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View Full Version : ESP-SMT run times vs. schedule times, watering window, and INCOMPLETE!


camner
06-19-2012, 08:45 PM
The ESP-SMT had the following in terms of what it did on June 17:

6:30 INCOMPLETE <--I know what this means, but see below
Z5 6:15 DONE
Z1 5:49 DONE
Z7 5:11 DONE
Z6 5:06 DONE

Z9 30 MIN SCHED
Z7 13 MIN SCHED
Z6 64 MIN SCHED
Z5 54 MIN SCHED
Z3 26 MIN SCHED
Z2 30 MIN SCHED
Z1 72 MIN SCHED

A few questions...

1. The watering window is set for 2:30am-6:30am. So why does the first zone report a finish reporting 5:06 (with a scheduled run time of 64 minutes)? The controller obviously was stopped by the end of the watering window. With a 2:30am watering window start time, shouldn't the controller have started closer to 2:30am rather than at 4am or so?

2. The scheduled run times don't match the actual run times! For example, Z7 said it was finished 6 minutes after the previous zone (Z6) said it was finished. But Z7 was scheduled for 13 minutes. Why?

3. Supposedly, if the controller schedules more run time than exists within the watering window, the controller shuts off the system when the watering window "end" time is hit (6:30 in the example above) and then it "resumes in the next available window." BUT, in the example above, zones 2, 3, and 9 did not get watered. So, they should be watered the next day (the next time the watering window opens). But they weren't. The controller reports no watering of zones 2, 3, and 9 on the 18th. Not on the 19th, either. It appears as if the controller "forgets" about the zones that were scheduled but not run due to the watering window expiring. This doesn't make sense to me.

Any help would be appreciated.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-19-2012, 09:53 PM
You aren't alone. It doesn't necessarily do the scheduled amounts. Sometimes it will do less if the situation dictates a lesser irrigation amount. It can be confusing. I can assure you though it isn't forgetting unfinished watering cycles. Why don't you try running it for a week from 4:30 to 8:30 pm to get comfortable with it. Assuming you live with this irrigation system.

camner
06-19-2012, 10:15 PM
You aren't alone. It doesn't necessarily do the scheduled amounts. Sometimes it will do less if the situation dictates a lesser irrigation amount. It can be confusing. I can assure you though it isn't forgetting unfinished watering cycles. Why don't you try running it for a week from 4:30 to 8:30 pm to get comfortable with it. Assuming you live with this irrigation system.

Good idea, I'll try that.

I don't understand why a smart controller would be designed to "not forget unfinished watering cycles" but NOT be designed to tell you that these unfinished cycles actually finished.

There are several zones that have been scheduled multiple times, always cut off by the watering window end time, and when looking at "events by zone" they show the scheduled dates/times but not the "done" dates/times, the way the cycles that actually finished on the scheduled days show up on the controller.

bcg
06-19-2012, 10:42 PM
The times don't "make sense" because the controller did cycle and soak for the run times. It started at 2:30 but only ran each zone until the infiltration rate for the soil type you set had been met and then let it soak for a while. That's why you're seeing completion times so close together, the zones only had a few minutes left on the total watering time required.

You're best bet with this controller is to give it as much freedom as possible. I'd suggest setting a larger watering window, I typically set mine from midnight to 6:00AM, you might even stretch that to 10:00PM to 6:00AM. It needs time for the soak portion of the cycles so a larger watering window will allow more of your zones to finish. Even with a 6 hour window and only 5 zones, mine doesn't always finish because of my clay soil. With a .18"/hr infiltration rate, it takes a lot of soak time to put down 1" of water.

camner
06-19-2012, 11:17 PM
The times don't "make sense" because the controller did cycle and soak for the run times. It started at 2:30 but only ran each zone until the infiltration rate for the soil type you set had been met and then let it soak for a while. That's why you're seeing completion times so close together, the zones only had a few minutes left on the total watering time required.

You're best bet with this controller is to give it as much freedom as possible. I'd suggest setting a larger watering window, I typically set mine from midnight to 6:00AM, you might even stretch that to 10:00PM to 6:00AM. It needs time for the soak portion of the cycles so a larger watering window will allow more of your zones to finish. Even with a 6 hour window and only 5 zones, mine doesn't always finish because of my clay soil. With a .18"/hr infiltration rate, it takes a lot of soak time to put down 1" of water.

Makes sense (lots of it!)...thanks.

But why doesn't the controller indicate that the unfinished zones have finished later (the next watering window)?

bcg
06-20-2012, 12:10 AM
It may be that there was enough water applied to get above the MAD so it's just not running them again until you pass the MAD point again, but I'm just guessing as I don't really know the answer to that. That would be a good question for your RB rep.

Kiril
06-20-2012, 12:41 AM
Don't set a water window, problem solved.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 01:35 AM
Don't set a water window, problem solved.

You can't not set a water window. You have to give it a start and a stop time for the window.... Refer to page 16 in the owners manual.

Kiril
06-20-2012, 01:44 AM
You can't not set a water window. You have to give it a start and a stop time for the window.... Refer to page 16 in the owners manual.

12:00 am - 11:59 pm ..... watering allowed at all times .... i.e. no water window. Didn't think I would need to spell it out for you of all people ..... REP :laugh:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 01:52 AM
12:00 am - 11:59 pm ..... watering allowed at all times .... i.e. no water window. Didn't think I would need to spell it out for you of all people ..... rep. :laugh:

Yeah but then you have no control as to what times the thing will be irrigating at. As I am sure that you know Kiril you can't irrigate during daylight hours in most cities. If you give it a window of 9:00PM to 6:00AM you're in much better shape. I thought that an irrigation scheduling whiz like you would be on top of that :)

Kiril
06-20-2012, 02:03 AM
Yeah but then you have no control as to what times the thing will be irrigating at. As I am sure that you know Kiril you can't irrigate during daylight hours in most cities. If you give it a window of 9:00PM to 6:00AM you're in much better shape. I thought that an irrigation scheduling whiz like you would be on top of that :)

"Most" cities? Not in these parts, at least not in "most" cities. Of course with all the water thieving going on by our SoCal brothers, some cities do occasionally see water restrictions, however most of the water restrictions that I have seen are water only on a given day of the week, which is f'n stoopid IMO.

Doesn't change the fact you can effectively have no restrictions on run times. But then I would have figured a RB REP would have know that. :waving:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 02:11 AM
"Most" cities? Not in these parts, at least not in "most" cities. Of course with all the water thieving going on by our SoCal brothers, some cities do occasionally see water restrictions, however most of the water restrictions that I have seen are water only on a given day of the week, which is f'n stoopid IMO.

Doesn't change the fact you can effectively have no restrictions on run times. But then I would have figured a RB REP would have know that. :waving:

Well I don't know how they do things up there in Stockton or wherever you are dude but down here in Los Angeles, San Bernardino and Orange counties just about all of the local city governments have watering restrictions that don't allow for watering past 8:00 am unless there is somebody there on site running the water to service the system. A vast majority of the local city governments actually enforce the restrictions too. I know you find that hard to believe since we're stealing all of your water but it's true. I know people that have been fined for irrigating in the middle of the day. But since you ARE the all knowing then I guess whatever you say, vs what I actually know to be true, is correct!

P.S. The whole calling me a RB Rep thing is just old and lame now.... but if you want to continue to look stupid then have at it my friend :)

Kiril
06-20-2012, 02:40 AM
OK Dan, SoCal represents the entire country. Now that we have established that, what does all of this have to do with the OP's problem? His problem is too small a window. Remove the "window", problem solved.

And the REP thing .... it is what it is. You talk like a REP when it comes to RB. Stop, and I will stop calling you a REP.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 02:50 AM
Fine...... Set the window for all day.... Who cares if the system irrigates until 10:00 am. Good plan. Real professional. Glad you're here to tell us all how it's done Kiril!

Kiril
06-20-2012, 02:56 AM
Fine...... Set the window for all day.... Who cares if the system irrigates until 10:00 am. Good plan. Real professional. Glad you're here to tell us all how it's done Kiril!

Without knowing the site requirements Dan, you are pissing in the wind here. You have no idea how long his zones need to run, or how he has set the controller up. Furthermore, some sites will simply need to be watered outside "optimal" times ... certainly a big boy like yourself understands that. And finally, I have zero problems watering until 9:00 AM, or even 10 AM (or later in some cases, for example SDI). The evaporative losses at those hours are minimal. Feel free to check your CIMIS data to verify.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 03:00 AM
Yep.... You sure are right on..... I'm so glad that you're here to educate us Kiril...

Kiril
06-20-2012, 03:10 AM
Yep.... You sure are right on..... I'm so glad that you're here to educate us Kiril...

Happy to help you understand how to set a "no water window" on a SMT. :waving:

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-20-2012, 10:30 AM
You need a water window for most places in Texas. Plus a water window is just being smart about optimal watering. I do agree it needs to be expanded. 3 hours seems very short. If so cal is a RB rep then I fit that definition as well. Along with being a rep for several other things.

As for CA water flows to money and power. Whining about that doesn't change things one iota. My guess is most of CA tax revenue comes from S. CA. Not sure I've heard whining about that.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 10:38 AM
Without knowing the site requirements Dan, you are pissing in the wind here. You have no idea how long his zones need to run, or how he has set the controller up. Furthermore, some sites will simply need to be watered outside "optimal" times ... certainly a big boy like yourself understands that. And finally, I have zero problems watering until 9:00 AM, or even 10 AM (or later in some cases, for example SDI). The evaporative losses at those hours are minimal. Feel free to check your CIMIS data to verify.

One could easily argue that without knowing the site requirements and local governmental regulations that you too are pissing in the wind with your recommendation of a 24 hour water window. Just because YOU think it's ok to have a 24 hour water window doesn't mean that it's recommended or even allowed for the original posters situation.

Wet_Boots
06-20-2012, 10:55 AM
the controller would work better with a pigtail installed on it :)

Kiril
06-20-2012, 11:30 AM
One could easily argue that without knowing the site requirements and local governmental regulations that you too are pissing in the wind with your recommendation of a 24 hour water window. Just because YOU think it's ok to have a 24 hour water window doesn't mean that it's recommended or even allowed for the original posters situation.

Don't mistake a suggestion to resolve a problem with a BMP recommendation Dan. :nono:

I don't make recommendations based on no data. Perhaps you do, but I do not.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-20-2012, 11:50 AM
the controller would work better with a pigtail installed on it :)

Merrily merrily merrily life upon a stream

Kiril
06-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Just for shiits and grins Dan, try to find the water restrictions for the OP's city.

http://ccr.cityofup.com/Lists/Ordinances/AllItems.aspx

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 12:24 PM
Just for shiits and grins Dan, try to find the water restrictions for the OP's city.

http://ccr.cityofup.com/Lists/Ordinances/AllItems.aspx
Dude! You don't get it... You lost. You made a stupid suggestion that I certainly would not expect to hear from any professional let alone you. Admit that you were wrong and move on!
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
06-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Dude! You don't get it... You lost. You made a stupid suggestion that I certainly would not expect to hear from any professional let alone you. Admit that you were wrong and move on!


Really Dan? Did you bother to add up the guys posted run times? I did. FYI, they total 4.82 hours over 7 zones. Do you think he might be able to get that done between 12 AM and 9 or 10 AM?

Further .....

Don't set a water window, problem solved.

You can't not set a water window. You have to give it a start and a stop time for the window.... Refer to page 16 in the owners manual.

12:00 am - 11:59 pm ..... watering allowed at all times .... i.e. no water window.

So what were you saying Dan? Seems to me the person who can't let it go is you buddy, because you didn't know how to set up the controller to effectively have no water window, and that really chaps your ass, especially since I am the one who pointed it out. This is clearly evident in your following posts.

Have a nice day Dan.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 01:01 PM
Whatever, Mr 24 Hour Water Window!
Posted via Mobile Device

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-20-2012, 01:07 PM
And by the way, I know you're from that part of the state, but there is nothing that you would ever do to "chap my ass". I just don't swing that way. It's cool if you do... I mean If that's your thing and all.... :)
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
06-20-2012, 01:12 PM
had a hunch, click and see what the other pros think.


http://www.sprinklertalk.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=5095

Wet_Boots
06-20-2012, 01:31 PM
buncha goofballs over there :rolleyes:

1idejim
06-20-2012, 01:42 PM
buncha goofballs over there :rolleyes:

:laugh::laugh::laugh: