PDA

View Full Version : Warranty on your work?


alldayrj
05-15-2012, 01:41 PM
I'm bidding on larger jobs and with big money comes high expectations. I've recently been asked about warranty on my work and can honestly say I've never had a problem that i needed to fix after the job was done. Whats a good warranty duration? 1-2-5-10 years???
The unique problem with this job is that they want cambridge pavers installed over a concrete slab around their newly installed in ground concrete pool. The slab is to ensure no settling but I'm pretty sure that installing over concrete voids the manufacturers warranty. Do I just warranty my labor? What if the dirt settles under the slab and it snaps even with 3500, wire and doweled into the pool?

The competitor is offering 10 years fyi. Don't see how he can do that when you void the product warranty the second you install it
Posted via Mobile Device

Gilmore.Landscaping
05-15-2012, 04:55 PM
I know there are many threads on this, but regardless the manufactures warranty has nothing to do with it. Their warranty covers the stone....meaning crack pavers, deterioration, discoloring it has nothing to do with install/settling.

Warranty is only as good as the company providing it. I could start a company and say lifetime warranty but if the work sucks and I am out of business in 2 years then what good is a lifetime warranty??

DVS Hardscaper
05-15-2012, 06:59 PM
"bidding"???

alldayrj
05-15-2012, 08:05 PM
"giving my estimate"
Posted via Mobile Device

alldayrj
05-15-2012, 08:31 PM
Thanks gilmore. Thats what I'm expressing to the customer. It seems like pool companies around here pull this tactic often as 3 different people have told me horror stories about companies disappearing around year 9 on a 10 year warranty job leaving the customer holding the settling bag. .

Can you link me one of those threads if you get a chance?
Posted via Mobile Device

Gilmore.Landscaping
05-15-2012, 08:49 PM
"bidding"???

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bidding
Posted via Mobile Device

alldayrj
05-15-2012, 09:03 PM
Like. Nah, love that
Posted via Mobile Device

DVS Hardscaper
05-15-2012, 10:00 PM
people that offer 10 yr warranty are really putting theirselves out there.

i warranty our work for 5 years. and even thats too long.

New houses usually have a max of a 2 yr warranty. Why are we warrantying a $15,000 patio for 5 years when builders are warrantying a $487,000 home for 1 to 2 yrs??



.

FLCthes4:11-12
05-15-2012, 10:07 PM
I would agree on 1-2 years for labor then whatever the mfg. offers on the product. I have found over the years that if you can't afford to loose then you can't afford to play. If you are not contracted and part of the construction from the begining its hard to know if the base was constructed properly. Besides a warranty costs if you offer 1 year full warranty and the other guy is 10 years his quote has to be more if he intends on honoring it.

DVS Hardscaper
05-15-2012, 10:34 PM
Lawnsite member Jim Lewis had mentioned a few months ago that there is some contractor in his neck of the woods that is doing some outlandish warranty.

Hey, it worked for Chrysler!

I'm not for certain, but I believe this 5 yr thing began with Belgard about 15-17 years ago when Belgard launched their authorized contractor program. A requirement of being their authorized contractor was that you had to warranty your work for 5 years.

AztlanLC
05-16-2012, 12:08 AM
I do offer my customer a 5 year warranty on installation, I know someone around my area saying lifetime warranty and 10 year warranty, when a prospect customer tells me about this other companies my reply is usually, well I offer a 5 year warranty cause I can take you to previous projects that have being there for that period of time and still looking almost like the day it was installed, (actually have some jobs dated back 10 years but usually all of those are small) can the other contractor offering such a long warranty show you any work older than 3 years, I know their claims but also know they haven't been around for more than that.
On a side note most paver manufactures, will still honor their warranty if the pavers are laid on top of concrete following their guidelines.

alldayrj
05-16-2012, 10:07 PM
I just had my mason yard get me a copy of the guidelines. Picking them up tomorrow.
Posted via Mobile Device

DVS Hardscaper
05-17-2012, 10:43 AM
I just had my mason yard get me a copy of the guidelines. Picking them up tomorrow.
Posted via Mobile Device

Guidelines? Whatcha mean?
Posted via Mobile Device

FLCthes4:11-12
05-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Sorry to be picking but I saw in a earlier post Do you lay your soilder course first in a bed of mortar? If so do you pack your pavers after you lay them? Does your base extend past paver edge? Also no rolls of geo fabric laying around?

alldayrj
05-17-2012, 06:21 PM
Icpi stuff

Yes i lay them in mortar then after thay are set i pack some mortar on the outside.

The base is contained within the footing.

Just recently learned about geo fabric. Havent used it yet tho
Posted via Mobile Device

DVS Hardscaper
05-17-2012, 08:20 PM
If you're in a freeze climate - you may wanna not lay the border on mortar. Your footing would have to be down to the frost line for it to be effective. Which here where I'm at is 32" deep!

We redid the entry to a paver driveway done by others last year where the contractor does a concrete edge restraint. It has shifted all over the place and was more difficult to correct. It gave the opportunity to see first hand the negative drawback of using concrete to restrain pavers.

.
Posted via Mobile Device

Birchwood
05-17-2012, 10:51 PM
I offer a 5 year warranty, but not including problems from subsurface settling.

I once had a boss explain to me that a carpet layer isn't at fault, if you fall through your living room floor. It would be the carpenters fault for a substandard subfloor.

FLCthes4:11-12
05-18-2012, 05:58 AM
I offer a 5 year warranty, but not including problems from subsurface settling.

I once had a boss explain to me that a carpet layer isn't at fault, if you fall through your living room floor. It would be the carpenters fault for a substandard subfloor.

