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weed wacker 2
07-03-2012, 10:02 PM
Im not an expert on irrigation but I am slowly learning. I have a property where 7 Rainbird 500s are only covering 22ft. They are 8ft short of what they need to cover. Im not sure what the problem is. I don't know if its pressure related or what. The system is 4 years old.

DanaMac
07-03-2012, 10:07 PM
Have they ever worked properly?
Could be low pressure, clogged filter, nozzles too large, or possibly 10 other things.
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weed wacker 2
07-03-2012, 10:24 PM
Yeah I know there is several different things that could factor in. Im not sure if they have worked properly before because we havent been taking care of the property long. Also in the controller box, the wire to the zone 14 is not even connected in the box. I couldnt even find the wire a wire that goes there. The #4 was unhooked also. I hooked it up and its working properly.

AskTurfPro
07-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Sounds like you have a low flow situation. Does the system have a pump or is it city water. If you can measure the supply, then you will know if you have enough flow to power 7 heads. What size nozzles do the heads have. If they all have 2.0 Gallon per minute (GPM) nozzles the you'll need 14 GPM from your supply to pressure them up.

weed wacker 2
07-03-2012, 11:09 PM
Sounds like you have a low flow situation. Does the system have a pump or is it city water. If you can measure the supply, then you will know if you have enough flow to power 7 heads. What size nozzles do the heads have. If they all have 2.0 Gallon per minute (GPM) nozzles the you'll need 14 GPM from your supply to pressure them up.

Im not sure what the nozzle size is. I will check. Ill hook a flow meter up and check the flow. Its on city water. any ideas about the wire. The sleeve goes underneath a parking lot so it would be difficult running a new wire. Can I use a wire locator and attach it to the wire on the valve and see where it stops at heading to the controller.

Irrigation Contractor
07-04-2012, 03:14 AM
Don't take this the wrong way.....

How can you be contracted to maintain the property if you have no irrigation skills or knowledge?

The questions you are asking a pretty basic issues and I am guessing you are doing the lawn care including the irrigation services?

weed wacker 2
07-04-2012, 09:50 AM
Yes we do the lawn care on the property. I've replaced heads and broken pipes before as well as backflow repairs but I have problems diagnosing some problems. I'm on here asking questions because it's what you do when you don't know the answer.
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Duekster
07-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Like someone posted, could be many things. Are all of these on the same station?

Need more info to help you.

weed wacker 2
07-04-2012, 10:17 AM
No they are two different stations. One with sprays and the other with rotors.
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Duekster
07-04-2012, 10:23 AM
No they are two different stations. One with sprays and the other with rotors.
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Do not mix sprays and rotors.

How many rotors on a station? How big is the meter, Main line and valve?

Kiril
07-04-2012, 11:03 AM
This thread is pointless without knowing

1) Available supply flow
2) Zone design flow
3) Zone actual flow
4) Supply Pressure (POC or at the zone valve, latter being the better reading to get)
5) Nozzle pressure at your most distal sprinkler


And I might as well note, there is usually a good reason for a disconnect valve wire if the zone still works .... usually a leak someone didn't want to fix or couldn't find.

Duekster
07-04-2012, 11:12 AM
This thread is pointless without knowing

1) Available supply flow
2) Zone design flow
3) Zone actual flow
4) Supply Pressure (POC or at the zone valve, latter being the better reading to get)
5) Nozzle pressure at your most distal sprinkler


And I might as well note, there is usually a good reason for a disconnect valve wire if the zone still works .... usually a leak someone didn't want to fix or couldn't find.

You are not going to know design flow in many cases.

Kiril
07-04-2012, 11:16 AM
You are not going to know design flow in many cases.

Sure you can. Audit the system and if it varies from what would be considered correct design for the layout, then substitute in the correct nozzles for the zone area to get your design flow. No telling what yahoo has been swapping sprinklers or renozzling.

Duekster
07-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Sure you can. Audit the system and if it varies from what would be considered correct design for the layout, then substitute in the correct nozzles for the zone area to get your design flow. No telling what yahoo has been swapping sprinklers or renozzling.

The HO's I met with last night is who.

I do not audit unless the system is considered operational. I often correct first then audit. I do not need an full blown audit to see incorrect spacing, or short throws.

I suppose that is kind of an informal pre-audit.

Kiril
07-04-2012, 11:24 AM
The HO's I met with last night is who.

I do not audit unless the system is considered operational. I often correct first then audit. I do not need an full blown audit to see incorrect spacing, or short throws.

I suppose that is kind of an informal pre-audit.

"Audit" means more than just catch can and it doesn't necessarily have to include a catch can audit.

Duekster
07-04-2012, 11:33 AM
"Audit" means more than just catch can and it doesn't necessarily have to include a catch can audit.

Then fair enough.

AskTurfPro
07-04-2012, 03:31 PM
If the wire was unhooked, how did you know it goes to zone 14. Sometimes there is a spare wire in the bundle that is not being used. Does it look like there is a zone that is not coming on? If its stripped and it looks like it goes to Zone 14, hook it up, run it, and see if any thing happens. If not, you can use a meter to tell if its connected to a valve, or cut, or shorted. Do you have a volt meter that can check for ohms? A brand new rainbird electrical valve has a resistance of 43 ohms. Connect your leads to common and the wire for zone 14 and see what you get. If it reads 1, you got a cut and/or the wire is not connected to anything, if its 40-60 ohms you got a good valve, if its real low or zero, you got a short. Good Luck! Troubleshooting can get confusing but if you stick with it, you will figure it out.

AskTurfPro
07-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Of all the things I do in landscape maintenance, troubleshooting irrigation systems is the most challanging. But the most rewarding. Nothing feels better then to see the water flowing again and thinking you saved the landscape.

muddywater
07-04-2012, 06:59 PM
Here is what I would do, I have a somewhat similar situation I have been contracted to fix, but I figured it out when I was giving the estimate. Irritrol valves not opening all the way. 5 rotors on a zone. He wants to stretch the zone a bit, but not gonna happen with 55psi.

Find out what kind of pressure you have. Get a pressure guage and plug in somewhere.

Are all the other zones working well? How many heads on other zones compared to this one?

Is the water meter turned on all the way?

Is the backflow turned on all the way?

Can you find the valve to those two zones?

Can you manually open the blead screw or solenoid to see if the diaphram is not opening all of the way with the clock?

What is the voltage on the clock when you have the zone turned on that particular station?

What kind of olhm reading to you get checking the solenoids?

weed wacker 2
07-05-2012, 08:26 PM
If the wire was unhooked, how did you know it goes to zone 14. Sometimes there is a spare wire in the bundle that is not being used. Does it look like there is a zone that is not coming on? If its stripped and it looks like it goes to Zone 14, hook it up, run it, and see if any thing happens. If not, you can use a meter to tell if its connected to a valve, or cut, or shorted. Do you have a volt meter that can check for ohms? A brand new rainbird electrical valve has a resistance of 43 ohms. Connect your leads to common and the wire for zone 14 and see what you get. If it reads 1, you got a cut and/or the wire is not connected to anything, if its 40-60 ohms you got a good valve, if its real low or zero, you got a short. Good Luck! Troubleshooting can get confusing but if you stick with it, you will figure it out.

There is no wire going to zone 14, The spare wire was stripped and went to zone 4. It wasnt hooked up. The spigots outside takes a key. In which I didnt have. I have one at the shop and I am going to return tomorrow. I manually turned on the solenoid and everything worked properly. Im going to run my valve finder/wire tracer to see if the wire leads to the controller or breaks somewhere. There is no wire in the controller box for station 4.

AI Inc
07-06-2012, 06:53 AM
Have they ever worked properly?

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That is the key question right there. Chances are , no.

Duekster
07-06-2012, 07:45 AM
How are the wire run? Is it a multi strand?

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 03:02 PM
Okay, I took 3 pressure and flow readings from spigots. The pressure is low at 40psi and 5gpm. The 5000s gave number 3 nozzles in them. If my pressure is only 40 how are 7 of them going to work properly on that zone. Do you think it would make that much of a difference if I put #2 in them. I dug under the controller box and there are only 13 wires coming up through it. Any ideas on what to do about it?
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 06:34 PM
So, you are saying all the wires are used up? Or is the clock maxed from other field runs?

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 07:24 PM
Yes all the wires are used. There are 14 zones and only 13 station wires in the box. I believe it is a 16 station controller.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 07:49 PM
It is possible that 2 zones were intentionally combined during the install and since 13 strand is a standard the installer purchased the bare minimum rather than spring for 18 strand.

the installer may have coupled more than 1 pair, you can vsually look at the other valves and learn from them more about the installation
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weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 07:55 PM
So would that mean 2 zones would come on at once?
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 07:57 PM
So would that mean 2 zones would come on at once?

Yes, which would account for your problem.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 08:01 PM
If that is the case it would b the zone next to it which is 13. I do not see near enough pressure to operate both zones. Both are spray zones. So if both are wired together it's more than likely a solenoid problem. I turned the bleed screw and everything worked properly.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 08:02 PM
Yes, which would account for your problem.

if you had done the install he would be asking what to do with all those extra wires
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weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 08:03 PM
The zone is 50ft under on the other side of concrete. I do not see a way to run another wire to this zone
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 08:08 PM
If that is the case it would b the zone next to it which is 13. I do not see near enough pressure to operate both zones. Both are spray zones. So if both are wired together it's more than likely a solenoid problem. I turned the bleed screw and everything worked properly.
You turned the bleeder on one valve off, and the zone worked ? Be specific here.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 08:15 PM
I turned the bleeder on valve 14 (the one that has no station wire in the box). Everything worked fine. Now I guess I need to hook a multimeter up to it and check to see if I get a reading when I kick zone 13 on.
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 08:24 PM
You turned the bleeder "on" or "off"? With an internal bleed you might not notice, although you should hear it open. I agree, go to the clock, set the meter on "ohms" and see what going on. I'm confused.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 08:27 PM
I unscrewed the bleeder and the valve kicked on. This on the the zone that has no wire connected in the box.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 08:34 PM
Turn 14 and 13 on manually at the same time and see if they are able to run together. if so wire them up
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 08:45 PM
Turn 14 and 13 on manually at the same time and see if they are able to run together. if so wire them up

Most clocks cannot fire multiple zones manually, I'm thinking a wire screw-up.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I'm lost now. How would I wire two up on a clock if I don't have a wire for the zone in the box.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm lost now. How would I wire two up on a clock if I don't have a wire for the zone in the box.
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wire 1 wire from each solenoid to the zone wire and the other wires to the common.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 09:08 PM
Most clocks cannot fire multiple zones manually, I'm thinking a wire screw-up.

you miss-read boss. i was telling him to tie the 2 valves together but only after seeing if the hydraulics support coupling
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weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 09:10 PM
Okay, I got that but what about the 50ft of concrete in between the controller and the valves. Do I just find a sleeve and try to pull wire all the way across?
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 09:14 PM
Okay, I got that but what about the 50ft of concrete in between the controller and the valves. Do I just find a sleeve and try to pull wire all the way across?

Not yet, Jr. Do you have a drip or low-flow zone you could tie-into? Whenever I see a non-connected stripped wire in a v.b. on a cold call, I get the hebies.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 09:17 PM
No drip zones. All sprays or rotors.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Okay, I got that but what about the 50ft of concrete in between the controller and the valves. Do I just find a sleeve and try to pull wire all the way across?
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are you saying that 13 and 14 are in separate boxes?
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 09:28 PM
O.K, have you tried to wire the loose one into the valve and prove it from the clock? You've got to know those wires and get 24 volts in the field, first. A remote is really handy in these situations.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 09:28 PM
No, there is only one controller. There is no wire for 14.
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 09:33 PM
No, there is only one controller. There is no wire for 14.

What happens if you switch the wire from 13 to 14?

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 09:58 PM
I haven't tried that yet but good idea. If they are wired together shouldn't 13 still come on.
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Mike Leary
07-08-2012, 10:09 PM
I haven't tried that yet but good idea. If they are wired together shouldn't 13 still come on.

The trouble with the internet, is none of us are on site, and cannot, even with pics, troubleshoot what appears to be a installer screw-up. Let us know how it works out.

weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Yes I agree. Ill hook 13 on 14 and see what happens. Then go from there.
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1idejim
07-08-2012, 11:50 PM
Yes I agree. Ill hook 13 on 14 and see what happens. Then go from there.
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wire 13 and 14 together if they are in the same valve box
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weed wacker 2
07-08-2012, 11:58 PM
wire 13 and 14 together if they are in the same valve box
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They are in isolated boxes.
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1idejim
07-09-2012, 12:42 AM
They are in isolated boxes.
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how far apart?
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Duekster
07-09-2012, 08:37 AM
You can run a wire to the closest valve(s) or piggy back or both.

weed wacker 2
07-09-2012, 09:18 AM
They are 60-75ft apart.
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Kiril
07-09-2012, 10:30 AM
This thread is too confusing .... so I will just throw out .... doubler.

1idejim
07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
This thread is too confusing .... so I will just throw out .... doubler.

TBOS my friend
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Kiril
07-09-2012, 12:40 PM
TBOS my friend

Can't keep track .... and don't care or have the time to decipher .... wire to the valve .... no wire to the valve .... wire to one valve .... then to another valve ... only one wire at the controller .... :dizzy: Have fun in the heat. :waving:

Mike Leary
07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
Can't keep track .... and don't care or have the time to decipher .... wire to the valve .... no wire to the valve .... wire to one valve .... then to another valve ... only one wire at the controller .... :dizzy: Have fun in the heat. :waving:

Double ditto, it hurts my head.

weed wacker 2
07-09-2012, 01:19 PM
Sorry guys
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Duekster
07-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Sorry guys
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Basically you do not have circuits to all valves and you have to figure out the best way to do it.

Double up between valves, run new wires or both.

Duekster
07-09-2012, 08:17 PM
BTW. Running new wire is not that hard.

weed wacker 2
07-10-2012, 11:36 PM
Everything is fixed and working properly.
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mitchgo
07-11-2012, 02:22 AM
This thread is too confusing .... so I will just throw out .... doubler.

A couple weeks ago I came across my 2nd doubler experience ever. Of course this system had 6 effin doublers on a 25 zone system not labeled. 4 of them were her garden which required vastly different programming schedules to it's counterpart zone

Afer this I have decided that this product is one of the most hack solutions for any kind of wiring issue out there.

Resolving the issue.. ..Add a zone ....and the Tek13 splittler is by far way better then the doubler

Kiril
07-11-2012, 10:01 AM
A couple weeks ago I came across my 2nd doubler experience ever. Of course this system had 6 effin doublers on a 25 zone system not labeled. 4 of them were her garden which required vastly different programming schedules to it's counterpart zone

Afer this I have decided that this product is one of the most hack solutions for any kind of wiring issue out there.

Resolving the issue.. ..Add a zone ....and the Tek13 splittler is by far way better then the doubler

Mitch .... I use doubler as a generic expression for using 1 wire as 2 .... i.e. doubling the wire count. I don't use the "Doubler" product, never have, but I have used the add-a-zone on rare occasions where running new wire was out of the question.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-11-2012, 11:25 AM
A couple weeks ago I came across my 2nd doubler experience ever. Of course this system had 6 effin doublers on a 25 zone system not labeled. 4 of them were her garden which required vastly different programming schedules to it's counterpart zone

Afer this I have decided that this product is one of the most hack solutions for any kind of wiring issue out there.

Resolving the issue.. ..Add a zone ....and the Tek13 splittler is by far way better then the doubler

Who makes the tek 13 splitter? Did a search and came up with zilch.