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MDLawn
08-13-2012, 12:22 PM
So, I ordered all the materials for my first hardscape job at my brothers house, ya know if I screw it up it's only my brother.... Anyways while filling the order I ask about geo-textile fabric. The dealers response "We don't sell and it with new research the fabric is causing more problems than doing any good." I was stunned. This dealer holds seminars and everything too. Starting soon and would like to get the opinions.

zedosix
08-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Ideally you would be using geo-textile under your base material, but if not installed correctly or your base is not properly sloped and compacted then I'll agree, its a waste of time. Also depending what your soil condiitions are then it also plays a factor, if clay, you really should consider the use of geo.

DVS Hardscaper
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Your dealer over explained himself.

Anytime anyone over explains - they have a guilt conscience.

Geotextile fab is a must. cheap insurance.


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MDLawn
08-13-2012, 04:20 PM
I think I will due to heavy clays. Just need to source it from somewhere.

He said is causes more problems with proper drainage.
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DVS Hardscaper
08-13-2012, 04:48 PM
Most suppliers know nothing about drainage. Or grading.

They filled out a job application and got hired and trained to look up prices on the computer.



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MDLawn
08-13-2012, 07:45 PM
They are a builder too. Landmasters.net.
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MDLawn
08-13-2012, 07:52 PM
Found a geotextile supplier 2 miles from me. Great!! Feel better now.
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zedosix
08-13-2012, 08:08 PM
Found a geotextile supplier 2 miles from me. Great!! Feel better now.
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Now to figure out which one to use! Ask for gold line

DVS Hardscaper
08-13-2012, 08:35 PM
They are a builder too. Landmasters.net.
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Yeah.

And builders know nothing about soils. And stabilization. They'll build houses right ontop of disturbed soil. I've witnessed it.


ICPI I believe says that fabric should be used on a case by case basis. Well, it costs about 11 or 12 cents per square foot to buy. From day one I have used fabric on every single job we have ever done. It makes me feel better about our work. Cheap insurance. I'd hate to have something fail because I didnt feel like spending 11 cents per sf.



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Krafty
08-13-2012, 09:49 PM
Yeah.

And builders know nothing about soils. And stabilization. They'll build houses right ontop of disturbed soil. I've witnessed it.


ICPI I believe says that fabric should be used on a case by case basis. Well, it costs about 11 or 12 cents per square foot to buy. From day one I have used fabric on every single job we have ever done. It makes me feel better about our work. Cheap insurance. I'd hate to have something fail because I didnt feel like spending 11 cents per sf.



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.11 -.12 cents what a schmuck, is this one of them things you guys swear you get what you pay for... lol but seriously I think we are paying closer to .07 a square for en-140.

DVS Hardscaper
08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
.11 -.12 cents what a schmuck, is this one of them things you guys swear you get what you pay for... lol but seriously I think we are paying closer to .07 a square for en-140.

i dont know the exact cost. i know that i pay around $615 for a 15' roll, which includes 6% sales tax.



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zedosix
08-13-2012, 10:47 PM
i dont know the exact cost. i know that i pay around $615 for a 15' roll, which includes 6% sales tax.



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How many feet are on that roll? There must be like 500 or more cause we pay about 285 for a 12' x 300' roll of gold line.

Krafty
08-13-2012, 11:32 PM
Ya we are at right around $300 including tax for a 12'x360'

MDLawn
08-13-2012, 11:37 PM
I meant they install hardscapes not build houses. But I get your point.
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DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2012, 08:16 AM
I meant they install hardscapes not build houses. But I get your point.
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Now the story is coming together. This really reinforces my "over explaining" statement, see - I was dead on correct. That clown knows they should be using fabric. You're their competition, so he was trying to influence you so you would not have an edge on them.

One of my pet peeves is I never buy product from my competition. I will never give my competition a dime. That enables them profit. With profit they can market and advertise. They can hire smooth talking sales reps. Buy equipment. Etc.


A lot of hardscape clowns don't use fabric. They usually don't stay in business more than 6 years.
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zedosix
08-14-2012, 09:34 AM
I'm sure there are no hidden agendas on his part , I mean do you really believe the guy is going to feed him bs just toad himself look good. Get real
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MDLawn
08-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Aaaaanyways, I'm still going to use the geotextile as almost eveything I have read states you should, but will be watching what he told me closely in the coming future. It makes sense to use the fabric so that your base and the fun clay soils do not mix. He made a statement saying that they (whoever they are, I'm assuming Atlas Block) have shown that the fabric becomes clogged over time and that the water gets trapped in the base because it cannot flow out. Again I'm not going to go against hardscaping biblery, just was a little shocked to hear that. DVS you make a point but why would they tell every contractor or joe schmoe off the street wrong information on purpose? They seem to be moving into more of the distributor role than building. Having people getting upset at wrong information would do only one thing and thats kill their sales in distribution. But whatever.

Starting to get a little anxiety of doing this project (first one and having multiple things to complete). But I am also looking forward to try and complete this with the best possible methods. Thanks to my brother for letting me do this, I hope we're still talking when I finish!! :laugh:

DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2012, 01:04 PM
I'm sure there are no hidden agendas on his part , I mean do you really believe the guy is going to feed him bs just toad himself look good. Get real
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Wow Andy you're awfully grouchy and nasty lately. You tell me to "get real", perhaps you need to get L---" LOL. :)

In the world of biz the strategy is to keep your customers from venturing elsewhere. So yes, I do believe that. Is that ok with you?
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DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2012, 01:27 PM
Aaaaanyways, I'm still going to use the geotextile as almost eveything I have read states you should, but will be watching what he told me closely in the coming future. It makes sense to use the fabric so that your base and the fun clay soils do not mix. He made a statement saying that they (whoever they are, I'm assuming Atlas Block) have shown that the fabric becomes clogged over time and that the water gets trapped in the base because it cannot flow out. Again I'm not going to go against hardscaping biblery, just was a little shocked to hear that. DVS you make a point but why would they tell every contractor or joe schmoe off the street wrong information on purpose? They seem to be moving into more of the distributor role than building. Having people getting upset at wrong information would do only one thing and thats kill their sales in distribution. But whatever.

Starting to get a little anxiety of doing this project (first one and having multiple things to complete). But I am also looking forward to try and complete this with the best possible methods. Thanks to my brother for letting me do this, I hope we're still talking when I finish!! :laugh:

Clogging? For patios? The fab isn't used for water drainage! It's used as a membrane.

Tell that guy he should keep quiet that way all we can do is wonder if he's stupid. Cause when he talks we know he's stupid.
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zedosix
08-14-2012, 01:39 PM
You tend to guess a lot and as usual your wrong, I think with all the time you spend typing your bs it's you who needs to get laid. Bozzo
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MDLawn
08-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Clogging? For patios? The fab isn't used for water drainage! It's used as a membrane.

Tell that guy he should keep quiet that way all we can do is wonder if he's stupid. Cause when he talks we know he's stupid.
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Again you have much more experience than me and I'm just relaying a message. I think he was saying that as the water gets down into the patio it hits the "clogged" fabric and cannot drain into the soil resulting in potential problems with XYZ. Again just relaying what he said. Yes he looked more like a laborer turned sales assistant but I'm putting in my first hardscape so who am I to tell anyone anything....

DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2012, 03:42 PM
You tend to guess a lot and as usual your wrong, I think with all the time you spend typing your bs it's you who needs to get laid. Bozzo


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Although there is a difference between "guessing" and
Being moody :)

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DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Again you have much more experience than me and I'm just relaying a message. I think he was saying that as the water gets down into the patio it hits the "clogged" fabric and cannot drain into the soil resulting in potential problems with XYZ. Again just relaying what he said. Yes he looked more like a laborer turned sales assistant but I'm putting in my first hardscape so who am I to tell anyone anything....

Sounds like the dude is a talker. He should sell used cars.


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amscapes03
08-14-2012, 09:44 PM
If I had a Vette like Zedo's.............getting L*** would be the last thing on my mind. Well, at least for a month or two. Ok, maybe only a few days.