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FS Lawn
12-22-2002, 05:48 PM
I am looking for a good commercial grade " push type "mower , ( propelled or push )what Brand name do you recommend? I have looked at the Exmark Metro and it looks fine , I am just trying to find other brands to look at before I get one..

JeffY
12-22-2002, 06:06 PM
We use Toro's simply because out of the 100 accounts or so, we only push mow 5 yards. The toro's respond really well and cut grass without a problem. THe only problem with ours is it doesn't have a true blade shut-off when the blade is not engaged as I have knicked my fingers rather deeply (3 stitches). As for particular models to look after, I wouldn't know which one.

DLS1
12-22-2002, 06:54 PM
I did alot of research on this already and bought a Toro Proline 21" 5.5 hp 2 cycle. Starts no more than the 2nd pull and I never have to change oil since oil is mixed in with the gas for 2 cycle engine.

LLMSERVICE
12-22-2002, 06:58 PM
The Toro Proline and Exmark are virtually identical in every respect from what I can tell. Price wise, they are about the same in my neck of the woods.

I run two Toro's - one with a 2 cycle Suzuki and one with a 4 cycle Kawasaki with blade brake. Both are self propelled and I would never go back to a manual push model ever. The self propelled give you a consistent mowing speed, no matter what the temperature. When its 90 degrees out, the last thing you want to be doing is struggling with a 100 pound machine on a hill. It takes the same amount of time to mow a property whether its 40 or 90 degrees.

They bag and mulch very well.

The two cycle is approximately 6 years old and I had a short block replacement this spring (1/3 the cost of replacing the entire machine.) and the rest of the unit is as good as new.

I am moving to 4 cycle mowers because of emissions - both regulatory and because of my health. The 4 cycle has a smaller tank and thus requires frequent refueling. However, at the end of the day, my clothes don't smell of exhaust and my lungs aren't screaming for mercy.

Once you accept that you are going to pay a premium for a premium machine, I'm sure you will find either of these units a good investment. I see too many people accepting that they pay $300 two times a year for cheap mowers when they can spend $1700 for a good machine that will last 6-7 years with proper maintenance. (I'm using Canadian dollars to illistrate my points here)

FS Lawn
12-22-2002, 08:11 PM
I have a Exmark Metro now and realy like it . The main reason I am asking is I have a freind that is interested in a "Yazoo Keys "
What do you know about these mowers ? are they worth the money?

Thanks for all of the information........

mklawnman
12-22-2002, 08:40 PM
Im looking too for a new 21inch Commerical Push mower. Right now got a piece of crap Murray from 91.
I've heard alot of people on this site also recomend JD JX75 i think?? 6hp Kaw motor i think 5spd. Havent checked at the dealer yet for pricing.
Matt

grassdaddy
12-22-2002, 08:48 PM
i have 2 of the home depot jd's 500 apiece and pure junk.foresure get something like the exmark,toro,com.lawnboy.
jd does make a good one with a kaw. 5spd, and steel wheels it's about 1000.you sure get what you pay for here,i had to learn the hard way. :p

mklawnman
12-22-2002, 08:51 PM
HOw much for a Toro compared to the JD JX75? Anyone know? $1000 little steep, but ive also heard they sell for $800 so who knows.
Matt

Mowingman
12-22-2002, 09:16 PM
The JD JX75 is an excellent machine. I have 4 of them and they get used hard every day of mowing season. The 75 is just one step down from the "commercial" JX85. THe 75 and 85 are exactly the same mower except the 85 has steel wheel centers, adjuster reinforcement brackets, a wear guard on the bottom lip of the deck, and an oil filter. I have run both, but have switched to the 75's. They cost less, are a little lighter, and all the added features of the 85 can be bolted right on the 75 later if you feel you need them. The Toro commercial and the JD commercial are almost exactly the same price here. The 75 is about $200.00 cheaper.:)

crazygator
12-22-2002, 09:43 PM
I have the same as mowingman, but I do not use the 21", except on a church bank and maybe a few other places. The use I get is only a couple of times on a season. I cannot see investing a lot when only using a very very small amount of time.

