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mrsteve
07-31-2012, 09:36 PM
Here's an observation since we have been without rain for awhile. We made a real effort starting last year to try the cycle soak approach to irrigation. The thinking was to hopefully re-train the turf and beds for the twice a week watering and to send roots deeper. It seemed to be working as long as we got some supplemental water from the sky. Now with no rain, the bad designs are showing themselves again, in a big way. It seems that we need a full one cycle to sort of flood, and pick up the dry areas. It's wasteful I know, but I would say a full 80% of the systems we maintain are in that sad condition. Keeping legal with the restrictions we are adding a second program with a pm start on the water days. So we have am starts doing cycle soak and then a single start with full time that night. Still too early to tell if this will work or not, our annual color beds are burning up, but maybe we can save the turf and beds.

Mudly
07-31-2012, 11:40 PM
Have you tried phosphorus that'll send them deeper. If you habe chemical restrictions in your area try hydretain. Hydretain is a great sell for commercial and highend residential accounts. Keeps you mowing plus the profit from the application. Awesome pitch point for places with water restrictions or astronomical water prices.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
07-31-2012, 11:52 PM
I have a customer that has 1200 plants and with this heat the drip lines isnt cutiing it
So the owner increase the water now some plants are dieing from water log
So now shut drip line off and water by hand and starting see better results beds are blooming better and shrubs getting dark green again
I hand watering every 2 days

The ppl that installed the plants didnt grade beds very well

mrsteve
08-01-2012, 08:33 AM
I guess my point is that we need better designs now more than ever. I don't see very many systems that can stand alone when there is no rain.

mrsteve
08-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Here's another opinion of mine this year. I've switched to pressure regulating heads manly the Rain Bird RD series for sprays and the 5000 rotor. These are promoted as water saving devices for our customers. My results are that the rotor looks to be doing the job, but the spray not so much. I don't believe it the fault of the head, but more again of bad designs. The water droplets may hit the ground better at 30psi but we are not getting the distance. I'm currently trying the 45psi heads to see if they will work a little better. The 45psi body was created for the rotator type nozzle, but in my opinion is not too high of a pressure for a spray nozzle. I think in the old days our charts showed spray nozzle distance at different pressures, now they all stop at 30psi. The deal is we need distance and even precipitation for these older systems. I'm well aware of the case for the rotator type retrofit, but our water window is not long enough for these on most commercial properties

Mark Oomkes
08-01-2012, 11:02 AM
I guess my point is that we need better designs now more than ever. I don't see very many systems that can stand alone when there is no rain.

Maybe down by you, but up north, there is no design that will completely keep up without rain, unless they run the system twice a day at 200%. Cool season grasses just can't grow "normally" with no rain for 6-8 weeks with temps in the 90's on a regular basis.

But yes, the systems that have bad spots, are not head to head coverage definitely show in a year like this. But so does every nozzle that has the least bit of blockage or a reduced flow from a partially pinched line, etc.

Kiril
08-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Hmmmm. Fescue is widely grown in my area, and we get no rain and average summer temps in the mid 90's every year, and it does fine.

Mark Oomkes
08-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Hmmmm. Fescue is widely grown in my area, and we get no rain and average summer temps in the mid 90's every year, and it does fine.

Referring to my post Kiril?

Not many fescue lawns in my area, mostly KBG and\or rye.

Wet_Boots
08-01-2012, 11:44 AM
fescue ain't bluegrass

grassman177
08-01-2012, 01:14 PM
we have some systems that are doing quite well, with proper design(any i have ever installed), but most are showing really bad right now. i am currently installing one with very bad pressure and low low flow. they popped up with flush, but have yet to nozzle them to see the final result. by design and math, all should be ok..........i hope!

Mike Leary
08-01-2012, 01:22 PM
Even up in WA State, we've had dry periods where my systems could keep up, but used a TON of water! My recommendations to the principals were usually, "let the turf go, it'll come back."

Kiril
08-01-2012, 07:00 PM
Referring to my post Kiril?

