Growth Inhibitors?

[TaylorLawn]

I am toying with the idea of applying some growth inhibitor next season to some ditches to reduce growth in two of my larger accounts...I want to make sure that it still looks green and healthy, but also reduce some trimming time....these ditches get extremely thick and hard to manage and I feel that applying something of this nature would assist in time management....does anyone have any experiences to share regarding growth inhibitors or regulators???? Thanks, Eric

[Ric]

Depending on the type of turf you are dealing with Growth Regulars can be very cheap to apply or expensive. Primo is the most common one used on turf and shrubs. Benefits are to numerous to list all. But the bottom line is dark green strong health plants.

Type of grass you wish to treat is important in choosing a growth regular. Round Up can in fact be used as a growth regular. It is not what you use sometimes. It is how you use it. Citrus growers have used Round up as a Growth Regular for many years to control grass between their trees. Paspahum grass species response well to Round Up as a growth regular.

[TaylorLawn]

The turf I am referring to is centipede, which I am sure is prevelant in your location, as mine. Ive asked a couple of LCO's around here (that I trust) about it and none seem to use anything like it, but they liked the idea for the ditches. Ill check out the Primo, have you ever used Embark?

[ProMo]

i used embark on bahia and st aug at a cemetery a few years ago only problem i had was the grass stopped growing but weeds were popping up left and right saved a lot of time cut my string trimming from 3-4 hrs a week down to 15 minutes

[SWD]

Depending on label requirements in your state, pgr or tgr product use should assist your efforts.
The real main difference between a plant growth regulator and a total growth regulator is where each chemical 'works' in the target host as well as residual factors. In a simplified manner, say you can use Primo - a pgr, it typically triggers a response in turf like this: foliar growth markedly diminished, agressive lateral tillering, ie denser growth without the vertical height - need for mowing. Your problem with pgr's comes from undesired, off target effects like those mentioned - Primo doesn't effect weeds at all, or actually very little. So if your ditch is more like a swale wherein it is all turfgrass and irrigated, dependent upon label requirements, you could use a pgr.
Now a total growth regulator acts in a different manner in the host: decreased root structure, decreased foliar mass, often a marked color change mimicking a dormant stage, and typically a longer residual time effect. The good thing with a tgr is that most weeds are usually effected right along with the target being sprayed.
All this being said, if the potential for run off exists into a water source, the off target effects of pgr/tgr and glyosphate or ascephate compounds to avain and fish life is nothing short of devistating.
I recommend checking with the local DOT or county road maintenance personnel. They spray roadsides all the time, more typically a state dot does than county, so I would start with the state dot first.
Provided a chemical is mentioned, I would still check for correct labelling as some state dept's are exempted from label requirements, yet commercial users are not.

[devildog]

Originally posted by SWD

Now a total growth regulator acts in a different manner in the host: decreased root structure, decreased foliar mass, often a marked color change mimicking a dormant stage, and typically a longer residual time effect. The good thing with a tgr is that most weeds are usually effected right along with the target being sprayed.


Can you provide examples, as in what genus groups, show the "marked color change mimicking a dormant stage". With Regards... devildog

[GroundKprs]

"Growth regulators" have a long history. As Ric stated, Roundup was found to work as a growth regulator at special rates on certain plants in certain settings. First and second classes of regulators still have a definite function in some areas, but third class, like Primo, will give good results in most turf areas.

Too much info to try to give it all here. Suggest you start with your state extension office to learn what is most functional for your intended application.

[Ric]

Primo is great on shrubs also to promote inward growth. If you can see thru the hedge and don't want to, try Primo.

The cost of applying PGR verses benefits is a hard sell. High chem. cost versus labor saving is an intangible figure. However property mangers that use PGR claim there crews have more time for other jobs. GR are one of the least used chemicals in our industry. Why? Because they are the least understood by the general public.

Tremor tried to promote PGRs last spring on this site. Stone jumped in and the pro's and con's of Snake Oil were a heated debate. Do a search under primo or Tremor to find it.

[TaylorLawn]

I appreciate all of the great educational statements....this will definately help me make my decision, I do want to inhibit the total growth in these areas, weeds and all, but I do not want to dramatically change the color......would using less than the recommended concentrate help with some color control??...your replies are great tools to use..Thank you so much, Eric

[CSRA Landscaping]

If a novice could offer an idea, I'll try. I've only been at this a little over two years now so take this for what it's worth. I'm planning on implementing pgr use next year so I've been looking at this too.

Seems to me that you'd want to keep the work down while retaining the desired (green) look. If you use something that will cause it to look dormant (tgr) then you're going to lose the desired appearance. Why not give a one, two punch. Knock out your weeds, so they become a non-issue, then apply your pgr.

Also, I didn't think primo was a pgr that was effective on ornamentals? I know that Embark is, that's what I'm looking at using.

[Ric]

CSRA Land. Very good Thinking. I have tried it that way myself. Doesn't work that well. If you are dealing with a weedy lawn there is a reason for the weeds. Normally management practices. If you use GR on a less than health turf it will not fill in the area were the weeds were killed. Therefore I want the turf to be growing as fast as it can to close those areas. I re-treat weeds with post emerge and stay away from pre-emerge herbicides. After the turf is healthily or "weed free" use PGRs.

TGRs like Round Up should not be used on Quality Turf. They do have there place.

[GroundKprs]

Yo, Ric. What is the theory of Primo to thicken shrubs? Spraying controls growth of the outer shell, but spray doesn't get to inner branches, so they are all that continue to grow?

