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View Full Version : Never Buy A PVC fitting again!


Mikegyver
05-24-2012, 12:11 AM
We know the people that have this company...just saw this video today. I got a chuckle out of it, then it got me to thinking. What do y'all think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QKkMM_b_Mc8

Stuttering Stan
05-24-2012, 12:30 AM
It's a trick I do daily. Heat up the end with a torch, jam a larger pipe in, and WALA- instant coupling
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Mikegyver
05-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Cool...I learned something. Can you cut that belled end off and use it like you would use a regular coupling?

ARGOS
05-24-2012, 01:30 AM
Hold on...I'm relighting my pipe.

mitchgo
05-24-2012, 01:50 AM
The longevity of that repair would play a big part in that. Disturbing the integrity of the piping like that can only go downhill as far as quality

There is something called ' Time vs Material' and that my time is more valuable then the cost of the pvc fitting. Even a 4" fitting...

DanaMac
05-24-2012, 04:09 AM
Hold on...I'm relighting my pipe.

Puff Puff Pass brotha. :laugh:

jvanvliet
05-24-2012, 07:19 AM
Dumb idea's conclude with the law of unintentional consequenses.

Is that a Hooka? I have one in the truck :p

grassman177
05-24-2012, 12:46 PM
What a moron.
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SoCalLandscapeMgmt
05-24-2012, 01:05 PM
Seems like a insane amount of work to not have to buy a $.22 fitting.

I have a funny story about this same thing though.... we lost an bid on a residential install (about a $2mil home) a couple of months back. There wasn't much landscape at all and we came in at about $42K for the irrigation and landscape. We work with the GC who is building the house and usually do all of his installs. The owner of the house wanted to use his "gardner" to do the install.... well.... Juan came in at $19K for the whole deal. I said let him have it, this should be funny! I talked to the GC the other day and he told me that he was watching this clown install the irrigation and he was out there with a heat gun and a torch heating up the 2" sch 40 irrigation main trying to bend it because he didn't want to use fittings!! The GC asked the guy what he was doing and he said "I'm bending the pipe to make it go around this corner". Should be funny when somebody has to fix it after it blows out!!

grassman177
05-24-2012, 04:28 PM
Holy cow.that is soooooo bad it is almost not funny
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rlitman
05-24-2012, 04:59 PM
. . . and he said "I'm bending the pipe to make it go around this corner". Should be funny when somebody has to fix it after it blows out!!

Ok, well while this is not an accepted method if you're using a torch, heat bending PVC pipe IS an acceptable method. There are heating blanket wraps that will heat the PVC without yellowing the surface, and if done right, it does not affect the strength of longevity of the PVC.
This is frequently done in underground conduit, both because fittings for larger pipes (say 4" conduit) are expensive, because fittings may not be available in the angle of bend you happen to need to line up with your trench, and because bent PVC can take a more graceful curve that is more conducive to wire pulling than even radiused elbows.

Look it up. Oh, and you should note that electrical PVC conduit (which is still schedule 40 or 80, and is fine for water), comes with one end belled out as a coupling already. This form of connection also less likely to snag a fish line (when used in the correct direction) than a coupling.

Mike Leary
05-24-2012, 05:07 PM
If you're skating on the edge of friction loss, the bell end must point upstream, it's just good practice. :)

BrandonV
05-24-2012, 05:25 PM
Seems like a insane amount of work to not have to buy a $.22 fitting.

nail on the head

jvanvliet
05-24-2012, 05:29 PM
Ok, I have to ask; why would you spend all that time, risk compromising the pipe and the weld to save a couple of bucks not buying a fitting?

Electrical counduit is not pressurized; most angled fittings usually come curved and I can't remember ever having to pull a line through an irrigation line.

Just saying.

Wet_Boots
05-24-2012, 06:10 PM
you haven't lived until you use an irrigation line to pull wire(s) through

jvanvliet
05-24-2012, 06:14 PM
you haven't lived until you use an irrigation line to pull wire(s) through

If I did pull a charged line through an irrigation line, how long would I live?

