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View Full Version : Looking for paver stone lights


Zohan
07-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Something like this
http://www.cambridgepavers.com/cfiles/products_ftouches_paverlights.cfm

Perferably in an LED version.....

Anyone use or have experience with paver lights?
I don't particulary like them but client is adament on using them.....

Lite4
07-14-2012, 08:26 PM
I've used evening stars and In-lite micro lights for hard scape when needed.
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Classic Lighting
07-14-2012, 10:31 PM
I am unimpressed with http://sek.us.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=60 . I did a retrofit project that had Kerr in the driveway last winter. Broken caps from the weight of vehicles and moisture intursion issues resulted in corroded sockets. Therefore, it is not a quality product that I would install.
In my opinion, I'm not comfortable with installing fixtures in a driveway. Vehicle traffic, snowplows, pressure washers, and oils make a driveway a difficult place to install trustworthy fixtures.

S&MLL
07-15-2012, 12:42 AM
Dont like lights in pavers either because i think it looks like an airport but i use a coppermoon cm390 core drilled. 4.5" bit and you are good to go.


Plows are no problem as fixture sits flush
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Zohan
07-15-2012, 10:31 AM
The paver stones will sit on top of a concrete base. there will be approx. 22, and would rather not have to core out, that would increase labor and already borderline with clients budget. I am hoping for something like the pre-formed rectangle that i can leave for the masonry crew and show them where they need to go and have them lay them in while they lay in paver stones.
Client is using cambridge and awaiting him to tell me which model.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-15-2012, 12:10 PM
There are a lot of different paver style lights on the market. I would never install any of them myself. Forget about the horrible effect they produce (alien landing strip effect) and just look at the fixture build quality. None of them are designed to stand the test of time. They break, crack, seals fail, sockets and connections fail, lenses yellow, etc.

I would be guiding the client away from this completely. If there is no budget to do the job well / right, then there is no point in doing it poorly. Do you really want your name associated with a poor performing and visually distracting job?

Short term pain for long term pain... its a loose loose proposition.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-15-2012, 12:24 PM
Of course I mean to say (spell)... lose, lose propostion.

Zohan
07-15-2012, 12:27 PM
There are a lot of different paver style lights on the market. I would never install any of them myself. Forget about the horrible effect they produce (alien landing strip effect) and just look at the fixture build quality. None of them are designed to stand the test of time. They break, crack, seals fail, sockets and connections fail, lenses yellow, etc.

I would be guiding the client away from this completely. If there is no budget to do the job well / right, then there is no point in doing it poorly. Do you really want your name associated with a poor performing and visually distracting job?

Short term pain for long term pain... its a loose loose proposition.

Yes i know all this, and tried to sway potential client.
This is what he wants. I have bills to pay. End of story.
As for putting my name to it, I will do the best possible job I can do, as usual. I will not guarantee the paver lights for more than 1 year, where my other usual fixtures will be warranted much longer. In the end client will be happy he has what he wants. He will recc. me. I at least talked him out of as many lights he originally wanted, and will stagger the lights both sides of walkways. Around a patio the lights will be spaced at least 10'. He wanted same lights on steps that has 5 landings and also on front door steps, I talked him out of that and steps will get my usual hardscape/step lights. Also talked him into highlighting his address plaque and 2 trees to give some distraction away from paver lights.
All in all even though I dont like paver lights I think it will look good and client will be happy. I am not going to be a prima-donna and say "if you dont do it my way i'm not doing it"
It's his money and as long as I give him a quality installation he will be happy.

Zohan
07-15-2012, 12:28 PM
Of course I mean to say (spell)... lose, lose propostion.

Understood :)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-15-2012, 12:38 PM
I understand your position completely. I was just offering my advice gained over 14 years in this biz. Just remember, the client may be happy initially, but when those things start to fail (and they will) he will probably include you when he tells others; "Oh that low voltage lighting stuff is all crap! I spent a ton of money on mine and it all failed. I wish I never hired that guy either cause he says the only way to fix it is re-install more of the same." It is amazing how quickly dis-satisfied clients will forget that you told them so, and associate you with their lack of satisfaction.

There are times, and jobs, when it is better to simply say that we advise against this type of installation and we do not do this type of work and move along. It has nothing to do with being a prima donna and everything to do with working with integrity and being professional.

best of luck.

Zohan
07-15-2012, 02:18 PM
I get what you are saying. Thanks.
I also have been a contractor for a long time, 20 years. Not once have i had a client mad at me or say anythng negative, as long as i have made them understand all the negative potential beforehand, in a situation like this. Not to say this will never happen, because i cant predict the future, just as i cant say this WILL happen as you are saying because again, i cant predict the future. What i can do is get the point across to the client and have everything in contract to cover my ass, do a quality job and have a happy client. I am in no way concerned or ready to run from this project. Thats my opinion, but i respect yours as well, thanks.....