Is this just new research, or is there a new label coming out?

[Ric]

Originally posted by SWD
a pgr, it typically triggers a response in turf like this: foliar growth markedly diminished, agressive lateral tillering, ie denser growth without the vertical height -

Jim denser growth with out vertical height. Plant are plants and have similar growth patters. I have used this trick for years. It works extremely well on older shrub that were sheared at the same height. No sun gets to lower limbs and the shrub thins. Drop pocket prune the shrub and apply 1/2 strength Primo. Darn I finally taught you something. After all these years the student is Master for a day.

[Arnold]

Used Primo on some bluegrass and the result was a stronger sod, darker green and less mowing needed. CSU has done studies on bluegrass with Primo with great results with the end product being stronger sod and less mowing, they did there studies for sod growers in mind.

[GarPA]

This is a little off the subject, but I've also read articles where, because of our persistent droughts, there is a marketing opportunity here to apply this product in order to "stress proof" the turf prior to the hot/dry season...pictures I have seen of a PGR treated turf in a hot/dry test condition were impressive....it does seem to make one healthy grass plant....I'm going to treat my own yard this summer and see how it works...I also plan to use it on a couple "slopes from Hell" this season. It is a high priced product so make sure you do a cost/benefit b4 you buy it...in my case, the PGR will save me considerable time and my profit margin will remain unchanged

[TaylorLawn]

GarPA,

The "slopes from hell" is exactley the same thing I am trying to take care of....

Does anyone know what the time frame is for reapplication?
Eric

[GarPA]

TayorLawn....just last week I attended a chemical update mtg...bunch of different factory reps were there...I asked this very question of the Primo rep and he said to reapply about every 4 weeks....he also said primo is NOT effective on broadleaf weeds....like said above, if we want to use this product to save some work, we have to get the weeds out first....otherwise we'll still have unsightly growth

[GroundKprs]

PGRs are not magic bullets!!

20 years ago, when research was really cooking up on PGRs, it was even said that people would find them so fabulous that lawns would only have to be mowed once a month within 20 years. Well, it's 20 years later, and ????

Most functional turf PGRs operate by interrupting giberellic acid (GA) production in the plant, thereby inhibiting cell elongation, so grass blades cannot grow higher so quickly. When first ones were available, if a treatment turned out disastrous, you could just apply GA to the turf to correct the PGR application. Certain PGRs, and certain combos of PGRs and/or other chemicals can give great supprsesion of seedhead production, but timing is critical in this use.

If you want to investigate the world of PGRs, you definitely need to know a bit about plant physiology. And of course, you need to be licensed for pesticide application in your state.

For use on ornamental turf, Primo is the most expensive, but also the most forgiving, product to use. You can treat 1000 sq ft for about $1.00 of product, but you need to look at how much time you will save in double or triple cutting that area over a 4-6 week period of heavy growth. In many cases, you can make a Primo app and not charge client for it, and more than make up the cost in reduced mowing times.

[SWD]

devildog, a genus bearing the response I indicated in my post is in the C3 family, specifically (in my experience) family Aveneae genus Agrostis.
What I am referring to is when spraying a tgr on bentgrass and certain other C3 turfgrasses, family Festuceae genus Festuca and Lolium to control Poa Annua prior to third stage leaf emergence, at heights in excess of two inches, in unirrigated areas or intermittantly irrigated areas, a tgr shows marked impact upon both the host and the target.
Area appears dormant for six to eight weeks, yet the Poa Annua is controlled beyond the seed head production, is mowed from the turf area, a second to no more than a third application and no more Poa Annua. Did this several times when maintaining golf courses and wanted the Poa Annua out of my rough and intermediate fairway collars.

[devildog]

Thanks, know now not to spray it on ornamental grasses. Any experiences with it on woody ornamentals, or other observations? With Regards... devildog

[NC Big Daddy]

This is why I come to this site. I'd like to thank you guys for sharing this information.

[IGROTURF]

GUYS PRIMO MAXX IS NOT LABLED FOR ORNAMENTALS!!!!!
IGRTURF

[SWD]

devildog,
I have no experience with any type of pgr or tgr on ornamentals.
What I like about this site is the diversity of information posted, and not just here. I will do some checking about pgr/tgr on ornamentals.

[Ric]

IGROTURF

oops Am I bad. your right primo is not labeled for ornamentals. About five years ago a Horticulturist from the U of Fla. told me to use primo on shurbs. The same person told me Merit granular worked better on shrubs than WSP. Both of these products do not have a ornamental labels. The Label is the law. I have not used either product in the last three years on ornamentals.

How many times have you heard the statement: read the label, read the label. I guess I am guilty of blind faith. If a man has a PHD. then he is always right, NOT SO. What he told me was true; just not legal.

Thanks


GKP. With egg on my face I 'll admitt I can't be Master even for a day. :D

[GroundKprs]

I was just waiting for him to catch himself. :D :D

[ParksGuy]

We use several PGR's on the parks, buth to shrubs and to turf. I also use Roundup as a PGR, ( did you know that 1% mixture lightly applied to boxwood makes it look like snow and stops all shearing for the season?)- other PGR's are Embark- ( works great on ivy) Primo and Proxy,( I prefer Proxy as the cost is less than Primo and I feel it works better), and on shrubs we use Atrimmec-( the budget couldn't live without it).
Like any chemicals the time of application in the growth cycle is crucial, we also use a liquid fertilizer with all PGR apps.
Do a search on www.google.com and see what you find.
:)