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
05-24-2012, 07:04 PM
Ok, well while this is not an accepted method if you're using a torch, heat bending PVC pipe IS an acceptable method. There are heating blanket wraps that will heat the PVC without yellowing the surface, and if done right, it does not affect the strength of longevity of the PVC.
This is frequently done in underground conduit, both because fittings for larger pipes (say 4" conduit) are expensive, because fittings may not be available in the angle of bend you happen to need to line up with your trench, and because bent PVC can take a more graceful curve that is more conducive to wire pulling than even radiused elbows.

Look it up. Oh, and you should note that electrical PVC conduit (which is still schedule 40 or 80, and is fine for water), comes with one end belled out as a coupling already. This form of connection also less likely to snag a fish line (when used in the correct direction) than a coupling.

yeah... I am familiar with this.... I've watched electricians use a hot box to bend 1/2" all the way up to 2" PVC conduit many times. I've just never known anybody to do it with an irrigation line, let alone a 2" pressurized main line on a site with close to 65# of static pressure. Just seems like you'd be asking for trouble.

Mike Leary
05-24-2012, 07:27 PM
yeah... I am familiar with this.... I've watched electricians use a hot box to bend 1/2" all the way up to 2" PVC conduit many times. I've just never known anybody to do it with an irrigation line, let alone a 2" pressurized main line on a site with close to 65# of static pressure. Just seems like you'd be asking for trouble.

Ditto.....I have gone to great lengths to avoid bending pvc, not that it can't be done, but if there is ever a break in the bend (especially at a fitting), someone is going to curse you to high heaven as they buy a case of 45s to get it fixed. :cry:

1idejim
05-24-2012, 07:51 PM
yeah... I am familiar with this.... I've watched electricians use a hot box to bend 1/2" all the way up to 2" PVC conduit many times. I've just never known anybody to do it with an irrigation line, let alone a 2" pressurized main line on a site with close to 65# of static pressure. Just seems like you'd be asking for trouble.

i have bent pipe using a blanket or hot box when plumbing pools, done it a lot, see it all the time.

pool lines are not pressureized when the pump is off and is classified as an "open system".

if you use a slip cap on each end of the pipe, the pipe will retain its shape and not kink or out of round. this is much better than stressing pipes in a ditch, the cost in labor is a trade off.

using this on constant pressure at high PSI.???? maybe a laterial?

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
05-24-2012, 07:57 PM
I think the thing that struck the GC about this is that it wasn't a gentle bend in the pipe.... it was a pretty hard turn that should have been made with fittings. I can totally see doing this on pond or pool plumbing though as like you said they are not under constant pressure and they are an open system...

Mike Leary
05-24-2012, 07:59 PM
I think the thing that struck the GC about this is that it wasn't a gentle bend in the pipe.... it was a pretty hard turn that should have been made with fittings.

Yup, either 45 your butt off, or switch to poly for the bend.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
05-24-2012, 08:05 PM
Yup, either 45 your butt off, or switch to poly for the bend.

well that was the other crazy thing... the site was wide open, nothing in his path... his trench curved and he was just being too lazy to straighten it..... oh well.... the guy bid the job for basically what the materials were going to cost me so the home owner gets what he deserves for being cheap.

Mike Leary
05-24-2012, 08:18 PM
the home owner gets what he deserves for being cheap.

AND, if your like me, you have a remarkable memory for names, locations and jobs you lost to the lowballers. "Umm, geez, Mr. Cheapskate, we are simply swamped and can't get there for six months, why don't you call the original contractor?" :laugh:

rlitman
05-25-2012, 03:17 PM
yeah... I am familiar with this.... I've watched electricians use a hot box to bend 1/2" all the way up to 2" PVC conduit many times. I've just never known anybody to do it with an irrigation line, let alone a 2" pressurized main line on a site with close to 65# of static pressure. Just seems like you'd be asking for trouble.

