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View Full Version : best way to lay out and install circle?


alldayrj
05-01-2012, 07:16 AM
I just sold this patio and I am wondering the best way to lay out and install this circle. I have done curves and stuff before but they want the pattern (cambridge 3pc ledgestone) to flow right into the circle (or I guess 3/4 circle-the border will not run through the patio). I couldnt figure out how to get the program to put the matching border on the circle and also it will not be raised up. Do I just use the pin, string and can of spray technique or is that just for TV?

thanks for any help guys

alldayrj
05-01-2012, 07:18 AM
wont let me upload the screen shot word document, can I share it directly from realtime landscaper pro?

DVS Hardscaper
05-01-2012, 07:33 AM
Lay entire field.

Then install circle. This way you maintain straight lines.
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alldayrj
05-01-2012, 07:53 AM
shoot me now but we do footings and mortar down our borders, so I always do borders first then the field. I run strings to keep it straight when I run irregular shapes. I was looking more for a way to make sure the circle was perfect or close to it. I normally form free flowing curves with a bendable board but I'm not sure if I trust them to make a 3/4 circle.

got it
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/fitzpatio.jpg

Red Shed Landscaping
05-01-2012, 08:19 AM
We always start in the center of the circle and work our way out, so that way you know its a circle.

Red Shed Landscaping
05-01-2012, 08:21 AM
oh you aren't using a circle kit? If not then a stake and a string would be the next best thing.

alldayrj
05-01-2012, 08:49 AM
yea its not a kit. the pattern is running from the 20x30 patio right into the 15' diameter thats centered on the corner. I just want it to be perfectly round and smooth

White Gardens
05-01-2012, 08:58 AM
oh you aren't using a circle kit? If not then a stake and a string would be the next best thing.

Agreed.

Set a post in the center. I generally use a larger piece of re-bar and paint it orange to make it visible. Then after the circle is done, just pull the post tamp the area and then fill the center.

This is a circle I did for a client. In this situation, the center was left open as a planting bed.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/16251_190173297642_185135107642_3178202_1413255_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/16251_190173352642_185135107642_3178208_6411426_n.jpg



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DVS Hardscaper
05-01-2012, 09:07 AM
I thought you meant circle kit.

You'll have to know your radius diameter(s) and the locations of your center point(s). I know alotta folks like using sketch up for designs. I never touched sketch up, does it provide radius diameters and locate the center?

We did a patio last August similar to your picture. We installed the patio first (the rectangular portion), then located and installed the rounded fire pit area last.


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White Gardens
05-01-2012, 09:19 AM
I thought you meant circle kit.

You'll have to know your radius diameter(s) and the locations of your center point(s). I know alotta folks like using sketch up for designs. I never touched sketch up, does it provide radius diameters and locate the center?

We did a patio last August similar to your picture. We installed the patio first (the rectangular portion), then located and installed the rounded fire pit area last.
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I agree with that method when doing a firepit. I'd just find the center point of it and then remove the pavers you need and set the footer for the pit and build it.

But, as a large section of patio being a circle, I personally would build 85% of the field first, build the circle, then finish the field and make your cuts accordingly to butt the field to the circle.

My reason being is that the focus will be on the circle visually, so I would make the circle as nice and exact first allowing you to make the adjustments with the field when finishing.

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alldayrj
05-01-2012, 09:42 AM
it isnt being laid in a circle pattern, just within a circular border - look at the picture

do you guys really trust that plastic snap edging? the work looks beautiful, I'm not knocking it, just curious

alldayrj
05-01-2012, 09:44 AM
is a 15' diameter, so 7.5 radius, centered on the corner of the 20x30 patio, all the other corners will be rounded but I string it out square for layout the base the circle off of that corner.

So I should just form it with my bendable boards and triple check it with the string and center pin method?

DVS Hardscaper
05-01-2012, 10:41 AM
Whatever works best for you.

Some guys like to hunt deer from a tree stand, some like to hunt deer from the ground. Whatever you can come up with to get the task done.

We measure with string. Often times pull triangles.

We don't use bendable boards, that's alotta stuff to pack onto the truck! We simply use SnapEdge restraint for marking and such.

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White Gardens
05-01-2012, 11:00 AM
do you guys really trust that plastic snap edging? the work looks beautiful, I'm not knocking it, just curious

The only issue I've had is that in the case of the picture that I posted, the HO is pretty good about running the tire of their diesel JD lawn tractor over the edge of the sidewalk and tweaking a few pavers on the edge.

I might, in the case of the circle, is to go ahead and put a mortar restraint on the circle section to alleviate the issue. I've even thought about leaving the plastic restraint and putting a mortar bead right on the restraint.

But over-all, I've had good luck with the plastic restraint with anything I've used in on.


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DVS Hardscaper
05-01-2012, 12:29 PM
It's not plastic.

We have used it for 16 years.

Consecutively


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White Gardens
05-01-2012, 01:31 PM
It's not plastic.

Whatever works best for you.

Some guys like to hunt deer from a tree stand, some like to hunt deer from the ground. Whatever you can come up with to get the task done.

Posted via Mobile Device

Very True.

As for alldayrj, personally I think you are splitting hairs when it comes to the circle location, or circle boarder radius. I'm pretty sure you've got pi in your equation somewhere too.......

Yes, you still need to figure your center location and such, but you don't need to be 100% exact as you'll find out that your numbers might not work once the installation has begun.

Basically allow yourself a fudge factor and adjust on the fly. I know I'm always adding a foot, taking off a foot, adding a curve here or there etc.....

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alldayrj
05-06-2012, 11:18 PM
I did it with the pin and tape method.

next up is the fire pit. I'm using a cambridge kit and I will ask them tomorrow when I pick it up but iI'm curious what you guys do. Install it on top of the pavers or leave out the pavers and set it down on the base material?

White Gardens
05-06-2012, 11:47 PM
I did it with the pin and tape method.

next up is the fire pit. I'm using a cambridge kit and I will ask them tomorrow when I pick it up but iI'm curious what you guys do. Install it on top of the pavers or leave out the pavers and set it down on the base material?

I've never done a pit in a patio before, but, if I were to do one, I would cut out and take out the pavers, then remove any base material I needed to in order to get the grade correct for the pit, re-tamp, then set a circle footer of 2"-3" concrete. Then start building the pit.

And, don't forget to auger out a good hole in the center of the pit, line the hole with landscape fabric and fill it with washed pea-gravel so that the pit won't hold water.

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alldayrj
05-07-2012, 06:03 AM
I think the cambridge kit has a steel liner
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White Gardens
05-07-2012, 08:29 AM
I think the cambridge kit has a steel liner
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What does that matter?

With all the heat and such, I always put a concrete footer to set the pit on along with re-bar in the footer.

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alldayrj
05-07-2012, 11:08 PM
What does the heat have to do with rebar? They said to do a drainage chimney and set the pit on base then pavers up to the edge. Just PL premium the blocks together
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alldayrj
05-15-2012, 01:00 AM
got it. thanks for the advice guys
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/bf1077a2.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/51119781.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/1fe4a693.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/4cb381b9.jpg

Moneypit
05-16-2012, 10:11 PM
Why do you set all of your borders before the infield? Seems like it creates a lot of extra work and room for error.

Birchwood
05-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Looks good.

I've seen guys do this before and it baffels me to think about how in effiecent this has to be, along with those guys who set edgings first.

Can you accuretly set pitch with this method? I'm asking not bashing.

We grade out gravel, then layout strings and pipes to screed our sand letting every thing run wide, then mark soilder course and lay out curves with some 1/2 pvc pipe coupled together, found it is more fluid than a piece of snap edge.

The job we are working on this week is simillar, 16x35 patio with a 14' half circle bumped out of one side, we staked the center and worked from there, first laying out seat wall, and then setting main patio pavers, and cut a circle out to lay in a secondary paver, all useing the center mark. We are leaving out the fire pit for the last step, we are using a larger 24x24 paver in the circle so I felt leaving out the pit would give us more room the work.

alldayrj
05-16-2012, 10:33 PM
I'm 23 but I learned this method from my dad who has been doing it for 30 years. I set the pitch on my borders, lay the brick, then play connect the dots in the middle. believe me, i see the way you guys lay pavers, cut the edge with a demo saw and hammer in the snap edge and I am super jealous of the time you save but I cant believe that snap edge holds up as long as brick and mortar. especially with the freeze/thaw cycles up here. there are 8" footings under that brick.

room for error? definitely less forgiving. I make sure my borders are very square so I dont end up with a little sliver along one side or something. Also gives us a straight edge to set the inner pavers to.

I also use the gas pipe screed method.

I lay out my curves with 1x4 AZEK boards, very predictable and smooth bends

Birchwood
05-16-2012, 10:44 PM
I question the same thing with the mortar and freeze thaw, I see you are in NY an your winters are worse than ours in IL. We have some issues with the snap edge if the job has been done late in the season, and the nails haven't had a chance to rust yet.