Lite4
07-15-2012, 08:47 PM
Zohan, I agree with what the others here have stated. The edge or "run way" light look is not favorable. However, I have come across situations where they were necessary and served the purpose well. Case in point; I have a client from an install 4 years ago. He was sick and tired of all his drunk friends leaving his house and driving off the driveway and running all over his grass. There were no flower beds next to this driveway and we needed a solution to mark out the edges of the driveway so his guests could see the edges, that even in their drunken state, they could still negotiate their way out without putting track marks in his grass. The solution was about 30 evening star lights that we core drilled into the edges of the driveway. The homeowner agreed that the runway look was not going to be good, so I proposed putting the driveway marker lights on a motion sensor. There are two motion sensors, one at the entryway of the driveway and one pointing at his garage doors. I used the ABT motion sensors and they only stay on 5 minutes once activated, (just long enough to get everyone out of the driveway and then they shut off). They have been durable and I have yet to replace a lamp in any of them. It was a good solution to this unique problem. Now on the edge of a patio- well, probably not a great look but I understand needed to close work. Do what you have to and move on.

Zohan
07-15-2012, 09:40 PM
Thanks tim. Good idea with the motion sensor. The difference in my situation is the client actually wants those fixtures. He has a patio in back and there is now way to put any other type of fixture as the patio is also a retaining wall that drops off the whole rear side of patio. The way the guy is doing things is kinda ass backwards, and the paver lights fight right in with his motif.
I have never core drilled a paving stone, so i have some questions.
1. Is it difficult, and what bit do i need and what king of drill can it be used in?
2. When the paving stone is to be layed on a base of concrete where do you run the wire?
3. Any other tips?

Thanks

AztlanLC
07-17-2012, 03:36 AM
I have a dozen or so of those lights I can sell to you tey are brand new neer installed, half te price

Zohan
07-17-2012, 07:49 AM
I think this project is done, client is not responding to my emails at this point

S&MLL
07-17-2012, 09:02 PM
Thanks tim. Good idea with the motion sensor. The difference in my situation is the client actually wants those fixtures. He has a patio in back and there is now way to put any other type of fixture as the patio is also a retaining wall that drops off the whole rear side of patio. The way the guy is doing things is kinda ass backwards, and the paver lights fight right in with his motif.
I have never core drilled a paving stone, so i have some questions.
1. Is it difficult, and what bit do i need and what king of drill can it be used in?
2. When the paving stone is to be layed on a base of concrete where do you run the wire?
3. Any other tips?

Thanks



I'm not Tim but I can give you some tips. Ant/evening star uses a targa core setup... Not my favorite without a stand it gets tiring leaning over. I use a dd130 hilti on a rig. With water I can do a paver in about 45seconds. Once we drill our cores we lift up the line of pagers.use a demo saw and cut a groove for 12-2 wire to sitin. Put pacers back down and call a day. We also have a vacuum tool that lifts up the pavers.... Best 250 I ever spent IMHO. Like I said earlier I don't install "paver" lights. But we put a boat load of cm390s a year core drilled in

S&MLL
07-17-2012, 09:03 PM
If you check my Facebook page I think a have a whole album with install pics

Zohan
07-17-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm not Tim but I can give you some tips. Ant/evening star uses a targa core setup... Not my favorite without a stand it gets tiring leaning over. I use a dd130 hilti on a rig.

Thanks, but.....What?????

Zohan
07-17-2012, 09:08 PM
So this is what you use?
http://www.eveningstarlighting.com/products_paver_lights.htm

1. the pavers do not crack when drilling?
2. what connector do you use from light pigtail to the 12/2?
3. can you link me to the bit you use...i use a hitachi spline drill

cant find facebook page, send a link, thx

S&MLL
07-17-2012, 09:09 PM
I dont recommended a hammer drill for coring. Yes they sell the bits but the hammer function will be off anyway.

I use hilti ddb core bits.
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S&MLL
07-17-2012, 09:10 PM
And what i would do is drill through the concrete base. That way you can put your connection down there.
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Zohan
07-17-2012, 09:27 PM
Ahhhh....i see....thanks for the good info...
When u get a chance please link to those pics, thx

Zohan
07-17-2012, 09:44 PM
Ok, now im hooked. Im looking at these core drills and bits.
Do you run dry or wet?
I can get a bit set to use with my sds and spline drills which i already have ( i can turn off hammer function so they only drill)....
What is typical depth of bits for drilling paver stones?
Any other tips?
Pics?
Thanks

S&MLL
07-17-2012, 10:18 PM
Ok, now im hooked. Im looking at these core drills and bits.
Do you run dry or wet?
I can get a bit set to use with my sds and spline drills which i already have ( i can turn off hammer function so they only drill)....
What is typical depth of bits for drilling paver stones?
Any other tips?
Pics?
Thanks

I only run wet.... No reason to use up bits. I use 18 inch bits but that's because I also core holes in foundations for hvac ec's and plumbers.

Go on the aolp forum and find my post with the link to all the pics....

There is a website that sells adapters to use on Sds chucks to convert to universal core bit.... I would of done it because hilti bits are so expensive but now they retip my bits for 70dollars