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TuffWork
08-12-2012, 11:01 PM
I was hoping to get a few more installs under my belt before learning the hard way. I hand dug for a few feet around where it should have been but turns out is was about 2 inches from where I stopped. I should have just dug until I found it. I'm going to do that from now on. Get this- it was only about 10 inches deep. Isn't the rule for these two feet?

Anyway, it's that orange poly pipe and appears to be the common 1 1/8 outside diameter. Guess I'm headed to the plumbing supply in the morning to let them tell me how to fix it. Please no one rake me over the coals for posting this, I already feel like enough of a dumbarse.

PS This is for my four year old who's standing next to the computer and insists that I throw some in. :weightlifter: :cool2: :hammerhead:

cgaengineer
08-12-2012, 11:11 PM
Just put some duct tape around it and bury it. ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
08-12-2012, 11:19 PM
You don't fix it. The gas company fixes it. This is why they invented insurance. This is why you call before you dig.

grandview (2006)
08-12-2012, 11:20 PM
I'd fine you 10,000 for digging without calling underground services!

ALLPro Landscaping
08-12-2012, 11:30 PM
agree with grandview, never trust where anything is below ground, get mark outs, I mean, I don't understand why people don't call, it releases you of any liability. for free better yet, call 811 very simple to do, now do you have any idea how much it will cost you to repair that line, if its the poly, I don't think you can just re splice it, I maybe wrong, but my fathers a plumber and he tells me all the time don't hit the poly pipe cause you'll be out a grand easy. Next call,

Irrigation Contractor
08-12-2012, 11:33 PM
It sucks and it won't be the last time. My guys have cut the gas line with the shovel before just trying to find it.

Just make sure the get a dig ticket from now on and make sure the line you hit is repaired by a professional. Way too much liability at this point to have it leak down the road.

It does piss me off to find main lines to the house at times 4"-6"s deep when codes is making us plumb the backflow 24" from the tap to the device. Good thing most are poly lines now.

blakescape
08-12-2012, 11:36 PM
My dad is in the underground utility business and the one thing I learned is to never assume anything. The last job I was on had a 30in water main mismarked by 5ft, an unmarked gas line and two unmarked 6" water lines.

Heres a few suggestions:
Always call miss utility before any digging. When utilities are marked in your work area, dig test holes to make sure you know exactly where the lines are(usually you only need to do this for gas lines, and cable tv/fios lines) for landscaping installs. Buy a soil probe to help locate a utility when digging.

Stuttering Stan
08-12-2012, 11:41 PM
Welcome to the club. I have the personal cell number for the gas rep. He gets a 1/2 of Bean everytime I need a favor.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
08-12-2012, 11:42 PM
What genuinely sucks is when you do call for a locate, and learn the locating wire for the plastic gas line is nowhere, on account of the gas line was extended for an addition, but the wire wasn't extended with it.

knox gsl
08-12-2012, 11:48 PM
If it makes you fell better the main gas line for my street is only 6 inches deep across most of my front lawn.

Wet_Boots
08-12-2012, 11:55 PM
I was hoping to get a few more installs under my belt before learning the hard way. I hand dug for a few feet around where it should have been but turns out is was about 2 inches from where I stopped. I should have just dug until I found it. I'm going to do that from now on. Get this- it was only about 10 inches deep. Isn't the rule for these two feet?

Anyway, it's that orange poly pipe and appears to be the common 1 1/8 outside diameter. Guess I'm headed to the plumbing supply in the morning to let them tell me how to fix it. Please no one rake me over the coals for posting this, I already feel like enough of a dumbarse.

PS This is for my four year old who's standing next to the computer and insists that I throw some in. :weightlifter: :cool2: :hammerhead:Up north, we're all about the poly, but somehow our accepted technique of insert fittings and clamps isn't useful for gas lines. Maybe it's that blowtorch we're waving at the pipe ends.....

1idejim
08-13-2012, 12:24 AM
You are lucky enough to be writing about this on the forum instead of being DEAD.

Everyone should know my stance on buried utilities so.....

