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View Full Version : Valve manifold with expansion couplers .... good or bad?


wolfdown
05-30-2012, 07:08 AM
I just replaced a set of 1" valves and was surpised to find expansion (telescoping) fittings connected on the output side of the valves. This actually simplified a lot of the work to change the values out. I had to extend the telescopes to fit my new vavles, but it was relatively easy with some 2" lengths of PVC and a standard coupler.

I've been doing some research, and I haven't seen anyone recommend this type of setup. I'm worried that this is actually a bad design. From what I can tell, the telescope fittngs will put a lot of lateral pressure on the PVC line and valves when it is pressurized. Can anyone tell me if this is OK to leave as is, or should I try to "fix" it.

So far the new valves are working really well and I imagine the system has been running for 10 years or more with the original valves that were replaced ... so more curious about this type of design, and how common it is. Thanks.

mitchgo
05-30-2012, 07:36 AM
As long as the slip fix is fully extended after the repair they are fine on lateral lines.

wolfdown
05-30-2012, 08:26 AM
ah .. correct. I see now that I shoudl have done the final solvent step on the telescope ends with everthing else in place :(

Unfortuantely, I did not do it that way. I wasn't aware of the issue at the time of the fix. So as it stands, I could go back and repair 2 of the 3. I used up the last amount of the telescope of the third one. So I either have to replace whole telesecope body and slide, or find and identical slide-end (probably hard to find since its 10 years old, yes?)

So how bad is it? all of the pipes are burried, and don't seem to flex or leak when the pressure is on. :wall:realmad:

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-30-2012, 08:40 AM
If the pipes run straight and don't come to any fittings leading to laterals for 10'+ you are probably okay. I wouldn't worry about it. Just chalk it up as a learning experience.

Kiril
05-30-2012, 08:50 AM
Telescoping pipe fixes have no place in a manifold. Get some unions and do it right.

wolfdown
05-30-2012, 09:00 AM
@FIMCO-MEISTER: Unfortunately, there are elbows shortley before or after every telescope fitting.

@Kiril: Sounds like good advice. It was the original design, so I'll look into to see if I can change it somehow.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-30-2012, 09:11 AM
Dig it up and send us a pic.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 04:04 AM
See pics. I got the unions today. What side should the compression nut go on? Valve side, or the downstream pipe?

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-31-2012, 08:47 AM
Downstream side. Cut the slip fixEs out and dig back some more. I could do that repair with 2 coupling, 2 maleadapters, and 4 elbows. Unions aren't all that necessary here. As for the straight shot pipe use a union and a male adapter on that one.

DanaMac
05-31-2012, 08:54 AM
Downstream side. Cut the slip fixEs out and dig back some more. I could do that repair with 2 coupling, 2 maleadapters, and 4 elbows. Unions aren't all that necessary here. As for the straight shot pipe use a union and a male adapter on that one.

Definitely. No need for a union or SF in the case of the ones with the ells.

Kiril
05-31-2012, 08:54 AM
See pics. I got the unions today. What side should the compression nut go on? Valve side, or the downstream pipe?

I always place the ring on the side that is the least likely to get replaced, which for me means the valve side since I use a toe nipple to the union, and that part can just be spun out and reused if the valve needs to be replaced.

Personally I would cut out all that junk and rebuild it. I would probably look at replacing the 90's with 45's as well.

And my 2 cents on unions. Using unions means you never have to cut another piece of PVC to replace a valve.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-31-2012, 09:08 AM
Excellent valve that can easily be serviced but get some decent wire nuts on them.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 04:19 PM
thanks for all the responses. I'll probably just put the unions on since I agree it would make fixing things easier in the future. My plan before postign was just to leave the angles the same, except switch out the telescopes for the unions.

I was planning on repalcing the straight valve, with just a coupler and union. Middle valve, with a coupler, 90, union, and male thread. That leaves a coupler, two 90s, union, and male thread for the final section.

jvanvliet
05-31-2012, 05:14 PM
Looks like you already put on the telescoping repair couplings.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 05:27 PM
yes, before I started the thread, I extended the telescope ends to fit the new valves.

jvanvliet
05-31-2012, 07:27 PM
Well too late now, but IMHO you could have pulled back those two elbows to fit rigid pipe, dug back some on that straight pipe and put in rigid pipe there.

It's ok, different strokes for different folks.

bcg
05-31-2012, 08:32 PM
I can't really tell from the photo but based on the solenoid, I'm guessing those are 1" PGA's? That's an easily rebuilt valve but it can be a little difficult about closing correctly at times if the flow isn't just right. I'd probably skip the unions and just pipe it back up, with what you have to work with it would be very easy to just use pipe. Probably take less time than getting the unions matched up correctly and it's really unlikely that you'll ever need to replace that valve body.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 09:36 PM
The valves are 1" PEBs.