But on the other hand, if you have a lot of area's to use the 21", then I would get the best money could buy.....within reason. If your using everyday then you want something that will not only perform well, but do this everyday.

I too cannot see investing money 2 or 3 times a season for a disposable 21". Get one that will last and take care of it.

rkbrown
12-22-2002, 09:57 PM
Toro proline 21" with Suzuki 2 cycle engine here. Great mulching ability.

bubble boy
12-22-2002, 11:27 PM
check out lawn boy for push.

Ryan Lightning
12-22-2002, 11:30 PM
The Honda HR216 is a great mower. (if you dont need to mulch) and will probally out last anything else. You can get it with a hydro drive, so theres no gears to change. Lots of power, and can go faster than you can walk with a little adjusting. It is a little heavy, about 160 lbs i think. Around here, I think everyone has a Honda, Ive only seen a few Toros on a trailer.

DLCS
12-23-2002, 02:09 AM
I purchased a LanwBoy Silver Pro Series this spring. So far I haven't had any problems with it. I just use it for some really steep ditches though. I think I paid around $300.00 for the mower.


Mike

Wesley's Lawn
12-23-2002, 02:21 AM
I second what Mowingman said. I have a JX75 and i love the thing its what i started out with its about 4 years old and starts on the first pull.

Lawn Cops
12-23-2002, 04:20 AM
i have a commercial snapper with te 6hp robin. Its a good mower but i believe the toro does everything better. my nest one will be toro with the 2 cyc.

Jim
Lawn Cops

PaulJ
12-23-2002, 05:52 AM
If you want a toro with the 2-strock, you better hurry. They wont be makng any more after the first of these engines after the first of the year (EPA regs):blob2:

Susuki is crancking them out as fast as they can so thee will be enough for the 2003 model year. I heard that toromight offer honda engins after that but it's probably just a rumore??

the Kaw on the toros is a good engine also.

dbrody
12-23-2002, 04:56 PM
I have the Toro 4 cycle Kawasaki with blade brake clutch. Great mulcher. Starts 1st pull.

The only issue I have had with it is when the temperature gets hot (85-90) it appears to vapor lock - runs very rough or not at all.
On cooler days it runs great! Any thoughts??

Dave

FrankenScagMachines
12-23-2002, 05:01 PM
For general discharging and mulching with a push type, I would say Lawn Boy, they are lightweight, strong, indestructable and you can run them at any angle, no filters to change, they are very simple and you can run them off of your trimmer and blower fuel mix. For a nice bagger that is self propelled, Toro makes a great one that is super nice. I guess it's the exact same as an eXmark Metro 21" though. I know Honda also makes premium 21" mowers. Those are probably the top 3, Lawn Boy, Toro and Honda. John Deere's supposed to make a good one but I don't know much about them and you'll see more of these others than them around.
Eric

IBGreen
12-23-2002, 05:02 PM
I used a Toro proline 21" with the 5.5 Suzuki 2-stroke the other day. And I will not buy any other 21 " mower that thing was awesome! If I had the money I'd buy five!

GLS
12-23-2002, 05:22 PM
My vote goes to jx75. I think they go for about $800, but I paid $700 with a discount. The kawasaki is a great engine, lots of power. The deck hasn't clogged once (2 seasons). I like the 5 speed...generally run on 4 but have gone down to 1-2 in thick grass/leaves. Another great feature is the blade clutch, it works great.

This mower is excellent at bagging, and fair-good at mulching.

