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pfd27
06-04-2012, 06:29 PM
Ok I am new to landscape lighting. Not to electricity. My question is how do you sell a coustomer an idea? I know we do that all day long but with plants we have drawings. But how do you show what the lighting will look like. My plan is to buy some solar and do it temp to adjust it and show them what it will some what look like with tie proper bulbs and fixtures. Is this a good idea? Or am I missing something. Not a very big project. Probably 6 to 12 fixtures on two small beds. Up light on a pine and down and up on an oak. Thanks for the help.
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S&MLL
06-04-2012, 06:51 PM
Ok I am new to landscape lighting. Not to electricity. My question is how do you sell a coustomer an idea? I know we do that all day long but with plants we have drawings. But how do you show what the lighting will look like. My plan is to buy some solar and do it temp to adjust it and show them what it will some what look like with tie proper bulbs and fixtures. Is this a good idea? Or am I missing something. Not a very big project. Probably 6 to 12 fixtures on two small beds. Up light on a pine and down and up on an oak. Thanks for the help.
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Solar !?!?!?! :hammerhead: Not sure your plan of attack with solar lighting. If you do not have a portfolio of your past work. And manufacturer stock photos aren't making the sale you better start doing demos.

Or tell them to call nitelites or olp and let them do a free demo. Then follow up with your price for a system

pfd27
06-04-2012, 07:03 PM
This is my first lighting project. I have done some at my house, but never a coustomer. I am in a rural part of the state. No big city near by. I know I sound like a complete dumb a$$ but this is a very good customer of mine and would like to close the deal on what "I" would like to do. He was thinking just some post tops or low ground light. I am thinking a little bit bigger and better. Which I think he will really like when it is done but I don't know how to sell him on my idea. If ya know what I mean. So I thought if I could rig up some solar lights that day and have them light up that night to help me explain what I want to do it would help. By temp I mention for an hour not days. Thanks for any help
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steveparrott
06-04-2012, 07:49 PM
It would be good to take a full-day landscape lighting seminar (http://www.cast-lighting.com/learning/seminars-and-courses/) offered by a manufacturer or lighting distributor. This will give you a good hands-on introduction. If that's not possible, then go to the CAST Lighting Gallery (http://www.cast-lighting.com/flash/cl_gallery.swf) - there are over 400 photos of excellent lighting jobs categorized by architectural style, landscape feature, etc. Find some photos similar to your client's home, and see how lights are chosen and positioned. You can also show your client these photos.

I'm not saying you can become an expert by looking at photos, but it's a start - at least to get a sense of how top designers do it. You can even take a photo to your nearest distributor (http://www.cast-lighting.com/distributor-designer-locator/) and ask for their assistance to select the right products. It's quite possible that by asking a lot of questions about the right way to install and design, that this first project could be the start of a very rewarding future in lighting. We all start with a first job.

Don't bother with using solar lights for a demo - there are none on the market that approach the level of illumination and type of light distribution that you'll find with a professional-quality fixture. There are demo kits available (some distributors loan them out). But in your case, I'd suggest starting with a photo, a discussion with the homeowner, and diving into the project (willing to take a lot of time to be sure you get it right).

Good luck!

pfd27
06-04-2012, 09:35 PM
It would be good to take a full-day landscape lighting seminar (http://www.cast-lighting.com/learning/seminars-and-courses/) offered by a manufacturer or lighting distributor. This will give you a good hands-on introduction. If that's not possible, then go to the CAST Lighting Gallery (http://www.cast-lighting.com/flash/cl_gallery.swf) - there are over 400 photos of excellent lighting jobs categorized by architectural style, landscape feature, etc. Find some photos similar to your client's home, and see how lights are chosen and positioned. You can also show your client these photos.

I'm not saying you can become an expert by looking at photos, but it's a start - at least to get a sense of how top designers do it. You can even take a photo to your nearest distributor (http://www.cast-lighting.com/distributor-designer-locator/) and ask for their assistance to select the right products. It's quite possible that by asking a lot of questions about the right way to install and design, that this first project could be the start of a very rewarding future in lighting. We all start with a first job.

Don't bother with using solar lights for a demo - there are none on the market that approach the level of illumination and type of light distribution that you'll find with a professional-quality fixture. There are demo kits available (some distributors loan them out). But in your case, I'd suggest starting with a photo, a discussion with the homeowner, and diving into the project (willing to take a lot of time to be sure you get it right).

Good luck!


Thank you both you have giving me a great place to start. I will post some pics when I get it done. His way or my way.
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LLC RI
06-04-2012, 10:18 PM
HI

I think a good step for you to take since it seems like you don't have time to right now take a manufacturers class, is to do your own learning. If you get a few basics... an MR-16 uplight/downlight, a wash light, a path light, and perhaps a path light, you can do your own demo/ learning on the actual site.

Rig up a transformer and the lights with some wire and make a demo pack which you can use to 'test' out different lighting techniques.

Try shining the bullet light up into trees and see what looks good.. Based on the size of the tree, you can see how many fixtures you'd need. If there are large trees, you might want to down light from them instead of using path lights... get a ladder or a long telescoping pole and mount the fixture, hold it up and see what it looks like... using different lamps/ beams etc.