How'd you shut the gas down if you damaged it?

In spite of what people think, calling for a locate does not automatically exclude your liability for damage.

Your best bet at winning a damage case begins with pre excavation documentation with tons of pics. Photos of the hand dig zone exploration and potholing. Photos of the excavation and remember that you can call for a no show or an emergency relocate, this is a 4 or 5 step process.
Posted via Mobile Device

greenmonster304
08-13-2012, 07:50 AM
Here it is very common to have the meter set far away from the house with perhaps 100' or more of piping that the Markout company won't mark because it is consumer owned. Many times there is no tracer.
Posted via Mobile Device

jvanvliet
08-13-2012, 08:20 AM
Here it is very common to have the meter set far away from the house with perhaps 100' or more of piping that the Markout company won't mark because it is consumer owned. Many times there is no tracer.
Posted via Mobile Device

GAAAAAH! Talk about suicidal potholing :eek:

Wet_Boots
08-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Here it is very common to have the meter set far away from the house with perhaps 100' or more of piping that the Markout company won't mark because it is consumer owned. Many times there is no tracer.
Posted via Mobile DeviceI'm somewhat surprised that no marking wire doesn't create a major fail in the inspection department, the kind that means no CO no way.

Now that they have plastic gas tubing with an attached wire, a simple code change would fix the lack of marking wire.

Mike Leary
08-13-2012, 01:17 PM
"Hey buddy, got a match?"

greenmonster304
08-13-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm somewhat surprised that no marking wire doesn't create a major fail in the inspection department, the kind that means no CO no way.

Now that they have plastic gas tubing with an attached wire, a simple code change would fix the lack of marking wire.

In high school I dated the step daughter of one of the local inspectors. We used to raid the liquor cabinet that was full of all the "gifts" from contractors.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
08-13-2012, 03:24 PM
Local mileage can vary. I lived in a town where the mayor was hauled off by the FBI after he took a bribe.

Critical Care
08-13-2012, 06:53 PM
Guess I'm headed to the plumbing supply in the morning to let them tell me how to fix it.

Remember Rule #1: Don't fart around with gas.

JB1
08-13-2012, 07:24 PM
bet your glad you posted this now.

GreenI.A.
08-13-2012, 07:44 PM
Here it is very common to have the meter set far away from the house with perhaps 100' or more of piping that the Markout company won't mark because it is consumer owned. Many times there is no tracer.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have found a couple properties like this in the last couple years. The worse I have found though was a property that had the main mounted at the main house. The line then went into the basement and was Tee'd off. One of the lines went back outside to feed the two garages and six rental cottages. The line that went outside was Tee'd underground to go to each of the eight buildings. After a day of potholing and not getting any further ahead, we decided it was cheaper & quicker to have a plumper just disconnect the outside line, if we hit anything we would pull new lines for him. Thankfully we somehow made it trough the whole job without hitting a single line.

1idejim
08-13-2012, 09:56 PM
http://www.excavationsafetyonline.com/IRFlip/2012ExcavationSafetyGuide/2012excavationsafetyguide/




/HBpDwY3Mnss

grassman177
08-13-2012, 10:08 PM
I dig across about 6ft over utility markings, scared to death of hitting something.glad ur ok. No one asked if u called for locates, but gave u grief for not! So, did u call?
Posted via Mobile Device

agrostis
08-13-2012, 10:13 PM
Look at this picture.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.energyindustryphotos.com/natural%2520gas%2520line%2520fire%2520and%2520blowout.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.energyindustryphotos.com/pipeline_blowout_photos_and_natu.htm&h=533&w=800&sz=66&tbnid=pXkH3ytnh7kPeM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgas%2Bline%2Bexplosion%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=gas+line+explosion&usg=__tthj1TXvQaJUlucyY4wkxdQTHQw=&docid=gyhSPBre9II-SM&sa=X&ei=xaQpUN-cFpK20QGI7IA4&ved=0CGUQ9QEwCA&dur=1704

1idejim
08-13-2012, 10:49 PM
I dig across about 6ft over utility markings, scared to death of hitting something.glad ur ok. No one asked if u called for locates, but gave u grief for not! So, did u call?
Posted via Mobile Device

Re Read my post. The OP has enough trouble, no need to beat him up. He needs to be educated not horse whipped.
Posted via Mobile Device

irrig8r
08-13-2012, 10:50 PM
30" pipeline leak and explosion destroyed 38 homes and took 8 lives in 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_San_Bruno_pipeline_explosion

PG & E has since sent residents near their pipelines postcards with a url for access to maps online. I found out I'm less than 50 yards one direction and about 100 in the other from two pipes this size that interesect down at the corner of the next block.

TuffWork
08-13-2012, 11:19 PM
I did call for a locate. They don't locate anything in private property most of the time and they sure as hell don't tell you how deep it is. The locate guy came out again to check it out after I already had it contained. It wasn't his fault. It was mine and I'm man enough to admit it. However, here's some more details: This pipe ran in a direction away from the house (probably a curved trench), and had no wire for location anyway.

I fixed it with a compression fitting (not PVC, the metal one that the plumbing supply gave me for $40). Then turned the gas back on and sprayed it with windex to test for leaks. I then wrapped it with 10 mil tape to make it up to code. Last, I went in and turned back on the pilot to the water heater for my customer.

As for how I turned it off. I just left it flowing all night.... there's a shut off at the gas meter in the alley. That's the first thing I did. The guys working with me looked at me in horror as they saw me running, but what they didn't realize is that I was running for a pair of channel locks to turn it off with. As I ran by I said,"don't light any cigarettes!!!!"

What I learned: an extra 30 min. of hand digging can save me three hours and $40. Also, I did not realize how easy it is to knick this pipe even with a shovel until I worked with it. That stuff is soft!

TuffWork
08-13-2012, 11:31 PM
Re Read my post. The OP has enough trouble, no need to beat him up. He needs to be educated not horse whipped.
Posted via Mobile Device

I am learning, and that's why I have enough humility to admit when I make a mistake and hope that others will provide me with advice other than the obvious as to how to prevent something like that from happening again.

muddywater
08-13-2012, 11:51 PM
I have hit them before too. A 1/2" service line is not going to kill anyone. Not a big deal, glad you fixed it. That compression fitting is nice, might want to keep one on your truck and it will save you three hours.

If it isnt located and homeowner doesnt know where it is... I am plowing through it.

1idejim
08-13-2012, 11:58 PM
There aren't too many ways to tell you how to avoid obsticals that aren't energized or have a trace wire except. Learn to dowse, it isn't hard to learn and the voodoo sticks are easy to make. My 10 yo grandson dowses well and i think he has the juice to be a lot better than i am at it.

I don't agree with you fixing the damage because you are now married to that repair forever. That's a fact and not an opinion.

The reason i asked how you shut it off was, many times, before the meter i have seen pipe bent and vice gripped shut. This can be a fatal choice as any spark can cause an explosion. Gas shut off tools are usually brass for that reason.
Posted via Mobile Device

AI Inc
08-14-2012, 05:50 AM
Gas is yellow. Orange is communications.

stebs
08-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Gas is yellow. Orange is communications.

I caught the orange color as well... OP, Did you smell gas when you hit it? I'm wondering if you didnt hit an empty communications conduit instead of a gas line...

Mike Leary
08-14-2012, 03:18 PM
I caught the orange color as well... OP, Did you smell gas when you hit it? I'm wondering if you didnt hit an empty communications conduit instead of a gas line...

Out west, at least, yellow is "gas,oil, steam,petroleum or gaseous materials."
Orange is " communication, alarm or signal lines, cables or conduit."
We've hit poly and sch 40 white pvc that were used for wire runs. :hammerhead:

muddywater
08-14-2012, 03:19 PM
There aren't too many ways to tell you how to avoid obsticals that aren't energized or have a trace wire except. Learn to dowse, it isn't hard to learn and the voodoo sticks are easy to make. My 10 yo grandson dowses well and i think he has the juice to be a lot better than i am at it.

