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chrisvinky
06-08-2012, 06:08 PM
When you guys install pavers, from what I gather is that most install the field first, mark for the cut and then install the soldier course.

Is the best way to cut the soldier course with a handheld saw? Does the pavers not vibrate out of place or move?

Also, at what point do you put the edge restraint down?

I am installing my first patio starting Monday!

big daddy b
06-08-2012, 08:43 PM
To answer your questions:
Yes, install all of the field first, overlay everything a few inches past the final desired layout line.
We layout the snap edge on top of the pavers then score a line along the snap edge to mark the final cut for the soldier course.
Pull the snap edge away, cut the line you scored, discard the cuts and lay in the soldier.
We usually overlay enough that we just pop out the cuts and have the pavers right there to swap in.
Once the solider is in, install the snap edge, do your first poly sand sweep, tamp the pavers, do your final poly sand sweep, blow it off lightly with a blower, wet it down and your done.
That's how we do it, and have done it for years.

chrisvinky
06-08-2012, 09:46 PM
To answer your questions:
Yes, install all of the field first, overlay everything a few inches past the final desired layout line.
We layout the snap edge on top of the pavers then score a line along the snap edge to mark the final cut for the soldier course.
Pull the snap edge away, cut the line you scored, discard the cuts and lay in the soldier.
We usually overlay enough that we just pop out the cuts and have the pavers right there to swap in.
Once the solider is in, install the snap edge, do your first poly sand sweep, tamp the pavers, do your final poly sand sweep, blow it off lightly with a blower, wet it down and your done.
That's how we do it, and have done it for years.

So you actually cut the pavers in the bedding sand with a gas powered saw? I was afraid that the pavers would move doing this.

scagrider22
06-08-2012, 10:24 PM
I score the pavers in place, if the patio is square I will cut all the way through but if it has a radius I remove them to finish the cut.

DVS Hardscaper
06-09-2012, 07:34 AM
We seldom cut the field with a cut off saw. We usually cut the field with a table saw. It turns out far more cleaner and neater.


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Gr8WhiteNorth
06-09-2012, 02:10 PM
Cut in place where you can. Pretty much everything except inside corners work using this method. Cleaner lines in about 1/4 the time.

FLCthes4:11-12
06-10-2012, 01:54 PM
I find often when I cut in place that I have to go back and touch up the sand which isnt a big deal seeing how much time is saved not marking and cutting individually. On tight curves I do cut individually.

big daddy b
06-10-2012, 07:58 PM
If your base is tight and solid you shouldn't have ANY issues cutting the pavers laid in.
Don't sweep the sand in before cutting, not a good idea.
I don't what anyone says, marking and cutting with a table saw is twice as time consuming and not as nice looking....if you know how to work a demo saw.
Once you get good at it, it saves a lot of time.
We even have a road saw that we use for long straight cuts, normally used for asphalt works great for cutting pavers, again if your base is tight like it should be.

zedosix
06-10-2012, 09:53 PM
I would say cutting with a table saw, if you are good at it like we are, then the cuts come out cleaner. Takes longer but the end result imo is better.

alldayrj
06-10-2012, 10:12 PM
i do them all on the table saw unless its huge pavers like the cambridge ledgestone XLs

Lite4
06-10-2012, 11:26 PM
Use a handheld, not only is it faster but if you decide to cut individually on a table saw you will invariably have some edges of pavers that don't line up correctly and it looks like dog vomit. Angle your blade if you are cutting radius and it all works out much cleaner and tighter. Besides time is money.
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FLCthes4:11-12
06-11-2012, 08:31 AM
If your base is tight and solid you shouldn't have ANY issues cutting the pavers laid in.
Don't sweep the sand in before cutting, not a good idea.
I don't what anyone says, marking and cutting with a table saw is twice as time consuming and not as nice looking....if you know how to work a demo saw.
Once you get good at it, it saves a lot of time.
We even have a road saw that we use for long straight cuts, normally used for asphalt works great for cutting pavers, again if your base is tight like it should be.

How is your bedding sand any tighter than others, 1" screeded ?

big daddy b
06-11-2012, 07:20 PM
We use stone dust, screeded and pre-tamped a couple of times before laying in the pavers.
When we go to cut in the soldier course, they don't move.
I remember quite a few years ago when I was still very green to hardscapes cutting everything with an old table saw. Once I started cutting in place with a demo saw, I never looked back, and I can't imagine going back to the table saw method now.
I'm not saying you guys that use that method are wrong, it's just not how I do things anymore.

DVS Hardscaper
06-12-2012, 01:39 PM
.............I don't what anyone says, marking and cutting with a table saw is twice as time consuming and not as nice looking....if you know how to work a demo saw.
Once you get good at it, it saves a lot of time.
We even have a road saw that we use for long straight cuts, normally used for asphalt works great for cutting pavers, again if your base is tight like it should be.