It's not commonplace for water lines that small, where the fittings are cheap, and you don't get the added payoff of easier cable pulling. Just the wasted time used to heat the pipe up, makes it not really worth the effort, and I agree that when you do this without a properly controlled heat source (especially with a torch, but even with a heat gun), you do run the risk of damaging the pipe in a way that can lead to its future rupture.

It is commonplace for 4" and larger lines. There are commercial hot boxes, and heat blanket wraps for the job, and they do not damage the pipe or reduce its pressure rating. There are manufacturer approved procedures for this that specify allowable bend radii.
You may want to use a little air pressure inside the pipe, to keep it from closing up on you as you bend it, or a form.

Oh, and as for pressure, this is not really an issue. You do realize that the SCH40 sweep elbows are made from plain pipe in this manner.

Anyway, this is far superior to using flexible PVC pipe. That stuff is junk, and the glue joints just don't hold right for anything.

Mike Leary
05-25-2012, 04:20 PM
Anyway, this is far superior to using flexible PVC pipe. That stuff is junk, and the glue joints just don't hold right for anything.

Ditto, it sounded like a sent-from-heaven idea, but after a massive failure, I passed, forever.

1idejim
05-25-2012, 04:23 PM
It's not commonplace for water lines that small, where the fittings are cheap, and you don't get the added payoff of easier cable pulling. Just the wasted time used to heat the pipe up, makes it not really worth the effort, and I agree that when you do this without a properly controlled heat source (especially with a torch, but even with a heat gun), you do run the risk of damaging the pipe in a way that can lead to its future rupture.

It is commonplace for 4" and larger lines. There are commercial hot boxes, and heat blanket wraps for the job, and they do not damage the pipe or reduce its pressure rating. There are manufacturer approved procedures for this that specify allowable bend radii.
You may want to use a little air pressure inside the pipe, to keep it from closing up on you as you bend it, or a form.

Oh, and as for pressure, this is not really an issue. You do realize that the SCH40 sweep elbows are made from plain pipe in this manner.

Anyway, this is far superior to using flexible PVC pipe. That stuff is junk, and the glue joints just don't hold right for anything.

i bet i have bent somewhere near 1,000 pieces of pipe up to 3" while plumbing pools, that's a fair estimate. none of these pipe were under constant pressure at any time. i always used capped ends to maintain roundness and never allowed any egg shaped pipe to be installed on any of the jobs.

please answer these Q's

1-how much air pressure does one use to keep the pipe from closing up?
2-please provide a link for bonafides, i have looked with no success
3-what other trades do within their respective craft may or may not be accepted in irrigation.
4-flex pipe requires flex glue, the pressure ratings differ from sched pipe. flex is a fine product when it is used within the parameter's for which it is intended

Mike Leary
05-25-2012, 05:22 PM
flex pipe requires flex glue, the pressure ratings differ from sched pipe. flex is a fine product when it is used within the parameter's for which it is intended

May well could be, and you know me, I researched it and was "assured" it would work for irrigation lateral applications. Not.

1idejim
05-25-2012, 06:35 PM
May well could be, and you know me, I researched it and was "assured" it would work for irrigation lateral applications. Not.

"flex is a fine product when it is used within the parameter's for which it is intended"

All white Flexible PVC pipe we sell meets applicable UPC, USPC, ANSI, IAMPO, and NSF specifications, as well as City of LA, Southern Building Code, and Dade County, but not for potable water. Black has no ratings other than for swimming pools. It's all the same pipe, but because of the different uses, not all have the same rating. Flexible PVC pipe should be used in accordance with the following guidelines:


NEVER to be used where there is a constant "dead head" pressure. Deadhead pressure is when you have the pump running and no place for the water to go. Constant deadhead pressure may balloon the pipe and eventually it may fail or cause joint failure. The pressure ratings given are for flowing pressure situations. Typical okay uses are: swimming pools, spas, hottubs, whirlpool bathtubs, irrigation (after the valve), ponds, drainage, conduit, suction applications, etc. As long as there is flow in the pipe you should be fine within the rated specifications.


