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Outlawn
07-01-2012, 01:53 AM
Someone school me. Does the 10% ethanol that is in gasoline now affect the rubber components (I.e. fuel lines, diaphragms, seals) that bad? Does it dry them out and make them crack or what? Also, I know it gets phase separation, but is this after a week of sitting, a month, 3 months?

We had 1 place left in town that did not have ethanol in their fuel, but I havent been by there in a while. I heard that its a federal mandate for gasoline to have ethanol in it now. Is this correct?
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newz7151
07-01-2012, 01:59 AM
Someone school me. Does the 10% ethanol that is in gasoline now affect the rubber components (I.e. fuel lines, diaphragms, seals) that bad? Does it dry them out and make them crack or what? Also, I know it gets phase separation, but is this after a week of sitting, a month, 3 months?

We had 1 place left in town that did not have ethanol in their fuel, but I havent been by there in a while. I heard that its a federal mandate for gasoline to have ethanol in it now. Is this correct?
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Ethanol degrades and pulls the plasticizers in things like diaphragms and the inside of fuel lines, thereby causing them to harden and no longer perform.

http://www.b3cfuel.com/education/the-problem-with-ethanol/

easy-lift guy
07-01-2012, 07:59 AM
Very bad material to have mixed with fuel stocks. This substance has caused untold millions of dollars worth of damaged and destroyed equipment. When ever possible use non-Ethanol fuel supply. Always try and have your fuel tanks on your equipment as empty as possible at the end of your day.
easy-lift guy

LawnMastersTN
07-01-2012, 10:37 AM
Only issue I have had is fuel filters. It is like it melts the plastic and "welds" the inlet shut with plastic. It is not federal mandate that all stations carry ethonal. We have 8+ here that dont have it.

Outlawn
07-01-2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the info, gents. I will have to go check and see if that gas station still has ethanol-free gas.

On a side note, I'm a firefighter and our department buys VP pre-mix 50:1 for our K-12 saws, chain saws, and handheld groundskeeping equipment. This is due in-part, I believe, to the VP fuel being ethanol free. Not to mention it's premix, so it's basically firefighter proof :laugh:

LawnMastersTN
07-01-2012, 11:33 AM
Thanks for the info, gents. I will have to go check and see if that gas station still has ethanol-free gas.

On a side note, I'm a firefighter and our department buys VP pre-mix 50:1 for our K-12 saws, chain saws, and handheld groundskeeping equipment. This is due in-part, I believe, to the VP fuel being ethanol free. Not to mention it's premix, so it's basically firefighter proof :laugh:

Hey now I'm a fire fighter/paramedic. We mix our own fuel right at the station house.

easy-lift guy
07-01-2012, 12:30 PM
If there are any marinas near you they would have Ethanol free gas available. They will charge more fr it perhaps but it is worth it.
easy-lift guy

cgaengineer
07-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Hey now I'm a fire fighter/paramedic. We mix our own fuel right at the station house.

Never made sense to me why they woudl sell 2 qts of premix fuel fuel for $8 but when I ran I to a FF buddy the light came on...it stores easier, longer and eliminates mistakes in mixing. From a liability standpoint it makes a lot of sense.
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newz7151
07-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the info, gents. I will have to go check and see if that gas station still has ethanol-free gas.

On a side note, I'm a firefighter and our department buys VP pre-mix 50:1 for our K-12 saws, chain saws, and handheld groundskeeping equipment. This is due in-part, I believe, to the VP fuel being ethanol free. Not to mention it's premix, so it's basically firefighter proof :laugh:

Those saws have to be depended on at a moments notice, there is no time to be sitting around trying to get them repaired/kitted or standing there trying to crank it, you need it to crank within 3 pulls and get to your rescue. Pre-Mix has a reported in product shelf life of as much as 2 years stable. It's also important to remember to keep your gas out of the sun as much as possible, as it will breakdown/decay faster.

LawnMastersTN
07-02-2012, 08:41 AM
Never made sense to me why they woudl sell 2 qts of premix fuel fuel for $8 but when I ran I to a FF buddy the light came on...it stores easier, longer and eliminates mistakes in mixing. From a liability standpoint it makes a lot of sense.
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We get the little bottles of stihl oil and make one gallon. We never have to worry about shelf life as we start everything every shift and use them at least every two weeks for something. Plus everything that we have other than our positive pressure fans are 2 stroke so we use alot.

rlitman
07-02-2012, 11:39 AM
Those saws have to be depended on at a moments notice, there is no time to be sitting around trying to get them repaired/kitted or standing there trying to crank it, you need it to crank within 3 pulls and get to your rescue. Pre-Mix has a reported in product shelf life of as much as 2 years stable. It's also important to remember to keep your gas out of the sun as much as possible, as it will breakdown/decay faster.

They need to be depended on at a moments notice, AND sit idle for weeks at a time. The pre-mix cans are crazy expensive, but so are carbide chainsaw chains, and both of these are really suited for these specialized uses.
In these uses, they're well worth every penny.

Even Stihl doesn't recommend that lawn care professionals run their machines on their moto-mix all the time. They just say to empty the tank and use a shot of it to keep it over the winter.

newz7151
07-03-2012, 02:04 AM
We get the little bottles of stihl oil and make one gallon. We never have to worry about shelf life as we start everything every shift and use them at least every two weeks for something. Plus everything that we have other than our positive pressure fans are 2 stroke so we use alot.

