View Full Version : Shopping for Equipment
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 02:41 PM
I recently presented the following document to six dealers in my area. I'm interested in hearing what you guys think of my equipment plan and if you have any suggestions. The local dealers sell Scag, Hustler, Snapper, Ferris and ExMark. One sells John Deere but they were not interested in responding (that's literally what they said.) The same dealers carry Stihl, Echo, RedMax and Shindaiwa.
Pricing Request
I am looking for product recommendations and pricing on the following items. This is for a business plan I have to submit, an actual Request for Quote will come later this summer. Keep in mind that I am just starting out with an equipment budget of 10-13K. Feel free to make more than one recommendation per line item.
Mowers
I have two scenarios with regard to mowers.
The first is a three mower plan with:
a large zero turn mower for larger yard areas and commercial properties
a walk-behind for getting through fence gates, mowing steep grades and as a backup
and a commercial grade or semi-commercial grade trim mower
The second mower scenario is a two mower plan with:
a mid-size zero turn mower
and a commercial grade self-propelled trim mower with a wider cut
Gas Powered Hand Helds
Trimmer
Edger
Blower (backpack)
Blower (handheld)
Hedge Trimmer
macgyver_GA
06-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Um...to be honest it's a little vague. Not very specific. It's kinda like walking into a grocery store and telling them you want to buy some food. There's a whole range of pieces of equipment both brands and models which are sometimes 6 of one half dozen of the other. Within models, there can be different engine levels, and extra features.
Do you want hydro or belt drive walk behinds?
What type of mowing will you be doing? Side discharge, mulch, bag?
What types of properties are you mowing? What types of grass?
Do you really want or need a ZTR or will walk behinds with sulkies suffice?
For your handhelds...Are you looking for something with a lot of power to cut heavy growth, or just weekly light trimming of grass? Curved shaft or straight shaft edger?
What MPH & CFM blower are you looking for? CC's?
Hedge trimmers...Fixed or articulating? 24'" or more?
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 03:25 PM
I forgot to mention that I had visited each of these dealers the week before and discussed my situation with them. But I do not want to tell them exactly what I want. I don't want to establish a relationship with some dealer who just wants me to give them a model number and plop some cash on the counter. These are all local dealers selling in the market area where I will be working. They know what their other customers buy and why. I expect them to make recommendations. They know my total budget, they know what the trade-offs are at each price level. They should be able to deliver a "preliminary" quote and we can work from there. If they can't they don't know they're product, their market and they don't know how to sell. I hear what you are saying, but I intended for it to be somewhat of an open functional description (you call it vague). I'm shopping for a vendor as well as a set of machines. Some have responded well, others not so well.
32vld
06-20-2012, 03:43 PM
Never tell how much you want to spend. Then they try to sell you more mower then you need so the get every cent you have or try and sell you the mower they sell normally for $9,000 to everyone else but for $10,000 to you.
Also aren't you mowing lawns now?
What type of mowers and equipment do you have?
You would save money by just buying a back pack blower. And hand helds have no power.
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Do you want hydro or belt drive walk behinds?
I expect the dealer to recommend whichever they wish, one of each if they like. I also expect them to explain the pros and cons of their recommendations.
What type of mowing will you be doing? Side discharge, mulch, bag?
That's a decision the customer should make. But if they don't I believe most local LCO's mulch. I have no customers at this point so I have to be prepared for the widest amount of contingencies. The dealer should know this.
What types of properties are you mowing? What types of grass?
Again, the dealer should know the area. But around here St.Augustine is prevalent. Upscale I see the local sod vendor pushes Zoysia.
Do you really want or need a ZTR or will walk behinds with sulkies suffice?
If I knew I was only going to be doing small to medium size residential then maybe I could get by with just the latter. But I will be a solo operator and I might fall on a nice large commercial job if I am lucky and I want to be ready. And before you suggest that I wait until that scenario occurs, let me say that someone else is paying for all this and its a one time deal. I can have it handed to me now or struggle to pay for it later.
For your handhelds...Are you looking for something with a lot of power to cut heavy growth, or just weekly light trimming of grass?
Probably the latter, as I will be focusing on residential and small commercial at first.
Curved shaft or straight shaft edger?
Straight, unless someone can make a strong recommendation for curved.
What MPH & CFM blower are you looking for? CC's?
Medium Medium
Or whatever someone recommends!
Hedge trimmers...Fixed or articulating? 24'" or more?
What would you get if you were only getting one and it was your first?
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Never tell how much you want to spend.
Normally I wouldn't but I do have a budget and I don't want to spend a lot of time going back and forth on price. Already one vendors initial quote included sixteen thousand dollars in mowers alone for scenario one. I gave him a break and went back and gave him a second chance. Also, they all know I am giving the same request sheet to every other dealer in town so they know they can't go crazy.
Also aren't you mowing lawns now?
No, just working on a business plan. It will happen, but probably later this summer.
What type of mowers and equipment do you have?
zilch!
You would save money by just buying a back pack blower. And hand helds have no power.
I have never used a back pack blower. I am wondering how much of a hassle it is to put one on just for a short sidewalk or driveway. Thought I would just get one of each.
macgyver_GA
06-20-2012, 04:26 PM
Normally I wouldn't but I do have a budget and I don't want to spend a lot of time going back and forth on price. Already one vendors initial quote included sixteen thousand dollars in mowers alone for scenario one. I gave him a break and went back and gave him a second chance. Also, they all know I am giving the same request sheet to every other dealer in town so they know they can't go crazy.
No, just working on a business plan. It will happen, but probably later this summer.
zilch!
I have never used a back pack blower. I am wondering how much of a hassle it is to put one on just for a short sidewalk or driveway. Thought I would just get one of each.
Backpack blowers are not a hassle at all. I started out with a handheld and when it died I bought a backpack and never looked back. No more arm fatigue carrying a heavy blower and getting vibrated to death.
Glenn Lawn Care
06-20-2012, 04:41 PM
I'd used a 21" mower if your are just starting out. Buy yourself a good blower, trimmer and edger. I'd spend the money to advertise and when you get enough work then upgrade to commercial equipment.
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 04:49 PM
I'd used a 21" mower if your are just starting out. Buy yourself a good blower, trimmer and edger. I'd spend the money to advertise and when you get enough work then upgrade to commercial equipment.
I'm not paying for the equipment, someone else is. And its a one time deal. Either I let someone else pay for it now or I struggle to pay for it myself later. When someone is giving you money to start a business its not the same as spending your own savings to start a business. The calculations are different when you have an angel. If it were my money I would be shopping for used equipment from one of the short term guys who decided to get out. But I am required to buy new equipment. Those are the terms - spend it now and buy new stuff.
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Backpack blowers are not a hassle at all. I started out with a handheld and when it died I bought a backpack and never looked back. No more arm fatigue carrying a heavy blower and getting vibrated to death.
I guess I should go down to one of the dealers and put one on. Blow some dust around the parking lot.
Its refreshing to see someone working on a business plan! Nice job! When I first started way back when I literally went to all the local dealers and asked what can you do for me as a LCO? I also let them know what I would do for them. A good working relationship with a dealer is a must.
Some dealer musts are a loaner mower, fast service turn around and parts in stock or a day away.
Posted via Mobile Device
OldMan56
06-20-2012, 06:34 PM
Its refreshing to see someone working on a business plan! Nice job! When I first started way back when I literally went to all the local dealers and asked what can you do for me as a LCO? I also let them know what I would do for them. A good working relationship with a dealer is a must.
Some dealer musts are a loaner mower, fast service turn around and parts in stock or a day away.
Posted via Mobile Device
I haven't discussed loaners, but one dealer told me if I ever break down in the middle of a job my mower would go right to the head of the line (behind any other customers in the same situation of course.) They said if I called from the job site they would start wrapping up whatever they were doing in the back so they could get right on my problem as soon as I rolled in. Right now for that attitude and other factors they are the leading contender for my business.
32vld
06-21-2012, 09:54 AM
Do you live in a house?
Then you have to have stuff to take care of your own property. What stuff do you have?
I would go with the back pack blower alone.
Use the money for a hand held towards a gas powered hedge trimmer.
I have a 20" push and a JD LT180 42" mowers. Because they are what I already owned.
If you already have a 20" use it you won't use it much and it will last a long time. 20" good for tight spots and does a better job then a line trimmer on those areas and you'll use less line and save wear and tear on the trimmer.
I would get a 34"(something that you know will fit through 36" gates. Beats pushing, faster then using a 20", and will knock out whatever a big mower can't get to.
Many people are putting in 4' and 5' gates. Problem is a 48" won't go through a 4' gate nor will a 60" pass through a 5' gate. Then if you add a bagging system the mower is now even wider.
Now that you are thinking about gates some property's that I do a 34" would knock out their small back yards.
A 48" would fit most every where for me.
Thing is I have more time then hours of work. So no need for me to up grade size of my mowers. If I did I would get a 60" because it would be so much faster then a 48"
I would buy a 34" WB for where my large mower would not fit.
I would replace my 42" deck with a 48" deck and keep it as a back up and the odd place where the 60" can't fit.
LandFakers
06-21-2012, 10:33 AM
I think its a good business plan, and getting reccomendations is a good idea, but do YOU have any preferrance on what to buy? Demo Demo Demo
OldMan56
06-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Do you live in a house?
Then you have to have stuff to take care of your own property. What stuff do you have?
I know you mean well and thanks for your concern. :) But as I have said in an earlier post someone else is paying for all this stuff. Saving money by using what I already have is not part of the equation. And for the record I live in someone else's house and using their equipment is not an option.
I would go with the back pack blower alone.
Use the money for a hand held towards a gas powered hedge trimmer.
I had already planned to get both and the hedge trimmer. I might get just the back pack and use the savings for something else.
I would get a 34"(something that you know will fit through 36" gates. Beats pushing, faster then using a 20", and will knock out whatever a big mower can't get to.
I have only measured one gate so far, that is the one at my Mom's house. It is a 38" gate but the clearance is actually 41" when the gate is fully opened (the extra width is the gap between the gate and gatepost.) That is why I was thinking of going with a 36" walk behind that is 38" with the chute up. A fellow I talked to the other day suggested I go see one of the fence companies in the area and ask them what is most typical. He said I should also ask them what they charge to replace a smaller gate with a larger one. I could offer to mow the fenced area with my 21" if the 36" wouldn't fit, but also suggest to the customer they look into a bigger gate, informing them of the cost and how much they would save over time - seeing as I would charge them more for the backyard.
32vld
06-21-2012, 04:52 PM
I have only measured one gate so far, that is the one at my Mom's house. It is a 38" gate but the clearance is actually 41" when the gate is fully opened (the extra width is the gap between the gate and gatepost.) That is why I was thinking of going with a 36" walk behind that is 38" with the chute up. A fellow I talked to the other day suggested I go see one of the fence companies in the area and ask them what is most typical. He said I should also ask them what they charge to replace a smaller gate with a larger one. I could offer to mow the fenced area with my 21" if the 36" wouldn't fit, but also suggest to the customer they look into a bigger gate, informing them of the cost and how much they would save over time - seeing as I would charge them more for the backyard.
I have seen gates effective opening to be less then the gate size just because the gate can't swing open far enough or gate design. I know of a 48" gate that will only open to 42".
Also have seen gate's that there is next to no gap between the fence posts and the gate so there is no extra space.
Also have seen 36" gates act as if they were 34" gates because the latches and or hinges intrude into the gate opening too much.
LandFakers
06-21-2012, 06:29 PM
What he said ^^^ All gates are different. My 36 doesnt fit into a couple of 36" gates I run into
Darryl G
06-21-2012, 08:56 PM
I'd just start with a 36 or 48 inch hydro walk behind with a sulky, a 21 incher and a set of handhelds. Skip the rider for now. Should be able to that for $6,000 to $8,000 and set the rest aside for operating expenses, advertising and office equipment.
KS_Grasscutter
06-21-2012, 09:51 PM
Yea, its gonna take a lot of advertising to make it profitable. That's something most of us (myself included) either cheap out on or skip completely. It will come back and bite u in the ass. I would set aside $5k for advertising and other startup expenses. You will also need a bunch of shop tools. Blade grinder. Air compressor. Impact wrench. Socket set. Screwdrivers. Wrenches. Floor jack. Mower jack (for blades, much better and safer then a floor jack). Don't forget a truck and trailer. Not to mention DOT compliance stuff- if I was starting over I'd hire a safety compliance company to do it for me, lot less stress and hassle that way. So yea, there are a LOT of "behind the scenes" startup costs.
Posted via Mobile Device
OldMan56
06-21-2012, 10:29 PM
I have other funds budgeted for a trailer, truck (actually debating whether to fix up existing truck or buy another used truck), insurance, licenses and whatnot. The 13K is just for equipment. But after what I've seen on this thread and others I may increase my budget for advertising. That increase may have to force me to reduce my equipment budget. But I'm in this for the long haul so I don't want to take on too many accounts too early and have the whole thing turn into a train wreck. But anyway, with this thread I'm mostly interested in ideas regarding equipment. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
0