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meets1
07-19-2012, 08:20 PM
We just finished a big paver project, walls, steps, etc. Mason walked over from a new house next door and we started chatting about business hiden cost etc. He asked about the blades we were using and how we charge for the use of saw and blades. I have to admit he kinda got me on that one. Maybe that was one of those hidden cost for us. I usually charge per sq ft and consider the project (hand digging, buried linies, ect and price it out) The mason told me he charges different amounts per job that he does - some he cuts all day, others just finshing cut to wrap the job up.

So how long does a blade last for you guys. Do you charge out for that blade/saw combo, and how expensive are those blades your using.

DEPENDABLE LANDSCAPING
07-19-2012, 08:53 PM
We are like you. We price by the sq. Ft. And include those costs in our price. Should we? Good question, based on materials and cutting should we be itemizing additional tbings,?
Makes me think. Thanks.
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xtreem3d
07-19-2012, 09:04 PM
I don't know how long ours are lasting but the ones we buy are around 200.00. Something to possibly consider....after alot of cutting on a job we did I went to get an extra blade for the hand held saw 9took the table saw blade with me)and the guy asked if I would want the one I brought with me sharpened. Kind of suprised me with that but I let him sharpen it and it was really alomost better than new...I was very impressed by having it re-sharpened,
Steve

jwilkers2vt
07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
Personally, I charge in my prices the "hours" labor I think that it will take to cut what is needed. Mostly based on previous numbers/experience. The price of our saw/blades is included in our project overhead. Most of the blades I have bought last about 500-1000 ft. Depending on how many binds my guys put them in. At $200 a blade that is somewhere between $.20-.40 per linear foot cut. It can add up if you are cutting a soldier course on a 50 ft walk, that is 100 ft of cutting, or $20-$40. It adds up, but to itemize it is a little cumbersome. Project overhead is just easier as a % of total bid price for me.

Joe

DVS Hardscaper
07-19-2012, 11:23 PM
First of all - charging by the square foot to install pavers is the deadliest mistake you can make. No two properties are the same. Some have steep slopes. Some have nowhere to stage materials. Some are wide open easy access. Some have driveways you need to protect. I could go on and on. You jus never know....one day there may be an industry forum that is focused on topics like this :)

As far as diamond blade cost recovery. Yes, I DO factor in the cost of diamond blades on an individual job basis. I have "Diamond Blade" listed as a line item on my job cost sheet. it's NOT difficult.

Those of you that are buying $200 blades - you can STOP wasting your money. STOP NOW.

Effective immediately - do NOT pay any more than $85 to $90 for a 14-inch blade.

I used to buy the $200 blades for about 10 years.

The recession came and I was forced to buy the cheaper cost blades. (the recession has taught me ALOT about business and life)

We saw NO difference in the cut between a $200 blade and an $80 blade.

Here is an example:

Say a $200 blade will cut 400 linear feet of pavers (400 LF is not an actual number, it's used only as an example).

Ok, well I ASSURE you that ONE cheap $80 blade will cut at least 70% of what a $200 blade will cut.

400 x 70% = 280 linear feet

280 LF X 2 (2 $80 blades) = 560 linear feet.

So for $200 you're getting 400 linear feet.

And for $160 (2 cheap blades) you're getting 560 linear feet. That's 160 additional feet and you're gaining that with $40 less!

My diamond blade rep that I used to buy $200 blades from called to see if I needed blades. I had been ignoring his calls. So finally I talked to him and I said look "I can buy (2) $80 blades from our local supplier and get more linear footage out of them than I can with one of your $200 blades".

The sales rep was straight forward with me. He said "you are 100% correct, you do not need a $200 blade". (but he then tried to sell me $80 blades!)

Folks, I'm cocky. I'm arrogant. And I'm confident. People have cursed me out on this forum for me being me.

Key to success is: You have to be confident. If you have no self confidence - you can't expect your clients to have confidence in you. But here is another trait I have: I'm a very quiet person. I'm a thinker. And I think and I think, and I think. I observe, and I observe, and I observe. I'm quiet because my mind is processing. If anyone doubts my theory on diamond blades - then I challange you to prove me wrong! We been buying $80 blades for almost 4 years now, and I have NO intentions of ever going back to the $200 blades.



,





.

zedosix
07-19-2012, 11:30 PM
I just bought three last month and it cost me 1,100 dollars. They last close to a year. I find that you do get what you pay for.The ones that I buy are rated 4 and 5 diamond. I think the difference between a 2 diamond and a 4 or 5 is huge. Maybe Andrew is comparing the difference between a 2 and a three?

DVS Hardscaper
07-19-2012, 11:42 PM
I just bought three last month and it cost me 1,100 dollars. They last close to a year. I find that you do get what you pay for.The ones that I buy are rated 4 and 5 diamond. I think the difference between a 2 diamond and a 4 or 5 is huge. Maybe Andrew is comparing the difference between a 2 and a three?

I'm not concerned with comparing diamonds for cryin out loud. I'm looking at dollars!

It's human nature to believe in what you invest. No one wants to be a victim of being taken for a ride. It's embarassing. Especially when we're super duper looper bad A$$ hardscapers.

But when it comes to blades - you do not get what you pay for :)

GreenI.A.
07-20-2012, 12:47 AM
I have a $$ figure I use per foot of perimeter edge, I do use this figure where are needed and don't use it when they are not needed (such as a straight walkway that uses all full pavers with very little needed cuts). I then have a figure added in for curved borders in which all the pavers for the soldier course need to be cut. All of this is figured in to my job cost which is used to build my proposal.

Krafty
07-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Ditto on the cheaply blades we started using them over a year ago and have seen no difference in how long they last. I have bought them as cheap as $65.00. We also charge by the estimated liner ft of cuts per job.

DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2012, 07:07 AM
The real factor isn't in blades it's in pavers. Techo bloc is a denser paver. They are harder to cut.


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Krafty
07-20-2012, 07:43 AM
The real factor isn't in blades it's in pavers. Techo bloc is a denser paver. They are harder to cut.


.
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Well I could throw that factor in to estimating as well, maybe even throw in who is cutting, how deep they typically cut, barometric pressure, and wind age, but I do value my free time lol...

DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Well I could throw that factor in to estimating as well, maybe even throw in who is cutting, how deep they typically cut, barometric pressure, and wind age, but I do value my free time lol...

Career success is what makes us fortunate to be able to enjoy "free time".

Charging for blade consumption is easy. No different than estimating the cost of grass seed needed for turf restoration at the end of a job. only takes about 3 seconds, literally. Everyone should already have "Diamond Blade" as a line item on their job cost sheet. This is something that computers make life easy for us.

I do factor in that Techo pavers will eat more blade. If it's a large job, with a lot of linear feet of cutting I may throw in the cost of an entire blade so we're covered.

If you've ever had repair work done to your car you will see on the bill that the shop charged you a percentage of the bill to cover shop expenses. Such as carb cleaner, brake cleaner, penetrating fliud, shop rags, etc.

When I had the A/C unit replaced at another house the repair guy counted exactly how many wire connectors, how much wire, etc. he used and it was itemized on the bill.

When the exaust manifold on our dump truck was replaced some bolts were rusted and broke - the truck repair facility charged me for a full can of penetrating fluid for soaking the bolts.

I even have a line item charge for marking paint. Small jobs are factored for half a can at $6.50 / can. Large jobs are factored for 1, sometimes 2 cans, at $6.50 / can.