Would I buy a second? Yes

xpnd
12-23-2002, 11:11 PM
Have twelve 21" Toros with the 2 stroke. Suz engine on the ground and ten short blocks and carbs on the shelf until the manufactures get these emissions restrictions sorted out. If I were offerring bagging service I would have Hondas. Toro seems to have the market on quality of cut when mulching and Honda on effective bagging. When Toro began trying to compete with Honda on their 4 stroke machine appearance there were plenty of problems with vapor lock. The aerodynamic shroud significantly cut down on air flow significantly increasing heat retention. They may work good in the northern climates but when it pushes 95 degrees at 10am, the 4 strokers can become quite a pain. The perrenial problem and design weakness with Toro, 4 stroke or 2, is the difficulty in the height adjustment for the front wheels. Either the assembly becomes so loose so that the wheel goes out of adjustment while on the job or it continues to progessively tighten until it seizes up to a point of requiring the use of a hammer to move the assembly up or down. The small "tit" on the spring arm of this assembly is also a weak point. Beyond the routine and very effective application of a short bungee cord between the two spring arms, I have been working on my own shop solutions to these problems for the last ten years. This year I may have solved the problem to the point of applying for a patent.

Simone Lawn Service
12-24-2002, 12:19 AM
I bought my first mower a Honda HRC215 fours seasons ago. About had a heart attack paying the seven or eight hundred dollars it costed me back then, but it payed for itself several times in the first season. Now I am doing larger lawns and don't use it very often. I can't say enough about it-no major problems at all. I think I'm going to get a new one this winter-thought about the Toro-I've heard it's also an excellent mower and priced about the same at my local dealer, we'll see , the dealer acts like their about six of one half a dozen of the other, both excellent. I interested to see what everyone else says as well.
Don't buy a cheap mower, or you'll regret it. It WILL pay for itself and serve you well if you maintain it. I know it's scary dishing out that kind of money if your just starting out, but they really are worth the money.;)

MTR
12-24-2002, 01:09 AM
21" Lawn boy with 6.5 hp Duraforce 2 cycle engine (cast iron cyl) is what I use. So far so good. It is great on areas like steep hills which many of my accounts are, you don't have to worry about oil in engine like 4 stroke, it runs good on even hotter days during summer and it mulches and discharges very good even set height at 3.5", besides lot cheaper than Toro 21" 2 cycle proline.

GarPA
12-24-2002, 05:41 AM
Hondas...well heres an equipment topic I can finally offer some personal experience on...been running Hondas for 10 years.
1. engines are problem free
2. bag system is the best
3. easy to change height
4. needs at least one more height adjustment(higher)
5. bogs down with or without mulching kit on
6. related to #5....not good in wet conditions.

I love their engines but I think their deck design is not deep enough or something.... even my dealer thinks they are not aggressive enough in the mower end of their empire...he said if they put a little thought into deck redesign they would have the best 21 out there......but I dont think mowers are high on their priority list....as said above.....buy the BEST 21 you can find....you will truly get only what you pay for ...if I buy another 21 it will be the Toro proline

walker-talker
12-24-2002, 08:01 AM
I have the JX85. It's 6 years old and just recently I need to pull twice to get it started. It's a pretty good all around mower. The problems I have had (and others, from what I ahve read here) are 1) transmission problems.....i have no 5th gear anymore and hard to get into 4th, but I try to just leave it there. 2) The bar the engages the transmission has a problem staying attached. This is no real big deal, but I have lost it twice in transport, once not being able to find it. I did recently replace the throttle cable, but that was probably just normal wear.

It does bag well and decent mulching. I am not sure what I will go with next, might consider the Honda. One with a seperate blade cluth is a considerable feature. To those Honda users, do they have this feature?

