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View Full Version : Trench or plow?


grassman177
07-19-2012, 02:30 PM
that is the question, how many here prefer trenching, or vibratory plow to install systems?

i know what i prefer, cuz it is much easier to install with less digging by hand, and that is trenching.

but, what are your guys opinions, or does it matter per job? weather?

consider all jobs have turf already......

Stuttering Stan
07-19-2012, 02:40 PM
I prefer the shovel.
Or you could use the search button as this topic comes up monthly.........

grassman177
07-19-2012, 03:15 PM
well thanks stan, but i dont usually get on this forum as much as i have of late. normally talking about apps or mowing

dont normally search, just like everyone else, keeping the forum moving, lol

grassman177
07-19-2012, 03:30 PM
really, i guess the question is......am i a hack for wanting to only trench>? in the end, the result is the same

Wet_Boots
07-19-2012, 03:40 PM
trenching comes off a poor second to pulling, when you compare side-to-side ~ the question is whether the clients have a chance to compare

grassman177
07-19-2012, 05:01 PM
thing is, there is no where near me either that carries a rentalble plow. no rental yards have that even as an attachment to use , yet alone an actual machine. so i dont have a choice really, but there is companies here that have their own plow. so, the choice is them or me, but lawns are easily repaired anyhow, and seems the ones getting the irrigation need the repair work anyhow and why they want irrigation now.

hmmm, we cant afford to buy one at this time, as install work is not what i do all the time, but do like it. I have in the past payed for someone to plow all the pipes for me, and that worked pretty well. we came in and joined pipes, added heads, valves etc to complete the job.

thing is, all the digging to make connections sucks when you are dealing with rock hard dry ground. i figure, the less hand digging the better in that situation.

1idejim
07-19-2012, 05:05 PM
thing is, there is no where near me either that carries a rentalble plow. no rental yards have that even as an attachment to use , yet alone an actual machine. so i dont have a choice really, but there is companies here that have their own plow. so, the choice is them or me, but lawns are easily repaired anyhow, and seems the ones getting the irrigation need the repair work anyhow and why they want irrigation now.

hmmm, we cant afford to buy one at this time, as install work is not what i do all the time, but do like it. I have in the past payed for someone to plow all the pipes for me, and that worked pretty well. we came in and joined pipes, added heads, valves etc to complete the job.

thing is, all the digging to make connections sucks when you are dealing with rock hard dry ground. i figure, the less hand digging the better in that situation.

pretty much answers your own question :)

AI Inc
07-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Gotta soak em when pulling this time of yr.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-19-2012, 05:18 PM
trenching comes off a poor second to pulling, when you compare side-to-side ~ the question is whether the clients have a chance to compare

Huh? Poor second? I'm convinced most pullers stretch the truth about their depth.

1idejim
07-19-2012, 05:40 PM
I'm convinced most pullers stretch the truth about their depth.

and prolly about their length too :laugh:

irritation
07-19-2012, 05:58 PM
These conditions are not good for plowing, I would probably crack windows and foundations. Trenching is not much better though.It's like lowering the boom on concrete. Glad I quit installing.

greenmonster304
07-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Huh? Poor second? I'm convinced most pullers stretch the truth about their depth.

What do you mean? What depth did you trench at?
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Wet_Boots
07-19-2012, 06:33 PM
Desired pipe depth was always something deep enough to connect heads via cut-off riser to a saddle tee. Modern technology has made that passe, now that there is marlex and funny pipe.

At its best, a plowed job is so unobtrusive, that customers can't see where the pipe was installed, after all the heads are in place.

jbell36
07-19-2012, 06:35 PM
grassman, in our area most pull...when i first got into it this was my main question...the answers that i got were if it is a fairly nice established yard, then pull it, if you know you are going to run into a lot of rock then trench it, and if it is new construction before the sod then it's up to you...we are currently trenching a yard for this very reason, West Lawrence is known for rock, i mean ****, the retaining walls in every front yard is made from what came out of their lot...the most popular is the ditch witch 410 i believe it is, i know of 3 other companies that have one...i personally think i am going to go with a dingo that can handle multiple attachments for landscaping and irrigation, it can pull or trench...

pulling is what you are looking for, trust me...very few trench around here anymore

Wet_Boots
07-19-2012, 06:46 PM
You might prefer the dedicated machine, if the terrain is tough. The weight is in the right places, and the machine is strong where it has to be.

DEPENDABLE LANDSCAPING
07-19-2012, 07:46 PM
We pull our pipe.
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FIMCO-MEISTER
07-19-2012, 10:24 PM
What do you mean? What depth did you trench at?
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Depends on the number of pipes. Minimum is 8".

I just know how it goes. If a guy can raise the puller an 1" or 2 and speed up the job he'll do it. Nobody will know otherwise. Ask a puller though and it will be two inches deeper than he actually put it. Does it matter? I guess not if it gets blown out and they don't aerify. If there is a way to save time and boost profit and it doesn't hurt the quality of the end results the customer expects then no real harm done.

1idejim
07-19-2012, 10:32 PM
What do you mean? What depth did you trench at?
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depth and cover are 2 different things, 18" cover for mains and 12" cover for lats. swing pipe makes up the difference.

no problems aerating

irritation
07-19-2012, 10:44 PM
no problems aerating

I would think not. That's too deep. 10" is fine with me and no pipes in the same trench.

muddywater
07-19-2012, 10:58 PM
You might prefer the dedicated machine, if the terrain is tough. The weight is in the right places, and the machine is strong where it has to be.

From my research a track mini skid is supposed to be better at pulling pipe than a 410.

1idejim
07-19-2012, 11:08 PM
I would think not. That's too deep. 10" is fine with me and no pipes in the same trench.

everybody here says the main is fine but i should raise the lats to 6-8".

after all the plumbing i have done in pools and such, i'd rather have them deeper.

swing pipe is cheap.

GreenI.A.
07-19-2012, 11:23 PM
I get my pipe in at least 8" deep. But my girlfriend would probably say its less than that.

We pull pretty much everything unless it is extremely rocky and new construction before the sod is laid or Hydrosprayed. The normal practice we do on existing lawns is to lift up the sod in a square where all heads and connections will be. We then dig the holes with a one man auger, on harder ground we use the auger on the dingo. We then simply pull all of the pipe from hole to hole with no problems. The only digging we have to do is for the valve boxes, if the ground is hard we break it up with the dingo auger. Once all connections are made we simply back fill the holes dug for the heads, connections, and boxes. Drive the dingo over the slight mound formed from pulling and place the lifted pieces of sod back down around the heads. Once we are done there is very little evidence we were there, usually the most evidence visible is some dirt that might be near the top of the grass where we had to dig for the heads. We do so little digging that a 3 man crew could probably go to an install with only one trench shovel and one spade and not be slowed down at all.

Wet_Boots
07-19-2012, 11:34 PM
Nobody marks out a system before they aerate, in my experience. It's always feigned astonishment that heads were broken or pipes got pierced. :rolleyes:

irritation
07-19-2012, 11:39 PM
From my research a track mini skid is supposed to be better at pulling pipe than a 410.

The only reason I could see if you used it for more than pulling pipe.

GreenI.A.
07-19-2012, 11:58 PM
From my research a track mini skid is supposed to be better at pulling pipe than a 410.

The only reason I could see if you used it for more than pulling pipe.

I used a buddy's 410 a few times before I had my dingo. If I could double my install biz I would get one for my self. In the meantime the versatility of the Dingo being able to be moved around from irrigation to masonry work to prepping small lawns to doing landscape installs in tight areas is to important.

jbell36
07-20-2012, 01:37 AM
I would think not. That's too deep. 10" is fine with me and no pipes in the same trench.

i agree, 10" is about right...i shoot for 12 and usually end up with 10...besides, don't you want to be at the depth of your valve boxes?...and do you mean 10" is fine for one pipe only? or do you mean you never put two pipes in the same trench period?

aeration is definitely something to keep in mind...the deepest is usually 4", but i don't know why anyone would put a system in that shallow...we are 8" in some places on our current install but that's as shallow as it gets...

Kiril
07-20-2012, 09:59 AM
depth and cover are 2 different things, 18" cover for mains and 12" cover for lats. swing pipe makes up the difference.

no problems aerating

....... Or tilling

Wet_Boots
07-20-2012, 10:07 AM
I work on a lot of soil that needs no aerating, so it is an eternal surprise when some gullible homeowner has aeration done, improving the soil not at all.

Kiril
07-20-2012, 10:09 AM
I work on a lot of soil that needs no aerating, so it is an eternal surprise when some gullible homeowner has aeration done, improving the soil not at all.

And you have determined this how?

Wet_Boots
07-20-2012, 10:15 AM
one word - moraine

grassman177
07-20-2012, 10:33 AM
I am worried now renting a mini tracked dingo trencher of it bouncing off instead of digging due to lack of weight. I have never used one, do I dont know.

I appreciate all the info from u seasoned installers as we are mainly maint and repair.
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Wet_Boots
07-20-2012, 10:55 AM
If you are renting, why not a dedicated heavyweight machine?

jbell36
07-20-2012, 11:26 AM
ralph, i just rented the dedicated tracked dingo trencher, did a fairly large lawn...not a single problem, that is one bad ass machine, very maneuverable and easy to use...don't hesitate, rent it, you will understand

we rented this machine because of the yard, FULL of rock...

grassman177
07-20-2012, 12:49 PM
This is a small odd shaped turf area, why I wanted the smaller unit
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CAPT Stream Rotar
07-20-2012, 09:18 PM
I love the 4X10 but its to big..

on a large job she is a work horse.

AI Inc
07-21-2012, 06:19 AM
I love the 4X10 but its to big..

on a large job she is a work horse.

Yep , can pulkl thru a forest with one of those but for the average resi a 255 is the nuts.