But chances are that if you are laying the pavers then you installed subfloor correct? I would understand no warranty if base is prepared for you

alldayrj
05-18-2012, 08:14 AM
Well this particular situation is an in ground pool. So unless i excavate the pool, backfill and compact it in 6" lifts how can i warranty that it will not settle? I like that idea birchwood
Posted via Mobile Device

DVS Hardscaper
05-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Well, not so sure about the carpet and flooring analogy. Carpet isn't prone to being installed on a ghost floor.

In the construction world there are often multiple others involved in construction projects. Communication is key. In all reality it's unlikely the paver guy will ever backfill and compact a new pool.
I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it's unlikely.

Next is the pool installer most likely won't even communicate the necessity of proper backfill and compaction to their subs. In my area I only know of ONE pool contractor that actually is on site every minute of the time that their subs are on site.

If you want the work and don't wanna be liable for settlement - you must communicate appropriately, and you can't play hardball or you won't see the job. A
Veteran contractor like me, who knows how to gets results will snatch it right up.
Posted via Mobile Device

DVS Hardscaper
05-18-2012, 10:29 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

JimLewis
10-09-2012, 03:35 AM
Lawnsite member Jim Lewis had mentioned a few months ago that there is some contractor in his neck of the woods that is doing some outlandish warranty.

Sorry to bring up an old thread. I never saw this thread before.

There is this big conglomerate (they have branches all up and down the West coast) called Systems Pavers (http://www.systempavers.com/landing/spl01.aspx?src=GGLE1029&cpao=155&gclid=CPTkjtGm87ICFcV7QgodanwAYQ) that offers a 25 year warranty on their paver patios and also a 30-day money-back guarantee. All they are is a sales company. The only employees they have is a branch manager and a few estimators. They have no installers, no shop, no office, nothing. Every time they land a job, they sub it out to someone else in the area who does pavers. And since none of the reputable, more established companies in the area would ever work for them, they get sort of the bottom of the barrel in terms of installers and experience. They get these companies who sort-of know how to install pavers. They never use edge restraint (just pour a few bags of concrete around the edges to keep the pavers in place). They never install geo fabric. They will install steps right over siding, etc. and without any flashing, vapor barrier, etc. I've seen a number of their installs where they didn't even install a border (e.g. sailor course or soldier course) when one was really sorely needed.

The Portland branch gets mixed reviews on Angie's List. Some F's and D's but also a fair amount of A's, B's and C's too. The main complaint seems to be that the customer didn't understand that they used subs and they were unhappy with the subcontractor. Other complaints involve the wrong variety or color of paver installed or poor communication.

But their big selling point is their 25 year warranty. It's really all they got going for them. I hate going against them on bids. Fortunately, we know their weaknesses and have learned to capitalize on that. So when we hear we're bidding against them we will emphasize strengths that we have that we know they are weak in. But I still hate that damn 25 year warranty. It's freakin' ridiculous! What I hate most about it is when people actually fall for it. And they do!

DVS Hardscaper
10-09-2012, 09:14 PM
See, the Angie's List ratings can be misleading, in terms of paver installation as it takes approximately 3 years to see the effects of a paver install done wrong. I could build a patio today and purposely do everything incorrectly - and the customer will give me a good rating because it just looks so beautiful! Yeah, they always look beautiful when they're new. Infact, when I provide prospective clients with references, I try to use jobs that are at least 3 years old, I almost never use a job we recently completed as a reference.

I'm wondering how those people came up with a 25 year warranty. I mean, what products / services are out there that are warrantied for that long? Ok, roofing shingles have 30 to 40 year warranties. Craftsman tools are warrantied forever. But just typing off the cuff I can't think of much else that has such a warranty. It seems like a huge risk for the contractor.

andyslawncare
11-08-2012, 08:48 PM
3 years for hardscape and irrigation (install and new parts only; repairs for 90 days to 1 year--lots of factors)
1 year for plants (not all apply)

Rocha_Construction
11-09-2012, 09:44 PM
For us is a matter of what type of work is being performed.

We tend to give about 1 or 2 years of warranty is the norm here in Maryland. Although, if after that time, a customer has called us saying that they had an issue, we have always fixed the problem for free.

If the work was a repair, we do not offer a warranty. Only on new or fully rebuilt projects.

zedosix
11-10-2012, 09:39 AM
I dissagree with Dvs about "always looking beautiful when new" I see so much crap and poor designing that it boggles my mind how these guys even pick up the job to start with. An extended warranty to anyone but a fool is not worth a damn. This company gives 5 yr warranties. It needs to be fixed now and its not done yet.

DVS Hardscaper
11-10-2012, 06:45 PM
I dissagree with Dvs about "always looking beautiful when new" I see so much crap and poor designing that it boggles my mind how these guys even pick up the job to start with. An extended warranty to anyone but a fool is not worth a damn. This company gives 5 yr warranties. It needs to be fixed now and its not done yet.

Andy you're getting a little carried away with analyzing what I write.

Naturally there's new jobs that look like crap. You, I, and all quality veteran contractors know that. It goes without saying.

When I say "all jobs always look beautiful when they're freshly completed", I'm speaking in general terms. Because its true.

Just like new employees always work wonderfully for the first two weeks.

Just like new boyfriends or girlfriends are always so nice and easy to get along with at the beginning.

Asphalt is only as good as what's underneath it. So - new asphalt jobs always look nice.


Posted via Mobile Device

Yarddog73
11-21-2012, 01:25 PM
people that offer 10 yr warranty are really putting theirselves out there.

i warranty our work for 5 years. and even thats too long.

New houses usually have a max of a 2 yr warranty. Why are we warrantying a $15,000 patio for 5 years when builders are warrantying a $487,000 home for 1 to 2 yrs??



.

The engineered foundations and structural framing of a house here in SC must be warranted for 10 yrs. Cosmetics are 1 to 2 years.