MATT

Mowingman
12-24-2002, 09:37 AM
walker talker,
Do not change to a Honda after using the JD jx85. I can assure you that you will be very unhappy. I made that mistake about 5 years ago. As you know, the JD will plow right through the toughest mowing conditions because that Kawasaki engine will just not quit in thick grass. However, you will find the Hondas to be gutless. I don't care what the HP rating is on the Honda, it will not mulch thick or wet grass. The Honda leaves a nice cut, and is great for bagging, but I found it to be one sorry mower for heavy work. Speaking of heavy, it is much heavier than the JD. I wasted a lot of money on that top-of-the-line Honda. Dumped it for what I could get and have stuck with JD's since. The only other mower I have found that will lug through the tough stuff like the JD jx85/jx75 mowers, is the Toro with the Kawasaki 4 stroke engine, but I don't like their blade brake syatem. The 2 stroke Toros are just as gutless as the Hondas. I am commenting on this from past experience, not just from hearsay.:D

Gene $immons
12-24-2002, 10:20 AM
I have always used Toro 21" proline, 2 cycle. Great mowers. In my first couple years, we couldnt yet afford a large mower, and we used the Toro's for some large properties. Keep an eye on the air filter.

Clay
12-24-2002, 10:31 PM
While I have nevered owned a John Deere, I have owned plenty of Hondas and Toros...

I used to have a honda and a toro sitting side by and would grab the honda for bagging and the toro for mulching... that's the best setup, but if you can only have one, you need to decide which application you will be using most... I started mulching more and more, thereby using the toro most of the time.... The toro also has a more upright handle which makes the turns tighter.

I simply don't think you can beat a honda engine, but if you go with the toro you will like two stroke for hillsides and easier mows, but the Briggs is actually stronger than my Kawi... (I would have never believed it myself if I didn't have each to compare side to side....)

Because I normally mulch over bagging, the best overall performer would have to be the Briggs Toro... (Yeah, I'm surprised too... lol)

Clay

Lawn Cops
12-25-2002, 10:59 AM
at the GIE in Nashville, TORO had a model,2003 I was told, with a 6hp honda engine on it. they could not say when it would be at the dealers but the reps at the show said it would be produced in 2003.

Jim
Lawn Cops

joed
12-25-2002, 11:34 AM
I have both the John Deere JX85 and the Toro and I think both are excellent machines. Here are my findings with both:
John Deere
Advantages.
Kawasaki motor (starts on first pull, very reliable)
Leaves an outstanding cut
side discharges relatively well.
Decent mulcher.
With rpms turned to 3600, blows through small lawns at a very high rate of speed.
Disadvantages
bag is too small
lever that controls blade/brake clutch falls off
tranny can get a little picky

Toro
Advantages,
Briggs engine has performed surprisingly well and is more powerful than the Kawasaki.
Excellent bagger
Superb mulcher.

Disadvantages
Bag is a pain to empty into regular garbage/yard waste bags.
tranny seems to need constant readjusting.
Cut is good but not like John Deere.

I have also used a Lawn Boy before. I like its side discharge capabilities but the staggered wheel design always seemed to scalp on uneven surfaces.

bluemoon
12-25-2002, 11:36 AM
FS Lawn,
I have run, Husky's, Lawn Boy(this machine weighed 65lbs & I am told they don't make anymore), Honda's, Snapper's, and now I run a Toro Proline, 2cyl.Suzuki. This Toro mows great, the ergonomics of engaging blade and self-propelled is a little awkward getting used to. I would recommend the Toro overall. It is a great mower. My dealer recommends the atomic blades for bagging, mulching, and I have been using a gator blade. I had to grind one of the inside teeth, now works great. The gator mulches awesome, and if I have to bag it reduces the amount of debris in bag. I think the gator has a good enough lift , that it does a good job of lifting the grass blade to insure a good cut and final appearance.
The Toro won't disappoint you.
Good Luck
Bluemoon

edward hedrick
12-25-2002, 09:56 PM
Made my own put a 5 kawi on MTD dome mulcher, added bearing

wheels. Being a 20" fits next to my 52 wb in front of trailer. Ed

corban
12-25-2002, 10:33 PM
I'm happy with my JX75 after its first year of usage. It also just recieved the #1 push mower award from consumer reports for 2003. Consumers don't lie.

