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Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 10:28 AM
I know we talked about this on another thread but I figured I should start another separate thread.
Background- 3-4 year (from when we installed it) orchard with trees from 1 year old to 5 years old. All trees have a 3' "well" around them to hold water. We will be adding mulch after irrigation to help with the water retention.
1. How many gallons does each tree require per watering?
2. I am planning on installing 2 bubblers per tree at the lowest GPM (.25 unless we can go with a lower GPM) on 4 or 6" popups or on the end of a 12" riser. Will this work or should I go with a different option? When we dig the hole for the head we will go all the way down to the root zone and then backfill with some type of mulch or other absorbent material.

Thanks in advance!
Mike

Wet_Boots
05-21-2012, 10:45 AM
If you are going to combine a bubbler and a popup head, you can try a combination with the special Rainbird PCS screens, and a 15EST nozzle, or better yet, a 5QB bubbler nozzle, which shoots two streams at a 60 degree angle from each other.

The PCS screens are color coded and will restrict maximum flow to a set value - Rainbird has a chart showing what distances you get with various combinations

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 12:11 PM
Could you provide a link? I am not finding them on the RB site. I was going hunter but I can go RB if its better.
Would the popup be better than the 12" riser in this scenario?

Wet_Boots
05-21-2012, 12:20 PM
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/sprayBodies/1800PCS.htm (http://badgerbadgerbadger.com/)

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 12:31 PM
I've had sucess with trees using a "four poster" arrangement with the 6" heads far enough away to not wet the bark continously. A must would be a simple 36"" moisture meter to get the application rates started.

www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=3052

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 01:20 PM
1401 nozzle??? http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/sprayNozzles/1400PCbubbler.htm

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 01:22 PM
1300 does .10 GPM but I think its for risers only...correct me if I am wrong
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/sprayNozzles/1300AFbubbler.htm

Wet_Boots
05-21-2012, 01:40 PM
If you can have the heads right near the trees, then why not standard bubblers on risers?

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 01:44 PM
If you can have the heads right near the trees, then why not standard bubblers on risers?

I have no problem with bubblers, as long as the application is even. I've seen way too many bubbler applications where one side of the plant was saturated and the other was dry as a bone.

Sprinkus
05-21-2012, 02:02 PM
1300 does .10 GPM but I think its for risers only...correct me if I am wrong
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/sprayNozzles/1300AFbubbler.htm

The PA-80 adapter (http://www.rainbird.com/images/products/turf/sprays/PA-80.jpg) adapts those bubblers to pop-up threads.

jvanvliet
05-21-2012, 02:10 PM
What kind of fruit trees? How many inches of diameter and how many feet of trunk? What's the dripline and what type of soil?

Your local extension can help you with the watering requirements or you can click here (http://www.google.com)

When you say 3' well, you mean dam? Id say you can use a bubbler, if the soil reaches it's saturation point, the dam will fill up and allow the water to perculate evenly to the root zone.

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 02:43 PM
I have no problem with bubblers, as long as the application is even. I've seen way too many bubbler applications where one side of the plant was saturated and the other was dry as a bone.
I am doing 2 per tree.

If you can have the heads right near the trees, then why not standard bubblers on risers?
I'd rather have them below ground to keep them from being an eyesore. Either way is fine I guess.

What kind of fruit trees? How many inches of diameter and how many feet of trunk? What's the dripline and what type of soil?

Your local extension can help you with the watering requirements or you can click here (http://www.google.com)

When you say 3' well, you mean dam? Id say you can use a bubbler, if the soil reaches it's saturation point, the dam will fill up and allow the water to perculate evenly to the root zone.
Apple, plum, pear, peach, perssimon, etc. They are anywhere from 1/2"-2" in diameter. Dripline is about the same as the dam around the tree but varies due to different ages of tree. We are mulching around each tree post irrigation installation so that the mulch can retain the water long after the system has stopped running.
Mike

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 02:46 PM
Looked at the tech sheet for the 1300. Looks like that was a misprint on that page...the lowest it goes it .25 gpm which is what I have on order anyways.

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 02:54 PM
I am thinking of running each tree zone for 25 minutes once a week. Does this sound right??? I do not want to over water and therefore kill the trees.

Wet_Boots
05-21-2012, 02:55 PM
If you did go to the trouble of rolling your own with the PCS screens, you would have the ability of changing some or all of the restrictors as conditions change.

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 02:59 PM
True. At this point I'm already at 650.00 plus trencher rental so I may or may not do it just yet.

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 03:01 PM
I am thinking of running each tree zone for 25 minutes once a week. Does this sound right??? I do not want to over water and therefore kill the trees.

It all depends on the soil conditions and the amount of evaporation. You've got to measure the penetration and know the demand of the material. Application specs help, somewhat, but field measurement is the only way to know. :)

irrig8r
05-21-2012, 03:05 PM
I am thinking of running each tree zone for 25 minutes once a week. Does this sound right??? I do not want to over water and therefore kill the trees.

