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View Full Version : Help with Combating crabgrass with Celcius WG.


gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 05:50 PM
First let me start this thread letting you guys know I am Home Owner DIY kind of guy. I read a lot of threads on here and take in as much knowledge as possible. So here is my question...

I want to make sure I use this Celcius WG product correctly. Because I know improperly using this stuff and I could destroy my lawn.

I had a irrigation system installed April 25th roughly, and when they trenched the yard I think they awoke a sleeping nightmare of crabgrass. This is a new home and the Tifton bermuda was laid Dec 15th 2011. I went to the Local John Deere landscapes and he recommended the Celcius for my problems. The crab grass is my largest problem but i have random other weeds throughout the yard.

I notice on the product label to treat crab grass i need to use .113 oz per 1000sqft. I have a 2 gallon pump sprayer and 8000sqft of grass. I am somewhat confused on how to mix it.

The measuring cup is odd...it has 1,13 oZ but not .113 and the cup has a comma next to the 1 not a decimal point. would that be .113 oz line?

Should i only spot treat or blanket my entire yard?

I laid new sod in the trenches 32 days ago, it has all rooted, is it Safe?

Should i mow before treating or after?

I need to apply fert, does it matter when i do it with this treatment?

The weather is very hot down here right now, is there a certain time of day I should apply this.

I read alot of other threads saying they use a surfacant, is that necessary? if so is Hi-Yield spreader sticker a proper product. http://www.fertilome.com/product.aspx?pid=2d96ab93-df5b-4d76-be77-fd4669e0c890

Have I forgot anything important?

I would provide some pictures to help, but it is not letting me upload any photos.

here is the product label if you dont have it in front of you
http://harrells.com/wp-content/harrells-products/label-images/CELSIU.pdf

Thank you all of your help is greatly appreciated.

gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:16 PM
Found this on a website for a conversion....

Low rate is 0.057 oz. or 1.6 grams per gallon water
Middle rate is 0.085 oz. or 2.4 grams per gallon water
High rate is 0.113 oz. or 3.2 grams per gallon water

Now I have to figure out how to measure grams with out buying a digital scale.

Any idea how much a T-spoon of this stuff weighs?

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:17 PM
Not gonna have much luck using Celcius on CG...I hate to say it.
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cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:19 PM
The comma is a decimal point. If ypu have to divide your rate in 1/4's to find a better line to measure from.
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cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:20 PM
For spot treating mix .117 oz with 2 gallons (provided your two gallons covers 2000 sq ft or close)
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gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:21 PM
Not gonna have much luck using Celcius on CG...I hate to say it.
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Are you serious... I asked the JDL guys what the best thing to take this stuff out with was and they told this was it.

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:23 PM
Are you serious... I asked the JDL guys what the best thing to take this stuff out with was and they told this was it.

They lied.
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cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:25 PM
You might get some kill on really small cg, one tiller maybe...
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Turf Dawg
07-02-2012, 08:30 PM
I get good control with it.

JDL used to have a double sides spoon for Celcius to mix the smaller batches. It is what I use when BP mixing.

gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:34 PM
well I already bought it so I am going to use it. Does it need a surfacant added?.

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:35 PM
well I already bought it so I am going to use it. Does it need a surfacant added?.

10-4...have you opened it? If your target is cg its not going to work...waste of money.
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Turf Dawg
07-02-2012, 08:47 PM
I always use MSO but I think I put too much in this last time because I got yellowing.

gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:51 PM
10-4...have you opened it? If your target is cg its not going to work...waste of money.
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Opened...
So tell me if this sounds right...
2 gallons of water, 6.4 grams of celcius, and I'm not sure how much surfactant.
Now my next question is can I spray this all over my yard with that amount of solution? Doing a sweeping motion with my sprayer from one end of the yard to the other.
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gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:53 PM
I always use MSO but I think I put too much in this last time because I got yellowing.

Did you see the surfactant product I have? Hi-yield spreader sticker, will that stuff work?
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Turf Dawg
07-02-2012, 08:54 PM
First you need to see how much that 2gal is going to cover

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 08:55 PM
Non ionic? If so .25 oz per k.
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gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 08:58 PM
I can just do 1 gallon of water and multiply by 2 right:)9
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cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 09:01 PM
Check pm
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gulfjoe
07-02-2012, 09:01 PM
Non ionic? If so .25 oz per k.
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This one doesn't say non ionic like the product label on the website, but it has the same UPC number. I bought this stuff a few years ago in Texas.
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RigglePLC
07-02-2012, 10:10 PM
There are about 6 teaspoons per ounce. A teaspoon is 0.17 of an ounce. If you use two gallons and one teaspoon, you will be using about .083 ounces per gallon--the medium rate.

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 10:12 PM
There are about 6 teaspoons per ounce. A teaspoon is 0.17 of an ounce. If you use two gallons and one teaspoon, you will be using about .083 ounces per gallon--the medium rate.

This is what I was trying to tell him but without looking at the label...bad thing to do!

Fwiw I read label every time I mix!
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RigglePLC
07-02-2012, 10:12 PM
There are about 6 teaspoons per ounce. A teaspoon is 0.17 of an ounce. If you use two gallons and one teaspoon, you will be using about .083 ounces per gallon--the medium rate.

Of course it all depends on the density of the material.

cgaengineer
07-02-2012, 10:14 PM
There are about 6 teaspoons per ounce. A teaspoon is 0.17 of an ounce. If you use two gallons and one teaspoon, you will be using about .083 ounces per gallon--the medium rate.

Of course it all depends on the density of the material.

It come with a nice cup...and the first graduation is the spot treatment rate if I recall. I thought it was .117 oz
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Turf Dawg
07-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Since this is your own lawn I think I would use the medium rate of
.085oz per k with your surfactant and then do the same thing again in 14 days.

greendoctor
07-03-2012, 04:03 AM
Celsius can be disappointing on tough weeds when MSO is not used. Spreader sticker type products do exactly the opposite of what is needed. They hold herbicides on the surface of the leaf, hindering penetration. Spreader stickers are for non systemic fungicides and insecticides only.

cgaengineer
07-03-2012, 05:35 AM
Celsius can be disappointing on tough weeds when MSO is not used. Spreader sticker type products do exactly the opposite of what is needed. They hold herbicides on the surface of the leaf, hindering penetration. Spreader stickers are for non systemic fungicides and insecticides only.

I've had good luck with non ionic Gd, ymmv. I might should try MSO..I've never used it with anything.
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 05:35 AM
This is what I was trying to tell him but without looking at the label...bad thing to do!

Fwiw I read label every time I mix!
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http://harrells.com/wp-content/harre...ges/CELSIU.pdf

gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 05:42 AM
There are about 6 teaspoons per ounce. A teaspoon is 0.17 of an ounce. If you use two gallons and one teaspoon, you will be using about .083 ounces per gallon--the medium rate.

Of course it all depends on the density of the material.

So the mix would be 2 gallons of water, 1 teaspoon of celsius, 1.5 teaspoons of surfacant/ MSO (going to go pick some up after work today) mix well and its ready.

Now is mix this better for spot treatment or entire lawn coverage.

Also I am battling crabgrass mostly, and the label says .113 Oz for CG should i still go with the above mix?

cgaengineer
07-03-2012, 06:19 AM
I still think you should get something made for crabgrass...ignore what it says on Celcius label. I think you are going to be disappointed in the results.
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 06:33 AM
I bought this becaause JDL said it was for crabgrass. What are you currently reccomending? I really dont want to go spend another $90, hence why I am going to try this stuff out and see how it works. If it kills it then no harm no foul, if it does'nt I will try the product you reccomend. Unlike you guys I cant make any money when I buy these products, So I just had to explain to my wife why I spent that much $$$ on weed killer, now I have to tell her this stuff was wrong and I need to spend another $100 on something diffrent. :hammerhead:

gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 06:34 AM
I bought this becaause JDL said it was for crabgrass. What are you currently reccomending? I really dont want to go spend another $90, hence why I am going to try this stuff out and see how it works. If it kills it then no harm no foul, if it does'nt I will try the product you reccomend. Unlike you guys I cant make any money when I buy these products, So I just had to explain to my wife why I spent that much $$$ on weed killer, now I have to tell her this stuff was wrong and I need to spend another $100 on something diffrent. :hammerhead:


