time to be safe.


April 3, 2012
With some beautiful dime size peaches and ¼ inch diameter cherries sprayed for fungus and insects with Spectracide Immunox for fungus 1 oz./gal & Spectracide Malathion for insects 1 oz./gal. mixed both together and sprayed at once. Used 3 gallon this time but add another gallon next time to include apple tree which is still blooming.


April 17, 2012
Repeat application of Immunox and Malathion. Used 3 gallon which covered everything including grape vine.


April 18, 2012
Was told to include Captan 50W in the mix so sprayed separately, used 3 tablespoons for 4 gallon. Was told ½ tablespoon per gallon so improvised to be safe. Next spraying, include with Immunox and Malathion.

Yatt
04-21-2012, 07:06 PM
Hi Kirk,:dancing:

Well I see you are up on the spraying this year and keeping records. The only thing I would add is more info on the weather, temp and where the trees are in regard to dorman, silver tip, green shoot, pre-pink, bloom, and petal fall.

You can probably spray the captan with the malthion at the same time. The 14 day schedule is OK, but may have to be more frequent when hot humid weather starts.

kirk1701
04-21-2012, 11:43 PM
Hi Kirk,:dancing:

Well I see you are up on the spraying this year and keeping records. The only thing I would add is more info on the weather, temp and where the trees are in regard to dorman, silver tip, green shoot, pre-pink, bloom, and petal fall.

You can probably spray the captan with the malthion at the same time. The 14 day schedule is OK, but may have to be more frequent when hot humid weather starts.

Yes, starting Seven ASAP then in the next spray schedule the Immunox and Malathion, plus Captan and seven will be sprayed all at once.

Yatt
04-22-2012, 09:49 AM
Yes, starting Seven ASAP then in the next spray schedule the Immunox and Malathion, plus Captan and seven will be sprayed all at once.

FWIW, Captan is not compatible with dormant oil spray. I use Manzate instaid on the first application @ silver tip/green shoot.

kirk1701
04-22-2012, 11:21 AM
FWIW, Captan is not compatible with dormant oil spray. I use Manzate instaid on the first application @ silver tip/green shoot.

Before I go buying more box store fungicides and insecticides I might give Southern Ag a call tomorrow. :drinkup:

Yatt
04-22-2012, 11:52 AM
Before I go buying more box store fungicides and insecticides I might give Southern Ag a call tomorrow. :drinkup:

There is nothing in a big box store that would interest me in regards to chemicals.

Around here I go to Crop Production Services. They specialize in apples around here and have been extremely helpful in regards to advice and having the proper things you will need.

I'll shoot you a PM later. I am going to spray the first cover spray on my apples right now and then caliberate a Lesco spray gun I just purchased.:waving:

kirk1701
04-22-2012, 12:18 PM
There is nothing in a big box store that would interest me in regards to chemicals.

Around here I go to Crop Production Services. They specialize in apples around here and have been extremely helpful in regards to advice and having the proper things you will need.

I'll shoot you a PM later. I am going to spray the first cover spray on my apples right now and then caliberate a Lesco spray gun I just purchased.:waving:

Thanks Yatt, that would be appreciated. A spray schedule and what to use and when would be helpful. I know the guy with the University of Kentucky means well, but is only providing info redily available to consumers.

kirk1701
04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
There is nothing in a big box store that would interest me in regards to chemicals.

Around here I go to Crop Production Services. They specialize in apples around here and have been extremely helpful in regards to advice and having the proper things you will need.

I'll shoot you a PM later. I am going to spray the first cover spray on my apples right now and then caliberate a Lesco spray gun I just purchased.:waving:

Yatt, I tried to PM you and Yes I got your messaage in my profile.

So, here is most but not all of what I tried to send, maybe someone else can clearify this part up?

1. Yatt has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove Yatt from the recipient list and send the message again.


I'm wondering if you have to have so many posts before you can use it or not? Anyhow, click on the username in any thread and should get a dropdown box with options which include View public profile, Send PM, find all post by member and add to contact list.