I don't agree with you fixing the damage because you are now married to that repair forever. That's a fact and not an opinion.

The reason i asked how you shut it off was, many times, before the meter i have seen pipe bent and vice gripped shut. This can be a fatal choice as any spark can cause an explosion. Gas shut off tools are usually brass for that reason.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think u should post a video of that!

I really really try not to hit things, but sometimes an electrical splice is less man hours than hand digging for hours.

And i can understand hitting a 2" gas main is deadly, bit not so sure a 1/2" main is deadly. They only have like 30 lbs of pressure and when you spark your stove, it doesnt explode.
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-14-2012, 07:04 PM
I think u should post a video of that!

no need to prove anything or embarrass anyone

I really really try not to hit things, but sometimes an electrical splice is less man hours than hand digging for hours.

really?

If it isnt located and homeowner doesnt know where it is... I am plowing through it.

...............................

And i can understand hitting a 2" gas main is deadly, bit not so sure a 1/2" main is deadly. They only have like 30 lbs of pressure and when you spark your stove, it doesnt explode.

Natural gas is delivered though 5 different types of pipeline conveyance.
1). flow lines @250psi
2). gathering lines @ between 250 and 960 psi
3). transmission lines @ between 200 and 1200 psi
4). distribution lines @ up to 200 psi
5). service lines @ 1 to 6 psi

once reduced at the meter the gas flows @ about 1/4 psi

the gas has to be pressurized to move it from one place to another, that's why lines of the same size may have different pressures. sometimes its where you hit it that makes the difference.

the whole point of the one call system is to protect the facility property and the public from damage or injury, in this case the OP hit an unmarked line that was on the consumer side of the meter and he was able to shut the gas off at the meter.

if the OP had hit the line before the meter (which should have been marked) he could have been involved in a real tight spot. years ago a crew i was working on hit a distribution line with the backhoe and the machine ran away (70K down the drain) but there was no fire or explosion, we were lucky.

personally, we have hit only 2 lines but were able to get them shut down quickly.

we have no business repairing damaged utilities, they do not belong to us, they belong to either the customer or the facility. the smart man calls the facility, pays for the repair and moves on. this is not debatable and if one is in disagreement, it's more a statement about oneself.

muddywater
08-14-2012, 07:50 PM
no need to prove anything or embarrass anyone
.

So you can locate a water line with dowsing rods?

How do you get good at it? I mean isn't the magnetic forces supposed to do their thing?

1idejim
08-14-2012, 08:15 PM
So you can locate a water line with dowsing rods?

yes i can, i take my voodoo sticks everywhere as a backup. :)

Wet_Boots
08-14-2012, 08:33 PM
the old gas line scare was to hit a steel house supply line with a backhoe and have it tear loose from the basement gas meter, with fire and/or explosion to follow

TuffWork
08-14-2012, 11:10 PM
So you can locate a water line with dowsing rods?

How do you get good at it? I mean isn't the magnetic forces supposed to do their thing?

There is a bit of a trick to it. We call it witching. The trick is to able to let the rods sit loosely enough in your hands that they do it on their own. Also, it's really hard to not slightly move your hands especially when your subconscious is trying to tell you that the line is one place when it really isn't.

As for what someone said about gas being yellow - It wasn't in this case. Yes I smelled gas. I was quite sure of what I hit. I first realized it by the dirt being blown in the air after the trencher kicked a little.

muddywater
08-14-2012, 11:18 PM
yes i can, i take my voodoo sticks everywhere as a backup. :)

As small as a one inch line? What are the sticks made of? Copper?

Or are you just trying to make my clients think i have lost my mind?

TuffWork
08-14-2012, 11:20 PM
correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the best rods to use 1/8" welding rods?

If I'm in a bind I'll just use flags with the flag part ripped off. Not terribly accurate but does allow me to have a little more confidence some times.

Mike Leary
08-14-2012, 11:40 PM
I never had much truck with witching until a friend called me about a nice piece of property he'd just bought that the drillers said was impossible to get water. I'd heard about some old fart that claimed to be able to find water, we found him, in his eighties, and brought him to the site. He witched it, found some weird artesian anomaly at 60 feet and my buddy had water to kill for.

1idejim
08-14-2012, 11:50 PM
As small as a one inch line? What are the sticks made of? Copper?

Or are you just trying to make my clients think i have lost my mind?

i have no control over what your clients think about you.

i did spend a day with Argos last year at the fish hatchery where we dead on located a 45 mainline for excavation and tap.

that was about a year ago if you want to look it up
Posted via Mobile Device

muddywater
08-14-2012, 11:58 PM
i have no control over what your clients think about you.

i did spend a day with Argos last year at the fish hatchery where we dead on located a 45 mainline for excavation and tap.

that was about a year ago if you want to look it up
Posted via Mobile Device

So you can find a 1" main or you cannot? What do you use for your sticks?

1idejim
08-15-2012, 12:00 AM
I never had much truck with witching until a friend called me about a nice piece of property he'd just bought that the drillers said was impossible to get water. I'd heard about some old fart that claimed to be able to find water, we found him, in his eighties, and brought him to the site. He witched it, found some weird artesian anomaly at 60 feet and my buddy had water to kill for.

my buddy doug can witch with the best of them. i'm teaching him to use voodoo sticks and he's teaching me the branch method.

it's a kick in the butt, but my bad wrist makes holding the branch difficult.

i guess if it were easy then anybody could do it.
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-15-2012, 12:56 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the best rods to use 1/8" welding rods?

If I'm in a bind I'll just use flags with the flag part ripped off. Not terribly accurate but does allow me to have a little more confidence some times.

both work but they're far from being the best.

anyone can dowse but to be above about 60% you have to have the feel (i call it the juice) for the energy.

more than once i have used a couple of pvc pipes for angles in a pinch and been real close to my target.

i like the sticks i have now (just right balance and feel) and i am 80 to 90 percent dead on and that's better than most of the dowsers i know personally.

a guy needs the best sticks he can get but it is not so much the sticks or irons that are used as much as it is being able to feel and interpret the actions of the tools.
Posted via Mobile Device

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-15-2012, 05:18 PM
Spoke with Jim the other day about locating..again.

I need me a pair of dowsing rods..

grassman177
08-15-2012, 05:56 PM
I agree, that is what I was trying to conveyRe Read my post. The OP has enough trouble, no need to beat him up. He needs to be educated not horse whipped.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

agrostis
08-15-2012, 06:26 PM
Witching has worked for me about 75% of the time finding big PVC water pipe, I have had more trouble finding 1 1/4 and smaller with them. And i'm not talking about a forked stick, it's a handled metal rod bent on a ninety. You do need the best rod's you can get. This is just an example.

http://shop.cooperhewitt.org/p/534/Dowsing-Rods?gclid=CNjRx_LE6rECFcqe7QodiloACA

koster_irrigation
08-16-2012, 09:32 PM
i use the 1/8" metal welding rods as stated above. i beleive they may be stainless steel... they havent rusted over the yrs. they come in 30" or so lengths. i bent a 4" or so portion at the end at a 90 degree and just use those for handles. ive never had any issues. i probably started using these back when i got in the biz in the early 90's. i was turned on to this by a local surveyor that taught me how to use them.

keep in mind this way picks up any obstructions in the earth magnetic field. so be prepared for lots of wasted time digging here and there

irritation
08-16-2012, 09:46 PM
Tried them when I was younger but I was so good looking and magnetic they didn't work very good.

I now have no use for it, if the utility locates didn't mark and my 501 can't trace it, then it's not there.

1idejim
08-17-2012, 06:17 PM
/WFKxjif97NY

1idejim
08-17-2012, 09:21 PM
a couple of phone calls later and i finish the upload :hammerhead:

-snXWQE8Tz4

muddywater
08-17-2012, 10:15 PM
a couple of phone calls later and i finish the upload :hammerhead:

-snXWQE8Tz4

You must have alot of time on your hands.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-17-2012, 11:37 PM
hey muddy we all have a lot of time on our hands


brah

1idejim
08-18-2012, 12:13 AM
You must have alot of time on your hands.

not qvite as much as it appears but i make the best of it.

up at 3:15 dogs - cows - water, leave for work at 4:45.

drive 60 plus miles to job - mix and place 2.75 cyds of high/early by hand - clean up - drive 60 plus miles - make and take calls / return emails - drive home - cows - dogs - set water for sunday - dive and patch liner pool - check the varmint traps.

oh yeh, i forgot that i made a set of sticks for a friend on the east coast and when the sun goes down i am going to review a locating video, but right now i am gonna call Billy. that alright with you?
Posted via Mobile Device

mitchgo
08-18-2012, 01:28 AM
Lawnsite needs a like button

muddywater
08-18-2012, 09:07 AM
not qvite as much as it appears but i make the best of it.

up at 3:15 dogs - cows - water, leave for work at 4:45.

drive 60 plus miles to job - mix and place 2.75 cyds of high/early by hand - clean up - drive 60 plus miles - make and take calls / return emails - drive home - cows - dogs - set water for sunday - dive and patch liner pool - check the varmint traps.

oh yeh, i forgot that i made a set of sticks for a friend on the east coast and when the sun goes down i am going to review a locating video, but right now i am gonna call Billy. that alright with you?
Posted via Mobile Device

3:15? Dang I thought I got up early. Yes its alright with me.

mpvoss
08-18-2012, 05:09 PM
I think u should post a video of that!

I really really try not to hit things, but sometimes an electrical splice is less man hours than hand digging for hours.

And i can understand hitting a 2" gas main is deadly, bit not so sure a 1/2" main is deadly. They only have like 30 lbs of pressure and when you spark your stove, it doesnt explode.
Posted via Mobile Device

On residential gas meters, the pressure from the meter to the house is only 3 -4 psi.

muddywater
08-18-2012, 06:53 PM
On residential gas meters, the pressure from the meter to the house is only 3 -4 psi.

sounds deadly

1idejim
08-18-2012, 07:05 PM
On residential gas meters, the pressure from the meter to the house is only 3 -4 psi.

3-4 ounces. but read where pressures can be over 900 psi.

I draw no lines with buried utilities, they are all dangerous, time consuming and costly to repair and if not repaired by the facility or licensed individule the person responsable for the damage is married to the repair. Period.


It's one thing for the mow and blow to replace a head that they damaged or a pipe that they broke. Most here ***** and complain when they do and post such repairs in the hall of shame.

What happens if your repair fails after you have done it the way you were told at the supply house? What if the repair coupling was faulty? What if the counter guy was wrong? Who gets to pay for the damage? What if the owners aqe away and the house fills with gas and best case burns while they are gone? worst case they are home ane things are real ugly?

Insurance doesn't cover stupidity my friend and the coming trend is leaning on crimminal charges being filed in cases of negligence or non disclosure or report of damage.

Off the box now, i personally feel that the years of exposure that i have had in regards to buried utilites just makes me more aware of the consequenses of my actions than some forum members. Maybe not
Posted via Mobile Device

muddywater
08-19-2012, 01:09 AM
3-4 ounces. but read where pressures can be over 900 psi.

I draw no lines with buried utilities, they are all dangerous, time consuming and costly to repair and if not repaired by the facility or licensed individule the person responsable for the damage is married to the repair. Period.


It's one thing for the mow and blow to replace a head that they damaged or a pipe that they broke. Most here ***** and complain when they do and post such repairs in the hall of shame.

What happens if your repair fails after you have done it the way you were told at the supply house? What if the repair coupling was faulty? What if the counter guy was wrong? Who gets to pay for the damage? What if the owners aqe away and the house fills with gas and best case burns while they are gone? worst case they are home ane things are real ugly?

Insurance doesn't cover stupidity my friend and the coming trend is leaning on crimminal charges being filed in cases of negligence or non disclosure or report of damage.

Off the box now, i personally feel that the years of exposure that i have had in regards to buried utilites just makes me more aware of the consequenses of my actions than some forum members. Maybe not
Posted via Mobile Device

900 psi on a residential service? You would trust a $15 an hour tech repair over your own repair?

GreenI.A.
08-19-2012, 01:40 AM
900 psi on a residential service? You would trust a $15 an hour tech repair over your own repair?

I would, the tech for the gas company might be making $15 an hour and have less experience, knowledge, and skill but is something eventually goes wrong, he is the one with insurance that will cover the damage. He is also the one properly licensed to do the repair. People seem to forget that when you touch a utility to repair it you are now married to that repair. Ten years later, that pipe fails and the investigation points to the repair you did in even the slightest bit, you bet they are coming after you.

1idejim
08-19-2012, 03:40 PM
900 psi on a residential service?

1.) http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=4499449&postcount=35

2.) i don't expect you to ever agree with me but i do expect you to read the post statement (since it was in response to your incorrect post) before trying to insinuate question.

3.) underground service alert was designed to prevent damage to the facilities property and personal injury or death to workers and the public. your statements lead one to believe that you have had very limited experience working in situations were life and death scenarios exist. each utility marking should be shown the same respect as another as you never know exactly what may be buried in a common trench that was missed or if a utility was miss marked or as shown in the video, unknown.

/YB6K41ulyfM



You would trust a $15 an hour tech repair over your own repair?

1.) i would never be faced with that issue, it's the facilities property and their responsibility to repair and assume liability for their work.

2.) i don't know where you get the $15 an hour tech part? here the journeymen get over $40 an hour, plus benefits. they also serve a 4 year apprenticeship and attend classes for CEU's.

any journey level "gas tech" here is a certified welder, pipe fitter, equipment operator and laborer and can do anything pertaining to gas services, transmission or conveyance.

3.) if your repair went south, how would you like to pay the bill on something like this:

/Gqm9vvk2E6I


4.) you need to grow up, get a handle on your online appearance to the other forum members, quit giving out bogus advice on topics you know little about, post something positive for a change. you may end up with a more harmonious outcome of your time here.

muddywater
08-19-2012, 07:11 PM
I just don't blow things out of proportion like you do.

We are talking about an unmarked private residential gas line. The 1-6psi one you are talking mentioned in your post. If it were anything else, it would be located. I don't know why you keep bringing up 900psi when we are talking about a residential and private gas line that the gas company will not locate. And 9 times out of 10, the dumb plumber did not put a tracer wire on the pipe.

Obviously you always get a locate. And if you hit a gas line by accident or marked improperly, the gas company will fix it for free.

So if I hit an unmarked private 1/2" gas line at the rear of someone's home, would I fix it? Yes. I am not going to dump that repair on the client after they are spending $1000s of dollars with me. And I am not going to call a plumbing company to fix it when I have better tech's than them. Not too mention we can fix the problem immediately and correctly.

You keep posting these stupid videos of large gas lines that someone hits without a locate... and that is not what we are talking about. Those would be located by "call before you dig"

You keep bringing up 900 psi... when that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about 1/2" lines at 3-4 psi.

Do I need to say it again? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 1/2" PRIVATE GAS LINES THAT UTILIQUEST WILL NOT LOCATE.

muddywater
08-19-2012, 07:26 PM
I google'd and youtube'd 1/2" gas line explosion but couldn't find any hits.... wonder why?

1idejim
08-19-2012, 08:35 PM
I just don't blow things out of proportion like you do.

you cannot blow safety or legalities out of proportion, underground utilities are underground utilities, period..........you treat them all with the same respect and you will make more by damaging less.
if you ever do any size-able underground work you will learn that, prolly the hard way. :hammerhead:

We are talking about an unmarked private residential gas line. The 1-6psi one you are talking mentioned in your post.

evidently we weren't, taken from post 27 As for how I turned it off. there's a shut off at the gas meter in the alley. That's the first thing I did. the OP was dealing with about 1/4 psi but it could have been just as easily taken from post 10 If it makes you feel better the main gas line for my street is only 6 inches deep across most of my front lawn.

I don't know why you keep bringing up 900psi when we are talking about a residential and private gas line that the gas company will not locate. And 9 times out of 10, the dumb plumber did not put a tracer wire on the pipe.

i suppose a hotshot like you will never plant a tree or build a fence near a utility trench, or do a street cut or hot tap off of a city main? i have been in the trades a long time and have done a ton of specialty work, lots of excavation work, i have hit 2 gas lines but both of these lines were 200psi+ lines. 2 lines in roughly 40 years isn't bad, lad.

btw, you show ignorance when you constantly try elevating yourself by calling others names, not all plumbers are dumb

Obviously you always get a locate.

why of course i do, when the law requires one.

And if you hit a gas line by accident or marked improperly, the gas company will fix it for free.

in your dreams, i get the same bill as anyone else.

So if I hit an unmarked private 1/2" gas line at the rear of someone's home, would I fix it? Yes. I am not going to dump that repair on the client after they are spending $1000s of dollars with me. And I am not going to call a plumbing company to fix it when I have better tech's than them. Not too mention we can fix the problem immediately and correctly.

that's right, you broke it, not the home owner. you simply call the facility and they will repair it, send you a bill and you can move on. if the facility is cool with you fixing the damage that's fine but you should check on the legalities of your actions before attempting to repair it and not report the damage.

You keep posting these stupid videos of large gas lines that someone hits without a locate... and that is not what we are talking about. Those would be located by "call before you dig"

who said that these lines were not located, one was a non located sewer mishap where you can bet the site was marked and located. the other was on a major street in the bay, bet it was located too.

You keep bringing up 900 psi... when that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about 1/2" lines at 3-4 psi.

actually one of the big reasons that Lawnsite is so important is educational. just think that only the other day you thought that 30 psi was regulated into the house and now you have learned that after the meter the regulated pressure is only 3 - 4 ounces. good for you.

you have also learned that transmission lines are pressurized to an average of 900 psi., this can be as low as 200 or as much as 1200 psi though.

you may never work around electrical transmission or distribution lines or high pressure gas lines (i really hope you don't) but as long as i am around you will hear the same thing over and over. when working underground you have to work safe, you have to be cautious and you have to have respect for the unknown. dime to a dollar you can't read a congested site. i posted a link to a free handbook and more than one person on the forum downloaded it for reference, i bet those that took advantage of the link can.

i even refer to it from time to time :)

muddywater
08-19-2012, 09:52 PM
Point is....


1/2" gas line = not deadly

2" gas line = deadly

Wet_Boots
08-19-2012, 09:59 PM
It all depends - homes were destroyed when small steel lines were broken off basement meters

Wet_Boots
08-19-2012, 10:17 PM
The most important thing I learned is that there are some house supply lines that are not fully equipped with tracing wires as a matter of common practice, and it is knowledge that does not make me happy.

1idejim
08-20-2012, 09:12 AM
The most important thing I learned is that there are some house supply lines that are not fully equipped with tracing wires as a matter of common practice, and it is knowledge that does not make me happy.

that's why i posted the vids on the gas tracker boots. when speaking with the rep the other day i asked about prices? pretty spendy so mainly facilities are buying them.

the rep did say that there was on construction company (in dallas i believe) that owned at least 1 unit, maybe more. he was also telling me that PG&E was acquiring a few for their facilities.

basically you have to have access to the gas itself, the unit connects into the system where it introduces a low frequency into the gas which is located via the receiver. these will allow the user to locate pipe without the aid of a trace wire.

years ago we were required to install trace tape over water, sewer and gas on public works projects. i still have a partial roll of water tape that i use on occassion since you can use a ferro magnetic locator to find the tape in lue of an electromagnetic locator.

Wet_Boots
08-20-2012, 11:08 AM
I remember reading years ago about efforts to add trace-ability to the poly pipe material. That you can buy poly with a copper wire affixed to it must mean that research hasn't panned out.

I don't worry about gas grill lines if they are copper tubing, since those are easy to locate.