Not many fescue lawns in my area, mostly KBG and\or rye.

fescue ain't bluegrass
------------------

Cool season grasses just can't grow "normally" with no rain for 6-8 weeks with temps in the 90's on a regular basis.

Are we clear?

ArTurf
08-03-2012, 10:42 PM
I'm actually have got to the point where I prefer drought conditions. The poor designs are not hidden with rainfall and business booms. An installer who does a lot of work in my town cannot hide from his poor designs and eventually this customer comes my way. Like you said 80% or more of the systems are poorly designed.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
08-03-2012, 10:55 PM
I'm actually have got to the point where I prefer drought conditions. The poor designs are not hidden with rainfall and business booms. An installer who does a lot of work in my town cannot hide from his poor designs and eventually this customer comes my way. Like you said 80% or more of the systems are poorly designed.

We have guy thats installed some he booming last few years during the wet years now you can see he didnt know how to lay a system out one lawn looks like green poke dots kinda funny to look at

irritation
08-03-2012, 11:01 PM
You get that with customers that don't know how to water or are not willing to water properly.

grassman177
08-04-2012, 08:06 PM
i have tons of systems that were not designed. irritates the customers, but what can you do really, not much. that is why i think all should be certified, cuz here , there is not a requirement........yet

Duekster
08-04-2012, 08:14 PM
Run time is set to the lower QDU. to avoid brown spots. It is not soak cycle that is causing the problem.

Also you have to account for root depth to see if frequency is good.

Improve the DU is the first thing I try to do. I can do little about roots in the short term.

Do not add P unless soil test call for it.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-04-2012, 08:29 PM
We maintain a 4-5 acre account 2 inch meter, dca in the basement, pvb on the side of the house. KBG amended sandy soil, and run by an organic lawn company. Not sure all what he does but there are no chemicals, just organic matter added year after year.

I was shocked when after our big heat wave it was getting watered only time a week. Very short valve times at that on some 8-10 pgp zones running 20 at the most..There is a mix of full sun and shade all over. In the 5 years I've been going there it looks better year after year. Its a big risk, but thus far pretty good.

Duekster
08-04-2012, 08:31 PM
Shade is a big factor. Good deep roots are another.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-04-2012, 08:37 PM
Shade hides all the sins :)

Mike Leary
08-04-2012, 08:40 PM
We maintain a 4-5 acre account 2 inch meter, dca in the basement, pvb on the side of the house. KBG amended sandy soil, and run by an organic lawn company. Not sure all what he does but there are no chemicals, just organic matter added year after year.

I was shocked when after our big heat wave it was getting watered only time a week. Very short valve times at that on some 8-10 pgp zones running 20 at the most..There is a mix of full sun and shade all over. In the 5 years I've been going there it looks better year after year. Its a big risk, but thus far pretty good.

That's a damned good reason for using organics, think of the moisture retention in healthy soil! :clapping:

Duekster
08-04-2012, 08:41 PM
I have seen xeriscape mixed with regular shrubs and annuals. The client is clueless.
Regarding turf, I have seen full sun blister turf and the shade areas and east / west only look good.... All day full full sun is brutal even with water.

Duekster
08-04-2012, 08:42 PM
That's a damned good reason for using organics, think of the moisture retention in healthy soil! :clapping:

More like improving soil with aeration, compost and proper watering. Organic fertilizer vs regular ferts is not the issue.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Most grounds keepers and H/O's have been watering every day causing disease..I went to a place mostly sand soil on a fert/ pesticid program look like chit. Brown patch and dollar spot everywhere.. This soil hasn't been dry in a few many weeks. With 90+ temps lately it prob won't recover this season...

AMEND AMEND AMEND!!!!!! brotha

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-04-2012, 08:47 PM
Dukester- around here by organic we mean no fert at all.. From what I've seen this guy took a few acres of sand.. over 5+ years of amending this soil with minimal water and ton of natural material..

works like a charm.

Duekster
08-04-2012, 08:49 PM
Dukester- around here by organic we mean no fert at all.. From what I've seen this guy took a few acres of sand.. over 5+ years of amending this soil with minimal water and ton of natural material..

works like a charm.

Absolutely, Compost is king... it cost money however.