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Turfdoctor1
07-22-2012, 11:28 PM
I hesitate to post this, because it is extremely personal. But, my thoughts are consumed daily about this topic, and I'm looking for a sounding board.

I have a medium size spray company. We have about 1100 customers. Today, I do very little of the spraying. 4 years ago, I was solo, and did all my own spraying. I am as cautious as I feel like I can be. Proper PPE, yada, yada, yada. But, there is no doubt in my mind that I have had more exposure than I would like. I can live with that. I'm having a hard time living with constant worry that it is affecting others.

My first son was born 3 1/2 years ago. He has autism, and it has been truly a struggle for our family. I love this little boy more than life, and he is truly a blessing to us. If I have done something that has negatively affected him, though, I am ready to make changes to help others avoid the same.

There is no known cause for autism. Scientists know that there is a genetic factor, but are also starting to believe that in addition to the genetic factor that there is also an environmental factor.

From helpguide.org: "Prenatal factors that may contribute to autism: Antidepressants during pregnancy. Nutrititional deficiencies early in pregnancy. The age of the mother. Coplications at or shortly after birth. Maternal infections during pregnancy. Exposure to chemical pollutants such as pesticides while pregnant."

I'm just curious how many of us are dealing with the same thing. Autism is now affecting somewhere between 1 in every 50-100 children, higher in boys than girls. Is that rate dramatically higher for those of us that have had pesticide exposure?

If you have any interest in this subject, please post. Our family is constantly seeking answers. To many questions in life, there are no answers. I know that our situation probably has no answer. But, I am curious.

dose0018
07-23-2012, 12:29 AM
I am currently a special educator (with a masters degree) and worked previously in the lawn industry. I have had concerns about my personal exposure as well.

You mention the growth in the rate of autism. It is important to realize that a major factor in this growth is growing awareness. More parents, teachers and professionals know what autism looks like so it is diagnosed more commonly. If you son was born 10 or 15 years earlier (hypothetically) he would still have autism but would be much less likely to have been identified or diagnosed

A few things from my Alma Matter's University Library that I read recently

de ****, M., Maas, Y. H., & van de Bor, M. (2012). Does perinatal exposure to endocrine disruptors induce autism spectrum and attention deficit hyperactivity disorders? Review. Acta Paediatrica, 101(8), 811-818. doi:10.1111/j.1651-2227.2012.02693.x

Shelton, J. F., Hertz-Picciotto, I., & Pessah, I. N. (2012). Tipping the Balance of Autism Risk: Potential Mechanisms Linking Pesticides and Autism. Environmental Health Perspectives, 120(7), 944-951. doi:10.1289/ehp.1104553

They show some association between ADD, ADHD and Autism with any Chemical exposure (including but not limited to pesticides). The studies looked at mercury and other environmental pollutants as well. None show conclusive evidence with any of the above associations. Additionally, when looking at pesticides a major area of concern was prenatal exposure to agricultural pesticides from food.

Unfortunately, there are no conclusive answers in one way or another:hammerhead:. There have been a number of proposed associations or causes with autism that have been proven false and many others have not been proven but also are difficult to disprove. Personally, I have and continue to feel that personal health risks from long term exposure (cancer or other ailments) are more likely.

I think it is too easy to try and blame yourself and question why a child has a disability but it is important to remember that there has not been a found cause of autism as you mentioned. Being a motivated supportive father will make a huge difference :)

Yatt
07-23-2012, 08:25 AM
Prayers to you son.



I am much more concerned with the chemicals I use in the orchard than the chemicals used on lawncare. I always use a respirator when measuring/mixing powders and a respirator, goggles and tyvek suit when spraying in the orchard.

Duekster
07-23-2012, 08:49 AM
My Prayers as well.

I seriously doubt that you exposed your wife to pesticides that caused this concern.

I believe it is a coincidence.

Having said that, there is always room for being cautious, using safer products and methods.

gunsnroses
07-23-2012, 03:55 PM
Having kids myself I understand how you must feel. Our society is filled with "possibles". For the fun of it I picked Teflon and autism and googled. Not surprised at all the things that came up. So many chemicals such as teflon are in everything....from carpet to cookware. I have always been wierded out from a pan that eggs dont stick to. These fears lead many people turning "granola". Having 3 granola relatives with cancer in the past 3 years proves to me that their is only so much we can do in this world for prevention. If we never question anything, we will never learn the solution.

Brett Thomas
07-23-2012, 06:17 PM
Some part of me believes that the amount of children with problems today is the same as it has always been but just in the past few years people know what symptoms to look for. Therefore it appears there are more problems with todays kids but in reality earlier generations didnt have the technology or understanding of things such as autism and other disorders.

Turfdoctor1
07-23-2012, 09:20 PM
Some part of me believes that the amount of children with problems today is the same as it has always been but just in the past few years people know what symptoms to look for. Therefore it appears there are more problems with todays kids but in reality earlier generations didnt have the technology or understanding of things such as autism and other disorders.

I thank each of you for your responses, especially you dose. That is great info, and it helps my conscience a lot.

I tend to agree, or always have anyway, that things just happen and nothing is much different than it always has been. We just diagnose it now.

I have just been really worried. I just hate to think that my pursuit of happiness could even potentially be hurting those that I love, or the loved ones of my employees, etc.

I hope that you are all right. I believe that you are. I'm just not as confident as I was before this all came about.

Weekend cut easymoney
07-23-2012, 09:36 PM
My best friends wife works with Autistic children here and in the surrounding areas--
previously, she worked in the San Fran. area-

She describes the change in rates the same as above--more and more awareness coupled with classifying people who might have being classified with mental ******ation are seems to be more of the culprit to the rise in the rates--

your not the cause of your child's autism---be a loving, caring parent and work hard with your child-

DiscoDave
07-23-2012, 09:53 PM
One of my sons also has autism. i have no idea what caused it and why it has become so common. i drove myself crazy trying to figure it out. i had to finally stop looking for the cause and focus all of my efforts on the treatments and simply doing our best to provide a good life for our son and other children. Autism has became a blessing in disguise for our family. Our son having autism has resulted in me being better father and husband. i have learned to embrace my sons abilities and worry less about his so called disability. Our lazer focus on his strengths has given him the resources to develop new skills. i support and appreciate the researchers that are focussing on the cause. i really hope they figure it out soon. for me, i have to spend my time working on the things that make him better. Our son is now moderate to high functioning although his vocabulary is three years behind his age of 6. Send me a message if there is anyway i can help.
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grandview (2006)
07-23-2012, 10:18 PM
Back in the 80's they did a study on lawn care guys who sprayed lawns. They found out that they have premature worn joints in the hips and knees and they said the chemicals could be the cause of it. And to think i thought it was pulling a hose that caused the problem.

Grassman67
07-24-2012, 06:21 PM
There have been some studies done that seem to link the mercury contained in vaccine shots as a possible cause of autism. Sorry I can't post the link, it has been a long time ago.

Turfdoctor1
07-24-2012, 09:26 PM
There have been some studies done that seem to link the mercury contained in vaccine shots as a possible cause of autism. Sorry I can't post the link, it has been a long time ago.

those studies have been completely discredited.

Grassman67
07-24-2012, 09:34 PM
those studies have been completely discredited.

By whom and when? Vaccines have mercury in them, fact. Mercury causes brain problems, fact. Would it be possible for you to provide a link, because I have seen nothing where it has been discredited, and I read a LOT.

AuburnHort2005
07-24-2012, 09:52 PM
I think about this every day.

I do all my applications my self and of course wear the PPE. I even have the NIOSH approved face mask/respirator (for mainly when and if I'm spraying insecticides and fungicides) and sunglasses with pads/seals around where they sit flush against the eye sockets and I even take it as far as wearing rain pants over my regular pants and putting towels on my seat in the truck and I wash all work/fert/spray clothes/towels separate in hot water and run an extra rinse cycle in the washer AFTER the clothes get done. I am thinking of running another water line in and having a washer and dryer just for my work clothes.

I've seen guys out spraying in shorts, short sleeved shirts and tennis shoes. Ouch

Turfdoctor1
07-24-2012, 09:59 PM
By whom and when? Vaccines have mercury in them, fact. Mercury causes brain problems, fact. Would it be possible for you to provide a link, because I have seen nothing where it has been discredited, and I read a LOT.

I'm not saying there is no link. I'm saying that that research that you are citing has been discredited.

It took me about 10 seconds to pull this article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/medical-fraud-revealed-in-discredited-vaccine-autism-study/article621543/

or this one:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/health/22416192/detail.html

or this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02/lancet.retraction.autism/index.html

Grassman67
07-24-2012, 10:13 PM
That is 1 study that has been discredited. Means nothing. There have been several studies done on this, and while there is no conclusive proof, there is a suspected link to autism. All three of those links are for one study that was done improperly. The fact is, mercury is in all vaccines, (unless your very rich and can have some freshly made just for you with no mercury preservative), and mercury is extremely dangerous for the very young.

Weekend cut easymoney
07-25-2012, 08:03 AM
There have been some studies done that seem to link the mercury contained in vaccine shots as a possible cause of autism. Sorry I can't post the link, it has been a long time ago.

no, that all has been debunked-the doctor who published those studies has been kicked out on his head for falsifying his data--

the hysteria his studies have done more to HURT childrens health through encouraging parents to not have their kids immunized, which has led to multiple cases of preventable diseases killing kids-

Grassman67
07-25-2012, 12:15 PM
Oh I see, so your saying it is ok to inject our children with mercury. Thanks for that info. All this time I thought it was bad for you.

Snapper12
07-25-2012, 01:04 PM
Grassman - you are hijacking this thread. Start your own discussion on a Vaccine forum. Here is some info from the CDC for you - http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/

__________

I have also had this same concern and I think that is what keeps us on target and make us good applicators. If we weren't concerned then we wouldn't wear proper PPE and then we could have issues.

Grassman67
07-25-2012, 01:17 PM
Excuse me! This thread is about autism. I said vaccines might cause autism. How in the heck is that hijacking the thread. With that I am out of here.

cgaengineer
07-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Some part of me believes that the amount of children with problems today is the same as it has always been but just in the past few years people know what symptoms to look for. Therefore it appears there are more problems with todays kids but in reality earlier generations didnt have the technology or understanding of things such as autism and other disorders.

We also have the Internet to spread word about illness where before it was newspaper and TV.
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Cadzilla
07-25-2012, 01:33 PM
I think a lot of problems are caused by the growth hormones and weird additives in food.

Fifty years from now they will say "you used to force feed your kids milk that came from cows pumped up on steroids and growth hormones and who have had their genetics altered?"


Seriously?

cgaengineer
07-25-2012, 03:18 PM
I think a lot of problems are caused by the growth hormones and weird additives in food.

Fifty years from now they will say "you used to force feed your kids milk that came from cows pumped up on steroids and growth hormones and who have had their genetics altered?"


Seriously?

The hormones in meat are proven to be safe. Tree huggers and granola eaters always use "hormones" in meat to fill their agenda.

The most likely cause of children being sick could be due to parents taking their children to the doctor every time they have a runny nose and the doctors prescribing antibiotics.

Truth about hormones in meat/food:

http://itisafact.org/2009/04/the-facts-about-hormones/
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phasthound
07-25-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm old enough to remember when cigarettes were safe. It's true, the CEO's of all the tobacco companies gave their sworn testimonies before Congress.

C'mon folks, the truth will not come from either extremes. Our food is full of crap, pesticides have benefits but are abused. We will not drop dead from eating this fake food or by using pesticides but the long term consequences to our health and environment are not fully understood. When people argue from extremes, we all lose and very little gets accomplished.

Everyone bitches about Congress, but we are acting the same way.
God help us all.

Grassman67
07-26-2012, 05:45 PM
I'm not saying there is no link. I'm saying that that research that you are citing has been discredited.

It took me about 10 seconds to pull this article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/medical-fraud-revealed-in-discredited-vaccine-autism-study/article621543/

or this one:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/health/22416192/detail.html

or this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02/lancet.retraction.autism/index.html


Took me about 10 seconds to find this one as well, and it has not been debunked.

http://www.greenhealthwatch.com/newsstories/newslatest/latest0701/mmr-evidence.html

A child in the hospital starts getting vaccine shots in as little as 3 days. Obviously, some are more sensitive than others. Don't be so quick to disregard the possibilities.
Some shots are more dangerous than others because not all shots contain mercury. There have been many studies on this, only 1 has been debunked. Many others are still ongoing.

Turfdoctor1
07-26-2012, 06:11 PM
Took me about 10 seconds to find this one as well, and it has not been debunked.

http://www.greenhealthwatch.com/newsstories/newslatest/latest0701/mmr-evidence.html

A child in the hospital starts getting vaccine shots in as little as 3 days. Obviously, some are more sensitive than others. Don't be so quick to disregard the possibilities.
Some shots are more dangerous than others because not all shots contain mercury. There have been many studies on this, only 1 has been debunked. Many others are still ongoing.

as already stated, you are hyjacking this thread. please just go away.

This subject is extremely pesonal to me, and I really don't appreciate you trying to focus on winning an argument rather than the point of the thread...whether or not those of us with high exposure are seeing higher numbers of our children having autism.

Moderators, if you want to delete the thread, not going to hurt my feelings.

Grassman67
07-26-2012, 06:18 PM
Turf

My only point I am trying to make, is that you seem to think your pesticide exposure might have led to this. Not likely. Sorry if I offended you, but I thought it might help. Goodby

Ijustwantausername
08-28-2012, 11:19 PM
as already stated, you are hyjacking this thread. please just go away.

This subject is extremely pesonal to me, and I really don't appreciate you trying to focus on winning an argument rather than the point of the thread...whether or not those of us with high exposure are seeing higher numbers of our children having autism.

Moderators, if you want to delete the thread, not going to hurt my feelings.

Turf,
I don't want to venture too far off of from the original point of the thread, but I too worry every now and then about what I am spraying. At the same time though I look back and see my grandfather, who at 78 continues to work out on his land everyday. He farmed tobacco and many other things and was exposed to many pesticides I'm sure. He didn't wear sunscreen and has had only a single melanoma spot removed in his whole life (while some would argue the sun is worse today, call it what you want). All that to say my mother turned out fine and she is in perfect health.

Another scenario: My dad worked in waste water treatment for 15 years, before I was born and after. He dealt with chemicals that made him lightheaded and dizzy every now and then. He's 50 and still trucks right along and is in perfect health. I, luckily can say that my health is fine, although I could lay off sugar probably :dancing:.

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it and blame spraying herbicides for your child's condition, it could have happened regardless, and probably so. I believe everything happens for a reason and when its your time, no matter the amount of pesticides or what you ate, its your time.

Duekster
08-29-2012, 05:10 AM
The hormones in meat are proven to be safe. Tree huggers and granola eaters always use "hormones" in meat to fill their agenda.

The most likely cause of children being sick could be due to parents taking their children to the doctor every time they have a runny nose and the doctors prescribing antibiotics.

Truth about hormones in meat/food:

http://itisafact.org/2009/04/the-facts-about-hormones/
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You just like looking little 12 Year old girls with Double D's :laugh:

Obviously, you do not know they are 12 because they look 18

cgaengineer
08-29-2012, 06:14 AM
You just like looking little 12 Year old girls with Double D's :laugh:

Obviously, you do not know they are 12 because they look 18

That's sick man! ;)

The older you get the younger they look to me...I catch myself asking my wife if the person approaching me in the car is even old enough to drive.
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C Jovingo Landscaping
08-29-2012, 06:30 AM
Back in the 80's they did a study on lawn care guys who sprayed lawns. They found out that they have premature worn joints in the hips and knees and they said the chemicals could be the cause of it. And to think i thought it was pulling a hose that caused the problem.

Just hips & knees? I have shoulder & elbow issues & pushed a 10 gal tank around lawns from '93-'99. But my issue may also be paint related ('99-'11), combination of paint fumes & constant movement of joints from spraying tens of thousands of gallons.
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