I see what you're saying about skipping the unions with the elbows, since the pvc will flex enough to get the slip fitting in. Not sure how you could do it with the straight pipe valve though. Wouldn't you have to dig pretty far to get enough flex on the pipe to fit it into the male thread? Anyway, I'd rather spend $5 for the union than have to dig an extra 20 min. hehe

Mike Leary
05-31-2012, 09:41 PM
getting the unions matched up correctly

Unless you're dead-on, unions are worthless.

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-31-2012, 09:43 PM
I could of done it better in less time with less cost no matter what you think you might be able to do.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 09:49 PM
Unless you're dead-on, unions are worthless.

Can I cement the union last and then quickly lock it in with enough time before it fully sets? Then if its +/- 0.25 inches, that should be good, yes?

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-31-2012, 09:52 PM
you are just asking for the flames buddy...

Mike Leary
05-31-2012, 09:59 PM
I could of done it better in less time with less cost no matter what you think you might be able to do.

It's not a matter of any of the above, it's a matter of expertise and attention to detail. Anyone who's in a hurry never lasted long with me.

wolfdown
05-31-2012, 09:59 PM
you are just asking for the flames buddy...

ok, i guess that means i'll have to get it dead on :confused:

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-31-2012, 10:02 PM
good luck man...you'll be fine..

The fact you care about it this much just tells me you are going to do a great job..

I say try to get it to work how you want it to ...if it doesn't fix it.

irritation
05-31-2012, 10:11 PM
Why does something so simple have to be so difficult?

No need for slipfixes when you have 90's to work with. Whoever said a slipfix needs to be fully extended is full of crap.
Unions suck, use a glue fitting.

bcg
05-31-2012, 10:14 PM
The valves are 1" PEBs.

I see what you're saying about skipping the unions with the elbows, since the pvc will flex enough to get the slip fitting in. Not sure how you could do it with the straight pipe valve though. Wouldn't you have to dig pretty far to get enough flex on the pipe to fit it into the male thread? Anyway, I'd rather spend $5 for the union than have to dig an extra 20 min. hehe

I meant remove the slip-fixs and just redo it in pipe/fittings without the unions (re-reading your post, we might be on the same page). On the straight valve, dig out maybe another 5' feet and you'll have enough flex in the pipe to get a coupling in there.

The PEB is a superb valve. You'll be long gone before that body needs to be replaced so there's really no compelling reason to put unions in. I find they don't really simplify things unless they're on both sides anyway and they're only helpful if you replace with the exact same valve (or one of identical length).

Mike Leary
05-31-2012, 10:28 PM
The PEB is a superb valve. I find they don't really simplify things unless they're on both sides anyway and they're only helpful if you replace with the exact same valve (or one of identical length).

PEB valves are good, the only RB valve I carried parts for. It always blew me away when I went to service a cold call commercial site and found a union (idiot LA call-out) only on one side! What possible good could that do? :dizzy:

grassman177
05-31-2012, 11:04 PM
I would have removed the slip fixes as well, it will still be ok though
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jvanvliet
06-01-2012, 07:29 AM
:clapping: Thumbs Up

Why does something so simple have to be so difficult?

No need for slipfixes when you have 90's to work with. Unions suck, use a glue fitting.

Right on.

jvanvliet
06-01-2012, 07:37 AM
I could of done it better in less time with less cost no matter what you think you might be able to do.

evhaIOwrcZ4

:cool:

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-01-2012, 07:51 AM
Why does something so simple have to be so difficult?

No need for slipfixes when you have 90's to work with. Whoever said a slipfix needs to be fully extended is full of crap.
Unions suck, use a glue fitting.
Agree. I wouldnt even worry about the straight pipe and just replace the SFs on the two with visible elbows. I'm not that concerned about the lateral piping just pipe movement that can break something in the manifold.
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Kiril
06-01-2012, 08:50 AM
Unless you're dead-on, unions are worthless.

Hey daddy-o. If you can't install a union properly, then you shouldn't be doing the work to begin with. :waving:

PEB valves are good, the only RB valve I carried parts for. It always blew me away when I went to service a cold call commercial site and found a union (idiot LA call-out) only on one side! What possible good could that do? :dizzy:

I can manage to get a valve out with only one union without cutting, although it is much easier with two.

jvanvliet
06-01-2012, 07:47 PM
I can manage to get a valve out with only one union without cutting, although it is much easier with two.

Some people glue their valves in.