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JFGauvreau
08-10-2012, 09:48 AM
I would like some opinions from business owners who already bought both of these over the years, new or used.

Of course every business is different and the use of the trucks is always different, but from a general point of view I want advise and opinions on both of these.

What last longer? A f350-f450 dully, diesel with a 11 feet dumb box, or a standard double axle 6-10feet dump trailer.

- I know that the truck will depreciated faster then the trailer.
- Having a dump truck is probably easier for travel, for backing up etc.

I want opinions on whether or not I should be buying (used) dump truck or buy a new truck + dump trailer.

If anyone has run both of these equipment in their business, can you provide the advantage and disadvantage of both?

Thanks

grandview (2006)
08-10-2012, 02:12 PM
As you said,depends on what your doing. I like my dump trailer ,less maintenance on it.lower insurance for it cost less can carry more.

knox gsl
08-10-2012, 02:20 PM
Can you give more info about your business, typical load sizes and what will be hauled on it primarily.

wellbuilt
08-10-2012, 05:47 PM
I liked my dump trailer so much i now have 3 2 12' 1 10'
The 12' have box between the axles the 10s box is over the axles .
The problem is i was pulling the trailer every day .
I bought a ford lcf 450 16000 gvw .
It is nice to have both .

ParkWelding
08-10-2012, 08:20 PM
I liked my dump trailer so much i now have 3 2 12' 1 10'
The 12' have box between the axles the 10s box is over the axles .
The problem is i was pulling the trailer every day .
I bought a ford lcf 450 16000 gvw .
It is nice to have both .

Whats the empty weight of your LCF? Just curious.

The only truck larger than a pickup I've had was a F450 4x4 V10. With a GVWR of 15K it only had a legal capacity of under 3 tons. I have had 2 EZ Dumpers in 3/4ton dodge cummins pickups. A ton and you're done in those.

The 14' 14kGVWR dump trailer I have now gets used way more and handles 5.5 ton legally no problem. I can put smallish mini excavators and smaller skid steers in it easily. It's easier to get in and out of. I rent it out to trusted individuals regularly. Its like $350 a year in insurance with full coverage. I can pull it with trucks that fit in my garage for maintenance and repair. In short, I love it.

OTOH, if I was doing max loads of soil or stone every day, I would prefer a 550 or larger dump truck.

Depende on what you're doing.

KrayzKajun
08-10-2012, 08:36 PM
I love my dump trailer. When its not in use, makes for a great dumpster at my yard. We did a large tearout at a high school, it was nice to be able to leave the trailer onsite. My trailer is a gooseneck 18ft big tex dual tandem,I can legally carry 18k pnds in it. I would need a fairly large dump truck to compete with that.
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JFGauvreau
08-11-2012, 10:08 AM
I'm sure having a f450 or bigger dump truck with a dump trailer would be the perfect combo, you can haul the scrap dirt in the dump truck and the good soil in the dump trailer.

I usually carry stone dust, gravel, soil, trees, interlock etc. I know I won't be able to haul as much asphalt as I want. Considering the asphalt is far more dense then anything I have ever loaded before. Last time I rented a dump trailer to carry 2.5 tons of asphalt. The trailer was prob 8 feet long, it was a tiny pile of asphalt in the middle of the trailer. (The trailer looked almost empty with this tiny pile) But it was almost 10k pounds of asphalt.

I think I need a dump truck anyways, I know I can't haul as much with it but it's so versatile, even if it's just to carry 1 yard of gravel it will still be useful. Even if I buy a dump trailer, I won't have anything to carry it. My 2003 dodge Ram 1500 is getting to a point where it needs a break from all that hard work and towing.

White Gardens
08-11-2012, 10:19 AM
If you only have a 1500, then I would go with a dump truck.

In my situation, my first truck was an S-10 and had an old F-350 C&C dump truck. The dump did all my dirty work hauling a little over a ton of material and had a plow, so ultimately it was my plow truck.

Now I have an F-150, 10K equipment trailer and C3500HD dump. With the dump and trailer combo, I can haul my mini skid and a 3.25 ton load of material around when I need to. Nice to be able to haul the equipment and material at the same time.

The dump also is used to plow large commercial lots and a few driveways. On top of it, I can haul bulk salt with an under-tailgate salt spreader.

In all honesty though, I might get a dump trailer at some point. It's nice to do light work and just pull the trailer around with the F-150, but a pain to unload brush and debris by hand off the equipment trailer.

So, ultimately you have to decide what works best for your business model.

....

JFGauvreau
08-11-2012, 10:50 AM
Ya I have a 16 Feet flat bed trailer, it's nice to stack it with lots of branches, lots of space for that. But when it comes to carrying 3-4 tons of gravel or other materiel and having to unload it with a shovel, it's literally doing the work twice. Even a small dump truck with a 11 foot box, even if I need to do 2 trips instead of 1, at least I can just press the button and here we go, unload by itself, such a time saver.