Should I just hit with some Ortho Weed-B-Gon Max?

cgaengineer
07-03-2012, 06:47 AM
I bought this becaause JDL said it was for crabgrass. What are you currently reccomending? I really dont want to go spend another $90, hence why I am going to try this stuff out and see how it works. If it kills it then no harm no foul, if it does'nt I will try the product you reccomend. Unlike you guys I cant make any money when I buy these products, So I just had to explain to my wife why I spent that much $$$ on weed killer, now I have to tell her this stuff was wrong and I need to spend another $100 on something diffrent. :hammerhead:

But spraying something that won't kill your target weed is harming...it's also a waste of time and money. Keep the Celcius, it's great stuff (I love Celcius)...but there are other products that work on cg.
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 06:59 AM
But spraying something that won't kill your target weed is harming...it's also a waste of time and money. Keep the Celcius, it's great stuff (I love Celcius)...but there are other products that work on cg.
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I am going to try the Ceilcius. few questions for you...

Should I use the mix mentioned in the previous comments? or up the amount of celcius to the label specs for CG .113 oz?

I have a bag of Lesco 28-0-3 fert to put out, Should I apply it before or after the treatment and if so how long before/after?

Should I mow my lawn (which really needs it right now) then treat or go ahead and spray then wait a few days to mow?

cgaengineer
07-03-2012, 07:07 AM
Apply fert now and either cut now and wait 3 days to apply. I you are going to try to kill cg with Celcius I'd go max rate.
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 07:18 AM
Apply fert now and either cut now and wait 3 days to apply. I you are going to try to kill cg with Celcius I'd go max rate.
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This my new plan of attack.

Cut and fert today. Friday evening apply celcius in a spot treatment.

I will post pictures if lawnsite ever allows me to again.

Is there a max upload for a single user on the site. I was looking through my profile and it said I has 12MB of attachments on here.

Duekster
07-03-2012, 07:23 AM
I get good control with it.

JDL used to have a double sides spoon for Celcius to mix the smaller batches. It is what I use when BP mixing.

Certainty has the two sided spoon and is sold in the 1,2 oz bottles, are you thinking this product?

Turf Dawg
07-03-2012, 11:01 AM
Certainty has the two sided spoon and is sold in the 1,2 oz bottles, are you thinking this product?

The Certainty spoon is way smaller. After looking the Celcius spoon is just a 1tsp and .5 tsp [maybe grams] but it also came with a mixing chart for the different rates on how many scoops and size you need. Makes for mixing small batches like handheld sprayers easier.

Duekster
07-03-2012, 01:19 PM
The Certainty spoon is way smaller. After looking the Celcius spoon is just a 1tsp and .5 tsp [maybe grams] but it also came with a mixing chart for the different rates on how many scoops and size you need. Makes for mixing small batches like handheld sprayers easier.

The bottle I bought did not have a spoon like that :cry:

cgaengineer
07-03-2012, 01:25 PM
The bottle I bought did not have a spoon like that :cry:

Nope, it's a cup...100% sure...bought mucho Celcius.
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Turf Dawg
07-03-2012, 01:30 PM
I had two spoons but lost one. I have plennnnty of cups though.
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 03:34 PM
The Certainty spoon is way smaller. After looking the Celcius spoon is just a 1tsp and .5 tsp [maybe grams] but it also came with a mixing chart for the different rates on how many scoops and size you need. Makes for mixing small batches like handheld sprayers easier.

did the measuring chart look something like this?
http://www.backedbybayer.com/pdf/landing_pages/celsius/Celsius_Measurement_GUIDE_FINAL.pdf

Turf Dawg
07-03-2012, 04:49 PM
Yes, that is it. MSO mixed with it works great. I think you will be pleased with the results
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Yes, that is it. MSO mixed with it works great. I think you will be pleased with the results
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Well the weather has just pushed everything back a day. We just had a BIG TStorm come through.

This was my game plan

I took a teaspoon measuring sppon outta my kitchen

I put 2 teaspoons of celcius in sprayer with 2 Gallons of water

and I added 2 teaspoons of Non Ioninc surf.

mixed well and should keep mixed well as i spray.

I should not soak the area but just get it wet.

Sound right? I hope so...

GALAWN
07-03-2012, 08:37 PM
At the higher rate for Celcius it can control smaller crabgrass if used with a sticker and in heat. I am pretty sure the label calls for a sticker and that's what I've been using and getting results with. If you only need to kill crabgrass and nothing else just use Drive and what it doesn't kill go back two weeks later and kill again. But since you already have the cels just use it at the third rate with a sticker. The high rate is 6.4 per two gallons of water. I wouldn't sweat the square feet sprayed, just fan spray till it's decently wet which only usually takes a good long swipe of your wand. Since it's your own yard this should be easy. Celcius takes a couple weeks unless it 90 or above so don't expect it do be done in a couple days.

gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 08:54 PM
At the higher rate for Celcius it can control smaller crabgrass if used with a sticker and in heat. I am pretty sure the label calls for a sticker and that's what I've been using and getting results with. If you only need to kill crabgrass and nothing else just use Drive and what it doesn't kill go back two weeks later and kill again. But since you already have the cels just use it at the third rate with a sticker. The high rate is 6.4 per two gallons of water. I wouldn't sweat the square feet sprayed, just fan spray till it's decently wet which only usually takes a good long swipe of your wand. Since it's your own yard this should be easy. Celcius takes a couple weeks unless it 90 or above so don't expect it do be done in a couple days.

That would be .226 oz in the measuring cup they have me right? And it has been in the upper 90-100s lately but should just be in the high 80s to low 90s this weekend
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gulfjoe
07-03-2012, 08:55 PM
That would be .226 oz in the measuring cup they have me right? And it has been in the upper 90-100s lately but should just be in the high 80s to low 90s this weekend
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Also using Hi Yield spreader sticker.
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gulfjoe
07-08-2012, 03:15 PM
is there any time of the day i should avoid applying Celcius? Could i apply it in th 5 PM heat?

greendoctor
07-08-2012, 06:07 PM
The only times and circumstances Celsius should not be applied is when it is windy or raining. Otherwise, this is a product that works much better in warm weather. The only problems I have had with product efficacy occurred when daytime temperatures were below 80.

gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 05:46 PM
I just applied the celcius using my handheld pump sprayer. I used 2 tea spoons of celcius and 2 tea spoons of non ionic surfactant with 2 gallons of water. I used a fan spraying metho along the trenches where they dug for my sprinklers where the CG is the worst. Going to monitor for the next 2 weeks then reapply where needed. The current temps here are in the mid 90s so I am hoping for good results.
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cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 08:47 PM
Let me know how the Celcius works on the CG.
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Turf Dawg
07-09-2012, 08:56 PM
I want to know how good it works with your surfactant instead of MSO.

cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 08:57 PM
I want to know how good it works with your surfactant instead of MSO.

For broadleafs I can say it works just fine...it's all I ever use with it. I'm afraid he's not going to get any kill on CG at all regardless of surfactant or MSO.

I've used Celcius with no surf, just Celcius and water and it worked fine for me.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:00 PM
Did that solution/mixuture sound right?
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cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 09:05 PM
Did that solution/mixuture sound right?
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I don't know because I use the included measuring cup. The cup makes it easy, fill cup to first lowest mark and add it to 2 gallons of water. Add .5 oz of surfactant to the mix and spray.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:08 PM
It filled it a lil less than .226oz
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cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 09:09 PM
It filled it a lil less than .226oz
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Ouch...I think you are about 2x max.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:10 PM
With 2 gallons of water
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:11 PM
http://www.backedbybayer.com/pdf/landing_pages/celsius/Celsius_Measurement_GUIDE_FINAL.pdf
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cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 09:11 PM
http://www.backedbybayer.com/pdf/landing_pages/celsius/Celsius_Measurement_GUIDE_FINAL.pdf
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No, that's about right.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:11 PM
That's what I followed.
I used spot spraying guide.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:12 PM
Whew,you scared me a lil.
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cgaengineer
07-09-2012, 09:12 PM
That's what I followed.
I used spot spraying guide.
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I don't use that much surf.
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:14 PM
You said use max rate for CG, I am going to battle this stuff and see If it works. Then I will lower the does and do my entire yard
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gulfjoe
07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
You said use max rate for CG, I am going to battle this stuff and see If it works. Then I will lower the does and do my entire yard
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If this doesn't work I am going to try Drive
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jad004
07-10-2012, 01:39 AM
I want to know how good it works with your surfactant instead of MSO.


Surfactant works good on broadleaves, not so good on CG. To kill CG, I use medium rate with MSO and make 2 application 14-21 days apart. Excellent Control that way. Basically only product I use except for sedges and dallis grass.

jad004
07-10-2012, 01:43 AM
I always use MSO but I think I put too much in this last time because I got yellowing.


I'm with you there. Helper put 4 oz MSO in 3 gallon backpack of celsius at 105 degrees for a week straight. Needless to say, I've had a "couple" of calls for burnt spots.

gulfjoe
07-10-2012, 05:41 AM
I'm with you there. Helper put 4 oz MSO in 3 gallon backpack of celsius at 105 degrees for a week straight. Needless to say, I've had a "couple" of calls for burnt spots.

Will the surfacant burn my yard like the MSO did your lawns? I used 2 teaspoons of the stuff.

greendoctor
07-10-2012, 05:54 AM
Most likely no. Big difference between 2 teaspoons and over an ounce per gallon. I limit MSO to 1/2 oz per gallon in warm weather. The one ounce per gallon is only if I have to do a lawn in cold and cloudy weather.

jad004
07-10-2012, 06:19 AM
You will be just fine with the 2 teaspoons. My guy just made a total mistake when he mixed the backpack for the day. We usually limit the MSO to 1/2 oz per gallon when it is this hot.

lawns Etc
07-10-2012, 07:31 PM
Drive isnt much better on Crab esp if its larger crabgrass. Q4 is all I spray for everything after June 1st when temps creep up. Easier mixing and measuring and kills basically everything I target

gulfjoe
07-12-2012, 09:20 AM
I applied the herbicide on Monday 7-10-12, would it be ok to mow tomorrow on the 13th?

R&S Lawn Care
07-12-2012, 10:00 AM
Yes
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Turf Dawg
07-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Yes
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I agree. 3 days is plenty
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gulfjoe
07-13-2012, 02:33 PM
UPDATE:

4 days after application I have some CG leaves turning purple and some yellowing/wilting. some areas of CG look to be still going strong. I am bout to mow, when should I reapply? I have heard anywhere from 7-14 days. should I just go in the middle and do 10 days?

Thanks in advance.

Duekster
07-13-2012, 03:42 PM
UPDATE:

4 days after application I have some CG leaves turning purple and some yellowing/wilting. some areas of CG look to be still going strong. I am bout to mow, when should I reapply? I have heard anywhere from 7-14 days. should I just go in the middle and do 10 days?

Thanks in advance.

Some where around day 10 or 11 I would mow, water well, wait a day and apply.

Err quick look at the lable, 2~4 weeks is the window