Folk - the profit margins for hardscaping are minimal. You can not give things away, you must charge for them, they're costing you money. If you wanna make a profit at hardscapes - you gotta recover all your costs. Blade use is just one item contractors neglect. FActor in all the other things people leave out and it adds up. I could write all afternoon about this.

whiffyspark
07-20-2012, 01:30 PM
DVS did you get my pm? Id like to talk to you
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DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2012, 01:39 PM
DVS did you get my pm? Id like to talk to you
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Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know it was there. When logging in with a smart phone you don't have the thing at the top of the screen that tells you there are PMs. I'll heck it later this evening.
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whiffyspark
07-20-2012, 01:44 PM
No worries. Speaking of diamond blades what saw do you guys prefer ? I use a husky but its kicky
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meets1
07-20-2012, 02:27 PM
I agree with footage price as well. Went and looked at a walkway around house, to deck, off deck back to garage door. Easy little walk way but the slopes, the grade, I totld the couple this cost plus type of job. As far as blades - I started with $200+ blades with the thinking these are what other are using, I gotta have them too but then on a whim I was forced to buy a cheap blade $75 i think, I have not looked back since. But as effecient as I think I am with these bids, estimates, etc blades never really crossed my mine to include in a take off list.

Krafty
07-20-2012, 03:18 PM
Career success is what makes us fortunate to be able to enjoy "free time".

I totally agree with this, if I/you dont cover your cost you don't make a profit. What I was getting at was you cover your cost, but at some point it becomes more profitable to generalize some (keyword some) of your cost.

For instance DVS are you charging more for your quarry rock right now?? (not sure where you are located) here in the midwest we are in a bad drought right now... Bad drought means the quarry is watering the piss out of rock to keep the dust down, essientally you are paying for water... Are you factoring in that cost??

How about employee weight and extra water your guys take to the jobsite in this heat, cost more in gas for more weight. Are you factoring in that cost??

No probably not, and I too could give you examples all afternoon of cost that you more then likely do not have a "line item" for.

Back to the original topic. Yes we most definetly factor in cost for diamond blades, but how you cost it into a job can only be determined by you the business owner. Some go to the nats A** and others like us have found it best to average our cost of liner ft cut per month by the amount of diamond blades we go through per month.:drinkup:

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-20-2012, 06:45 PM
Krafty and Extreme check into the $65 blades at Equip rental in St. Charles. They seem to be lasting for a long time. Problem is they cut slower when hot, but have been lasting for awhile.

DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2012, 07:09 PM
A more expensive blade probably is better.

BUT.......is it worth the outrageous cost????

I became buddies with a diamond blade sales rep, when he quite the company he worked for he told me that the mark up on the blades was through the roof.

Maybe if the $225 blades were sold for $150 to $160 I would use them. But $200 or more and it's not happening. You priced yourself out of a sale. Blade sellers lose. Local supplier wins.
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xtreem3d
07-20-2012, 08:56 PM
My best reason (maybe you guys won't think it's a good one) for buying a good quality diamond blade is because I have had a couple problems cutting through material and pushing the material probably harder than i should have only to start stalling the saw and wrecking the drive belts (MK gas saw).
With my good blades I really don't experience that any more. I don't know this for sure, maybe someone will , but I personally think the cheaper blades wobble like they aren't close to balanced
Some of his probably doesn't apply to the hand helds
Steve

Birchwood
07-20-2012, 09:28 PM
Career success is what makes us fortunate to be able to enjoy "free time".

Charging for blade consumption is easy. No different than estimating the cost of grass seed needed for turf restoration at the end of a job. only takes about 3 seconds, literally. Everyone should already have "Diamond Blade" as a line item on their job cost sheet. This is something that computers make life easy for us.

I do factor in that Techo pavers will eat more blade. If it's a large job, with a lot of linear feet of cutting I may throw in the cost of an entire blade so we're covered.

If you've ever had repair work done to your car you will see on the bill that the shop charged you a percentage of the bill to cover shop expenses. Such as carb cleaner, brake cleaner, penetrating fliud, shop rags, etc.

When I had the A/C unit replaced at another house the repair guy counted exactly how many wire connectors, how much wire, etc. he used and it was itemized on the bill.

When the exaust manifold on our dump truck was replaced some bolts were rusted and broke - the truck repair facility charged me for a full can of penetrating fluid for soaking the bolts.

I even have a line item charge for marking paint. Small jobs are factored for half a can at $6.50 / can. Large jobs are factored for 1, sometimes 2 cans, at $6.50 / can.

Folk - the profit margins for hardscaping are minimal. You can not give things away, you must charge for them, they're costing you money. If you wanna make a profit at hardscapes - you gotta recover all your costs. Blade use is just one item contractors neglect. FActor in all the other things people leave out and it adds up. I could write all afternoon about this.

Dvs

When you line item all your materials are you including this in your contact? And are are showing a list price for all these items or one lump sum. I'm curious, because it sounds like a great great way to show the customer what is involved. I break it down alittle but don't go into depth of how many nails, tons of gravel of sand, but I do for my own purposes. But when it comes to the proposal it is just on price.

DVS Hardscaper
07-21-2012, 02:22 PM
Dvs

When you line item all your materials are you including this in your contact? And are are showing a list price for all these items or one lump sum. I'm curious, because it sounds like a great great way to show the customer what is involved. I break it down alittle but don't go into depth of how many nails, tons of gravel of sand, but I do for my own purposes. But when it comes to the proposal it is just on price.


No Stevie, NO! I don't share all the cost breakdowns with the client :hammerhead:

That's internal information only! :)

If they know their project cost included $942 for travel time, or that I'm charging them for a can of marking paint - they would never pay someone to do the project!

I do however have a section of my proposal that says "this proposal is based on contractor supplying and installing the following quantities of materials, any additional materials will involve additional fees: 362 SF Holland Stone pavers, 152 SF Celtik Wal, 54 linear feet Celtik Wall caps, 24 tons of CR8, and 8 cu yds of screened top soil".

But on the proposal I do not break down edge restraint, fabric, spikes, adhesive, bedding sand, poly sand, marking paint, porta pot rental, fuel, etc.

Clients makes changes from time to time. And sometimes some people do not want to pay for the changes. Well, when changes are made - it usually entails the need for more materials.

Last summer we did a circular patio with a block wall holding up the patio. It was a perfect circle. The guy was working me on price during the negotiation period. So I calculated to the exact sq ft the materials needed. And I mean exact. So we did the job, perfect circle as on the design, and so forth. Client decides he wants to move the patio edge about 18-inches. This not only distorted our perfect circular patio and made it egg shaped - but it also required additional wall block and caps.

The client argued with me for 30 minutes (no exageration) because he did not want to pay for HIS changes. I said "look, the contract lists this quantity of material and we used every bit of it, we do not have one single block left over, the only way we will make this change is if you pay for the materials". He paid for the materials. But it got very heated in getting him to.

So no, you don't wanna share all your expenses with your customers. Toyota does not break down all the costs affiliated with building a car on the invoice.

But you should list quantities as I exampled above. So many reasons why you should do so, it would take me forever to go over all of them. I like 99% of my customers, but there are a few out there that will try to squeeze the most out of a contractor that they can and you need to be prepared for them.


.

zedosix
07-21-2012, 03:00 PM
I give my clients a very basic contract, just stating what the job is ex: back patio with 4 level steps and seat wall etc but I also attach a scaled drawing to the contract and state as per drawing #2034 for example. I find that the more info you give them the more they want, and they want to hold you to it as well. What if you tell them "install 24 tonnes granular" and you only install 18, someone will be looking for a rebate. I would rather spend my time at the cottage then making up fancy contracts! Too each his own I guess.
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8inchBlock
07-22-2012, 12:14 AM
Those of you that are buying $200 blades - you can STOP wasting your money. STOP NOW.


,





.

Sorry but this advice is garbage and obviously only relevant to your specific company not the industry as a whole. Having ripped through thousands of ln ft of stone a higher quality blade will last longer, be faster, and reduce expenses. If you only are cutting for a half dozen patios/walls per season- then sure- use $65 home depot blades. I can guarantee you quarries aren't using "el cheapo blades" and there is a good reason for it.

DVS Hardscaper
07-22-2012, 11:58 AM
Sorry but this advice is garbage and obviously only relevant to your specific company not the industry as a whole. Having ripped through thousands of ln ft of stone a higher quality blade will last longer, be faster, and reduce expenses. If you only are cutting for a half dozen patios/walls per season- then sure- use $65 home depot blades. I can guarantee you quarries aren't using "el cheapo blades" and there is a good reason for it.


Are you for real?

Have you ever used an "el cheapo" blade?

We have :) My statements are from experience. Not theory :)

PS - quarries use crushers.

.
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DVS Hardscaper
07-22-2012, 12:03 PM
I give my clients a very basic contract, just stating what the job is ex: back patio with 4 level steps and seat wall etc but I also attach a scaled drawing to the contract and state as per drawing #2034 for example. I find that the more info you give them the more they want, and they want to hold you to it as well. What if you tell them "install 24 tonnes granular" and you only install 18, someone will be looking for a rebate. I would rather spend my time at the cottage then making up fancy contracts! Too each his own I guess.
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Zedo - it's all in the wording. Phrases such as "up to 24 tons".

You're in Canada. We're in America. Different court systems. Contracts are just an important business tool as a cut off saw. Both enabling one to be fortunate enough to have a cottage.

Details are good. It establishes competency and professionalism.

.
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Birchwood
07-22-2012, 09:34 PM
No Stevie, NO! I don't share all the cost breakdowns with the client :hammerhead:

That's internal information only! :)

If they know their project cost included $942 for travel time, or that I'm charging them for a can of marking paint - they would never pay someone to do the project!

I do however have a section of my proposal that says "this proposal is based on contractor supplying and installing the following quantities of materials, any additional materials will involve additional fees: 362 SF Holland Stone pavers, 152 SF Celtik Wal, 54 linear feet Celtik Wall caps, 24 tons of CR8, and 8 cu yds of screened top soil".

But on the proposal I do not break down edge restraint, fabric, spikes, adhesive, bedding sand, poly sand, marking paint, porta pot rental, fuel, etc.

Clients makes changes from time to time. And sometimes some people do not want to pay for the changes. Well, when changes are made - it usually entails the need for more materials.

Last summer we did a circular patio with a block wall holding up the patio. It was a perfect circle. The guy was working me on price during the negotiation period. So I calculated to the exact sq ft the materials needed. And I mean exact. So we did the job, perfect circle as on the design, and so forth. Client decides he wants to move the patio edge about 18-inches. This not only distorted our perfect circular patio and made it egg shaped - but it also required additional wall block and caps.

The client argued with me for 30 minutes (no exageration) because he did not want to pay for HIS changes. I said "look, the contract lists this quantity of material and we used every bit of it, we do not have one single block left over, the only way we will make this change is if you pay for the materials". He paid for the materials. But it got very heated in getting him to.

So no, you don't wanna share all your expenses with your customers. Toyota does not break down all the costs affiliated with building a car on the invoice.

But you should list quantities as I exampled above. So many reasons why you should do so, it would take me forever to go over all of them. I like 99% of my customers, but there are a few out there that will try to squeeze the most out of a contractor that they can and you need to be prepared for them.


.

Thanks for the info, on a side note does anyone list sq footage on their contacts? Is it finished size or material sq ft?

We lost a job last year and this year because another guy is selling a larger sqft number at a smaller sqft price, in the end equal to our total price but we have a smaller finshed patio. Had a chance to look at the patio from a year ago and it must have been 100 sqft smaller. Either the guy is an idot and cant do math or he is pulling a fast one over these customers.

DVS Hardscaper
07-22-2012, 09:51 PM
My proposal is finished priced.

There is more to building a patio than dropping pavers on the ground.

You have down spouts to contend with. Turf restoration. Many times seat walls, retaining walls, etc.



.

White Gardens
07-22-2012, 10:32 PM
You guys are funny.

I've got about $350 dollars I've spent on blades, plus two saws in the past 7 years........

Wrap that around your noodle.


....

Birchwood
07-22-2012, 10:57 PM
The blades we use are around $100 a piece, I wouldn't want to use anything more expensive because we sometimes cut asphalt or cut up the old concrete and have hit rebar. We use around 4 a year.

Birchwood
07-22-2012, 10:59 PM
You guys are funny.

I've got about $350 dollars I've spent on blades, plus two saws in the past 7 years........

Wrap that around your noodle.


....

What kind of volume are you doing?

White Gardens
07-23-2012, 08:33 AM
What kind of volume are you doing?

Probably not nearly as much as a dedicated hardscaping company. ;) But I do enough. https://www.facebook.com/Whitegardens/photos

But I do a lot of stone cutting through the season, either on natural stone work, brick edging, a random patio or retaining wall, etc.... There has been a few instances, such as a custom fire pit made from natural stone where I spent half a day cutting blocks for it and the hand saw worked just fine.

I just been using cheap electric saws. Been through two maybe three 30 dollar saws in the past 7 years. Along with the 10-15 dollar diamond blades that you can buy for them. 90% of the time it gets the job done as the blades are just deep enough to get through a paver.

I also like a hand saw over a chop saw as I get far better control on my cuts.



......

AztlanLC
07-23-2012, 11:27 AM
Hand saws? really have u ever used a demo saw?
Do u have any idea how much lonrger it takes to cut a paver one vs the other?
As far as blades go I have mix feelings once I bough a brand new hilti demo saw and came with one original blade it last me about 2x times longer than the cheap blades so I bough the same one again (so I tough) but this time it lasted the same

DVS Hardscaper
07-23-2012, 01:05 PM
Our stone mason uses a hand saw. Really and truly is more productive. He can sit right where he is working and cut.

So many ways to do things. You can not be old and set in your ways like Zedo. Gotta have an open mind.
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big daddy b
07-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Where I work the blades we get I believe run about $60.00 per diamond blade, but we buy them in mass quantities and probably go through a dozen or more per year.
As you can imagine, we cut...A LOT.
Once in a great while on a big commercial job we'll have two demo saws and a table saw running all day long.
As far as the quality of the blades we use, I think they are pretty decent. No complaints from me over a $60.00 blade.

zedosix
07-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Our stone mason uses a hand saw. Really and truly is more productive. He can sit right where he is working and cut.

So many ways to do things. You can not be old and set in your ways like Zedo. Gotta have an open mind.
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My mind is always open and one thing I learned a long time ago Andrew is you get what you pay for. Cheap blades = longer cutting, more changing. Its just a fact, I chuckle when people think they are getting a deal.

These guys are all the same, they buy cheap blades, they buy cheap fuel, they buy cheap cars, trucks, no name label food, cheap jeans, shoes etc. And as this thread has proven... they still think they are better off doing it, they've completely convinced themselves that they are saving money. :hammerhead: You're only fooling yourself not this "oldtimer" :)

DVS Hardscaper
07-23-2012, 07:25 PM
My mind is always open and one thing I learned a long time ago Andrew is you get what you pay for. Cheap blades = longer cutting, more changing. Its just a fact, I chuckle when people think they are getting a deal.

These guys are all the same, they buy cheap blades, they buy cheap fuel, they buy cheap cars, trucks, no name label food, cheap jeans, shoes etc. And as this thread has proven... they still think they are better off doing it, they've completely convinced themselves that they are saving money. :hammerhead: You're only fooling yourself not this "oldtimer" :)

More changing? One bolt! Shoe-wee, that's a task isn't it!!! LOL

Have you ever used anything other than the over priced blades you get suckered into buying?

.
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zedosix
07-23-2012, 07:27 PM
More changing? One bolt! Shew, that's a task isn't it!!! LOL

Have you ever used anything other than the over priced blades you get suckered into buying?

.
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I have and thats why I know. More changing would include a drive to the brickyard or "Home depot" in your case.

White Gardens
07-23-2012, 07:46 PM
Hand saws? really have u ever used a demo saw?
Do u have any idea how much lonrger it takes to cut a paver one vs the other?


Yep, I rent a chop saw whenever I need to, and that has been three times in 7 years.

Until the day comes where I need to use a demo saw on a regular basis, and the time saving to go rent one, versus having one on hand comes into play, then I'll drop the coin and get one.

The way I look at it, in 7 years I'm still 500-700 bucks short of having to justify buying a demo saw.

Our stone mason uses a hand saw. Really and truly is more productive. He can sit right where he is working and cut.



And that's how I feel. I'm at least as productive or a shade under with a hand saw over a demo saw.

But, I will agree, to all you guys doing high volume paver work, A demo saw is probably the way to go.

....

AztlanLC
07-23-2012, 09:59 PM
So many ways to do things. You can not be old and set in your ways like Zedo. Gotta have an open mind.
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Please read and re-read this, those are words of wisdom hopefully you can apply them on yourself for future treads and replies.

If we are talking about cutting natural stone I agree an electric hand saw might be more productive but cutting pavers and retaining wall blocks I dont think so I know cause thats how I started hell I even used abrasive Blades couple of times all in the name of saving or not having enough money to buy the right equipment.

DVS Hardscaper
07-23-2012, 10:13 PM
I have and thats why I know. More changing would include a drive to the brickyard or "Home depot" in your case.

Zedo, I'm beginnin to think you musta inherited a pile of money. It seems to be no object to you :)

Why would a person wait till the last minute to replace a blade and suddenly have to halt the work and drive to get a new blade? Do you wait till your brake pads are so worn that they grind the rotors?

Being materials come from a supplier, a contractor is usually at the supplier on a weekly basis. Or having product delivered on a weekly basis. "Oh, My Dear Supplier, while you're bringing material, can you include a couple 14" blades?" "You can? Awesome. You're the Greatest"

So far it seems the majority participants here are against paying $200+ for blades. And are in agreement of satisfaction of the results produced by the lower priced blades.

Good work class :usflag:

meets1
07-23-2012, 10:18 PM
For me it was a learning experieince - something so small that was kinda over looked. I have now set steps in place to cover our blades. No matter the amount of blades you guys use, 200 or 2, you'll need to adjust the business model and modify things as you go.

Bottom line for me now, there is a line on the take off sheet for blades, not $200 one's but ones that are $75 - $100 (quality purchased) and make us a little more profitable!

joes169
07-23-2012, 10:37 PM
As a concrete & masonry contractor with at least 7 saws running on a regular basis, I certainly lean towards the higher quality, material specific blades in the $2-300 range. If you take the time to become educated on how the blades are put together, how the bonding is specified for every use, and the type of diamonds being used on the blade, you might be surprised at the difference. I'm not saying that every $200 blade is better than its' $60 equivalent, but there's no doubt that a $200 blade from a top notch producer is a better value.........

And yes I've tried the "cheapo" blades in the past and have gotten burned........

alldayrj
07-23-2012, 11:17 PM
I use my demo saw to cut everything, concrete, asphalt, stone, brick, block etc. it hits dirt, metal, wood, so it gets the cheap blade. the table saw gets a cheap blade too, but thats because i'm too cheap to buy an expensive one!!

AztlanLC
07-23-2012, 11:44 PM
As a concrete & masonry contractor with at least 7 saws running on a regular basis, I certainly lean towards the higher quality, material specific blades in the $2-300 range. If you take the time to become educated on how the blades are put together, how the bonding is specified for every use, and the type of diamonds being used on the blade, you might be surprised at the difference. I'm not saying that every $200 blade is better than its' $60 equivalent, but there's no doubt that a $200 blade from a top notch producer is a better value.........

And yes I've tried the "cheapo" blades in the past and have gotten burned........

Can I ask what brands do u use, I know there has to be a good blade out there that cuts faster and last longer like when I tried the hilti the first time.

zedosix
07-24-2012, 06:39 AM
Can I ask what brands do u use, I know there has to be a good blade out there that cuts faster and last longer like when I tried the hilti the first time.

Try Husqvarna brand, good ones sell (here in canada) for 3 to 400 they'll last for months on end and cut thru a 5" block in half the time of the "el cheapos"

zedosix
07-24-2012, 11:06 AM
Zedo, I'm beginnin to think you musta inherited a pile of money. It seems to be no object to you :)



:

Is that the best you can do Andrew:rolleyes:

AztlanLC
07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
Thanks zedo I will try them and then make my final decision

DVS Hardscaper
07-24-2012, 02:58 PM
The saying "you get what you pay for" is a saying I believe in.

But being many of us here have actually used various blades - experience and first hand knowledge supersede.

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vtscaper
07-24-2012, 09:46 PM
my experience with diamond blades has taught me this. price barely matters. It is all in the manufacturing-steel strength, flux for the diamonds, balancing etc. because we do a lot of precision cutting with stone consistency of the cut is almost as important as speed.

after years trying different blades I still can't say that we use the best blade with the most value to us...but we have narrowed it down. I have spent several hundred ea on supposedly top o the line cats ass blades and found them to be all over the place in terms of quality.

We spend about $100 on blades now and buy about a half dozen at a time. From a company that i won't mention, but is probably one that has harassed all of you in one form or fashion..and these guys are the tamer group of the ruthless diamond blade merchants.

They work great. last a long time and are consistent.

I definetely WOULD NOT line item this unless its a big enough job where this would be substantial enough to show the client a break out cost. which we have never done... i just figure it into my cost of opening shop every day: we use 6 blades times $100 each equals $600 a year which needs to be recovered..and we get it through our labor rate.

latux87
12-12-2012, 01:59 PM
OK....I throw my hat into this, and will try to be as objective as I can be...

Call this Confessions of a Diamond Blade Salesman if you like....

I entered this industry in 1994, the good old Wild West Days of Diamond Blades, when a cheap blade was $200, and good ones were $500+. After witnessing and taking part in some shady operations of that company, and being personally screwed after 3+ years, I left the industry and didn't look back. I won't mention their name, but I would be willing to wager a great many of you either deal with, or have dealt with them...and for that I'm sorry!

Anyway, about 2 years ago I was given an opportunity to get back in, and reluctantly accepted. Since then, I have been amazed at how much AND how little things changed. Some companies still out tremendous mark-ups on their blades, and some customers still believe a Home Depot blade is the same as a specialized blade....

What separates a $50 blade from a $200 blade today? Two things- salesperson/supplier, and purpose. Where I am now, we are given incentive to work on lower margins, and build relationships over time. For a customer that has never used us, unless they are a referral, we are limited to selling 3 blades maximum. Why? Because until you use them, you don't know what will work best, and if you don't like them, we don't want anyone to be stuck with inventory they hate!

As far as country of origin, MK, Hilti, Husqvarna- all are made oversees and private labeled. We import from China, Korea, Israel, and Italy. Our larger, professional blades for concrete cutters are made in USA, but those are blades that start at 24" and over $1,000....

Bottom line, speak to a salesman, and see how knowledgeable they are- not just of their blades, but your industry. Do they know what types of sand you use, and if you use your compactor before placing the pavers, after, or both? Do they tell you their blades will last 2x as long without asking what you're currently using?

Ok...think I'm done. Feel free to ask any questions if you would like.

DVS Hardscaper
12-12-2012, 05:07 PM
See! I told you guys! Andy (zedo) owes me a "yup, you were right"!


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latux87
12-19-2012, 12:03 PM
Apparently my last post was too commercial, mea culpa.

DVS, he is up in Canada, and they have a completely different aggregate, and with Country tariffs and shipping, blades can be quite a bit more expensive for him- a $125 blade can easily be nearly $200 when all is said and done...

But in general, you don't have to pay more than $150 for the BEST non specialty blades from most places.

White Gardens
12-19-2012, 08:37 PM
I ended up getting a used 14" cutoff saw this fall.

Bought a harbor freight blade for 70 bucks. Worked like a charm and didn't wear out on me like I expected.






...............

latux87
12-20-2012, 09:45 AM
Here's the good news for contractors, semi-bad news for guys like me...

There are very few "BAD" blades anymore, at least from major retailers. However, on the other side of the coin there are more "Better" blades available at reasonable cost.

It really comes down to how often you use a saw, and how specific the material is. If you're cutting nothing but old concrete a couple times a month, a cheepie is perfect, and will last. If you're cutting thin veneer, high PSI pavers, then you need a better blade.