Sounds like a lot of water to me.

If the orchard is new, then the roots won't be deep and maybe once a week is good.

When the trees are more mature and bearing fruit, sounds like too often.

Talk to an ag extension agent if your county or state has one. They can point you in the right direction.

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 03:13 PM
If the orchard is new, then the roots won't be deep and maybe once a week is good.

Buy the probe.

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 03:16 PM
Buy the probe.
I have one..system needs to be in first!!!!

Sounds like a lot of water to me.

If the orchard is new, then the roots won't be deep and maybe once a week is good.

When the trees are more mature and bearing fruit, sounds like too often.

Talk to an ag extension agent if your county or state has one. They can point you in the right direction.
Its only 5 gallons per tree if it runs 20 minutes (.25X20=5).
Some of the trees are at bearing age. Some are just planted this year because we added a row and filled in the holes where we lost trees to the drought. I will talk to the ag agent but unfortunately do not think they will be much help. But its worth a try.

Kiril
05-21-2012, 04:37 PM
::backs quickly out of thread .... already tried on this one::

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 05:14 PM
::backs quickly out of thread .... already tried on this one::

Wait! Don't go yet, should he prune the plums in the spring?

jvanvliet
05-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Buy the probe.

PROBE? to see if it's wet? Oooh:eek:

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 05:29 PM
PROBE? to see if it's wet? Oooh:eek:

That would be in the special order pdf advanced instruction manual.

jvanvliet
05-21-2012, 05:37 PM
1/2" to 2" and bearing fruit? Wow, not like citrus in Florida. I'd make sure your mulch is not up against the trunk.

Check out these sites for some more info;

http://umaine.edu/publications/2411e/

http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/8048.pdf

http://www.sunset.com/garden/fruits-veggies/planting-caring-fruit-trees-00400000023163/

jvanvliet
05-21-2012, 05:38 PM
That would be in the special order pdf advanced instruction manual.

Sold, I'll take two. Don't wrap them, I'll eat them here.

Mike Leary
05-21-2012, 05:42 PM
Sold, I'll take two. Don't wrap them, I'll eat them here.

"We have a special on hot sauce today, with prune glaze".

jvanvliet
05-21-2012, 06:15 PM
"We have a special on hot sauce today, with prune glaze".

Excellent, two saucy and hot... prune glaze, does that go well with MILF and cookies?:p

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-21-2012, 07:22 PM
I am doing 2 per tree.


I'd rather have them below ground to keep them from being an eyesore. Either way is fine I guess.


Apple, plum, pear, peach, perssimon, etc. They are anywhere from 1/2"-2" in diameter. Dripline is about the same as the dam around the tree but varies due to different ages of tree. We are mulching around each tree post irrigation installation so that the mulch can retain the water long after the system has stopped running.
Mike

Are they still trying to grow trees that need chill time in east Texas? I've seen that debacle before. Plums and pears will work but apples and peaches?

Mikegyver
05-21-2012, 11:59 PM
1/2" to 2" and bearing fruit? Wow, not like citrus in Florida. I'd make sure your mulch is not up against the trunk.

Check out these sites for some more info;

http://umaine.edu/publications/2411e/

http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/8048.pdf

http://www.sunset.com/garden/fruits-veggies/planting-caring-fruit-trees-00400000023163/
The 2" are putting on a small amount of fruit (pears and peaches) but the 1/2" ones are no where close
The mulch will be kept below the graft.

Are they still trying to grow trees that need chill time in east Texas? I've seen that debacle before. Plums and pears will work but apples and peaches?
Yep. Right north of me is a huge peach growing area several large farms. We have special varieties that will do well with only 400 or less chill hrs. This past winter was warm but usually we have a cool winter...this isnt florida!!
Mike

Mikegyver
02-18-2013, 12:22 AM
Was looking at an orchard a few weeks ago that we are setting bees at...they had a spray head at each tree. After seeing that I am now thinking about doing this...on the established trees run a 8 or 10' spray head about 4-5' from the truck, this will cover the root zone. On the younger trees I will do the same thing except do the hunter drip retrofit kit. When they get larger just swap out for a spray nozzle. Any thoughts on this? It certainly would be a less expensive/labor intensive vs having to put 2 bubblers per tree. Also, it would eliminate issues related to having a bubbler so close to the truck as the tree gets larger.

Mike Leary
02-18-2013, 08:31 PM
There's only two ways to do it. Turf or weeds should never be allowed close to the trunk; compost should be spread out in a ring to the mature drip zone. Mulitiple drip (Netafim) in rings will work well, as will a "four poster" set of spray heads, set as to not hit the bark.

Mikegyver
02-18-2013, 10:47 PM
http://www.hunterindustries.com/irrigation-product/micro-irrigation/root-zone-watering-system
Anyone used these? Cost?

irrig8r
02-20-2013, 02:37 AM
There's only two ways to do it. Turf or weeds should never be allowed close to the trunk; compost should be spread out in a ring to the mature drip zone. Mulitiple drip (Netafim) in rings will work well, as will a "four poster" set of spray heads, set as to not hit the bark.