alaska315
10-29-2007, 04:00 AM
I bought my first mower a Honda HRC215 fours seasons ago. About had a heart attack paying the seven or eight hundred dollars it costed me back then, but it payed for itself several times in the first season. Now I am doing larger lawns and don't use it very often. I can't say enough about it-no major problems at all. I think I'm going to get a new one this winter-thought about the Toro-I've heard it's also an excellent mower and priced about the same at my local dealer, we'll see , the dealer acts like their about six of one half a dozen of the other, both excellent. I interested to see what everyone else says as well.
Don't buy a cheap mower, or you'll regret it. It WILL pay for itself and serve you well if you maintain it. I know it's scary dishing out that kind of money if your just starting out, but they really are worth the money.;)

I have read these posts for years and decided to join after reading this old post you made,and couldn't help but comment on it.
Your a good person and a hardworker,and I have watched you grow your business and yourself over the past years as I have also watched others do in the Ft Wayne area,and I have watched many fail,and you have kept right on growing and learning and sharing,and you are to be complimented for that,but I think it's important to note that the fact is you never paid 700 or 800 for that first Honda mower or most of your other start-up equipment.
Someone who loved you very much maxed out a 5k credit card so you wouldn't eat fish for a day,but could fish for a lifetime.
I was there in New Haven when he made that call with the card number for you.
There's far more to this story and I won't use this forum to discuss it,as I am not making this post to condem you.But I will say,I have known that man that helped you longer than I have known you,and like all of us,he has made mistakes in life,not unlike you did with that posting.
He did what he set out to do for you,and that was to help you,and you repaid him by ripping his heart out.
No one is perfect in this life,not me,him or you,but I would hope that everytime you look at that old Honda,you will remember what that gift of love and encouragement has given you in monetary returns thru the years.
Sometimes the best parents are the ones that give tough love.I wish I had with my own kids.:hammerhead:

TPnTX
10-29-2007, 06:49 AM
I have a question. We do mostly larger properties and some commercial. Our 21" mower has mostly been used for trim meaning we in go in with it 1st and hit up close to the building, edging, trees, etc. Then either the 36" WB or 44" ZTR to complete the mow.

So being used mostly for trim, we got by for a long time with a cheapo-toro PP. Next season we plan to step up on the residential and the Toro PP finally die. Actually I killed it and I decided to get a Toro 21" commercial with the Kawasaki. No doubt a durable machine it's a tank but man what a decrease in productivity over the cheap-0 for trim.

In terms of start/stop back/forth in/out type trim mowing which commercial grade machine is good for that? Certainly not the Toro.

Next question, the toro has a 3 speed and I don't really get it. First the shift lever on it is pretty flemsy but my question is what good is 3rd gear? Do you use 3rd and throttle down to adjust the speed. I mean it's seems too fast to be useful and I feel 2nd gear with higher RPM for the blade speed would be better than throttleing back.

I know I'm missing something so I hoped I could get some much needed input here.

I do think I'm going to get a PP for trim next year. I don't regret buying the Toro commericial, it completes my rig but I miss the nimble performance of the PP even though it's desposable.

DLCS
10-29-2007, 07:56 AM
I have read these posts for years and decided to join after reading this old post you made,and couldn't help but comment on it.
Your a good person and a hardworker,and I have watched you grow your business and yourself over the past years as I have also watched others do in the Ft Wayne area,and I have watched many fail,and you have kept right on growing and learning and sharing,and you are to be complimented for that,but I think it's important to note that the fact is you never paid 700 or 800 for that first Honda mower or most of your other start-up equipment.
Someone who loved you very much maxed out a 5k credit card so you wouldn't eat fish for a day,but could fish for a lifetime.
I was there in New Haven when he made that call with the card number for you.
There's far more to this story and I won't use this forum to discuss it,as I am not making this post to condem you.But I will say,I have known that man that helped you longer than I have known you,and like all of us,he has made mistakes in life,not unlike you did with that posting.
He did what he set out to do for you,and that was to help you,and you repaid him by ripping his heart out.
No one is perfect in this life,not me,him or you,but I would hope that everytime you look at that old Honda,you will remember what that gift of love and encouragement has given you in monetary returns thru the years.
Sometimes the best parents are the ones that give tough love.I wish I had with my own kids.:hammerhead:



Wow, what a first post. Perhaps you should have talked this over face to face instead of blasting him on this forum in a 5 year old thread. I doubt he would even see this post since he hasn't been logged in since September 2004.