Should not be used with "booster pumps" applications. Ie, two pumps in series. In such situations, the flow stops and then starts repeatedly, it produces a "hydraulic hammer" effect and the glue joints may eventually fail. Standard swimming pool pumps are fine, booster pumps in addition to a standard pump are not. Note: the pipe itself rarely fails. In fact, we've never seen the pipe burst, but the fitting connection is where it will fail. Also if the pipe is buried in the ground with sharp rocks, sometimes the rocks can rub a whole in the pipe. Keep this in mind when burying pipe.


While white FlexPVC does have an NSF rating, it is not suitable for potable (drinking) water applications. There is nothing toxic in the pipe, but it will pick up a "plastic taste" if water sits in it for several hours. This is the only reason it doesn't have a potable water rating: it can't pass the taste test. Same for black or gray. Neither can be used for potable drinking water.


It is not resistant to insects, in particular, termites have been known to eat it. Research has shown flexible PVC does not attract termites, however if flexible pvc is placed in between a termite nest and a food source, they may try to eat their way through it. (They are too dumb to go around it.) FlexPVC.com will not be responsible for failure due to insect damage, nor rocks rubbing against the pipe and wearing a hole in it. You can lace your backfill and trenches with boric acid to reduce the likelyhood of termites, but it won't last forever. If you have termite infestation and want to use Flexible PVC pipe, you should retreat your trenches every few years to be safe, just like you do your house, garage, etc.


When is "schedule 40" not schedule 40? Our flexible PVC is treated as a hose by the building industry, not a pipe. Thus our hose fits Schedule 40 fittings (dimensionally) and can be used in place of schedule 40 pipe for many applications, but it does not meet all the requirements for schedule 40 pipe. (If you look at the specification on the Specs Page you will see the pressure ratings are not the same as schedule 40 pipe.) So, while we call it "flexible pvc pipe" in reality it's a hose that fits perfectly into schedule 40 fittings, but it can't meet the most stringent "schedule 40 pipe" requirements.


FlexPVC is not suitable as a flue for furnaces or heaters. The high heat causes the pipe to become soft and will collapse upon itself, possibly causing a kink in the pipe and then obstructing the airway.


If you are using it for something other than water movement, see our chemical ratings chart (png) or chemical ratings chart (tif). An "A" rating means you can use it without damage to the pipe. A "B" rating means you can use it, but over time the pipe will be effected. A "C" rating means you should not use it with that chemical. In all cases the chemical is concentrated or the solution noted. Ie, chlorinated water is fine, but pure chlorine liquid may not be. Consult the chart.

other information at http://flexpvc.com/PVCPipeSpecs.shtml

Mike Leary
05-25-2012, 06:40 PM
Nice post, James. The stuff I used was black, with a thickness of 200 psi poly.

1idejim
05-25-2012, 07:16 PM
Nice post, James. The stuff I used was black, with a thickness of 200 psi poly.

all content courtesy http://flexpvc.com/PVCPipeSpecs.shtml :waving:

Wet_Boots
05-25-2012, 10:20 PM
the one thing I see this concept useful for, is to use on flex PVC to expand the ends, and clamp them to barbed fittings, a procedure intended to give superior pull-out strength, on pump suction lines to inlet strainers in moving water

Mikegyver
06-04-2012, 08:54 AM
Sorry to come back late to this...that flex PVC is junk. We have quite a bit around our pool. The main issue is that the vibration of the water running through the pipes makes it rub with rocks in the back fill (dont ask me how it go there :dizzy:) or parts of concrete pool walls/walkways. The angles and curves were so slight that they could have laid sch 40 in the trenches and let it bend around. Its been nothing but a pain in the butt and its nearly impossible to dig around the pool without fear of hitting one of them with a shovel. Plus its no fun when it decides to leak under the concrete walkway that I mentioned eariler :cry: