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View Full Version : Picket line crossing


CAPT Stream Rotar
07-01-2012, 07:03 PM
anyone here ever done it?

would you?
why?

would you not?
why?

lets hear it..

If it was me i would not cross one ever.
bottom line.

greenmonster304
07-01-2012, 07:15 PM
Can you elaborate, what are the circumstances?
Posted via Mobile Device

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-01-2012, 07:18 PM
My buddy landed a huge irrigation fish of an account around me..

prob 10 K a year..

but for the moment he has to cross a line to do it..
he does it.

i think the money aint worth it.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-01-2012, 07:26 PM
I'd cross a picket line in a heartbeat.

easy-lift guy
07-01-2012, 07:27 PM
Which state is this huge irrigation fish of an account out of?
easy-lift guy

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-01-2012, 07:28 PM
tax a chusetts.

easy-lift guy
07-01-2012, 07:32 PM
Yep that says it all right there! Of course I would cross but than again I am from a right to work state where people willing to work don't have to cater to other folks trying to secure a brown body.
easy-lift guy

macgyver_GA
07-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Personally, I have no problem crossing a line. I think picketing the company or industry who pays your paycheck and puts food on your table is stupid. The saying comes to mind, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth." We live in a free country, If you don't like your job, your pay, benefits, or your working conditions, go find another employer. If you still can't get the pay you think you deserve then.. your expectations are too high for the current market value of your skills/services and you should adjust your expectations or go find another skillset or industry. I also think labor unions once had their place in society, however these days I feel they're completely unnecessary and place a heavy burden on employers. Over the years, they've gotten out of hand and way too greedy.

Obviously my opinion has been formed based on my upbringing in the south and not really exposed to labor unions. My girlfriend's father is a former union guy who grew up in Rhode Island and it's interesting the polar opposites of our views on labor unions. My father has dealt with unions working in management of two major snack/food companies the last 30 years. I'm currently dealing with the ridiculous antics of the CWA at my normal 9-5 job and have been for almost a year now. Ugh...don't get me started. Let's just say their picketing cost me a lot of time and headache over the last year.

1idejim
07-01-2012, 07:39 PM
I'd cross a picket line in a heartbeat.

and you would refuse to sell products to union workers also? :rolleyes:

JB1
07-01-2012, 08:40 PM
they were having labor problems and no line up yet, but the company had brought in storm troopers that were pretty intimidating.

macgyver_GA
07-01-2012, 08:42 PM
they were having labor problems and no line up yet, but the company had brought in storm troopers that were pretty intimidating.

With blasters or without? I bet it's hot as crap inside those suits.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-01-2012, 09:32 PM
and you would refuse to sell products to union workers also? :rolleyes:

No I'd sell to them as well. I'm a capitalist not a unionist.

easy-lift guy
07-01-2012, 09:43 PM
No I'd sell to them as well. I'm a capitalist not a unionist.

Good for you.
easy-lift guy

greendoctor
07-01-2012, 09:45 PM
No I'd sell to them as well. I'm a capitalist not a unionist.

Not selling or giving adversarial treatment to groups is exactly the kind of moves making one industry the most hated in America.

Duekster
07-01-2012, 09:52 PM
Lat union line I saw as at the food bank they hit up while on strike at LTV this spring

ihateclay
07-01-2012, 11:58 PM
Sorry I'm not a professional irrigation guy, but my day job requires me to be a union member to keep my job. There are pros and cons and in a perfect world there would be no place for unions but human nature is what it is.

You cross a line and you are a scab. Period. That never goes away.

DanaMac
07-02-2012, 07:50 AM
Depends on the situation, but in most instances, I would cross. Unions today are too strong, too demanding (look at the pro sports unions), and for the most part outdated. By outdated I mean that they no longer look out for the workers safety and fairness, and are now used as leverage to gain everything under the sun as a benefit and make it almost impossible to fire a union worker.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-02-2012, 11:01 AM
I don't have as much of an issue with labor unions in private industries. I can see the need for collective bargaining. What chaps my derrière are public service unions. They are being paid with taxpayer money and use that money to support which ever person will vote them more money or benefits which of course come from the taxpayers.

drfrumpy
07-02-2012, 03:55 PM
I would cross the line, twice.

1idejim
07-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Not selling or giving adversarial treatment to groups is exactly the kind of moves making one industry the most hated in America.

i agree, nobody likes a dentist :)

irritation
07-02-2012, 07:37 PM
nobody likes a dentist :)

I should have been a dentist.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v1-Hn34JR_c/Sxc-dzfEG3I/AAAAAAAAA64/2n3spy32uJY/s320/hermey.jpg

Weekend cut easymoney
07-02-2012, 07:53 PM
and you would refuse to sell products to union workers also? :rolleyes:

no problem on either account--cross the pickett line and sell to them all the overpriced goods and services they need-
-they had it good for a long time and much like a bunch of dudes at a Vegas bachelor party, noone likes putting it on their credit card cause when you get the bill noone is gonna be around to chip in-

ihateclay
07-02-2012, 08:05 PM
Depends on the situation, but in most instances, I would cross. Unions today are too strong, too demanding (look at the pro sports unions), and for the most part outdated. By outdated I mean that they no longer look out for the workers safety and fairness, and are now used as leverage to gain everything under the sun as a benefit and make it almost impossible to fire a union worker.

I really tried to walk away from this thread. :hammerhead:

The notion that unions are too strong is simply not true and is part of a culture shift in the last couple of decades in this country. Since 1978 CEO pay has risen 725% while workers pay rose 5.7%. We all want to believe that we can save a little and invest that money and become a millionaire. Or better yet, start a business, work hard, re-invest and the money will start rolling in. It happens, but not very often and I don't think we shouldn't try, just accept the reality. This same culture shift has lead to the McMansions and 50k SUVs riding on 10K worth of rims and tires as the family vehicle?!

Using pro sports unions as the example is like saying Snookie is the girl next door. I came from a small town, mid-west up bringing where unions were not popular. I get that. I have since worked my entire adult life under a union contract. I work under the Railway Labor Act as most transportation workers do and my current contract was a 3 year deal signed in 2004. It became ammendable (ours never expire) in 2007. A new one is not on the horizon either. Doesn't exactly fit the Jimmy Hoffa, union boogey man version that is popular today.

The inability to fire a union worker doesn't sit well with me either. That really has more to do HR regs and lawsuit threats than being a union worker though.

ihateclay
07-02-2012, 08:16 PM
I don't have as much of an issue with labor unions in private industries. I can see the need for collective bargaining. What chaps my derrière are public service unions. They are being paid with taxpayer money and use that money to support which ever person will vote them more money or benefits which of course come from the taxpayers.

Nobody likes taxes and I for one think all levels of our government have become bloated.

The thought that being a public worker means you can't exercise your democratic rights doesn't make much sense to me though. We seem to not care that private industry can taint our democracy by throwing huge amounts of money at our politicians. :dizzy:

Weekend cut easymoney
07-02-2012, 08:25 PM
We seem to not care that private industry can taint our democracy by throwing huge amounts of money at our politicians. :dizzy:

Unions spends almost as much as corporations -
union money mostly goes to democrats-
corporate money is evenly spread out for the most part-
-ceo pay and regular worker pay have not anything to do with one another-ceos are much like pro athletes-their talent commands a much higher pay and sucessful ceo's are in very high demand--

i'd argue that many Americans are losing their competative edge in their job skills--mostly they make less as their skills are less specialized and in demand throughout the world--others in the world can do the same job cheaper and sometimes better--

ihateclay
07-03-2012, 01:58 AM
Unions spends almost as much as corporations -
union money mostly goes to democrats-
corporate money is evenly spread out for the most part-

Not even close. All union money is easily accounted for and must be reported. thus it is an easy target. (BTW, I have never given to a union PAC.)


-ceo pay and regular worker pay have not anything to do with one another-ceos are much like pro athletes-their talent commands a much higher pay and sucessful ceo's are in very high demand--

I completely agree that a CEO should get higher pay, I was pointing out the alarming rate of increase in CEO pay while worker pay has essentially remained flat.

i'd argue that many Americans are losing their competative edge in their job skills--mostly they make less as their skills are less specialized and in demand throughout the world--others in the world can do the same job cheaper and sometimes better--

The original question was would you cross a picket line?
Let's put it in terms that I see lamented here on this forum. Let's say you bid and get awarded a good job. On the first day at the site and while you are starting up the trencher a second truck pulls up. Out jumps a competitor, runs up to the front door and offers to do the job for 10% less. Homeowner says sure. This is perfectly O.K. with you?!

1idejim
07-03-2012, 08:07 AM
I joined this forum in 09 without any hidden agenda's. I did not become a member to gain free advertisment or product exposure, i joined to see how other craftsmen from around the country did what i do, to learn and to share. I also didn't come to the irrigation forum to discuss politics or religon, all forums, even LS have religous and political forums for that purpose.
This thread needs to be moved or jerked.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
07-03-2012, 08:34 AM
I joined this forum in 09 without any hidden agenda's. I did not become a member to gain free advertisment or product exposure, i joined to see how other craftsmen from around the country did what i do, to learn and to share. I also didn't come to the irrigation forum to discuss politics or religon, all forums, even LS have religous and political forums for that purpose.
This thread needs to be moved or jerked.
Posted via Mobile Deviceor at least be made rude fun of

DanaMac
07-03-2012, 08:40 AM
I joined this forum in 09 without any hidden agenda's. I did not become a member to gain free advertisment or product exposure, i joined to see how other craftsmen from around the country did what i do, to learn and to share. I also didn't come to the irrigation forum to discuss politics or religon, all forums, even LS have religous and political forums for that purpose.
This thread needs to be moved or jerked.
Posted via Mobile Device

I came here for the free beer and food. Looks like I missed out.
We do sometimes deviate from the irrigation, and I should not have responded with my opinion on unions. My bad.

macgyver_GA
07-03-2012, 08:50 AM
...but my day job requires me to be a union member to keep my job...

That's another result of unions pushing their weight around. Why should you HAVE to join a union to be able to keep your job? That's one reason why I'm glad I live in a right to work state.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-03-2012, 09:01 AM
I don't read every thread started. Nobody is obligated to read every thread. Best way to kill a thread is to ignore it. If it doesn't get ignored then such is life. Music, family, dogs, wildfires, the weather, sewer lines, hiking etc. on occasion gets discussed here. ihateclay is making excellent points. Gives us food for thought. Doesn't change my opinion of public sector unions.

ihateclay
07-03-2012, 09:54 AM
Sorry, point taken. I appreciate your help earlier this week. I'll go back to reading and learning. :usflag: ( Us lurkers really like pictures )

mrsteve
07-03-2012, 04:44 PM
I joined this forum in 09 without any hidden agenda's. I did not become a member to gain free advertisment or product exposure, i joined to see how other craftsmen from around the country did what i do, to learn and to share. I also didn't come to the irrigation forum to discuss politics or religon, all forums, even LS have religous and political forums for that purpose.
This thread needs to be moved or jerked.
Posted via Mobile Device
Amen whoops I mean right on

Weekend cut easymoney
07-03-2012, 06:08 PM
The original question was would you cross a picket line?
Let's put it in terms that I see lamented here on this forum. Let's say you bid and get awarded a good job. On the first day at the site and while you are starting up the trencher a second truck pulls up. Out jumps a competitor, runs up to the front door and offers to do the job for 10% less. Homeowner says sure. This is perfectly O.K. with you?!

I'd politely remind the site owner that I have an agreed to price for stated work-and a signed work agreement and that they can opt out of the work as stated in my contract for my time, materials and a penalty-
then if they agreed, I'd leave--
no, i would not waste my time picketing--i'd let the courts decide what injury-

muddywater
07-03-2012, 07:34 PM
The original question was would you cross a picket line?
Let's put it in terms that I see lamented here on this forum. Let's say you bid and get awarded a good job. On the first day at the site and while you are starting up the trencher a second truck pulls up. Out jumps a competitor, runs up to the front door and offers to do the job for 10% less. Homeowner says sure. This is perfectly O.K. with you?!

Stupid comparison. That would be one hell of an awkward situation for the home owner and he would probably be laughed off of the property if not escorted off of the property.

Usually how it works is they get three bids in the first place and let supply and demand work its magic.

But i wouldn't expect you to understand supply and demand because of your union membership. You need some one else to help create demand for your position instead of doing it yourself.

muddywater
07-03-2012, 07:36 PM
I joined this forum in 09 without any hidden agenda's. I did not become a member to gain free advertisment or product exposure, i joined to see how other craftsmen from around the country did what i do, to learn and to share. I also didn't come to the irrigation forum to discuss politics or religon, all forums, even LS have religous and political forums for that purpose.
This thread needs to be moved or jerked.
Posted via Mobile Device

Become an administrator or don't read the post.

1idejim
07-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Become an administrator or don't read the post.

let me put this very politely, **** off.

Kiril
07-03-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm with Jim here. This thread does not belong in the irrigation forum .... end of story. If I wanted to listen to a bunch of children whine and cry I would watch the news or visit this sites children's forums..... oh and BTW muddy, I didn't read the idiocy either.

Weekend cut easymoney
07-03-2012, 08:29 PM
Apreciated is all the detailed advice that many of you who obviously possess vast experience in irrigation- I assumed he was trying to get advice about an irrigation job that he recently performed and picketing had something to do with it-
-whatever...no need to get all torqued up about it though as it went a different direction-

muddywater
07-03-2012, 08:29 PM
let me put this very politely, **** off.

Getting a little grumpy! I like it. Old man's got some pep in his step.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-03-2012, 11:38 PM
Some people read everything I guess. I pick and choose my threads but shutting down free speech isn't my thing. Rotar titled the thread appropriately. If the subject pisses you off then don't read it. If you have no self control over what you read then that is your problem.

Kiril
07-04-2012, 08:03 AM
People also can read the title of the forum and post appropriate topics into that forum. If people are unable to have enough self control and comprehensive ability to understand that ...... just saying.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-04-2012, 08:19 AM
And every title and subject has pertained to this forum? Like I said earlier we've discussed dogs, cooking, hiking, wildfires among a few other topics. When the thread topic police protest all out of topic threads they will have way more credibility. In the mean time use a little discipline and don't read stuff that doesn't suit your tastes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
07-04-2012, 08:28 AM
I didn't read the idiotic posts in this thread, just skipped right over them. That however doesn't change the fact it doesn't belong in this forum, nor do threads on dogs, cooking, hiking, wildfires, building maintenance, or whatever inappropriate subject that is not related to irrigation. If you can't understand how forums work, or what belongs in the off-topic and children's forums, then don't post .... simple as that. Exercise some self-control.

Kiril
07-04-2012, 08:34 AM
But heh .... since we don't care about being on topic ..... pixie dust on you

http://pixyland.org/peterpan/Imagez/Ch2002_fly2_234h.jpg

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-04-2012, 08:55 AM
Kiril hates puppies
Posted via Mobile Device

Weekend cut easymoney
07-05-2012, 07:38 PM
I didn't read the idiotic posts in this thread, just skipped right over them. That however doesn't change the fact it doesn't belong in this forum, nor do threads on dogs, cooking, hiking, wildfires, building maintenance, or whatever inappropriate subject that is not related to irrigation. If you can't understand how forums work, or what belongs in the off-topic and children's forums, then don't post .... simple as that. Exercise some self-control.

Well, if the orginal guy was talking about an irrigation job, then yes, it belonged here-

Kiril
07-06-2012, 10:29 AM
Well, if the orginal guy was talking about an irrigation job, then yes, it belonged here-

I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?

Weekend cut easymoney
07-06-2012, 05:50 PM
I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?

now your toyin with me--(i'll have to go find one...I know its gotta exist:laugh:)--plumbers supervise our industry here in Texas though-

so you don't have to go and read any previous post...the guy said that he got some irrigation contract and then ,,,,yada yada picketting people...blah blah...and asked a question...the rest is history

Weekend cut easymoney
07-06-2012, 05:53 PM
I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?

we'll save me the time and effort and assume no...but that doesn't mean you won't ever have to work around some picketting construction workers, plumbers or whatever union might be tryign to stop work to get more money for its workers-

jvanvliet
07-06-2012, 06:00 PM
I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1951&dat=19730723&id=rXYhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TYkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4057,5165160

And the gerbil still lives:dizzy:

Duekster
07-06-2012, 06:04 PM
I have respect for few unions frankly. They have all but killed what respect they did earn in the past.

As far as plumbers go, most are afraid of irrigation cause it has wires on it. :D

Weekend cut easymoney
07-06-2012, 06:40 PM
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1951&dat=19730723&id=rXYhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TYkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4057,5165160

And the gerbil still lives:dizzy:

I knew it...there alwasy has to be one!

Mike Leary
07-06-2012, 08:13 PM
I have respect for few unions frankly. They have all but killed what respect they did earn in the past.

As far as plumbers go, most are afraid of irrigation cause it has wires on it. :D

Ditto. I've belonged to a couple of unions and they seemed to be self-assuming fat cats that bought golf clubs from the union dues. :hammerhead:

Kiril
07-06-2012, 11:44 PM
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1951&dat=19730723&id=rXYhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TYkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4057,5165160

And the gerbil still lives:dizzy:

We aren't talking about government public works ..... yahoos.

we'll save me the time and effort and assume no...but that doesn't mean you won't ever have to work around some picketting construction workers, plumbers or whatever union might be tryign to stop work to get more money for its workers-

Who cares .... it has nothing to do with irrigation.

muddywater
07-07-2012, 05:42 AM
We aren't talking about government public works ..... yahoos.



Who cares .... it has nothing to do with irrigation.

I cant understand why you are sympathetic to unions. You yourself are the polar opposite of a union worker.... Intelligent, independent thinker, give a damn about your work, etc.
Posted via Mobile Device

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-07-2012, 09:32 AM
The thread complainer keeps reading the thread. Actually that is very union like. Try and shut down anything you don't like.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-07-2012, 09:40 AM
I cant understand why you are sympathetic to unions. You yourself are the polar opposite of a union worker.... Intelligent, independent thinker, give a damn about your work, etc.
Posted via Mobile Device

In fairness I've met union workers that did outstanding work. The problem is getting rid of poor performing union workers. CA teachers are the prime example. Teacher unions are the biggest obstacle to making the reforms we need to overhaul education in this country.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2012/04/california-teachers-union.html

Kiril
07-07-2012, 10:04 AM
I cant understand why you are sympathetic to unions. You yourself are the polar opposite of a union worker.... Intelligent, independent thinker, give a damn about your work, etc.


Where the hell did you get that? Unions are nothing more than legalized mob, even if they do protect the worker from corporate greed in some cases .... and again, WTF does this have to do with irrigation?

Wet_Boots
07-07-2012, 10:18 AM
But heh .... since we don't care about being on topic ..... pixie dust on you

http://pixyland.org/peterpan/Imagez/Ch2002_fly2_234h.jpgOh no, you went there, didn't you :confused:

http://pixyland.org/peterpan/Imagezz/pixyFriends/Tom_K.jpg

gusbuster
07-07-2012, 04:12 PM
I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?
Thought the company that did the irrigation down at the California Park, whatever they call it at Dizzyland either had to pay the wage that pipe-fitters got or join the local as part of their contract?

By the way, as some of you may be surprised, the liberal bastion of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.....California is a right to work state.

Crossing a picket line to do an irrigation job....no problem. Unions, instead of looking out for their subjects only care for themselves......Why did Stockton, CA declare bankruptcy? Why did the voters of San Jose vote for pension reform and over 350 L.E.O. abandon the department?

Regarding going off subject, 2 points, don't like what is being said, then report the post so it can be dealt with appropriately by the forum moderator or just ignore the post.

One of the reasons I choose not to come on here as much as I use to is the fact that instead of irrigation, beer, food, sports is talked more than irrigation sometimes. Also, forgot his handle, think it was purplehaze.....miss his pictures and post from Visialla CA.

John

Mike Leary
07-07-2012, 04:40 PM
We miss you, as well as Hayes, Mudpuppy, Dirty Water, and a few others that have dropped out for many reasons.

muddywater
07-07-2012, 09:30 PM
Where the hell did you get that? Unions are nothing more than legalized mob, even if they do protect the worker from corporate greed in some cases .... and again, WTF does this have to do with irrigation?

My bad!!! Back to irrigation, why not use rotors w mps if you can match precip rate?
Posted via Mobile Device

ARGOS
07-07-2012, 10:30 PM
I am not aware of any irrigation unions ..... are you?

I do believe the Laborers Union claims irrigation in CA. I am pretty sure it is regional.

Kiril
07-08-2012, 08:41 AM
I do believe the Laborers Union claims irrigation in CA. I am pretty sure it is regional.

They probably would although it is not automatic. How many irrigators do you know that are union barring public sector idiocy? You weren't a union shop when you were still in the biz, were you?

Thought the company that did the irrigation down at the California Park, whatever they call it at Dizzyland either had to pay the wage that pipe-fitters got or join the local as part of their contract?

I've worked on jobs like that, where we got payed union wages even though we were not part of a union. That wasn't in this state though, nor was it irrigation.

AI Inc
07-08-2012, 10:31 AM
JUst bid a soccer field that was a rate job.

ARGOS
07-08-2012, 01:50 PM
They probably would although it is not automatic. How many irrigators do you know that are union barring public sector idiocy? You weren't a union shop when you were still in the biz, were you?



I've worked on jobs like that, where we got payed union wages even though we were not part of a union. That wasn't in this state though, nor was it irrigation.

No I have never been in the Union. However I have and continue to bid prevailing wage jobs (union wages). Typically govt. jobs give the private sector (non-union) an opportunity to bid on jobs, but the playing field is leveled by setting wages at prevailing wage which is basically union wage. I have had multiple times when the union has shown up on jobs that we won, but the union wants to confirm payroll is prevailing wage. From my perspective it is like they are "entitled" to the job and can't believe they didn't get it.

The current job I am on is a union job. There are more disagreements between the trades then between management and union. Some craft areas get gray, so usually multiple trades claim it as theirs. Then there is a show down.

Weekend cut easymoney
07-10-2012, 11:42 AM
We aren't talking about government public works ..... yahoos.



Who cares .... it has nothing to do with irrigation.

Well, you can talk specifically about the technical aspect of irrigation and your expertise is very apreciated and needed, though there are many other things that one must muck through when working in the irrigation industry (governmental permits, new state rules, the business aspect, water shortages or percieved shortages and restrictions )-

All aspects, I would argue, are useful information that should be discussed here on this particualr forum-

Michael J. Donovan
07-10-2012, 02:08 PM
ok guys, agree to disagree, or not, on this one, but I think it's time we move on

thanks