I checked for Imidan on Southern Ag's site here
http://www.southernag.com/cm_fungicides.html

They have it but I bet its an arm and a leg as I have heard of it on the board before and used on lawns also for fungus but I fail to see how it would help for plum curculio which is an insect right?

all things green
04-23-2012, 02:57 PM
Imidan is a insecticide....a very good one for fruit trees.....Personally, the best fruit tree mix i came up with was....
Imidan, Nova and Dithane.....Imidan is a very HOT insecticide, but super effective for fruit insects...coddling moth, apple maggot, circullo....pretty much every pest possible on a fruit tree. The Nova and the dithane were a great combo of fungicides.....You just have to make sure that the version you have is labeled for fruit trees.....They are sticklers like that.

all things green
04-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Also don't forget to use your spreader / stickers in your mix....makes chemicals up to 50% more effective....!

kirk1701
04-23-2012, 04:15 PM
Imidan is a insecticide....a very good one for fruit trees.....Personally, the best fruit tree mix i came up with was....
Imidan, Nova and Dithane.....Imidan is a very HOT insecticide, but super effective for fruit insects...coddling moth, apple maggot, circullo....pretty much every pest possible on a fruit tree. The Nova and the dithane were a great combo of fungicides.....You just have to make sure that the version you have is labeled for fruit trees.....They are sticklers like that.

How come it is listed at Southern Ag as a "Commercial Fungicides"?

40514 IMIDAN 70 WSP

I'm going to give them a call now for a price and get some more info.

kirk1701
04-23-2012, 05:34 PM
Ok guys I hit a brick wall,
$10.44 per Lb ok fine but its hazardous to ship and was going to have to be shipped via freight??? :confused:

Shipping was going to run close to $70 so there went that idea but any of you know if that is the case? Is it hazardous to ship, the first guy I spoke with and got the price was ready to place the order but when I called back we'll someone threw a can in the fan

kirk1701
04-23-2012, 06:07 PM
Yep, I guess I'm back to liquid seven guys. I called Southern Ag back and double checked after finding the stuff on E-Bay :laugh:

I'm not going to pay $80 for it though and thats what it would be after frieght or bought off e-bay

Plus, from Gowan's MSDS
DOT Classification
UN 3077, Environmentally Hazardous Substance, Solid, N.O.S., (Phosmet), 9, PG III

I tried Southern States locally and they want me to buy a dam case which is what I figured, SS has always been a rip off or don't know anything 90% of the time.

all things green
04-23-2012, 09:06 PM
I know when i had even a flake of imidan on my truck I had to carry Shipping papers for it....even so the RQ on Phosmet is super, super low.....Still and all best fruit insecticide i have ever used.

Yatt
04-23-2012, 10:42 PM
Also don't forget to use your spreader / stickers in your mix....makes chemicals up to 50% more effective....!

So are you talking a non ionic surfactant and acidifying/buffering agent such as Li-700? We have pretty high PH in the water so I always use it to alleviate hydrolysis of the insecticide and fungicide.

Yatt
04-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Ok guys I hit a brick wall,
$10.44 per Lb ok fine but its hazardous to ship and was going to have to be shipped via freight??? :confused:

Shipping was going to run close to $70 so there went that idea but any of you know if that is the case? Is it hazardous to ship, the first guy I spoke with and got the price was ready to place the order but when I called back we'll someone threw a can in the fan

Off the top of my head, seem like I paid $50 or $60 bucks and it was either four or five pounds I can't remember. CPS has it in stock and there is no shipping.

I'll know shortly, I used the last of Sunday on the first cover spray for the apples.

all things green
04-24-2012, 12:35 PM
non-ionic surfactant.....PH is a local issue, here the PH is 7or a touch less...not so much an issue...But those are all things you need to consider based on local knowledge...SO if u need to buffer then , u buffer..I was speaking strictly about spreader/ stickers....

kirk1701
04-27-2012, 10:01 AM
Off the top of my head, seem like I paid $50 or $60 bucks and it was either four or five pounds I can't remember. CPS has it in stock and there is no shipping.

I'll know shortly, I used the last of Sunday on the first cover spray for the apples.

Hey Yatt
Check my profile messages I think that should solve your problem with the PM

kirk1701
05-07-2012, 05:01 PM
Hey guys

Totally new problem, just started about 5 or 6 days ago.

Contacted the guy at University of KY Dept. of Horticulture and at the time was told bacterial spot disease but think this is way past bacterial spot disease now?

Seems like all the leaves are falling off the peach tree's but the fruit don't seem to be affected? :confused:

Idea's, sugestions??

RigglePLC
05-07-2012, 05:18 PM
Does not look like bacterial leaf spot to me.
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville/disease_descriptions/ombactsp.html
However, it could be spray injury. I think the above source mentions injury from Captan. I don't understand--why would they suggest Captan if it was so likely to cause injury?

kirk1701
05-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Does not look like bacterial leaf spot to me.
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville/disease_descriptions/ombactsp.html
However, it could be spray injury. I think the above source mentions injury from Captan. I don't understand--why would they suggest Captan if it was so likely to cause injury?

Riggle, http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Smilies%20Hut/thanks.gif
I had my suspicions it was captan but had nothing to prove it because it started shortly after I sprayed last Tuesday.

Some April fools juke hu?
April 1, 2012
• Repeat application of Immunox and Malathion along with Seven at a rate of 3 oz per gallon and Captan at 6.5 Tablespoons per 2 gallon mixed all together and spayed at once.

kirk1701
05-07-2012, 05:51 PM
Yep, even makes more sence now why the grape vine looks like it too got hit with herbicide drift and I put all the herbs in the cabinet long time ago.

I sprayed it with the captan also. :hammerhead:

kirk1701
05-08-2012, 12:53 AM
Does not look like bacterial leaf spot to me.
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville/disease_descriptions/ombactsp.html
However, it could be spray injury. I think the above source mentions injury from Captan. I don't understand--why would they suggest Captan if it was so likely to cause injury?

Riggle, got a response back from my contact at the U of KY and sent him the same pics I posted and more.

He still says bacterial leaf spot.
The reason for the captan I am told is its the best choice for home growers that still takes care of most fungus.

And YES that was after I sent him the link to the PDF you posted and asked directly if it could be mistaken for Captan injury

kirk1701
05-26-2012, 01:00 PM
Does not look like bacterial leaf spot to me.
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville/disease_descriptions/ombactsp.html
However, it could be spray injury. I think the above source mentions injury from Captan. I don't understand--why would they suggest Captan if it was so likely to cause injury?

Well first confirmation I have its not captan, finally found a label with a bit more specific and clear wording on the mix. He has me spraying 6.5 tablespoons to 4 gallon.

This comes off a southern ag label which is a lot stronger mix then I'm spraying:
PEACH: (Brown Rot, Scab)-Use 2 level tablespoons
per gallon of water in pink, full bloom, petal fall, shuck
shed, cover and preharvest stages. Spray 1 to 2 pints for
small/dwarf trees, 1 to 2 quarts per medium size tree,
and 1 to 3 gallons for large/mature trees. Repeat
applications at 7 to 14 day intervals as needed to
maintain cover. Continue applications through harvest if
conditions favor brown rot.

RigglePLC
05-27-2012, 05:05 PM
If it is spray injury--you should be able to find subtle "tells". It should be worse nearest where you were standing. and less injury on the back side of the tree or anyplace that is difficult to access. Gaps in coverage should be visible.

Bacterial spot usually develops more slowly and the new spots have a water soaked ring around the spot. Bacteria need a previous infection to start from. And the bactieria need warm moist rainy misty weather. Wish I could help more.

kirk1701
05-27-2012, 07:18 PM
If it is spray injury--you should be able to find subtle "tells". It should be worse nearest where you were standing. and less injury on the back side of the tree or anyplace that is difficult to access. Gaps in coverage should be visible.

Bacterial spot usually develops more slowly and the new spots have a water soaked ring around the spot. Bacteria need a previous infection to start from. And the bactieria need warm moist rainy misty weather. Wish I could help more.

Thanks again Riggle,
Yea, think Bacterial spot fit for one I remember the tree doing this last year now.

But no where as bad this time of year???
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/225416_1644773332654_8382317_n.jpg

I was told to start the copper fungicide when the leaves fall to prevent this so we'll see next year, plus getting rid of this cocktail of Immunox, Malathion, Liquid seven and Captan and finding me some Imidan for next season.

kirk1701
08-24-2013, 05:02 PM
Hey guys

Thought I'd come back and update this thread with some findings.

I lost all my peaches this year, all fell off :confused:

Started the season off with the same spray schedule, think I posted about it and nothing changed. No apparent reason for the peaches to fall and never did figure it out.

So, Mid July the tree's were beautiful, no leaves falling off and no yellow spots like I posted in the pictures in the last two pages of this thread. What changed?

I'm not spraying the tree's that's what changed.

What I also found out was the captan I was using was too much, well DUHHH!!! Riggle you done mentioned that last year but I was going by what the Horticulturalist at the university of Kentucky was advising me 6.5 Tablespoons to 2 gallon. Even after the peaches fell off this spring I questioned the captan again and he said No, that didn't do it. :nono:
Further questioning it yielded the fact 6.5 Tablespoons was too much and I told him he was the one that gave me that info and when I questioned cutting back on it in 2012 I was told no, I'd be at risk of diseases????

Now, 1.6 Tablespoons to a gallon was the correct rate :confused:
Too F$%ken late now my peaches has fell off.

Mid July I decided WTF I'm going to test the captan at 1.5 Tablespoons per gallon and see if the leaves turn yellow:

 July 31
• With beautiful foliage on the peach trees and no signs of leaves falling off nor yellow spots originally thought to be bacteria spots. As a test before next season sprayed Malathion & Captan both separately at recommended rated each in separate locations on the peach trees to see if either would cause damage. Captan @ 1.5 Tbspoons to gallon on far right tree and Malathion 1 oz. to gallon on the tree in the middle.
 As of August 19 no leaves falling from either tree, no damage or yellowing and falling off of leaves and so no injury present. Think next year can start out with this rate of captan and be considered safe; 1.5 Tablespoons per gallon.


So why didn't the peaches fall off last spring?
I didn't start out using the captan right after the blooms fell that's why:
Must have given the peaches just enough time to mature enough to withstand that dose.

 April 3, 2012
• With some beautiful dime size peaches and ¼ inch diameter cherries sprayed for fungus and insects with Spectracide Immunox for fungus 1 oz./gal & Spectracide Malathion for insects 1 oz./gal. mixed both together and sprayed at once. Used 3 gallon this time but add another gallon next time to include apple tree which is still blooming.

 April 17, 2012
• Repeat application of Immunox and Malathion. Used 3 gallon which covered everything including grape vine.
 April 18, 2012
• Was told to include Captan 50W in the mix so sprayed separately, used 3 tablespoons for 4 gallon. Was told ½ tablespoon per gallon so improvised to be safe. Next spraying, include with Immunox and Malathion.

 April 24, 2012
• Due to what looks like plum curculio damage sprayed Seven concentrate at a rate of 3 oz per gallon to control damage. Next spraying, include with Immunox and Malathion and Captan. Used 3 gallon which covered peach and apple trees.

 May 1, 2012
• Repeat application of Immunox and Malathion along with seven at a rate of 3 oz per gallon and Captan at 6.5 Tablespoons per 2 gallon mixed all together and spayed at once.
 Note: Shortly after applying captan at this rate had leaves starting to turn brown and fall. Could be coincidence but was told this was bacteria spots but also hear possible Captan injury?? Next application cut captan back to 4 tablespoons/2 gallon.

 May 15, 2012
• Repeat application of Immunox and Malathion along with seven and Captan. On advice of John stayed with the 6.5 tablespoons of captan per 2 gallon. Only used two gallon as skipped spraying the cherry tree’s and grape vines. Only a few apples to spray and 3 peach tree’s.
 Notes: I would keep your Captan rate at 6.5 tablespoons per 2 gallons. If you get the rate too low you won’t get the control. Captan is a fungicide and will have not have any impact on bacterial diseases. John


So next year, 1.5 Tablespoons captan / gallon

greendoctor
08-25-2013, 03:17 AM
You never apply Captan with emulsifiable concentrate insecticides. That just begs for leaf burn. 1 oz per gallon of Malathion is way too much. Try more like 1/3 oz. 6 tablespoons of Captan is 3 lb per hundred gallons. That is fine if your are spraying with an air blast or mist blower type sprayer where the concentration of chemical can be 4 x what it is through a spray to wet application. Assume that a hand sprayer is applying the equivalent of 400 gallons per acre.

What is used on fruit trees is very much like the cocktails that used to be needed for spraying roses. Apply that much Captan or Malathion at one time and the effect would be worse than any disease or pest.

kirk1701
08-25-2013, 09:02 AM
You never apply Captan with emulsifiable concentrate insecticides. That just begs for leaf burn. 1 oz per gallon of Malathion is way too much. Try more like 1/3 oz. 6 tablespoons of Captan is 3 lb per hundred gallons. That is fine if your are spraying with an air blast or mist blower type sprayer where the concentration of chemical can be 4 x what it is through a spray to wet application. Assume that a hand sprayer is applying the equivalent of 400 gallons per acre.

What is used on fruit trees is very much like the cocktails that used to be needed for spraying roses. Apply that much Captan or Malathion at one time and the effect would be worse than any disease or pest.

Thanks Greendoc,
Question though, the Malathion, that's label rate 1 oz/ gal???

But I did have my suspicions which is why it and the captan was sprayed separately just to see end of July. No damage, see notes.

greendoctor
08-25-2013, 03:55 PM
1 oz per gallon Malathion is way over label rate. 1/3 oz or 2 teaspoons and never with Captan.

kirk1701
08-25-2013, 04:49 PM
1 oz per gallon Malathion is way over label rate. 1/3 oz or 2 teaspoons and never with Captan.

Greendoc
Maybe were looking at different labels?

I'm using Spectracide Malathion (http://www.spectracide.com/~/media/Spectracide/Files/Product%20Labels/Other/071121109002.ashx)
To control aphids, mix 1½ to 2 tsp per gallon of water.

2 tablespoons would be 1.041 oz. so 1 oz. to gal right?

And here's (http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/id/id21/id21.pdf) the spray program he recommended (Scroll down to Page 14. See Remaining covers: Continue spraying at 10- to 14-day intervals.

I'm open to all suggestions I don't want to lose next years crop. But that's the label and the Spray schedules I followed. Some of which he worked with me on changing like Permethrin we substituted Liquid seven (I believe). All mixed in together, sprayed at same time; Captan, Immunox, Seven & Malathion.

kirk1701
08-25-2013, 04:57 PM
Keep in mind, I don't think I'm going to add the captan for the first two spray applications, maybe 3.

Kind of like I did in 2012 but not because I withheld it, see notes above I just didn't know, I was still working with the contact learning what to use and when.

Somehow, I think holding back that captan saved me from a loss in 2012.

greendoctor
08-25-2013, 05:02 PM
Looking at the same label. Malathion 50% EC has been around from before I was born. 1 oz per gallon is more like the dose for dormant trees for scale control. 2 teaspoons per gallon is for control of aphids and mites on plants in leaf.

kirk1701
08-25-2013, 05:07 PM
Looking at the same label. Malathion 50% EC has been around from before I was born. 1 oz per gallon is more like the dose for dormant trees for scale control. 2 teaspoons per gallon is for control of aphids and mites on plants in leaf.

Ok so do I even need the Malathion?
I'm applying dormant spray in middle of winter here:
 February 7.
• Sprayed Bonide All Seasons Horticultural & Dormant Spray Oil (at the recommended 2.5 oz. per gallon) & Fixed copper (1 oz. per Gallon) on all the peach, apple, cherry tree’s & grape vines with good coverage. Used 6 gallon


As you can tell, I take and keep good records/ Notes :drinkup:
EVERY YEAR :waving:

greendoctor
08-26-2013, 01:25 AM
Yes you do. Sevin has no effect on aphids or mites and you are using Sevin, which normally causes those pests to explode.

foreplease
08-26-2013, 07:29 AM
Hi Kirk1701. First, those garden pictures look great. Congratulations!

Small point above that seems to have been glossed over in post #47:
You quote Greensoctor telling you to use 1 1/2-2 teaspoons of Malathion, the you came back with 2 TABLESPOONS would be...1 oz per gallon.

1 TBS = 3 tsp. Maybe this is part of the misunderstanding. I did not click on the label or the spray program document.

kirk1701
08-26-2013, 03:59 PM
Hi Kirk1701. First, those garden pictures look great. Congratulations!

