The design of this mower and especially the UpperCut deck really has my interest... A few questions if I may...
The 23hp Kawi has more torque than the 25 Kohler?
Does the 23 Kawi come on the 48" deck?
What is the biggest engine option on the 48" deck?
Will there be a Honda option soon?
Does the deck have a quick lift for loading onto a trailer or moving over obstacles from one turf area to another?
What is the range of cut?
Why do you vary the number of upper cut blades?
Can rocks or other items be dangerously discharged?
How do you get under the deck to clean, change blades, etc.?
Are the upper blades hard to change and sharpen?
Does that upper chamber get clogged with grass or items like sticks lodged?
Can you no longer stand and lean??? Do you have to stay seated?
What is the total weight with a 48" deck and bac vac?
Working on the Oregon Coast creates a challenge with the wet conditions so weight is a big issue... will there be a more powerful option in the walk behinds (big Honda maybe :) to support mowing and pulling a Pro-Slide? And is it a baffled mulching system on your walk behinds??? I have been using Toro's for mulching for years as nothing else seems to really be a true mulcher...
Hope at least some of these questions can get answered... (Alot I know... lol)
08-01-2003, 08:46 AM
well Clay you hit the right guy
I have a Short Cut Upper Deck 48 with 25 kohler.
First Place, the Short Cut is going out of production. Seem to be a patent issue with another stander/rider (Walker in MD.). Now that people are forced to sit, the Short Cut looses appeal. The killer is it is easy to connect two wires and make it into a sit or stand mower again, But Hustler will on deliver it as a sitter, if you stand, it shuts down. The relay to stop that would have to be by passes by the owner.
The 25 kohler is the top hp but the 23 Kawi has a drop more torque. No more Kohlers at the factory.
My dealer had both and said the Kohler was better in tall grass, might have been in his head, who knows.
Nothing gets stuck in the upper deck, you
might get something stuck in the tunnel to the bag if you drop rpm's. gut if you have 11 blades on the deck the force is very strong.
There is a bar to lift the whole deck at once near your right hand but 4 pins for deck height , so yes, I pull my deck up to get over curbs but I get off and pull 4 pins to change height. I forget the deck height, I never use the top setting.
The upper deck is a small 14 inch (about) round deck in the middle of the large three blade main deck and is welded on top. You can set it up to have 0,2,4,6,8 blades. Your discharge is out the back, not on the side so you get balanced air flow . All main blades get fairly even access to the exit hole of the upper deck. Of course the center blade gets the most but an upper deck is more even than a sice discharge. The farthest blade to a side discharge has the biggest problem. You also have the ability to trim on both sides of the deck. I would not go wild on this issue, sice discharges these day work fine with baffels and high hp. engines, it just the upper desk chops it finer and hides the mess better but since your deck is doing more it will need lower ground speed if you go 8 blades. Two blades will allow you to pick up ground speed but your discharge will be bigger chunks.
I use 4 blades for normal cutting, I go up to eight for fall leaves. When you match the torque of either kohler or Kawi to eight blades, in the upper deck and 3 main blades, the vacumn and mulching is very high.
For high grass, like on the side of a high way, not a residence, the short cut will fall short. You will have to drop ground speed as the upper deck chops the mess a few times before spitting out the back. The lower deck does not want to cut 100% until the upper deck clears out the grass. Dropping the blades to 2 will speed things up but I only like changing the upper deck twice a season. It can take 25 minutes. I just do 4 blades and then to 8 in the fall. If your aim is to do a residence then the upper deck will chop and distribute tiny clippings which get thrown out the back like a ducks tail. The upper deck is good if rain stalled you from a 7 day cut and you have to come back on the 11th. It will process the mess well usually without a second cut but if you stay on a 7 day schedule, the upper deck is marginal and in "general" will not match the speed of a side discharge unless you go to 2 blades, and my guess is the side discharge will still edge it out in ground speed only.
As far as Hustler getting into a patent dispute with Walker on the stand/sit situation, yes that is true. If you buy one of the shortcuts it will go to cut off if you stand. The older shortcuts had foot pads the kept the dead man circut on. Not hard to by pass if you want to stand again. Two wires need to be connected. Ask Cajuncutter. You'll see him post.
The are three different types of upper cut blades. The duel wing has the most tornado to it and will come with the new machind. You don't sharpen them. They look like small 4 inch blades but with no edge, just a upper wing in back and a down turned wing in the front for the duel wing ones. They can cut so much, they will turn wet grass to slurry. You really have to back off to 4 blades or cut dry. In Fall the Short Cut reduces leaves more than anything out there. A leaf turns somewhere to dust to max. 1/4 inch chunks. You dump form the seat and cars going past the piles at 35mph will not move them. In some towns the vacumn, so a plus here in CT. If i dump on a tarp and lift the pile into my truck, I find it to be close to 130lbs so your better off leaving piles in the woods. It will hold a lot of crap for such a little mower.
If you have a lot of hills, get a walk behind. The short cuts ability is more forgiving to a sit down with all the body english you can throw at it but if you are 160 poinds vs. 260 pounds, you lose something. It climbs steep hill if you stand and lean forward, if you sit, it will wheely back on its wheely wheels in the back so you must be sure you can by pass the circut. If you can't stand on a shortcut, you lose the whole game unless you want a small package that does a lot.
For the money it is hard not to go for the Hustler Z's, but I like having a H bar over duel sticks. I like the weight transfer issue. I like the upper over side discharge. I like a bagger that fits trim to the back of the unit. The Z's look clumsy with a tube coming off the side. You lose ability into tight places and trimming on both sides of the deck. The short cut does a lot of things in a very small foot print and the H bar,again , is the best thing in the industry. If you are going Z, also look at Exmark, Ferris and of course Hustler. I think Bad Boy Mowers is also out your way. They are very tough.
Thank You very much for that incredible answer!!! WOW...
But as you can see I asked this question many months ago and got as much help to my question as I got from the dealer who wouldn't even respond to my direct messages :-(
I ended up looking for a walkbehind with proslide to keep the weight as low as possible for our soft, wet ground on the coast. I was considering the Hustler W/B or the Exmark and after again getting no help from my territory dealer, I ended up buying a TTHP with proslide and establishing another dealer for Exmark in the process... because Exmark helped from their end after posting on their forum....
I was really looking forward to one of those super w/b but never even got the chance to look at one...
Once again, great answer... let me know if there is something I can help you with... I've built and sold 8 landscape maintenance businesses and know a few things about marketing... send a pm if you like and i'll send you my email or phone number...
08-05-2003, 11:17 AM
marketing 8 times a lawn care company is way up there/
I would definately like to know how to start off a service and not fall on my jface and get the customers in close to the same area, . my e-mail is firstname.lastname@example.org
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