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View Full Version : Need some advice on sticker/nutsedge control.


Ijustwantausername
08-18-2012, 10:29 PM
I spray-tested my lawn today using Q4 to test it on crabgrass/nutsedge. I was using a Hudson never pump backpack and Teejet AI11004 for the first time (per Greendoc's suggestion) for low drift. My issue was that the water filled droplet's landed on the crabgrass/clover/dandelion and didn't "spread" out, they simply landed in the bead form it came out of from the sprayer. I added probably .5 oz De Fac surfactant to 3 gallons of my mix. Was that not enough? Is De Fac even any good? It says non-ionic surfactant. I used about 2.5 oz/gal Q4 since it was a little warm today and it was being put on a terrible mix of bermuda and fescue.

I am used to spraying Glyphosate and seeing the pretty "glossying" of the leaf blade due to the sticker it comes with, and the sticker I add. Why did the Teejet make such bubbles? Was it enough for the weed to soak up?

lawns Etc
08-19-2012, 01:09 AM
I use 1 tablespoon per gallon of water surfectant. Approximately 3 oz Q4. And I.don't worry about what it looks like I just spray and go. It works.
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CL&T
08-19-2012, 01:55 AM
I hate it when professionals (and manufacturers) specify pesticide amounts in teaspoons or tablespoons. That's for homeowners. Use ounces and a graduated cylinder or measuring cup for accurate amounts.

bug-guy
08-19-2012, 09:38 AM
i use a reg. pump back pack with 8008 tip

RigglePLC
08-19-2012, 01:12 PM
spray adjuvants are often used at .25 to .5 per cent on a volume basis in the spray solution.
You should have used about .96 to 1.9 ounces, if your adjuvant is typical. .
http://extension.psu.edu/cmeg/facts/agronomy-facts-37

I hope to test a spreader sticker soon to see if it can cause plant injury. In my test a few weeks ago...a spreader sticker--increased the injury when products were used at excessive rates and sticker was included.

Ijustwantausername
08-19-2012, 02:30 PM
spray adjuvants are often used at .25 to .5 per cent on a volume basis in the spray solution.
You should have used about .96 to 1.9 ounces, if your adjuvant is typical. .
http://extension.psu.edu/cmeg/facts/agronomy-facts-37

I hope to test a spreader sticker soon to see if it can cause plant injury. In my test a few weeks ago...a spreader sticker--increased the injury when products were used at excessive rates and sticker was included.

Hey Riggle, its been a long time, I hope you have been doing alright. The oz percentage is a little vague to me, are you saying 1 oz of sticker per gallon water? Or 1 oz per 4 gallon backpack? Also, I use De Fac 820 sticker from southern states, is that any good?

Also, are the droplets normal for that tip and are they effective if they don't "spread" out once they make leaf contact?

greendoctor
08-19-2012, 03:36 PM
When doing this type of application, I use 0.5% surfactant concentration to start with. That translates to 0.6 oz per gallon or for a 4 gallon load, 2.4 oz. What I am looking for during the application is for the product to hit the weed, cling, then wet the leaf surface. If that is not happening, I stop and add more surfactant.

The bubbles you see are a very good thing. Through a normal nozzle, that same liquid would probably be drifting. AI tips work best with adequate surfactants in the solution. They increase the amount of bubbles formed and cause the bubbles to break, then spread over the target surfaces.

Ijustwantausername
08-20-2012, 09:45 PM
When doing this type of application, I use 0.5% surfactant concentration to start with. That translates to 0.6 oz per gallon or for a 4 gallon load, 2.4 oz. What I am looking for during the application is for the product to hit the weed, cling, then wet the leaf surface. If that is not happening, I stop and add more surfactant.

The bubbles you see are a very good thing. Through a normal nozzle, that same liquid would probably be drifting. AI tips work best with adequate surfactants in the solution. They increase the amount of bubbles formed and cause the bubbles to break, then spread over the target surfaces.

Thanks GreenDoc. I took your advice with the nozzles and they work great. I figured I didn't have enough surfactant - I have heard a lot about burning lawns if you have too much. Are you familiar with the De Fac surfactant? Is it any good?

RigglePLC
08-20-2012, 10:36 PM
I tested Bonide Turbo spreader-sticker. I contains alcohol ethoxylate, and Alkylphenol ethoxylate plus 20 percent inert ingredients.
The label rate is one tablespoon per gallon (about .4 percent).
I tested it by spraying at 3 percent, 5 percent, and 10 percent. Temp was 68 degrees. Grass was Blue/rye/fine fescue.
So far ...at 24 hours there is no injury. Stay tuned.

greendoctor
08-21-2012, 06:07 AM
Thanks GreenDoc. I took your advice with the nozzles and they work great. I figured I didn't have enough surfactant - I have heard a lot about burning lawns if you have too much. Are you familiar with the De Fac surfactant? Is it any good?

As long as that surfactant is nothing more than a non ionic surfactant and not a sticker, you are fine. Stickers are for use with fungicides on irrigated crops. They will bind herbicides to the surface of the leaf and hinder the penetration, then translocation of the product. Too much surfactant is a problem when more than 1% is added and especially when gross overdoses of the herbicide are also in the picture. A good way to make a lawn look like a missile test site is to spot spray with a wand that cannot be calibrated, while applying a mix intended to cover 1000 sq ft per gallon and add too much surfactant. You will probably be applying an 8-10 X overdose to each spot. Most lawn herbicides, with some notable exceptions are safe up to a 2 X overdose.

greendoctor
08-21-2012, 06:09 AM
I tested Bonide Turbo spreader-sticker. I contains alcohol ethoxylate, and Alkylphenol ethoxylate plus 20 percent inert ingredients.
The label rate is one tablespoon per gallon (about .4 percent).
I tested it by spraying at 3 percent, 5 percent, and 10 percent. Temp was 68 degrees. Grass was Blue/rye/fine fescue.
So far ...at 24 hours there is no injury. Stay tuned.

Surfactant alone? I know grass will take soaps and non acidic or non alkaline detergents in normal use concentrations without burn provided the grass is well hydrated.

CL&T
08-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Agreed. Adjuvants work with and enhance the properties of the herbicide it's mixed with. Alone I doubt a surfactant will have any effect. A real test would be a herbicide applied alone then with increasing amounts of a surfactant on a target weed and surrounding turf. You would want to monitor the efficacy on the weed and when it begins to burn the grass.

RigglePLC
08-22-2012, 12:32 PM
I used surfactant alone for the above test. No injury so far, at 72 hours.