Small point above that seems to have been glossed over in post #47:
You quote Greensoctor telling you to use 1 1/2-2 teaspoons of Malathion, the you came back with 2 TABLESPOONS would be...1 oz per gallon.

1 TBS = 3 tsp. Maybe this is part of the misunderstanding. I did not click on the label or the spray program document.

Good catch foreplease http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Smilies%20Hut/thanks.gif

Which now puts it at .3469 ounces to gallon so for a 4 gallon backpack I can round that off to 1.5 ounces

Second thing I just noticed in the PDF
Peaches: Make up to 3 applications per year – at least 11 days apart. Do not apply within 7 days of harvest.

3 APPLICATIONS!!!!
Hell I'm spraying every 2 weeks http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Smilies%20Hut/head_hurts_kr.gif

See post 43 that's why I tested the Malathion on one tree end of July and the captan on another tree. I already had suspicions with the captan but I was also questioning whether it was the Malathion also.

Hmmm
WTF else was I overspraying now I'm glad I updated my findings as you guys caught other stuff also :clapping:

I'll let you know what my contact at U.Kentucky says after I bring this to his attention.

foreplease
08-26-2013, 11:29 PM
You are definitely better at this stuff than you were 2 years ago! Still a bit of a trigger finger where the sprayer is concerned but a big improvement my friend. In fact, if you'll look, you'll see you are still my only friend here :) Really a good looking garden. It's pretty foreign to people in this area to be able to plant a second crop late summer in the same garden space, as you did with turnips.

Your mom is a good cook. Ask her to show you teaspoons and tablespoons :laugh:

kirk1701
08-26-2013, 11:46 PM
You are definitely better at this stuff than you were 2 years ago! Still a bit of a trigger finger where the sprayer is concerned but a big improvement my friend. In fact, if you'll look, you'll see you are still my only friend here :) Really a good looking garden. It's pretty foreign to people in this area to be able to plant a second crop late summer in the same garden space, as you did with turnips.

Your mom is a good cook. Ask her to show you teaspoons and tablespoons :laugh:

Thanks bud http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Smilies%20Hut/thanks.gif
I've been pulling up the tomato's tonight, getting ready to plant the turnip greens here in the next week or so, only thing left in the garden now is the Okra, waiting on it to start producing :drinkup:

I ate a whole quart jar of salsa tonight by myself :laugh:
160 quarts we put up between salsa, juice and tomato's for winter.

Yes, she is a good cook but I'm not going to give her an excuse to laugh at me she gets enough of that without my help :)

RigglePLC
08-27-2013, 11:25 PM
And...take a look at Cornell's information for home fruit growers. Second opinion. Cornell is highly respected by fruit growers.
Maybe your university is giving you information from the 1960's. Perhaps you do not need the captan. Perhaps you don't need the Immunox fungicide either. The only important disease Cornell mentions is brown rot. And the main insect is curculio.

Certain insecticides like sevin can cause fruit to drop. And you don't want too many fruit--as that results in many small inferior fruit. They must be spaced out--say 3 to 6 inches apart.
About fruit drop:
http://www.starkbros.com/blog/shedding-light-on-fruit-drop/

And thanks for the comment, Greendoc...sevin makes mites worse. And kills bees which would otherwise pollinate your fruit blossoms.

kirk1701
08-28-2013, 10:03 AM
And...take a look at Cornell's information for home fruit growers. Second opinion. Cornell is highly respected by fruit growers.
Maybe your university is giving you information from the 1960's. Perhaps you do not need the captan. Perhaps you don't need the Immunox fungicide either. The only important disease Cornell mentions is brown rot. And the main insect is curculio.

Certain insecticides like sevin can cause fruit to drop. And you don't want too many fruit--as that results in many small inferior fruit. They must be spaced out--say 3 to 6 inches apart.
About fruit drop:
http://www.starkbros.com/blog/shedding-light-on-fruit-drop/

And thanks for the comment, Greendoc...sevin makes mites worse. And kills bees which would otherwise pollinate your fruit blossoms.

Correct
That's why I didn't start spraying till after the blooms fell. :drinkup: