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Dripit good
06-12-2012, 06:29 PM
How would you handle this? Of course the opportunity is there...especially during the blowout season. Neighbor comes up with cash while your tech is at a scheduled stop. Nobody will know, right?



Customer calls the office for service work...they are not in your client base. New customer, right? Wrong...

"I have a zone that won't shut down". Can you send someone out to fix the problem?"

Sure...who am I talking with?

"**** ****** @ 1234 Main street."

Can't find them in the computer :confused:

Are you sure we've been to your house before?

"Yes. **** has been blowing out my system. I'm ******'s neighbor."

They are not in the computer.

I give him the benefit doubt. Many times they will do "walk ups" as long as it doesn't put them off schedule. It's not unusual for them to turn in cash and/or checks with their daily logs. They are then added to our client base and sent a receipt of payment. This activity will always be documented on their logs...or should be.

Checking his log on the day he blew out all the neighbors, this "new customer" is not written down as being completed.

I have little doubt left as to what the truth is with this matter.


BTW ~ I'm talking about a 17 year employee here. Hard working man with valuable site and industry knowledge.

Wet_Boots
06-12-2012, 06:50 PM
Seems some sort of "added customer" bonus or incentive might cut down on this sort of thing.

1idejim
06-12-2012, 07:01 PM
How would you handle this? Of course the opportunity is there...especially during the blowout season. Neighbor comes up with cash while your tech is at a scheduled stop. Nobody will know, right?



Customer calls the office for service work...they are not in your client base. New customer, right? Wrong...

"I have a zone that won't shut down". Can you send someone out to fix the problem?"

Sure...who am I talking with?

"**** ****** @ 1234 Main street."

Can't find them in the computer :confused:

Are you sure we've been to your house before?

"Yes. **** has been blowing out my system. I'm ******'s neighbor."

They are not in the computer.

I give him the benefit doubt. Many times they will do "walk ups" as long as it doesn't put them off schedule. It's not unusual for them to turn in cash and/or checks with their daily logs. They are then added to our client base and sent a receipt of payment. This activity will always be documented on their logs...or should be.

Checking his log on the day he blew out all the neighbors, this "new customer" is not written down as being completed.

I have little doubt left as to what the truth is with this matter.


BTW ~ I'm talking about a 17 year employee here. Hard working man with valuable site and industry knowledge.

you are in a pickle my friend, if the issue was last year then it's tough to prove even if you know it's true.

if you spoke to the tech, explained that you have enough evidence to fire him and asked him what he would do in your boots, what do you think he'd say.

you can either drop him or put him on probation, 50/50 he's either done it before or he'll do it again.

best of luck on this :)

Dripit good
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
you are in a pickle my friend, if the issue was last year then it's tough to prove even if you know it's true.

Not too hard to prove.

I called the client back, nice older lady. I asked how she paid him. She says by check! I questioned this...."are you sure?" So she shuffles through her check book and tells me she made the check out directly to him!

I can't wrap my head around this. I can see the decision to put dead presidents in your pocket...but to have a walk up write a check out to you!!!!

WTF :dizzy:

1idejim
06-12-2012, 07:28 PM
Not too hard to prove.

I called the client back, nice older lady. I asked how she paid him. She says by check! I questioned this...."are you sure?" So she shuffles through her check book and tells me she made the check out directly to him!

I can't wrap my head around this. I can see the decision to put dead presidents in your pocket...but to have a walk up write a check out to you!!!!

WTF :dizzy:

that's just plain wrong, sorry pal, see ya!

Tanum
06-12-2012, 07:42 PM
Good evening
The question 1, Is the work you have scheduled for your employee being done in a timely manor? Q2. 17 years, he must be good, and if that is the case are you really going to fire him and start all over again. The fact of the matter is, your employee knows just as much as you do at this stage. The only reason he hasn't gone out on his own is cause he couldn't be bothered. If you do fire him you may have a rival that knows your customers and also knows what to charge.
Change his route, that is put him on with another crew, or you go out with him on calls. You "always" have to do spot checks on staff and customers. Customers need to know that you are the face of the company and "you" are not afraid to get your hands dirty too
How would I handle it? I would go to employee and say.. Ok I know you have being doing xy or z but it stops here and now. (more than likely he has a few, which supplements his income, and he may used to the "extra" income). Once he know his game is up, he may go with the flow or go after more of your contracts. I would be prepared for this. Be sure to ask your customers on a regular basis are they happy with "your company" send out letters telling them that as you are Blah Blah Blah which is so much better than a one man band. Getjobber has great software which we going to switch to ourselves. It may be something you should look into.

RedSox4Life
06-12-2012, 07:52 PM
Good evening
The question 1, Is the work you have scheduled for your employee being done in a timely manor? Q2. 17 years, he must be good, and if that is the case are you really going to fire him and start all over again. The fact of the matter is, your employee knows just as much as you do at this stage. The only reason he hasn't gone out on his own is cause he couldn't be bothered. If you do fire him you may have a rival that knows your customers and also knows what to charge.
Change his route, that is put him on with another crew, or you go out with him on calls. You "always" have to do spot checks on staff and customers. Customers need to know that you are the face of the company and "you" are not afraid to get your hands dirty too
How would I handle it? I would go to employee and say.. Ok I know you have being doing xy or z but it stops here and now. (more than likely he has a few, which supplements his income, and he may used to the "extra" income). Once he know his game is up, he may go with the flow or go after more of your contracts. I would be prepared for this. Be sure to ask your customers on a regular basis are they happy with "your company" send out letters telling them that as you are Blah Blah Blah which is so much better than a one man band. Getjobber has great software which we going to switch to ourselves. It may be something you should look into.

Above post sounds reasonable, but...... This proves extreme dishonesty on the employees part. What else is he doing that youre not aware of? Is this really the type of person you want as an employee? Regardless of how long hes been with you?

bcg
06-12-2012, 08:02 PM
A thief is a thief. Whatever it costs to get rid of him, it's worth it.

Tanum
06-12-2012, 08:03 PM
I can tell you this for free, if a worker is good. More than likely he/she are doing a few jobs on the side anyway. You have to turn a blind eye, otherwise you will lose good staff. Once it doesn't interfere with my work day, schedule or potential customers its ok ish. Cause some jobs are just too small. That is just the nature of the business.

easy-lift guy
06-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Gather all othe facts and have a meeting with him. If he admits to the theft after you have presented your facts to him, SACK HIM!, on the spot. If he denies the action after you have presented your facts, SACK HIM!!. Never tolerate theft with your business.
easy-lift guy

bcg
06-12-2012, 08:17 PM
I can tell you this for free, if a worker is good. More than likely he/she are doing a few jobs on the side anyway. You have to turn a blind eye, otherwise you will lose good staff. Once it doesn't interfere with my work day, schedule or potential customers its ok ish. Cause some jobs are just too small. That is just the nature of the business.

There is a difference between doing jobs on the side, with his own tools and material, and taking a job away from his employer while using his employer's tools and material. It's not about whether or not he stayed on schedule, he didn't just steal the money from that job, he stole everything needed to do the job AND the company only got the benefit of still being held liable for any mistakes he might make. Sounds like a pretty crappy deal to me. If he were my employee, he'd have to go.

greenmonster304
06-12-2012, 08:24 PM
Where I live and work if you don't own the company you are doing side work to get by. The cost of living is so high. I know many will dissgree but I have told the guys that work for me "what you do on your time is your business but if you are on my time you work for me and if you steal material or customers you are done".
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1idejim
06-12-2012, 08:29 PM
I can tell you this for free, if a worker is good. More than likely he/she are doing a few jobs on the side anyway. You have to turn a blind eye, otherwise you will lose good staff. Once it doesn't interfere with my work day, schedule or potential customers its ok ish. Cause some jobs are just too small. That is just the nature of the business.

the way i always worked side jobs was,
1. bring it to me for a look see
2. if you do it, you charge what i would (no under bids)
3. if you run into trouble, call me first. i always stood behind my men for their quality.
4. screw me and you're gone, don't matter how much it hurts.

Tanum
06-12-2012, 08:30 PM
I am not saying I am right. Just that it goes on, but not on my time. Just invoice the employee for the job. Love to see his face when he opens it though. I never have my staff go to the same sites week in, week out, I shift them around. In the event an employee is out or on holiday I need all staff to be able to cover the site at a moments notice. This way an employee can not predict where they will be in a weeks time. Keeps them on their toes.

DanaMac
06-12-2012, 08:48 PM
I would for sure call him out on it. Make it known that you know what's going on, and that the s**t stops now. I would also tell him that he personally is responsible for fixing her system, on his time, with his tools. FOR FREE. No charge to her.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-12-2012, 09:49 PM
Tough issue but its like in sports and sex. Superstars and hot girls get cut some slack. If the guy's a great employee and does what is asked of him and does it well then looking the other way may not be such a bad thing. He brought in a new customer. He won't be able to pull that with her next time.

Mark B
06-12-2012, 10:27 PM
Tough issue but its like in sports and sex. Superstars and hot girls get cut some slack. If the guy's a great employee and does what is asked of him and does it well then looking the other way may not be such a bad thing. He brought in a new customer. He won't be able to pull that with her next time.

I like both Fimco & Jims idea as well. Think you can turn it into a good situation for both, it is all how you handle it. Maybe you can use this so he knows you are serious, but he can talk to you about it if it happens again. But I might have a weird way of looking at thinks.

Dripit good
06-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Outstanding advice. Thank you

Unfortunatly we have tried and failed at incentive programs that work.

I am not the owner. I did consult with him and he's of the opinion I fire him.

There is no consern of him stealing customers. I've let him and others do side work. I'm pretty easy to get along with. He has been an important part of our team over the years. And I like him as a person. The amount of $$ involved is not important.

What you don't know is I caught him doing this maybe 10 or so years ago. I did tell him at that time that I couldn't believe he would jeopardize his job for a few bucks...and the next time you do this I will have to fire you.

It is my call. I'm really torn on which way to go. It will be a setback to the company and the clients to let him go. It will also put him in a bad situation. I know I should let him go...but I'm stretching for punishment and forgiveness.

DanaMac
06-12-2012, 11:08 PM
How about a day off, unpaid? Give him time to reflect. And go fishing :)
Confront him, explain any further consequences if it happens again, and move on. Maybe explain that whatever he was paid, will be deducted from the next bonus.

Dripit good
06-12-2012, 11:11 PM
I was thinking a week off and unpaid...then making a final decision.

DanaMac
06-12-2012, 11:18 PM
A week seems pretty harsh. Two days would make for some great fishing though.
Take some time to think about it, doubt overreact immediately.

Darryl G
06-12-2012, 11:21 PM
This could just be the tip of the iceberg you know. How is your part inventory system? Is it all in balance. Could he be doing installs on the side with company parts and equipment. Does he take a company truck home? How about gas credit cards...is his truck getting 2 miles per gallon when you tally up his gas receipts (i.e. buying gas for friends and family on the company tab)? I think you need to do some more digging...go through his logs for the last few months and see if there are any gaps. My guess is that is you do some more investigation you will find clear reason to fire him.

Kiril
06-12-2012, 11:27 PM
that's just plain wrong, sorry pal, see ya!

Found out how much money he took from the lady without reporting it, then deduct it from his paycheck, with interest, and with no reason given.

Dripit good
06-12-2012, 11:37 PM
He does not take a truck home. I'm ashamed to admit our inventory control is poor.

I don't hesitate on the deduct. I like the deduct...but I don't want to play a game with this one.

Darryl G
06-12-2012, 11:45 PM
Might wanna pick an item or 3 in your inventory and see how many you purchased vs how many you sold to see if they might be "disappearing". My experience having worked with dishonest employees is that they will take every opportunity they can to take advantage of the company...bogus meal tickets, inflated personal vehicle miles, pilfering supplies, bogus out-out-pocket expenses etc. All of these may not apply to you but just saying that there's a good chance there's more to it than you know.

avernon0112
06-13-2012, 12:55 AM
I am a employee at a company. We do all commercial work. If a person ask me about doing work at their house I will always run it thru the boss first. Most of the time it is the property managers who come asking for work to be done for them. I always get his stuff done first then my stuff. I drive a company truck home and he does not mind if I do work for my family using his tools. But no matter what I ALWAYS run it by him to make sure it is fine. I pay for my own parts to work with. I know that if I tried to work on my stuff during the day I would and should be let go. I have worked where I am for 5 years and have a good relationship with the owner but if I lied to him about stuff like that I would be gone in a minute. If you can't trust your employees then they are no good.

Kiril
06-13-2012, 12:57 AM
I don't hesitate on the deduct. I like the deduct...but I don't want to play a game with this one.

I was more or less kidding about that. A 17 year employee is rather valuable, but going behind your back like that is wrong. Only you know the guy and if the chance of this kind of behavior is the norm rather than the exception, so only you know what the best course of action is.

mitchgo
06-13-2012, 01:39 AM
I'm a Crewman and periodically get asked from homeowners this very same thing. I always deny and pretty much view them as a doeuch bag personality who has the mind set to get the cheapest thing possible... Sorry $xx bucks isn't worth it to more to work for that kind of person.

As a crewman.. I have done my own side work on our downtime in the winter. I've asked my boss first, of course he doesn't like it. The job has always been out of our service area.. I've always done the job entirely by my self with muscle and shovel with my own bought tools and I will charge out the @ss with no discounts. But by mindset isn't particularly to make more money... It's the fact we slowed down and I'm just keeping my self busy. That's just the kind of person I am.

So since it's not your pay.. Can we ask what a 17 year vet at your company is making annually? Maybe he feels it's not enough?

Catching him once 10 years ago..It's time to let that one go- how many things have you done wrong in 10 years? That does go without saying- I've caught you this time , so how many times have you done with this with out me catching you?

Me personally I would call him out and have a sit down with him.. Explain the importance of why this shouldn't be done... I think a 17 year vet would have do something worse for that to get canned.. I mean this isn't corporate right... I've heard stupid stories of 20 year vets making simple mistakes and being let go because it's corporate and there just a #. On small time 10-50 ppl companies... These are peoples actual lives that's being effected.

easy-lift guy
06-13-2012, 05:11 AM
Good news bad news solution for this non problem. The bad news is after Two separate occasions he has been caught stealing, Sack Him Now, and for good measure give your self a week off unpaid for costing the company unknow amounts of income over the years. Of course the last item is optional since I would not want you to be to hard on yourself. The good news is that for everyone else that has posted a reply or suggestion encouraging more bad behavior and or rewarding the same with additional chances to have history repeate it's self. Tell the person who is also a part time thief to apply for work with these companies. It sounds like regardless of his past he could find employment with these companies and still work part time stealing, I am sure they would be understanding based on their replys.
easy-lift guy

the irrigator
06-13-2012, 08:24 PM
It is difficult to let a 17 year veteran go. But if he was caught doing the same thing before and he was warned then your credibility is at stake. He has most likely been doing this for awhile. I would keep a careful eye on him (inventory, truck use, time, etc.)
while making plans to replace him. Let him go when the timing suits you. It's a tough decision.

jvanvliet
06-13-2012, 08:47 PM
It's not a tough decision and no discussion necesary, a copy of the lady's check attached to his pink slip and Jesse James is Alpha Mike Foxtrot.

I'm not having a sensitivity session with an employee that steals.

CAPT Stream Rotar
06-13-2012, 09:05 PM
I would send him to her house for more work...

He'll figure it out...

" Hey Jimmy can you get billing info for her"

:)

BrandonV
06-13-2012, 09:13 PM
I would send him to her house for more work...

He'll figure it out...

" Hey Jimmy can you get billing info for her"

:)

great minds think alike... also you service guys need GPS tracking your stuff. then when project a takes twice as long you've got a red flag.

CAPT Stream Rotar
06-13-2012, 09:26 PM
my company is to cheap to do that but why not..

I've got nothing to hide..

If I need to take a sh!t @ my house, guess what.

DanaMac
06-13-2012, 09:38 PM
When it's time that I need Big Brother watching over my employees, it's time for me to get rid of the employees. Not doing GPS with mine.
I had an issue about two years ago, where I got a bill in the mail for our work van, on a toll road in Denver. They shoot the license plate, and mail you the bill. It was on a Sunday night, and I wondered what the hell the employee was doing. What was he THINKING!! He takes the van home from April 1 to late November. I stewed about it a week or two, and finally asked him about it. He adamantly denied it. So, I let it go, and paid the bill. I got another one a few weeks later. I called the state company that runs this toll road, and they looked up the camera shot. Not our vehicle. Bad shot of the license plate.
Moral of the story, I could have flown off the handle and fired him, but I didn't. I let it go, looked into it the second time, and realized I could have lost a great employee if I made a quick, rash decision.

CAPT Stream Rotar
06-13-2012, 09:45 PM
This is a dirty thing to do to employees but if the boss wanted to be a jerk he could have a friend who lives in the area of work...stop by...hey hows it going blah blah blah...i need some trees down but don't want to pay high prices...Can I have your number maybe you can take a look at it for me?

Thats a very sh!tty way to figure out if an employee is honest or not...

When ever anyone tries to offer me cash I usually laugh and tell them that your 250$ is not worth my job benefits vacation time ect...

Then I always tell my boss... we laugh..

Sprinkus
06-13-2012, 11:00 PM
I just got done with a job where the HO was having a tree full of killer bees cut down. Turns out that the guy was doing this job on the side during work hours!
The HO also told me that he was trying to get her to let him do a sprinkler repair too. :hammerhead:

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-13-2012, 11:02 PM
Employee brings in 300,000/yr. employee earns owner 50-75,000/yr. employee does this every year. Yeah can that employee and then what? I can assure you he is making the company way more than the peanuts he is stealing. Bring him in. Read him the riot act. Let him go home and stew unpaid for a few days and then put him on probation for a year. An employee that comes in late. Works slow. Stops at every 7-11 costs you way more than a 17 year employee that takes a little on the side.

Tom Tom
06-13-2012, 11:11 PM
show him the door and sleep better

Autoflow
06-14-2012, 12:07 AM
I would have a chat to him about it and see what he says. If he denies it and you have the proof I would blow up and fire him, but if he admits it and says he has done it x amount of times and is genuinely sorry, then you can come to some sort of agreement on punishment. I would probably call him early afternoon and say we need to speak about doing jobs on the side and leave it at that so he can think about how he will approach talking to you about it for a few hours knowing you have some info.

It's a shitty situation for you both as he could lose his job, and you need to replace a previously good worker who has made a dumb decision to steal off you. As mentioned by Fimco, if he earns you good money it would be a shame to lose him over this, but you can't have guys stealing off you either. Listen to his reasoning of why he did it and if he is genuinely sorry. An incentive bonus for bringing in new clients might be in order to prevent this happening. If you find it continues, then flick him.

txirrigation
06-14-2012, 12:39 AM
I go to the other extreme, I set up side jobs for my guys. Just about every other week I set up a Saturday with jobs I did not want to run through the company, and let the guys use my tools. They have to buy the parts etc.

This is why I do this:

So they know how much it SUCKS to be the boss when a ITCHY cheap ssa calls you back 100 times. They seem to prefer to just get paid at the end of the week and go home.

Dripit good
06-14-2012, 06:37 AM
I would send him to her house for more work...

He'll figure it out...



I do have her service call on his docket for today.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 07:16 AM
I do have her service call on his docket for today.

It is a pity that this person is still working for the same company that he has been caught stealing from at least Two different times in the past. We're you planning on having a TV crew steaked out ready to record the look on his face when he arrived?. Is your need to embarrass this person more than he already has been in the past over other matters that great?. It seems to me that your willing to drag this matter out further for your own entertainment value, which is really sad IMHO. A real manager or supervisor would have Fired this employee in the beginning, or perhaps this information has been with held from the actual owner or owners of said company to protect the guilty parties across the board?. I guess what would be really funny is when the valuable employee hires an attorney to represent his rights being violated due to the emotional trauma you have put him through, I wonder if your risk management department considered that or the owners of the company?
easy-lift guy

gcbailey
06-14-2012, 07:56 AM
tell him that you were doing a deposit and seemed to have misplaced Mrs. so and so's check, you know she called and he went to do a service call, but you seem to have lost the check and you even called to ask her how exactly she paid. Play dumb and see what he says.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-14-2012, 08:11 AM
There is no such thing as a "real" manager. Is the purpose of the business to operate at its highest max profitability or be a nunnery? Every employee in some way or another rips off the company he works for. This is a more obvious and blatant rip off but shoddy work is a rip off and I've seen many an employer put up with shoddy work for a long time. I dont see adding a customer as a full blown rip off. Hit him up for your share of the cost of doing business and thank him for adding a new customer.
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Tanum
06-14-2012, 08:49 AM
Fimco mister. Great idea.. I too have come across this problem.. found out this morning.. I rang the "new client" back a few mins ago and they are happier to go with the company..hehehe.. I also told them the usual guy will be working by my side from now on.. I guess he will have to pick up the pace.. you should have seen his face when I said tks for the new client and he looked like he was sentenced to life ..re working with me... I guess he will leave soon....
Posted via Mobile Device

Dripit good
06-14-2012, 09:06 AM
It is a pity that this person is still working for the same company that he has been caught stealing from at least Two different times in the past. We're you planning on having a TV crew steaked out ready to record the look on his face when he arrived?. Is your need to embarrass this person more than he already has been in the past over other matters that great?. It seems to me that your willing to drag this matter out further for your own entertainment value, which is really sad IMHO. A real manager or supervisor would have Fired this employee in the beginning, or perhaps this information has been with held from the actual owner or owners of said company to protect the guilty parties across the board?. I guess what would be really funny is when the valuable employee hires an attorney to represent his rights being violated due to the emotional trauma you have put him through, I wonder if your risk management department considered that or the owners of the company?
easy-lift guy


Your conclusion jumps are awesome! :laugh: Thank you Mr. Spice. :drinkup:

This is a prime and wonderful example of what makes the world go around....huge differences of beliefs and opinions in people.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 09:27 AM
Your conclusion jumps are awesome! :laugh: Thank you Mr. Spice. :drinkup:

This is a prime and wonderful example of what makes the world go around....huge differences of beliefs and opinions in people.

I suspect denial may be more common with how you and the company you work for handle issues with regards to theft and other matters. My comments are based on the facts presented by the the author of this thread.
The employee in question would not only have been fired by my company
but I also would have also had charges press against him as well.
It seems that the apathy regarding the need to be proactive as opposed to reactive is really troubling, based on the replies by some. It hardens back a bit of advise given to me by my college professor when he said fire incompent
employees at once, this would include the ones stealing from the firm as well.
I believe it is still possible to salvage this problem by firing the thief and making sure that the rest of the staff understands that this behavior is not tolerated or condoned by management or the owners of the company. I would be curious if the owners or even the Police are aware of this problem with this company?
easy-lift guy

Kiril
06-14-2012, 09:33 AM
Did anyone here consider that perhaps this guy doesn't feel like he is doing anything wrong? Let's play devils advocate here. Woman walks up to you and asks you to do a 20 minute (or less) job for her. She is not a customer of the company, and your shitt is already rolled out for the neighbor. Beyond the time being spent on the employers dime, nothing is literally being "stolen", so what's the big deal? There is a good chance that is how this guy is thinking.

Now I have let guys go for doing something similar (a lot worse actually) to me, but that isn't the point. If the guy doesn't think he is doing anything wrong he will keep doing it, no if, ands, or buts about it.

Kiril
06-14-2012, 09:40 AM
I suspect denial may be more common with how you and the company you work for handle issues with regards to theft and other matters. My comments are based on the facts presented by the the author of this thread.

He is the author of this thread.


The employee in question would not only have been fired by my company
but I also would have also had charges press against him as well.
It seems that the apathy regarding the need to be proactive as opposed to reactive is really troubling, based on the replies by some. It hardens back a bit of advise given to me by my college professor when he said fire incompent
employees at once, this would include the ones stealing from the firm as well.
I believe it is still possible to salvage this problem by firing the thief and making sure that the rest of the staff understands that this behavior is not tolerated or condoned by management or the owners of the company. I would be curious if the owners or even the Police are aware of this problem with this company?
easy-lift guy

Hey, why not throw everyone in jail that we don't like ..... or better yet .... execute them. You know, jails and the big brother mentality are always the preferred solution for those miscreants that don't live up to your standards. :rolleyes:

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Fimco mister. Great idea.. I too have come across this problem.. found out this morning.. I rang the "new client" back a few mins ago and they are happier to go with the company..hehehe.. I also told them the usual guy will be working by my side from now on.. I guess he will have to pick up the pace.. you should have seen his face when I said tks for the new client and he looked like he was sentenced to life ..re working with me... I guess he will leave soon....
Posted via Mobile Device

Ireland wow. :irishflag:

DanaMac
06-14-2012, 10:04 AM
Think of all the liberties that maybe the company has taken over the 17 years from this employee:
how many required 15 minute breaks did he not get or take?
Did he work through lunch, or only take 15 minutes instead of 30?
Did he go out of his way to take care of a few things on his own time - in 17 years?
Did he use his vehicle to run to the supply house early in the morning to pick up parts that the company did not have on hand?

What comes around goes around. If that is the least of the problems with this employee, I say confront him and let it go. At the same time though, I don't know the employees record or other faults or good points. If he has been a PITA, let him go. If he has been otherwise a model employee, keep him, but with a better set of rules and known punishments.

Dripit good
06-14-2012, 11:01 AM
Think of all the liberties that maybe the company has taken over the 17 years from this employee:
how many required 15 minute breaks did he not get or take?
Did he work through lunch, or only take 15 minutes instead of 30?
Did he go out of his way to take care of a few things on his own time - in 17 years?
Did he use his vehicle to run to the supply house early in the morning to pick up parts that the company did not have on hand?


:clapping::clapping:

Pay attention Mr. Spice...here's a man with superior, reasonable and accurate assumption abilities that you can learn from.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 11:28 AM
:clapping::clapping:

Pay attention Mr. Spice...here's a man with superior, reasonable and accurate assumption abilities that you can learn from.

Your veteran employee has more than likely taken advantage of the owners of the company that you both work for so many times that your use to it, or oblivious to it, back to being in denial. Your employee has the best of both worlds at his disposal. He works for a company while being able to steal from same company with no overhead and concern for being called out or evening getting fired in the process. I would fire both of you on the spot if I was the owner, but than again I am pretty sure I would not have hired either of you in the first place as well, really it nothing personel, Your'e FIRED.
easy-lift guy

DanaMac
06-14-2012, 11:57 AM
Your veteran employee has more than likely taken advantage of the owners of the company that you both work for so many times that your use to it, or oblivious to it, back to being in denial. Your employee has the best of both worlds at his disposal. He works for a company while being able to steal from same company with no overhead and concern for being called out or evening getting fired in the process. I would fire both of you on the spot if I was the owner, but than again I am pretty sure I would not have hired either of you in the first place as well, really it nothing personel, Your'e FIRED.
easy-lift guy

And honestly, you're probably a person that we would not to work for, and would have turned down a job offer from. Nothing personal, as you said. Just good business.

I want, and have, a personal relationship with my employees. Not a robotic, standard, to the letter, systematic approach with them. They make my life easier, and profitable. Hell, one of my employees has befriended a customer over the last year. The customer is older, his wife died this winter, and the two each have a common interest in playing music. The customer sold my guy an antique ukelele, and other musical instruments. My guy was up at the customer's home on Saturday for 4 hours, B.S.ing with him, and helping him along with being alone now. He was shown photos of the couple from their early days, and learned a lot about the wife. THAT RIGHT THERE - is the employee I want. And if that means he may occasionally take advantage of me and my company, well so be it. I'll take that any day.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 12:17 PM
And honestly, you're probably a person that we would not to work for, and would have turned down a job offer from. Nothing personal, as you said. Just good business.

I want, and have, a personal relationship with my employees. Not a robotic, standard, to the letter, systematic approach with them. They make my life easier, and profitable. Hell, one of my employees has befriended a customer over the last year. The customer is older, his wife died this winter, and the two each have a common interest in playing music. The customer sold my guy an antique ukelele, and other musical instruments. My guy was up at the customer's home on Saturday for 4 hours, B.S.ing with him, and helping him along with being alone now. He was shown photos of the couple from their early days, and learned a lot about the wife. THAT RIGHT THERE - is the employee I want. And if that means he may occasionally take advantage of me and my company, well so be it. I'll take that any day.

That's a really nice story to share and has nothing to do with the topic at hand .
If your happy with the employees that you have, than keep them, if your not happy with them your entitled to do with them as you see fit. It your business live with the consequences for your actions.
easy-lift guy

DanaMac
06-14-2012, 12:30 PM
That's a really nice story to share and has nothing to do with the topic at hand .
If your happy with the employees that you have, than keep them, if your not happy with them your entitled to do with them as you see fit. It your business live with the consequences for your actions.
easy-lift guy

It has everything to do with the topic at hand. It shows that some employees have some common sense, and respect for others. They go out of their way, above and beyond, for the customer, and the company. And if the employee occasionally takes advantage of the company, it shouldn't be a big deal. My guys both know to ask me about side jobs. But they never do them. They don't want to or care to do extra work at night or on the weekends. They usually turn down the neighbor that comes over while they are on site, as their schedule is usually overbooked anyway.

Tanum
06-14-2012, 02:06 PM
I guess at this stage we should have a court case.. I will inform the firing squad.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mark Oomkes
06-14-2012, 02:22 PM
I suspect denial may be more common with how you and the company you work for handle issues with regards to theft and other matters. My comments are based on the facts presented by the the author of this thread.
The employee in question would not only have been fired by my company
but I also would have also had charges press against him as well.
It seems that the apathy regarding the need to be proactive as opposed to reactive is really troubling, based on the replies by some. It hardens back a bit of advise given to me by my college professor when he said fire incompent
employees at once, this would include the ones stealing from the firm as well.
I believe it is still possible to salvage this problem by firing the thief and making sure that the rest of the staff understands that this behavior is not tolerated or condoned by management or the owners of the company. I would be curious if the owners or even the Police are aware of this problem with this company?
easy-lift guy

Wow, you keep sounding like a bigger jerk with each post.

FWIW, I would have fired him the first time. But I still can't make those assumptions that you have made.

Think of all the liberties that maybe the company has taken over the 17 years from this employee:
how many required 15 minute breaks did he not get or take?
Did he work through lunch, or only take 15 minutes instead of 30?

Somewhat off topic here, but the state of MI nor the Feds require any type of lunch, coffee or smoke break. There is no 15 minute break required for this employee. No requirements regarding pay for a 30 minute break, either.

And likewise, how many personal calls did this employee take over those 17 years? Smoke breaks? Extra time at the gas station, supply house, etc? This goes both ways.

Your veteran employee has more than likely taken advantage of the owners of the company that you both work for so many times that your use to it, or oblivious to it, back to being in denial. Your employee has the best of both worlds at his disposal. He works for a company while being able to steal from same company with no overhead and concern for being called out or evening getting fired in the process. I would fire both of you on the spot if I was the owner, but than again I am pretty sure I would not have hired either of you in the first place as well, really it nothing personel, Your'e FIRED.
easy-lift guy

OK, I hope this part doesn't get deleted, but you sir, are an idiot. You don't know dripit, you don't know the situation, you don't know JACK SQUAT other than what has been said in this thread.

Based on your opinion of firing both of them and not hiring dripit without really knowing anything, I think I will never buy anything from you, no matter how good a product you sell.

Unbelievable.

dripit, fire him. It's only fair for the company and your customers. And other employees. I was of the opine to speak with him and not fire him until you said this was the second time. Now it's time.

I know you know that deep down. You are a very fair individual, but this guy has taken advantage of you, at least twice.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 03:12 PM
Wow, you keep sounding like a bigger jerk with each post.

FWIW, I would have fired him the first time. But I still can't make those assumptions that you have made.



Somewhat off topic here, but the state of MI nor the Feds require any type of lunch, coffee or smoke break. There is no 15 minute break required for this employee. No requirements regarding pay for a 30 minute break, either.

And likewise, how many personal calls did this employee take over those 17 years? Smoke breaks? Extra time at the gas station, supply house, etc? This goes both ways.



OK, I hope this part doesn't get deleted, but you sir, are an idiot. You don't know dripit, you don't know the situation, you don't know JACK SQUAT other than what has been said in this thread.

Based on your opinion of firing both of them and not hiring dripit without really knowing anything, I think I will never buy anything from you, no matter how good a product you sell.

Unbelievable.

dripit, fire him. It's only fair for the company and your customers. And other employees. I was of the opine to speak with him and not fire him until you said this was the second time. Now it's time.

I know you know that deep down. You are a very fair individual, but this guy has taken advantage of you, at least twice.

I have commented on this thread based on the information posted by the author and additional comments made by others on this site. I am not sure what it means to know the author of this thread or not, since it is about someone that has stolen from the company that he works for. I believe the part about hiring and firing the author was more tongue and cheek but you entitled to your opinion all the same. I don't really care if you buy my product.
If you had taken the time to read this thread from the biginning to the end you maybe would have discovered that most people think that this employee should be fired and it seems that since you finally discovered that this theft has taken place Two times in 17 years that this same employee should be fired.
easy-lift guy

Mark Oomkes
06-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I have commented on this thread based on the information posted by the author and additional comments made by others on this site. I am not sure what it means to know the author of this thread or not, since it is about someone that has stolen from the company that he works for. I believe the part about hiring and firing the author was more tongue and cheek but you entitled to your opinion all the same. I don't really care if you buy my product.
If you had taken the time to read this thread from the biginning to the end you maybe would have discovered that most people think that this employee should be fired and it seems that since you finally discovered that this theft has taken place Two times in 17 years that this same employee should be fired.
easy-lift guy

I have and did long before I posted. I started following it from the day it was posted. I just held my peace until I read what you said about dripit.

Nice attitude, though. :dizzy:

fentonlawncare
06-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Very interesting thread going on here. After my first post (different post) on this website about starting my new business easy-lift guy only had negative and unhelpful suggestions for me without knowing my situation. Seems like he has a real negative viewpoint. Best of luck in life easy-lift guy.

Mark Oomkes
06-14-2012, 06:54 PM
Very interesting thread going on here. After my first post (different post) on this website about starting my new business easy-lift guy only had negative and unhelpful suggestions for me without knowing my situation. Seems like he has a real negative viewpoint. Best of luck in life easy-lift guy.

Makes you want to run out and buy one, doesn't it?

Not sure how you're over your head when you haven't really started yet, good luck.

jvanvliet
06-14-2012, 07:04 PM
Good grief! I don't understand how this thread degenerated. The guy stole 2x you know of in 17 years. There are very likely other occasions too. A bond of trust has been broken, it's time for him to move on.

Like Dana, we treat our employees like family, we consider them assets not chattel... BUT, if they lie, steal or shop jobs without letting us know it's adios; period.

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 07:20 PM
Very interesting thread going on here. After my first post (different post) on this website about starting my new business easy-lift guy only had negative and unhelpful suggestions for me without knowing my situation. Seems like he has a real negative viewpoint. Best of luck in life easy-lift guy.

I guess your referring to my negative and unhelpful suggestion about scheduling an appointment with a SCORE councilor and have them help you with your specific business plans. I have never heard of anyone thinking that an appointment with a SCORE councilor being negative and unhelpful.
Not to derail this thread any more than has already been done the reason
for my suggestion was because I do believe that the amount of work you said you were taking on was rather substantial and although you said you had someone helping with your web-site/SEO and printing some door knob cards to advertise for services rendered, there is a lot more to running a business than the above mentioned items, not that there not important. My view point is based on 30 years in the industry and for the last 20 years manufacturing and selling products to customers around the world. It works for me and the councilors with SCORE have been instrumental with guiding and providing me and Thousands of individuals all over this country with timely advise and opinions based on thousands of years of experience.
easy-lift guy

easy-lift guy
06-14-2012, 07:22 PM
Good grief! I don't understand how this thread degenerated. The guy stole 2x you know of in 17 years. There are very likely other occasions too. A bond of trust has been broken, it's time for him to move on.

Like Dana, we treat our employees like family, we consider them assets not chattel... BUT, if they lie, steal or shop jobs without letting us know it's adios; period.

You Sir are a wise man. All the best.
easy-lift guy

Mark B
06-14-2012, 07:25 PM
Would someone pass me the popcorn?

1idejim
06-14-2012, 07:34 PM
I guess at this stage we should have a court case.. I will inform the firing squad.
Posted via Mobile Device

advise them to bring their eazylift rifle holder uppers :)

DanaMac
06-14-2012, 07:35 PM
Would someone pass me the popcorn?

Buttered? Salt? How 'bout some carmel corn?

DanaMac
06-14-2012, 07:40 PM
I think we have all done stupid sh!t in our lives. Things that we know were wrong. And if we'd never been given another chance to make amends and learn from our mistakes, many of us would not have succeeded in life or business. Sure, there may be more to the story and the situation. And it could be that is all there has been pocketed over the years as well. Every one of us is jumping to conclusions. Not a whole lot of compassion in this thread.

1idejim
06-14-2012, 07:46 PM
I can tell you this for free, if a worker is good. More than likely he/she are doing a few jobs on the side anyway. You have to turn a blind eye,

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mark B
06-14-2012, 07:54 PM
Boy, if y'all saw where I work and what everyone gets away with you would go CRAZY. But that is the reason we are the largest private held software company!! I think the way the owner of the company looks at his employees could be part of every company!!

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-14-2012, 11:07 PM
So every ten years this guy screws up and gets caught. My guess is he is a screw up based on circumstances. I doubt he is actively seeking ways to ripoff his employer. Difference to me at least between an employee plotting ways to screw his employer and one who is presented an unexpected opportunity to pick up some quick easy money while still doing the job his employer has laid out for him. The person you replace him with may be a bonafide thief. John jr got screwed out of 30,000 by some lieing plotting sales person turning in phoney contracts.
Posted via Mobile Device

AI Inc
06-17-2012, 08:22 AM
Rule here for blowouts is employee keeps the cash, I keep the customer.