We all have our own opinions.

But I will say it is obvious Big Daddy does not own a table saw.

Table saws are pricey. And well worth it.

There is no two ways about it that a table saw produces a clean, top notch, plumb, and square cut.

The production companies may sacrifice quality over time. Ryan Homes is a production company :) . To each his own, but I do not want to be the Ryan Homes of the industry :)

Most of our jobs are radiused. Our jobs with straight lines - we cut with a handheld. Our jobs with radiused are cut with table saws. Our cutting process is even discussed during the initial sales consultation with the client, with close up pictures showing our cuts.

I have a buddy that always speaks of how good his guys cut with a chop saw. Of course they do, they have no choice but to, because he moans and groans about purchasing a real saw :)

If I was a painter and my boss only supplied me with a sponge to paint with I'm sure I would get good at painting with it.
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zedosix
06-12-2012, 01:46 PM
I think its time for some picture comparisons maybe!
Table saw vs hand held.

DVS Hardscaper
06-12-2012, 04:43 PM
Anyone can do anything good. Meaning people each have their talents and traits.

I know a guy that in his younger days set vertical natural stone veneer by starting at the top and working down.

There are painters that can paint an entire furnished house and not have to use any tape, tarps, covers, etc., and not get a drop of paint anywhere its not intended.

But my point is:
A) we can't say one method is better then the other. Furthermore if you never done both methods.

B) if you run an operation with employees, then you know nothing is forever. Employees come and go. You have no guarantee that your super duper looper paver cutter will be there 2 months from now.

A table saw is a guaranteed perfect, square, plumb, and clean cut for your new laborers. A handheld saw may yield cuts that are angled and when you install the edge restraint you end up with a gap.


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zedosix
06-12-2012, 04:55 PM
So does that mean you won't be showing us your close ups?

DVS Hardscaper
06-12-2012, 08:15 PM
So does that mean you won't be showing us your close ups?

I do have close ups.

They are not digital, they are on 4x6 prints. I use them for sales purposes.

Will I show them on Lawnsite? Probably not, they're an official sales tool.

Would I scan them and share with you, Andy, via e-mail? Yes I would. But it would not be anytime soon as thats the last thing I have time for right now!



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big daddy b
06-12-2012, 09:13 PM
I personally do not own a table saw, no.
The company owns 3 table saws that have not moved in at least three years that I know of.
Our 5 demo saws get used on a daily basis, I would put our cuts up against any others.

alldayrj
06-12-2012, 11:29 PM
some cuts are just too small for the demo, and some pavers are too large for the table. I usually bring both out but without a doubt the table has more hours on it doing detail stuff and the demo does just that, demo. ( as well as cut stone treads etc)

Gilmore.Landscaping
06-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Everything is cut in place with a Demo saw with us, on super tight curves you will have to take them out but they are still cut with demo saws.

This one picture should explain everything. Second one shows the curve cut in place.
1. Pavers Overlaid
2. Scored
3. Cut full though
4. Lay soilder course

alldayrj
06-13-2012, 01:37 PM
Doesnt look to straight but that might just be the type of paver used
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Gilmore.Landscaping
06-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Yea thats just the roughness of the paver, it was crazy to lay. That line is straight.

alldayrj
06-13-2012, 08:54 PM
are those the aquabrick/permeable deals?

DVS Hardscaper
06-13-2012, 09:43 PM
Everything is cut in place with a Demo saw with us, on super tight curves you will have to take them out but they are still cut with demo saws.

This one picture should explain everything. Second one shows the curve cut in place.
1. Pavers Overlaid
2. Scored
3. Cut full though
4. Lay soilder course


The cut in the 2nd pic is not straight by any means, and unfortunately it's not the paver :)

The line is squiggly. I have NO doubt that a table saw would have yielded 100% better results.

This pic is exactly what I preach to my prospective clients to beware of :)

My guys say I have "laser eyes", because I pick up on that stuff instantly. I'm OCD about straight lines and level anything. It takes all I have to keep myself from straightening crooked wall pictures in my client's houses when I go in them!



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Gilmore.Landscaping
06-13-2012, 09:52 PM
I have another pic looking the other direction, I will post tomorrow, Its on my work computer.

And the paver is vendom by permacon. If you haven't used the paver you wouldn't know how uneven the bricks sit together
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Gilmore.Landscaping
06-15-2012, 08:59 AM
Here's the other direction.....just so you can see the line is straight.

Don't mind the mulch mess, we got that sorted out.

zedosix
06-15-2012, 09:46 AM
I'll try to get a few pictures of some vendome we did last week, we are using it again this week and I can attest its a pita to work with and keep straight. Do you use reg poly sand or poly dust in there Gilmore?

Gilmore.Landscaping
06-15-2012, 10:17 AM
We use all Envirobond products....in this case envirostone natural
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