The compost/ mulch idea sounds good, except that when we did it we got a lot of earwigs. Two heads, one on either side of the trunk in the row with 270 deg. patterns, some overlapping but missing the trunk is how I'd use spray heads.

Mikegyver
02-20-2013, 10:12 AM
The compost/ mulch idea sounds good, except that when we did it we got a lot of earwigs. Two heads, one on either side of the trunk in the row with 270 deg. patterns, some overlapping but missing the trunk is how I'd use spray heads.
Please expound. I don't see how they would miss the tree????

Mike Leary
02-20-2013, 01:47 PM
I'd still be leaning towards Netafim rings, that way the rings could be expanded out as the drip line increased. Buying compost and mulch can be dicey, depends on the supplier, but it's worth doing the research.

Mikegyver
02-20-2013, 02:14 PM
I'd still be leaning towards Netafim rings, that way the rings could be expanded out as the drip line increased. Buying compost and mulch can be dicey, depends on the supplier, but it's worth doing the research.
The main deal killer is getting mulch for 25 trees, probably looking at around 5-6 trees per yard if that. Right now they each have a well around them that we keep weedeated and they are doing fine. To be honest I'm leaning towards a 8' spray head on the uphill side of each tree. Granted I would never install something like that on a customer's place, but this is my orchard, and anything beats hand watering. I need to keep the materials cost reasonable and not too labor intensive.

Wet_Boots
02-20-2013, 02:41 PM
Please expound. I don't see how they would miss the tree????http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8841/orchardsprays270.png

Mike Leary
02-20-2013, 02:47 PM
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8841/orchardsprays270.png

Wrong, uneven application. Plus, as the trunk expanded, the heads would have to be moved outward. :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
02-20-2013, 03:01 PM
If you know another way the suggested 270 degree nozzles would have been placed, let us know.

Mike Leary
02-20-2013, 03:09 PM
If you know another way the suggested 270 degree nozzles would have been placed, let us know.

I don't know, that's why I've used a "four poster" design and a multiple program or cycle and soak to get deep watering without runoff. :)

Wet_Boots
02-20-2013, 03:33 PM
I could see using three 240-degree nozzles, to even out the overlap.

Mike Leary
02-20-2013, 03:38 PM
I still like the multiple Netafim rings.

Rotor_Tool
02-25-2013, 08:35 PM
Why not use drip (either inline emitter tubing or individual emitters evenly spaced around the treewell)? Why spend the money on spray heads and bubblers? Drip components are cheap, provide a ton of flexibility with emission rates, and can be added on to or deducted from if water requirements change.

Cloud9Landscapes
02-26-2013, 04:15 AM
Mike,

I like the idea of using bubbler nozzles on a pop-up head for this project. Consider digging some wells around the trees to assure that they retain water. I personally don't like the Rain Bird 1400 series bubblers and I hate the fact they require a pa-80 adapter to work with a spray head. And after that they stick up.

I much prefer the Hunter bubbler nozzles because they retract into the spray head body like a normal nozzle does. It also protects it and keeps it clean. They are also pressure compensating and come in multiple GPM's
http://www.hunterindustries.com/irrigation-product/nozzles/bubblers-bubbler-nozzles
If I was doing this I would do two or three .25 or .5 GPM nozzles per tree and set it up as flood irrigation.

Mikegyver
02-26-2013, 01:33 PM
Why not use drip (either inline emitter tubing or individual emitters evenly spaced around the treewell)? Why spend the money on spray heads and bubblers? Drip components are cheap, provide a ton of flexibility with emission rates, and can be added on to or deducted from if water requirements change.
I am not a fan of drip. We have used it for years in other ag stuff. For starters drip doesn't handle weedeating well. I'm experienced and try to be careful but I still hit the stuff. It never fails. With that said, I'm not opposed to it.

Mike,

I like the idea of using bubbler nozzles on a pop-up head for this project. Consider digging some wells around the trees to assure that they retain water. I personally don't like the Rain Bird 1400 series bubblers and I hate the fact they require a pa-80 adapter to work with a spray head. And after that they stick up.

I much prefer the Hunter bubbler nozzles because they retract into the spray head body like a normal nozzle does. It also protects it and keeps it clean. They are also pressure compensating and come in multiple GPM's
http://www.hunterindustries.com/irrigation-product/nozzles/bubblers-bubbler-nozzles
If I was doing this I would do two or three .25 or .5 GPM nozzles per tree and set it up as flood irrigation.
Thanks. I'm still on the fence with it all. My only beef right now (as mentioned before by another poster) is that its a pain to move bubbler heads when the tree gets bigger and the watering requirements change.

So there's no right answer to this question, I guess I need to really weigh the options and pic the best way to go.