Try washing the house with some diffused wash light... see how the effect can change with the angle and closeness to the house you go with the fixture.

Bottom line.. have fun with it.. but learn as well. There are so many fixtures out there you can really find exactly what you need to do the trick.

If you post pics of this site.. I'll be happy to comment

good luck

George

pfd27
06-04-2012, 10:54 PM
Thanks George. So what would be a good starter kit? Bullets transformer other lights. What I am looking for I guess is a material list of things I should have. I have worked with everything from 4ma all the way to 400 amp 480 3 phase so that don't scare me. But I always get nervous trying new things.
Thanks
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LLC RI
06-04-2012, 11:14 PM
You can check out some of the major manufacturers sites... the pioneer of landscape lighting was NIGHTSCAPING, so check them out at nightscaping.com. Then of course there is Cast and Hadco and Focus, to name a few who have full lines. Most have a demo kit...

you can contact them and see if there is a rep in your area to get them to come meet you and show you what they've got and perhaps help you out with a kit.. or just select fixtures that are the basics and will help teach you the various techniques and results of using different lighting.

G

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
06-09-2012, 09:54 AM
George is correct. Many manufacturers offer a demonstration kit. Here is an example of a nice appointed fixture & lamp demo kit.

https://store.illumicaregroup.com/Brass-Fixture-LED-Lamp-Sample-Kit_p_131.html

NightScenes
06-12-2012, 03:28 PM
ANYTHING but solar! The last thing you want to do is sell someone on solar lights. They'll look really bad and then you've made a bad impression that you'll find very hard to correct.

pfd27
06-13-2012, 03:56 PM
Ok I went to the only place in 40 miles that handles commercial grade lighting. They did not carry a demo kit. So we made one up. 120 watt xformer 2 bullets one post and 2 flat mount lights. They did not have any well lights but for demo purposes I thought one of the bullets would work. If not let me know please. Now the only thing I have questions on are the bulbs/lamps themselves. Any suggestions. And how long of runs should I put on each demo light. I figured I would put female plug ends on the xformer and hard wire the lamps with 50 feet or so of wire with male ends on that? Do I have to worry about voltage loss with that configuration?
Again thanks for all the help
Chad
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pfd27
06-13-2012, 04:03 PM
Ok I went to the only place in 40 miles that handles commercial grade lighting. They did not carry a demo kit. So we made one up. 120 watt xformer 2 bullets one post and 2 flat mount lights. They did not have any well lights but for demo purposes I thought one of the bullets would work. If not let me know please. Now the only thing I have questions on are the bulbs/lamps themselves. Any suggestions. And how long of runs should I put on each demo light. I figured I would put female plug ends on the xformer and hard wire the lamps with 50 feet or so of wire with male ends on that? Do I have to worry about voltage loss with that configuration?
Again thanks for all the help
Chad
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LLC RI
06-13-2012, 05:56 PM
Ok I went to the only place in 40 miles that handles commercial grade lighting. They did not carry a demo kit. So we made one up. 120 watt xformer 2 bullets one post and 2 flat mount lights. They did not have any well lights but for demo purposes I thought one of the bullets would work. If not let me know please. Now the only thing I have questions on are the bulbs/lamps themselves. Any suggestions. And how long of runs should I put on each demo light. I figured I would put female plug ends on the xformer and hard wire the lamps with 50 feet or so of wire with male ends on that? Do I have to worry about voltage loss with that configuration?
Again thanks for all the help
Chad
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First off, you don't necessarily need a well light because you won't be digging a hole just to demo one. You might, however, use a bullet or get yourself a PAR 36 lamp and use that just to demo...

Where are you located that you have no distribution?

You really should check out some of the national multiline distributors like California Landscape Lighting. You can use male / female ends or just simply use some wire nuts. Don't worry about voltage drop etc... again.... simple demo kit...

start out on your own house.. and see what effects you can create by putting light in different places..... remember.. try to avoid putting any fixtures within a grass area because they will most likely get destroyed over time.

Good luck

George

pfd27
06-14-2012, 01:35 AM
Well it is now 1130 and I am just getting in. I was like a kid in a candy store. I was really impressed with the bullets. I did get some different lamps. 60 36 and spot light. Not so impressed with the flat mount. Wrong application on my part I think. Thank you all for the help. I am sure I will be asking tons more questions so sorry in advance.
chad
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LLC RI
06-14-2012, 10:47 AM
what exactly do you mean.. when you refer to flat mount light?

are you talking about a post mounted deck light? like a small half wedge or half bell shape? or something else?

pfd27
06-14-2012, 11:04 AM
Yeah. I just didn't seem to put out enought light to light up a 4' step. The step was completely dark on the opposite side. Like I said probably wrong application. I attached them to my house along the steps.
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LLC RI
06-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Well.. there are many styles of that type of fixture.. check out copper moon and hadco... they have many of the surface mount lights that would mount on a post and give off enough light. Typically, on a set of deck steps... you would put one on each post at the bottom and top and then alternate sides if there are more posts along the staircase.

pfd27
07-15-2012, 02:39 AM
Well i did my demo tonight. They loved it. 5 bullets 2 path 2 post tops and 2 post mount lights. Thank you all for the help. I will post pics when the install is done.
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