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-29-2007, 10:11 AM
Wow, what a first post. Perhaps you should have talked this over face to face instead of blasting him on this forum in a 5 year old thread. I doubt he would even see this post since he hasn't been logged in since September 2004.

Hey, I liked it. It's disgusting how many liars and fabricators-of-truth there are out there. Pathetic how many ungrateful, smug, self-satisfied sacks-of-crap this nation consists of.

What would this world be like if we were all honest? Besides, sometimes it's all about closure. Perhaps venting here will keep him from blowing up in person... or on the phone (since the mileage between them is significant).

BRING ON THE DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alaska315
10-29-2007, 01:05 PM
Thankyou for the response altho it wasn't intended to vent as I could have done that face to face in private as he does business with my shop here in Ft Wayne.,but then possibly the mistruth's would continue.
It was meant to correct the wayward mentions of his on this forum in the hopes he will not do it again in a public place.I think you see my point.
And granted,it is years later as I purused the site that I noticed the post,but either way,it needed to be said,and granted he may never see or even think about the post as it has been a few years since he even logged in,but maybe,just maybe,someone else in a similar situation will see it and think about a kind deed a loved one did for them,and do what they should to make it right,and it has nothing to do with money.It's about family.Have a great week.

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-29-2007, 02:33 PM
It's about family.

That's a major philosopy of my church (I'm LDS... just in case my Utah location didn't give it away).

Anyhow, good for you...

By the way, if you're in Indiana, why does your location indicate Alaska?

saw man
10-29-2007, 03:12 PM
If it is a family issue then you should stay out of it.

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-29-2007, 03:28 PM
saw man:
Where in UT are you located?

saw man
10-29-2007, 03:32 PM
I live in Tooele area, Stansbury Park.

I have a sister that lives in Smithfield.

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-29-2007, 03:36 PM
Cool. I have a bro-in-law that lives in Tooele. How's business for you?

saw man
10-29-2007, 03:40 PM
Goin good. They have any good dealers up there?

Gene $immons
10-29-2007, 03:41 PM
Hello Sawman and whoopassonthebluegrass.

I'm glad that you have found each other in this old thread.

Notice the Private message feature on Lawn site, it is useful for personal chitchat. This helps reduce "thread hijacking"

Regards,

Gene

saw man
10-29-2007, 03:46 PM
This thread has already been hijacked by someone that seems to feel the need to get into this guys personal life.

Next time PM me if you have a problem! :)

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-29-2007, 06:58 PM
This thread has already been hijacked by someone that seems to feel the need to get into this guys personal life.

Next time PM me if you have a problem! :)

Haha. Good one.

In short, no. Dealers in Cache Valley can be counted on 1 finger... and all they offer are Snapper and Walker - neither of which I'm a fan of... and these guys, due to their local monopoly, charge a fortune.

I have to go to Ogden for supplies. I'm a Toro guy, myself. Not necessarily because I love the machines, but because their price point is so attractive when it comes time to buy a new machine. I always promise myself I'll upgrade to hydro's and Z's... but I just can't seem to part with the money...

heeeres_johnny
03-21-2008, 09:56 PM
I bought a JD JX85 a few years back. And its worth its weight in gold. It is self propelled and will cut and bag like a dream. Its very heavy duty, unlike these Home Depot John Deeres--they're not in the same class. I paid $1000 5 years ago. I know that seems high but its been worth it. I haven't used the Toro so I cant comment on it.

Frue
03-21-2008, 10:52 PM
Toro by far. I own the metro and the toro. I like the metro for the features but the toro mulches better.