Also with a bigger truck like a f350, it will be a huge upgrade to the tiny 1500, I can haul more without worrying about the back of the truck being crushed down.

treemover
08-12-2012, 11:45 PM
I would go dump truck for sure. I would not bother looking at 450 or 550's. I would take a look at international 4000 series, we have 3 86,92,98. Cheaper to buy,maintain, pto pump(huge plus) and be able to haul load plus pull a trailer.

I have always been 100% landscape and excavating, wish someone would have gave me this advice earlier on in my career.

Good luck

JFGauvreau
08-13-2012, 09:31 AM
Something like this? lol

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/International/4900/PERTH/Ontario/5_14391368_20091228132726364/?ms=heavy_trucks

Seems kinda nice, considering it only has 113km on it for that price, it must be a diesel engine also.

Lawn Pawn
08-14-2012, 12:17 AM
Built up a Ford 350 to a dump truck... worked OK..

Then built up a Isuzu NPR to a dump truck... Loved it !!
Just cost too much to keep ins. and license for the use I got out of it.

Bought a new PJ 5x10 tandem dump trailer I pull with a 2011 Canyon Z package.
For me it is a perfect fit for a downsized one man business.
Just gatta get what fits your needs.

nickslawnltd
08-14-2012, 12:44 AM
We have a dually dumper and a dump trailer and both have there pros and cons. Most have been stated trailer seems to depreciate less, less upkeep, never down really and can be towed by another truck, greater load capacity, the truck is more nimble, but more upkeep maintenance, insurance and sucks when it's down for repair. Tough call, I started with the truck and added the trailer after. Love the truck for most jobs but again the trailer has its pluses

Grumpydave
08-17-2012, 10:27 PM
Have had both. The dump trailer will do almost everything the dump truck did and by towing it with a F-350 I don't get caught up in the need for a class b drivers licence some guys are dealing with.

treemover
08-18-2012, 11:37 PM
Have had both. The dump trailer will do almost everything the dump truck did and by towing it with a F-350 I don't get caught up in the need for a class b drivers licence some guys are dealing with.

Well....you need a cdl to tow that trailer behind a 350 fyi

ParkWelding
08-19-2012, 09:51 AM
Well....you need a cdl to tow that trailer behind a 350 fyi

How do you know that? Did he give the trucks GVWR and the trailers GVWR? If they don't add up to more than 26,000# than no CDL.

treemover
08-19-2012, 01:49 PM
This been gone over time and again, just trying to give advice not starting anything. Been in biz 15 years run pickups tandems tri s and end dumps, been fined by dot and in many classes for this. Straight truck no trailer under26 k no cdl. Any combo (truck and trailer) over 10 k cdl and dot requirements. So 1/2 ton pulling most tandem trailers you need cdl and meet all requirements
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wellbuilt
08-19-2012, 02:16 PM
Whats the empty weight of your LCF? Just curious.

The only truck larger than a pickup I've had was a F450 4x4 V10. With a GVWR of 15K it only had a legal capacity of under 3 tons. I have had 2 EZ Dumpers in 3/4ton dodge cummins pickups. A ton and you're done in those.

The 14' 14k GVW dump trailer I have now gets used way more and handles 5.5 ton legally no problem. I can put smallish mini excavators and smaller skid steers in it easily. It's easier to get in and out of. I rent it out to trusted individuals regularly. Its like $350 a year in insurance with full coverage. I can pull it with trucks that fit in my garage for maintenance and repair. In short, I love it.

OTOH, if I was doing max loads of soil or stone every day, I would prefer a 550 or larger dump truck.

Depend on what you're doing.

The truck weight was about 8600lbs when new .
A aluminum body would be the way to go .
All loaded up with daily tools and equipment im at 10,350 +-
I haul 3 ton max but the truck would hold much more weight

ParkWelding
08-19-2012, 05:00 PM
This been gone over time and again, just trying to give advice not starting anything. Been in biz 15 years run pickups tandems tri s and end dumps, been fined by dot and in many classes for this. Straight truck no trailer under26 k no cdl. Any combo (truck and trailer) over 10 k cdl and dot requirements. So 1/2 ton pulling most tandem trailers you need cdl and meet all requirements
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You are so full of sh*t.

jbell36
08-19-2012, 05:54 PM
no cdl for 10,000 + pounds...i'm pretty sure it's 26,000 for CDL...over 10,000 lbs is DOT numbers only...

really tough call, but i prefer the truck over the trailer...

treemover
08-19-2012, 06:42 PM
10000 combination truck and trailer is cdl
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DEPENDABLE LANDSCAPING
08-19-2012, 06:56 PM
I believe its 26,000lb for cdl isnt it?
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treemover
08-19-2012, 07:11 PM
You are so full of sh*t.


Here you go lawn boy...make sure you add some shovels to your equipment list.

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

Endorsements and Restrictions

ParkWelding
08-19-2012, 09:25 PM
So for an example an F350 with a GVWR of 9990# and a trailer with a GVWR of 14,000#:

1) Yes, The GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000#

2) No, The combination of vehicles (GCWR) is NOT more than 26,001#

= No Class A CDL

I do NOT need a shovel to do math.

Grumpydave
08-19-2012, 09:28 PM
MA DMV according to federal rules, in any state, you need a CDL to drive any of the following vehicles:

Class A CDL: Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GWVR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B CDL: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

John_DeereGreen
08-19-2012, 09:58 PM
Haha, I love CDL fights...

Why do you think manufacturers are derating 12000 trailers to 9950? To stay under the 10K pound catch. That way, all the people with F450's can hook a car trailer to it and not be caught in the CDL game.

hosejockey2002
08-19-2012, 10:51 PM
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

This verbage is correct, but treemover's interpretation of it is not. It clearly states that you are in CDL territory if your Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) exceeds 26,000 pounds. Therefore, a 1/2 ton pickup towing over 10K does not require a CDL because the GCWR is under 26,000. Something like an F450 might require one, depending on the truck's GCWR.

Trailer derating comes into play because a guy can tow a trailer rated at 9990 pounds with a truck having a GVWR of 24,000 and not need a CDL at all. If the trailer is rated for 10K or more than he would need a class A.

ParkWelding
08-20-2012, 12:15 AM
Haha, I love CDL fights...

Why do you think manufacturers are derating 12000 trailers to 9950? To stay under the 10K pound catch. That way, all the people with F450's can hook a car trailer to it and not be caught in the CDL game.

It's also really useful with equipment trailers for guys with larger, but 26,000GVWR and under dump trucks. Can haul a decent load while still towing compact equipment around.

treemover
08-20-2012, 09:01 AM
each to their own....just trying to save some people money. Been fined for this exact conversation by dot. People can "believe" what you want. good luck

Grumpydave
08-20-2012, 05:19 PM
You must have run into someone looking for any excuse to write a ticket. At the same time I was riding with someone who got a big fine for having a unsecured load on his trailer. The load ? a single bale of hay tucked in a front corner. They will find something if that's their mission.

Duffster
08-23-2012, 11:00 PM
This verbage is correct, but treemover's interpretation of it is not. It clearly states that you are in CDL territory if your Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) exceeds 26,000 pounds. Therefore, a 1/2 ton pickup towing over 10K does not require a CDL because the GCWR is under 26,000. Something like an F450 might require one, depending on the truck's GCWR.

Trailer derating comes into play because a guy can tow a trailer rated at 9990 pounds with a truck having a GVWR of 24,000 and not need a CDL at all. If the trailer is rated for 10K or more than he would need a class A.

Exactly.....

Duffster
08-23-2012, 11:04 PM
This been gone over time and again, just trying to give advice not starting anything. Been in biz 15 years run pickups tandems tri s and end dumps, been fined by dot and in many classes for this. Straight truck no trailer under26 k no cdl. Any combo (truck and trailer) over 10 k cdl and dot requirements. So 1/2 ton pulling most tandem trailers you need cdl and meet all requirements
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This is so wrong it's stupid.

Duffster
08-23-2012, 11:07 PM
10000 combination truck and trailer is cdl
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Can you read?

Using your reading and comprehension skills you also need a CDL for any trailer under 10k. :rolleyes:

RSK Property Maintenance
08-23-2012, 11:27 PM
depending on what you need it for would determine which is best for you, my friends who own a landscaping and tree service argue a dump trailer is better, due to being able to hold more weight then an f350 or f450 dump truck, and they are lower to the ground so they are easier to load by hand with wood, but you can't put a plow on a dump trailer and you can't throw a sander in a dump trailer, well maybe you can but it would look ******ed. i would say a dump truck for leaf removal if you have a leaf vac, or chipping into, and for junk removal if its light. for heavy stuff dump truck if you have a truck that can pull it safely. and i would go no smaller then 14x7 with a 14,000 gvw.

PlantscapeSolutions
08-25-2012, 12:58 AM
Back to the topic I have a 20' PJ dump trailer with dual 10K axles. I pull it with a 09' Ram 3500 with the 4.10 I swapped in to replace the factory 3.73's. Yes I have a class A CDL. My advice is if your going to go with either a 16', 18', or 20' dump with dual 10K's or 12K's for axles is to pay the extra big bucks for electric over hydraulic brakes. The electric brakes are really dangerous if you plan on pulling close to capacity. I spent $3800 for my upgrade.

My trailer empty is 9K and is rated for 25K but I've been over by 2-3K many times. My GCW has probably been up to 36K.

If your going to pull the trailer all the time moving up to a 4500 or 5500 would be a good idea.

Carolina Greens Turfcare
10-17-2012, 10:35 PM
I think the trailers come in pretty handy. If you have a smaller company and have guys staying at job sites that need to put debris in a dump bed it is to drop it and leave it and have someone using the truck for something else that day, where as a dump truck, the truck is sitting there not moving, but maybe could be making money somehow if it was