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View Full Version : expert plan check please


ihateclay
06-28-2012, 10:54 PM
I've been lurking for years trying to pick-up knowledge and now I ask for help in pointing out potential problems with a renovation. First off this is all volunteer work for my church that bought an empty lot behind our property and built on a couple of acres leaving 8 more. After several years of neglect and desert scrub trying to take over we came up with money to renovate 7 acres with 3.5 turf, 1.5 landscaped, 2 water retention / drainage and 1 acre of turf not to be disturbed. After the mass x work we ended up with the 1 acre of turf getting 18" of dirt placed on it. Not wishing to have rotors sitting on 2 to 3 foot risers, I figure this is a good time to renovate. Before I get blasted about being cheap, again volunteer work, non-profit and this will go to our landscape contractor if we don't go over budget on the many dollars already being spent. This is the plan B if the money is all gone and trying to avoid throwing gravel on it.

The first was the original condition and the second is the proposed. The curved red line represents a newly installed sidewalk. The corner area is a seperate memorial garden project that is breaking ground soon. All of the area to the east of the sidewalk is the area that took the 18" of dirt. My concerns are pipe sizing. Static psi 65 on a hose bib and rotor psi on existing line of #5 and #7 at 40. Any pointers would be a big help.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78869515/current%20layout.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78869515/plan2.jpg

CAPT Stream Rotar
06-28-2012, 11:52 PM
Thats a lot of grass..

is your church rich?

White Gardens
06-28-2012, 11:58 PM
Thats a lot of grass..

is your church rich?

Churches are all business now, we've got a few around here now that dwarf that one in comparison.

Too bad that money couldn't go towards something, like say a soup kitchen for the homeless...... But I digress.

....

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-28-2012, 11:59 PM
Do you have a remote?
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
06-29-2012, 12:22 AM
Do you have a remote?
Posted via Mobile Device

ymFc_7LAat8

ihateclay
06-29-2012, 02:03 AM
Thats a lot of grass..

is your church rich?

No, not rich and thus the constant problem of trying to make every dollar count.

ihateclay
06-29-2012, 02:17 AM
Churches are all business now, we've got a few around here now that dwarf that one in comparison.

Too bad that money couldn't go towards something, like say a soup kitchen for the homeless...... But I digress.

....

Good point. I'd like to think that we are very active in that reqard. The purpose here is to provide some much needed park area to the community for sports, scouts (we sponsor many troops) and a field area for our pre-school.

ihateclay
06-29-2012, 02:29 AM
Do you have a remote?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes. It is the Hunter Roam that matches up with the ICC unit. It's not bad, a little limited in range and thanks to the genius who mounted the controller on the north side of the building, limited even more. I'm working on making a mount I can stand up on a piece of PVC to help get over the building. Sure beats paying my son to sit there and push buttons, when he could be digging!

1idejim
06-29-2012, 10:08 AM
Yes. It is the Hunter Roam that matches up with the ICC unit. It's not bad, a little limited in range and thanks to the genius who mounted the controller on the north side of the building, limited even more. I'm working on making a mount I can stand up on a piece of PVC to help get over the building. Sure beats paying my son to sit there and push buttons, when he could be digging!

you get what you pay for, don't be too critical when the labor is free.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-29-2012, 11:37 AM
I'd start by upgrading the remote situation. Trying to make a roam effective will just create a cluster****.

Wet_Boots
06-29-2012, 11:51 AM
It is very easy to make one of those limited Hunter remotes effective, on a temporary basis, by running wires to a connector within 'reach' of the zones, and keeping the sensor wire disconnected, unless you're working on the system.

Kiril
06-29-2012, 12:18 PM
I've been lurking for years trying to pick-up knowledge and now I ask for help in pointing out potential problems with a renovation. First off this is all volunteer work for my church that bought an empty lot behind our property and built on a couple of acres leaving 8 more. After several years of neglect and desert scrub trying to take over we came up with money to renovate 7 acres with 3.5 turf, 1.5 landscaped, 2 water retention / drainage and 1 acre of turf not to be disturbed. After the mass x work we ended up with the 1 acre of turf getting 18" of dirt placed on it. Not wishing to have rotors sitting on 2 to 3 foot risers, I figure this is a good time to renovate. Before I get blasted about being cheap, again volunteer work, non-profit and this will go to our landscape contractor if we don't go over budget on the many dollars already being spent. This is the plan B if the money is all gone and trying to avoid throwing gravel on it.

The first was the original condition and the second is the proposed. The curved red line represents a newly installed sidewalk. The corner area is a seperate memorial garden project that is breaking ground soon. All of the area to the east of the sidewalk is the area that took the 18" of dirt. My concerns are pipe sizing. Static psi 65 on a hose bib and rotor psi on existing line of #5 and #7 at 40. Any pointers would be a big help.

Start by getting the required information you actually need to design the system, then put together a real design. Until that is done, any further discussion here is pointless.

Mike Leary
06-29-2012, 01:05 PM
Start by getting the required information you actually need to design the system, then put together a real design. Until that is done, any further discussion here is pointless.

What he said.

irrig8r
06-29-2012, 02:06 PM
Don't shortchange the ROAM. My handheld transmitter got soaked yesterday when I was installing and adjusting MP Rotators and the display was wonky and it didn't transmit.

Hunter tech support guy was convinced it didnt come apart for servicing, but since I figured I might have to replace it anyway, so I managed to gently pry the two halves apart, shook out some water and let it dry in the back of the truck in the sun. 1/2 hr laterit worked good as new again. Thinking of putting it in a ziplock bag next time I'm doing a nozzle upgrade and flushing heads...

Not as instant on and off as my Pro Max, but does the job.o
Posted via Mobile Device

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-29-2012, 04:31 PM
It is very easy to make one of those limited Hunter remotes effective, on a temporary basis, by running wires to a connector within 'reach' of the zones, and keeping the sensor wire disconnected, unless you're working on the system.
That is another way of saying "build this cluster€£¥[."
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
06-29-2012, 04:33 PM
That is another way of saying "build this cluster€£¥[."
Posted via Mobile DeviceJust something I discovered by way of experimenting, lo those many years ago.

Mike Leary
06-29-2012, 05:49 PM
Just something I discovered by way of experimenting, lo those many years ago.

Was that before or after the lobotomy? :p

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-29-2012, 05:52 PM
Just something I discovered by way of experimenting, lo those many years ago.

While you were doing that I discovered a decent remote.
Posted via Mobile Device

ihateclay
06-29-2012, 07:33 PM
Start by getting the required information you actually need to design the system, then put together a real design. Until that is done, any further discussion here is pointless.

O.K. I'll play. What is the reqired information that is needed to start a design?
Are we talking pressure and flow at POC? Is there anything else? I'll not ask anymore specific questions on my design but could someone share what questions I should ask any potential bidder? I want to learn so I know when to walk away when talking to an "expert".

Example: The company who did some re-working 6 years ago did some interesting work in my opinion. Look at #19 on the first pic, 9 Falcons flowing thru 1 1/2" lateral? Would that explain the donuts in the grass? #7 had 8 total rotors, Falcons mixed with I-20s. #21 had small rotors mixed with sprays.

Mike Leary
06-29-2012, 08:16 PM
O.K. I'll play. What is the reqired information that is needed to start a design?
Are we talking pressure and flow at POC? Is there anything else? I'll not ask anymore specific questions on my design but could someone share what questions I should ask any potential bidder? I want to learn so I know when to walk away when talking to an "expert".

Example: The company who did some re-working 6 years ago did some interesting work in my opinion. Look at #19 on the first pic, 9 Falcons flowing thru 1 1/2" lateral? Would that explain the donuts in the grass? #7 had 8 total rotors, Falcons mixed with I-20s. #21 had small rotors mixed with sprays.

Facons eat water, they're made to do that, and they're a good head. The biggest problem I've seen with them are the lack of accurate "at the head" pressure and GPM available after friction loss calculations. I re-built a failed Falcon system a couple of years ago that had done exactly what you describe. Besides the crummy design, the "experts" had replaced the nozzles with larger nozzles THINKING it would help; it made it worse.
I'd be doing a pressure/gpm test first and then inspecting each head for the nozzle/radius/gpm psi requirement. If it don't add up, hope there's some spare wire around.

ihateclay
06-29-2012, 08:53 PM
Facons eat water, they're made to do that, and they're a good head. The biggest problem I've seen with them are the lack of accurate "at the head" pressure and GPM available after friction loss calculations. I re-built a failed Falcon system a couple of years ago that had done exactly what you describe. Besides the crummy design, the "experts" had replaced the nozzles with larger nozzles THINKING it would help; it made it worse.
I'd be doing a pressure/gpm test first and then inspecting each head for the nozzle/radius/gpm psi requirement. If it don't add up, hope there's some spare wire around.

Do you mean that the pressure reading is not the actual pressure at the head? I was measuring some heads yesterday and only getting between 30 and 43 psi. This got me worried that I had bigger problems.

My head choices have centered around RB Falcons or 8005 and I-40 Ultras, which is what is being installed on the new area. We are heavy with clay here in PHX and not much sand, except what I try to topdress. Are the SS models worth the extra money? There are quite a few of the older Falcons still spraying away and I just replace them because of their worn wiper seals.

Mike Leary
06-29-2012, 09:03 PM
Do you mean that the pressure reading is not the actual pressure at the head? I was measuring some heads yesterday and only getting between 30 and 43 psi. This got me worried that I had bigger problems.

My head choices have centered around RB Falcons or 8005 and I-40 Ultras, which is what is being installed on the new area. We are heavy with clay here in PHX and not much sand, except what I try to topdress. Are the SS models worth the extra money? There are quite a few of the older Falcons still spraying away and I just replace them because of their worn wiper seals.

That's an I-40 in my avatar, pushing 90 psi AT THE HEAD. Are you starting to get a grip about what it takes to throw big water? I'd bet the wiper seal problem is because of either low-flow and/or no cleaning around the head every year to prevent debris ingress. Not to mention a piss-poor design/install. :hammerhead: Yes, stainless rules.

Kiril
06-30-2012, 10:33 AM
Do you mean that the pressure reading is not the actual pressure at the head? I was measuring some heads yesterday and only getting between 30 and 43 psi. This got me worried that I had bigger problems.

Ya think? At a nozzle pressure of 40 PSI +/- 5 PSI you would need a #14 or #16 nozzle to get your head to head for a 6504 falcon. So let's say an average of 12 GPM per rotor, 5 rotors per valve ... which is 60 GPM ..... through a 1.5 inch SCH40 (assumed) lateral. :nono:

ihateclay
06-30-2012, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the input, this really helps. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to pass this on to the contractors doing the other 5 acres. They are trenching next week! At minimum I think we can swing for a professional design with some volunteer grunt work.

One more question: Do you guys install these size of rotors on swing joints or are straight risers O.K?

S.O.Contracting
06-30-2012, 09:55 PM
Swing joints. Every head on swing joints. Always.