Problem is, just starting them and running them for a few minutes doesn't really help all that much unless you are using ethanol free fuel to begin with or are using something like Ethanol Shield in your gas to protect everything. For those of you who are "doubting thomases", get you a gallon of 89 octane gas from a pump that displays that "may contain up to 10% ethanol" sticker. Get you two GLASS jars with a capacity of at least 1/2 gallon (really you could just use quart jars).
Go to your local dealer carrying the B3C products, or even Home Depot or your local Wal-Mart (your dealer will have larger sizes, Home Depot and Wal-Mart should only have it in the 2 oz bottles) and get you a bottle of the B3C Ethanol Shield.
Next, take your two jars and your gas. Fill both jars with the gas. In one jar, add the measured amount of Ethanol Shield. In the other, leave it plain. Now, measure out and add to each jar the correct ratio of whatever brand 2 cycle oil you are using, but make sure you are controlling your experiment here by using exactly the same amounts of gas and 2 cycle oil in the two jars.
So, what you should now have would be two jars with the same amount of gas and 2 cycle oil in each jar, one with Ethanol Shield added, and one without. Cap each jar and give a shake to get things agitated together. Let sit for 5 minutes and then view the results yourself. (ideally you would want to have an alcohol tester available to measure out how much ethanol is actually in your gas sample)

An even better visual of what your 2 cycle oil is (or rather isn't doing) in today's ethanol infused fuel can be seen if those of you that have E85 (85% ethanol/15% gas) available to you will use E85 for this experiment.

The results will be shocking to you when you see for yourself what is going on with the fuel and oil mix you are using in your 2 cycle stuff if you are not stabilizing the mixture with something like Ethanol Shield.

LawnMastersTN
07-03-2012, 03:00 AM
Problem is, just starting them and running them for a few minutes doesn't really help all that much unless you are using ethanol free fuel to begin with or are using something like Ethanol Shield in your gas to protect everything. For those of you who are "doubting thomases", get you a gallon of 89 octane gas from a pump that displays that "may contain up to 10% ethanol" sticker. Get you two GLASS jars with a capacity of at least 1/2 gallon (really you could just use quart jars).
Go to your local dealer carrying the B3C products, or even Home Depot or your local Wal-Mart (your dealer will have larger sizes, Home Depot and Wal-Mart should only have it in the 2 oz bottles) and get you a bottle of the B3C Ethanol Shield.
Next, take your two jars and your gas. Fill both jars with the gas. In one jar, add the measured amount of Ethanol Shield. In the other, leave it plain. Now, measure out and add to each jar the correct ratio of whatever brand 2 cycle oil you are using, but make sure you are controlling your experiment here by using exactly the same amounts of gas and 2 cycle oil in the two jars.
So, what you should now have would be two jars with the same amount of gas and 2 cycle oil in each jar, one with Ethanol Shield added, and one without. Cap each jar and give a shake to get things agitated together. Let sit for 5 minutes and then view the results yourself. (ideally you would want to have an alcohol tester available to measure out how much ethanol is actually in your gas sample)

An even better visual of what your 2 cycle oil is (or rather isn't doing) in today's ethanol infused fuel can be seen if those of you that have E85 (85% ethanol/15% gas) available to you will use E85 for this experiment.

The results will be shocking to you when you see for yourself what is going on with the fuel and oil mix you are using in your 2 cycle stuff if you are not stabilizing the mixture with something like Ethanol Shield.

We use all Ethanol free fuel. I do want to do that experiment though just to see. I am always doing things like that just to see what happens.

newz7151
07-03-2012, 04:40 AM
We use all Ethanol free fuel. I do want to do that experiment though just to see. I am always doing things like that just to see what happens.

great if you can get it.. around here you'd have to drive 4 hours or more to find the nearest reported place that has it from that puregas website.

LawnMastersTN
07-03-2012, 10:10 AM
great if you can get it.. around here you'd have to drive 4 hours or more to find the nearest reported place that has it from that puregas website.

That is crazy. I know of 3 that are within 10 miles of me and 3 others that are within 25. I understand the point of it but they aren't considering the effects.
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newz7151
07-03-2012, 11:51 PM
That is crazy. I know of 3 that are within 10 miles of me and 3 others that are within 25. I understand the point of it but they aren't considering the effects.
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when i looked at the site, i think TN has over 350 something stations reported, Texas was showing like, 80 something. Now, Texas has GOT to be bigger than TN, so why are there so many in TN compared to TX?

sccalvert
07-05-2012, 06:45 PM
Anyone know a downside to using 100 octane aircraft fuel in 2-cyle trimmer and other 2-cyle landscaping eq? (mixed with proper ratio oil, of course). thanks.

cgaengineer
07-05-2012, 06:57 PM
Anyone know a downside to using 100 octane aircraft fuel in 2-cyle trimmer and other 2-cyle landscaping eq? (mixed with proper ratio oil, of course). thanks.

It's expensive but pure. Make sure it does not contain lead if you decide to use it in anything with a Cat.
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sccalvert
07-05-2012, 07:30 PM
Does hand held 2-cylce eq have cat converters?

newz7151
07-06-2012, 01:11 AM
Does hand held 2-cylce eq have cat converters?

if it's not "stratified" and newer, more than likely the answer would be yes.

cgaengineer
07-06-2012, 08:12 AM
Does hand held 2-cylce eq have cat converters?

I do not know the answer to this but it looks like the guy above me says some do.
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sccalvert
07-06-2012, 08:50 AM
Thank you.