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View Full Version : Bad Boy "Outlw"? 2010 model review


Hotrock911
06-11-2012, 09:43 PM
Let me preface this review by saying that before I bought a 2010 Outlaw I researched Dixie Chopper, Xmark, Huskie, and several others. I decided on the Outlaw because of a relationship with Helms Tractor in Montgomery, Al. I've spent probably 40,000-50,000 with Dick Helms in the last 5 years and have developed a trusting relationship with him and still do. I've seen many people requesting reviews on the Bad Boy line and felt compelled to write this. I'm 64 years old and nobody rides my equipment but me. The mower has a 54 inch deck, 31HP kawasaki engine and ZT5400 drive train. I'll break this review down by year for the 2.5 years I've owned it:

2010
Within two weeks I started throwing belts and anti scalp wheels started falling off. Also, the height adj. pin kept vibrating out. Having an automotive background, I realized the problem was in the hardware(nuts and bolts). I contacted Bad Boy, explained the problem, and they sent me a new belt and a set of scalp wheels. This problem continued thru the 2010 cutting season. They even recommended that I locktite the hardware, which I did to no avail.

2011
At the beginning of the cutting season, I was still having problems with belts coming off.The manual(actually it's more of a brochure) stated to adjust the spring tension to the thickness of a credit card. After adjusting the spring I started breaking springs(3 of them). Disgusted, I took the mower to Helms. After a week he informed me the mower was ready. When I picked the mower up I checked the spring with a credit card and you could actually get three credit cards in the spring. When I asked him about it he said "oh, you have to adjust the spring by eye". Huh? I continued to have the original bolt and nut problem as in 2010 but managed to keep them from falling off by tightening them every other cutting.

2012
After about four cuttings(late April) while cutting I noticed some vibration and strange noises(a bad sign on this mower). I stopped it and noticed the deck had fallen off the hangers. After looking it over, I noticed the adjusting pin had fallen out and gotten lost, allowing the deck to fall on the ground and vibrated the deck off the hangers. I put a bolt and nut in place of the pin, reattached the the deck and loaded the mower up for Helms. When I got to Helms I showed him the scalp wheels, which had two hours on them since I tightened. They were extemely loose. The tech at Helms said John, your left rear wheel is loose, this is probably where your vibration is coming from.I had a flat in June, 2010, repaired the tire and re-torqued the wheel to 80 ft lb. This was about 35 hours ago.

I really didn't want to turn this into a book but after fighting with Bad Boy for a week they have told me the mower is out of warranty, although all the problems I've had have gone on since the mower was two weeks old. I can't say enough bad things about Bad Boy customer service. After looking at the 2012 Outlaw, I notice they have put a retainer line on the height adj. pin, Plastic inserts on the scalp wheels, and new specs on adjusting the spring tensioner. This tells me I have been used to test their equipment. All I asked them to do was to supply me with the parts to upgrade the mower.By the way, the plate that the front scalp wheels attach to had to be replaced from being run loose.

I sincerely hope Bad Boy has "fixed" these problems but I really have my doubts. I hope this helps someone who is considering this mower. My advice would be "Buyer Beware!")

jllawncare1128
06-11-2012, 10:36 PM
Im amazed yours lasted that long, i bought one last year and it pretty much fell apart in a month.

ProStreetCamaro
06-11-2012, 10:43 PM
The badboy guys are going to be reeling over this one.............

lawns Etc
06-11-2012, 11:15 PM
Theres bad in every brand! Ive owned them all and they all break but disapointed that BB wasnt willing to upgrade your mower to the current or comparable upgrade. I am on my second Bad Boy and havent really had any problems but I do have 2 good dealers very close to me. Ive had very good dealings with all the mowers ive owned except one dealer who I bought 3 Everrides from but in general your dealer should go to bat for you.

Ridin' Green
06-11-2012, 11:24 PM
The badboy guys are going to be reeling over this one.............

............That's if this thread last very long.

No bad press about BB last long here. Usually too many posts get put up trashing them and then the thread gets deleted or locked. I realize this man is just stating his experiences, but we all know it won't be long before the chips hit the fan when BB is the topic.

I agree that your dealer should be fighting for you.

OP-I hope you get it all sorted out to your liking

lawns Etc
06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
His facts are facts not misrepresenting anything bad in any way. They arent backing there product and thats the facts he most likely has a paper trail showing the same problems over and over and something should be done regardless of what color the machine is.

Ridin' Green
06-11-2012, 11:37 PM
His facts are facts not misrepresenting anything bad in any way. They arent backing there product and thats the facts he most likely has a paper trail showing the same problems over and over and something should be done regardless of what color the machine is.

If that is directed at my post, then you should re-read it. I said that it was his experience, and I didn't say that he was misrepresenting anything. Clearly he has a legitimate complaint. However, there are a lot of guys here who love to hate on BB and they always find these threads. I believe BB has a long ways to go to be competitve, but I don't wish them any bad luck.

OP- try contacting a member named Retrodog here on LS. He is a BB dealer. If anyone can help you, I'd say it would probably be him.

lawns Etc
06-11-2012, 11:54 PM
No im talking in general not to any one person Hopefully Bad Boy will have a rep reading this and take care of the man.

GMLC
06-12-2012, 07:13 AM
Im sorry you had a bad experience with a new mower. There are several brands available that should give you many many hours/years of trouble free service. To many BB horror stories get deleted from this site for some reason. It is a shame because some people could have made better decisions based on them and avoided a situation like yours. We had a couple dealers up here try to sell BB with no luck and dropped them. When I looked a them I felt no need to demo one as the fit and finish has a long ways to go. Also I dont like the way things are designed on them. Its only my opinion and Im very picky when it comes to fit and finish and the design of equipment.
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Realslowww
06-12-2012, 07:17 AM
I have a dealer here and they sell Scag,Hustler,Exmark,and BB and they claim for the money BB is the best buy.Also right now that dealer has been selling alot of Hustler Hyper Drives because people want the latest and greatest no matter what it costs as long as the finance company will go for it.:laugh:

I myself have heard more customer complaints from dealers and owners alike from BB customer service than on any other brand.

If I were buying a new mower I believe it would be the new Gravely 460!

retrodog
06-12-2012, 09:43 AM
2010 was a bad year for anti scalp wheels. For some reason that design came off the Law waaaay more than the other mowers... Took a little bit for them to catch it, and then they designed the new "Outlaw" anti scalp wheels, sorry for the issue on that, I just hope that after it happened the first time your dealer installed the new design, warrantied your wheels (as something not usually covered, but they did warranty them due to the circumstances), and you shouldn't see as many issues with them...

Now your belt issue is very uncommon with the law, I have prolly sold more laws than any dealer I would imagine, and I dont see many belt issues at all, there has to be something going on there... I am sure a good look over by the dealer and he could find out what is going on, or a call to tech support to walk you through the checks (if your dealer is uncooperative) I do not even keep very many belts in stock for the law. As far as the credit card spring thing.... or eyeballing it...lol, I recommend a belt tension tester, you might recommend it to your dealer. Mine was a hair over $100 I believe, but it is used many times a day, a must have for any mower dealer.

The deck height pin was smoothing out the lock and falling out on the first year issue, many of my guys got a pin from the hardware store that locks over the assembly after theirs fell out (not a big deal, like a $1 fix), after they caught that, the height pin was extended and a cord was attached to it in so they couldn't be lost, this year

As far as the deck hanger assembly hook, they sometimes fall off when in a bind, nuts work loose over the years, need to be tightened, etc, again a minor issue, just when on top of every issue seem like a big deal. That was a first issue brand new design mower, I was so impressed in the few minor issues we had, I was very worried as I pushed them pretty hard due to loving the design. I guess the biggest design changes we got on that machine this year was the anti sway bar on the deck (that way the deck wouldn't swing as much on the hangers), suspension and the smooth steering system on the xp. The thing I like about BB is how fast they are to address the issue and change, sometimes in less than a week after catching it....

Op sorry for your issues, get your dealer to "play" with your mower and spend a little research time on it to get to the bottom of the belt issue, run by your hardware store and grab a pin with a roll over end lock on it for a $1 (you will like it better anywayz...), and get the factory to send you the new design roller wheels (if you dont already have them), and you should be good to go...

I was more worried about tranny issues, and things like that going to the 5400's, but they have since become my favorite tranny over the past 3 years, anti scalp wheels and a height pin is nowhere near the deere debacle on the transmission system, or some of the other giant new release issues I have seen. I am sure if you get the belt issue worked out you will love your mower...

Everyone has their issues, even the 460. Have a lawncare guy here come by and borrow a mower from me as his pump belt came off and pulled the entire wheel motor completely off the mower...still dont know how that happened... He isnt pissed off or anything, understands he bought a new design that might have some kinks to work out, he was more ticked they didnt offer him a loaner and he had to come up to another shop to bum one.... Our local machine shop has welded so many decks up from different mowers, but admitted to never ever seeing a bad boy deck to weld (and I have nearly 1000 running around here now).

I personally sold 88 laws in the last 2 months, they are top of the line, and hold up with anyone else in the market, dont let little issues that arose in the new design period deter, i will put the law up against anything, and save some cash doing it...

BestImpressions99
06-12-2012, 11:36 AM
Our Toro 300 Z series has this issue with the left drive motor. On an incline it slips. Only 500 hrs on the machine. Kohler Command 18HP replaced at 300 hrs. But when it came time to demo and buy, Toro or Scag all the way.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree that ever brand has there bad moments... BUT... I do have to agree that BB squashes bad publicity no matter how minute. If I were them I'd take a look at the reason behind the bad publicity and try to resolve that first and THEN be concerned about the bad mouthing.

Realslowww
06-12-2012, 11:56 AM
I looked at the BadBoy decks and they appear to be stout but the rear baffels do not appear to be no where near as braced as my XR7.

mbigred
06-12-2012, 04:36 PM
I LOVE MY BB OUTLAW I did buy a BB zt 60 with the ele lift deck that i could not get the deck in the same place each time i used it it only had 5hrs on it . so i called my BB store and they said that I could trade up to a outlaw and that I would have to pay the dif $ between the two. so you see they work with you. but it is one bad mower lots of POWER :)

Hotrock911
06-12-2012, 09:06 PM
In all fairness, I really think BB has good intentions to become a factor in the commercial business. My dealer has even admitted that they have QQ issues. I have no ill feelings toward my dealer. He is a good man and would do anything I asked of him. I just don't believe he should bear the blount. My only reason for posting this review is because of my lack of respect of BB treatment of their customers. We're not talking about thousands of dollars(about 300-400). I just think that a company that's trully trying to break into the commercial business would try harder.

Hotrock911
06-12-2012, 09:31 PM
By "new design scalp wheels" if you mean 2011 scalp wheels, they sent me a complete set N/C. They started falling off within two weeks. BB recommended I locktight the wheels, which I did. They still fell off. I said in my original post that on the 2012 outlaw they put true locknuts on the wheels which SHOULD fix the problem. I can't help but doubt that it will. I think the spring problem was a technical problem with their engineering dept. Where in their manual(brochure) does it state where to adjust the spring? I can answer that, nowhere. Their own warranty manager told me to set it to the thickness of a credit card.

I spent 35 years in the automotive repair business. I understand what a dealer should do to keep a customer happy. But should he be responsible for BB's crappy engineering and lack of field testing? I don't think so.

As far as deleting this post, if that's what the mods want to to do with this, that's fine. I know what customer service is and this is not good customer service. If I can save someone the aggravation I've had, I've accomplished my goal.

BestImpressions99
06-13-2012, 11:46 AM
MBI, I think you need to read the thread before saying someone will work/not work with a person. Of course they'll work with you. You're paying the difference and trading up. They're not working with you AT ALL. They're just taking your money.

The problem is when you start to have difficulties with the machine within the warranty period or the same issue time and time again. THAT is where the problems/customer concern is coming from.

retrodog
06-13-2012, 12:02 PM
They field tested theirself pretty heavy, and also sent quite a few to florida (as it was off season during test period before release) and got quite a few changes to it before release. One big change was the 2 speed tranny.... I am very happy with their field testing, its just some issues take more than 35 or 50 units getting used for a couple of months to really come out.
Last year I got a XP prototype for nearly 5 months to bang around before the actual unit even got a release at the dealer meeting presentation, and it still has a few nitpicky things I would like to see different (I have never used a "perfect" mower, but its neat someone is listening and striving for it), Gravely and Bad Boy both are working on it pretty hard, and I think are world's over the competition in the "listening" department. The 460 and XP are a result of alot of that listening.... Cool thing about Bad Boy is everything they are doing for us and still not ridiculous on the pricing situation....
Op, send me a pm with your information, and I will forward up to the factory and maybe get you fixed up with a new height pin, some nuts that will hold your anti scalp wheels, and get you on the right track on your belt/spring issue...

Hotrock911
06-13-2012, 11:19 PM
Retro
Thanks for your offer. I received a call from a BB sales rep today and after explaining my problems to him he has agreed to get involved and help me. He said, basically, the same thing you did, that BB had redesigned the scalp wheels, solved the problem and also the height adj pin. What kind of irks me is that BB replaced the scalp wheels with the old style wheels in 2010 and didn't notify me of the change in 2011. I told Cliff at BB last week that the scalp wheels were still coming off and he didn't say anything about the new design hardware either.I guess my dealer didn't know of the change when he had my mower in 2011 so I thought I was struggling with new design wheels when I really was not. Also it bothers me that the same wheel came loose twice. I retired after managing tire stores for 34 years so trust me when I say that I know how to mount a tire and wheel assembly. The wheel was centered on the studs and torqued to 80 ft lb and should not have come off. The BB rep and my dealer thinks the wheel was left loose and I must admit, if I were them, I probably would also. Anyway, if the can keep stuff from falling off my mower, I'll be a happy camper. Thanks again for your assistance.

bisonfs05
11-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Was wondering if anyone has had any major issues with the 2012 bad boy outlaw? I am just starting apart time lanscaping business have about 12 small lawns with the biggest being a acre. Would like to to get around 40 yards max was wondering what ztr's you would recomend for me

wheebil
11-23-2012, 10:41 AM
Let me preface this review by saying that before I bought a 2010 Outlaw I researched Dixie Chopper, Xmark, Huskie, and several others. I decided on the Outlaw because of a relationship with Helms Tractor in Montgomery, Al. I've spent probably 40,000-50,000 with Dick Helms in the last 5 years and have developed a trusting relationship with him and still do. I've seen many people requesting reviews on the Bad Boy line and felt compelled to write this. I'm 64 years old and nobody rides my equipment but me. The mower has a 54 inch deck, 31HP kawasaki engine and ZT5400 drive train. I'll break this review down by year for the 2.5 years I've owned it:

2010
Within two weeks I started throwing belts and anti scalp wheels started falling off. Also, the height adj. pin kept vibrating out. Having an automotive background, I realized the problem was in the hardware(nuts and bolts). I contacted Bad Boy, explained the problem, and they sent me a new belt and a set of scalp wheels. This problem continued thru the 2010 cutting season. They even recommended that I locktite the hardware, which I did to no avail.

2011
At the beginning of the cutting season, I was still having problems with belts coming off.The manual(actually it's more of a brochure) stated to adjust the spring tension to the thickness of a credit card. After adjusting the spring I started breaking springs(3 of them). Disgusted, I took the mower to Helms. After a week he informed me the mower was ready. When I picked the mower up I checked the spring with a credit card and you could actually get three credit cards in the spring. When I asked him about it he said "oh, you have to adjust the spring by eye". Huh? I continued to have the original bolt and nut problem as in 2010 but managed to keep them from falling off by tightening them every other cutting.

2012
After about four cuttings(late April) while cutting I noticed some vibration and strange noises(a bad sign on this mower). I stopped it and noticed the deck had fallen off the hangers. After looking it over, I noticed the adjusting pin had fallen out and gotten lost, allowing the deck to fall on the ground and vibrated the deck off the hangers. I put a bolt and nut in place of the pin, reattached the the deck and loaded the mower up for Helms. When I got to Helms I showed him the scalp wheels, which had two hours on them since I tightened. They were extemely loose. The tech at Helms said John, your left rear wheel is loose, this is probably where your vibration is coming from.I had a flat in June, 2010, repaired the tire and re-torqued the wheel to 80 ft lb. This was about 35 hours ago.

I really didn't want to turn this into a book but after fighting with Bad Boy for a week they have told me the mower is out of warranty, although all the problems I've had have gone on since the mower was two weeks old. I can't say enough bad things about Bad Boy customer service. After looking at the 2012 Outlaw, I notice they have put a retainer line on the height adj. pin, Plastic inserts on the scalp wheels, and new specs on adjusting the spring tensioner. This tells me I have been used to test their equipment. All I asked them to do was to supply me with the parts to upgrade the mower.By the way, the plate that the front scalp wheels attach to had to be replaced from being run loose.

I sincerely hope Bad Boy has "fixed" these problems but I really have my doubts. I hope this helps someone who is considering this mower. My advice would be "Buyer Beware!")

Bought a Bad Boy Lightning Z in mid 2010 because my SCAG Tiger Cub was pretty much done for at 2000+ hours. WHAT A MISTAKE. hundred hours throwing and wearing out deck belt, 200 hours tension spring breaks, 200 hours I hit a water box. Impact cause the cooling fan to to come in contact with the fan cover. fan blows apart and sends pieces of shrapnel through the radiiator. 200 hours uncontrollable caster wheel wobble due to caster wheels being mounted directly below the fork and not set back. POOR design.300 hours deck actuator not allowing deck to lower straight or level. (cutting height of 1"-4" nowhere near high enough for spring cutting) 400 hours hydro pump blows. BAd Boy brags about their 16cc hydro pumps. Well, you're going to need them. The hydro drive system is SO sloppy you're either spinning tire and tearing up a lawn or moving fast. there is no in between. It's like driving a '72 cadillac with that big sloppy, ower steering. 426 hours Bad Boy is sold on Craigslist for $4400. I immediately purchase a Exmark Lazer Z. 400 + hours this year. NO PROBLEMS. NOTHING. MY Exmark dealer was approached by a rep from Bad Boy to sell their mowers. He told the guy about my nightmare. Undaunted, the rep gave them a demo. It never ran right and couldn't be used for it's intended purpose. You may save a few thousand on a Bad Boy over a Exmark or Scag but trust me, the headache of the Bad Boy compared to the piece of mind of Exmark/Scag is well worth the extra money.

crazyflyboy30
12-15-2012, 04:02 AM
They field tested theirself pretty heavy, and also sent quite a few to florida (as it was off season during test period before release) and got quite a few changes to it before release. One big change was the 2 speed tranny.... I am very happy with their field testing, its just some issues take more than 35 or 50 units getting used for a couple of months to really come out.
Last year I got a XP prototype for nearly 5 months to bang around before the actual unit even got a release at the dealer meeting presentation, and it still has a few nitpicky things I would like to see different (I have never used a "perfect" mower, but its neat someone is listening and striving for it), Gravely and Bad Boy both are working on it pretty hard, and I think are world's over the competition in the "listening" department. The 460 and XP are a result of alot of that listening.... Cool thing about Bad Boy is everything they are doing for us and still not ridiculous on the pricing situation....
Op, send me a pm with your information, and I will forward up to the factory and maybe get you fixed up with a new height pin, some nuts that will hold your anti scalp wheels, and get you on the right track on your belt/spring issue...

Please let me know if BB needs some one to do some field testing I have some big ruff 20 acres lotts and some with 30* slopes.

GMLC
12-15-2012, 07:13 AM
OP, any updates on your BB?

I hope everything worked out...

jrs.landscaping
12-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Please let me know if BB needs some one to do some field testing I have some big ruff 20 acres lotts and some with 30* slopes.

Same here, if they want some field testing done I have some properties like that as well.

StanWilhite
12-16-2012, 05:31 PM
OP, any updates on your BB?

I hope everything worked out...

HAHAHA......SURE you do! I know you COULDN'T be hoping for more bad press for BB.....now could you?......oh man........

GMLC
12-16-2012, 05:51 PM
HAHAHA......SURE you do! I know you COULDN'T be hoping for more bad press for BB.....now could you?......oh man........

Wow man you need help...I aways wish the best for fellow LCO's. I could care less about BB press, more concerned with down time that costs us a fortune. There are lessons on LS, some seem to get deleted, some dont....
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torotorotoro
12-23-2012, 10:14 PM
It's hard to keep poorly made equipment running that long. We will be reading about the problems the 2012 models have next year. Along with all the excuses about y it keeps falling apart. And how good the 2013 will be.

weeze
12-23-2012, 10:27 PM
i'll just say i've had my 2011 deere for the same amount of time as you had your BB outlaw. i have had zero problems. nothing has broken. i haven't had to replace anything other than normal maintenance like oil changes, greasing, filters, and blades.

still on original belts and deck hasn't moved any at all. it's still set exactly right where it was when i bought it. what is on the dial is the exact height the blades cut at.

orangemower
12-24-2012, 09:49 AM
i'll just say i've had my 2011 deere for the same amount of time as you had your BB outlaw. i have had zero problems. nothing has broken. i haven't had to replace anything other than normal maintenance like oil changes, greasing, filters, and blades.

still on original belts and deck hasn't moved any at all. it's still set exactly right where it was when i bought it. what is on the dial is the exact height the blades cut at.

You're comparing apples (JD) to oranges (BB) which isn't fair. :laugh:

orangemower
12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
You're comparing apples (JD) to oranges (BB) which isn't fair. :laugh:

Maybe if you owned a "Worldlawn" mower then you'd be comparing apples to apples. :laugh:

weaver
12-24-2012, 10:26 AM
Maybe if you owned a "Worldlawn" mower then you'd be comparing apples to apples. :laugh:

Here we go....:)
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weeze
12-24-2012, 12:45 PM
You're comparing apples (JD) to oranges (BB) which isn't fair. :laugh:

haha yeah i'm just saying be smart about what you buy :laugh:

a deal isn't always a deal in the longterm