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View Full Version : mole cricket nightmare.... coming soon to an area near you.!


turfmd101
08-25-2012, 12:03 AM
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jvanvliet
08-25-2012, 11:17 AM
Got them already.

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 12:01 PM
Not yet. I'll give it 2.5 to 3.5 weeks. Cent. Fl.
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44DCNF
08-25-2012, 12:50 PM
Zone 5A/B - have em

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 01:03 PM
Why? Is the moon more full there? That would be crazzzzy.
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jvanvliet
08-25-2012, 01:06 PM
Why? Is the moon more full there? That would be crazzzzy.
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Dunno, why is one neighborhood infested with Sprial Whitefly and the next two or three not?

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 01:37 PM
It's just all chance. Like Russian roulette. Maybe it's more humid. Just enough. Tad more moist. Plant availability? Could be. But probably chance. Yea chance. But if you know how to look, you can find it.
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Landscape Poet
08-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Just pour some soap on the lawn and it will all be alright :D .....
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turfmd101
08-25-2012, 02:07 PM
Just pour some soap on the lawn and it will all be alright :D .....
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Getting old! First you shake power not pour it. Remember that. It will help you. I don't think you get it. I'll lay it down for ya. Anyone know the name of the plant, that grows everywhere & is usually sprayed with non -selective herbicide that can aid dramatically in reducing your turf
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turfmd101
08-25-2012, 02:12 PM
Just pour some soap on the lawn and it will all be alright :D .....
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Getting old! First you shake power not pour it. Remember that. It will help you. I don't think you get it. I'll lay it down for ya. Anyone know the name of the plant, that grows everywhere & is usually sprayed with non -selective herbicide, that can aid dramatically in reducing your turf populations of webworms? Talk about IPM. I don't want to be an a** but here goes. If you can't name it, you don't know what you should & should get off the sidewalk when I walk by! By the way. "Your a poet and you know it!
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Getting old! First you shake power not pour it. Remember that. It will help you. I don't think you get it. I'll lay it down for ya. Anyone know the name of the plant, that grows everywhere & is usually sprayed with non -selective herbicide, that can aid dramatically in reducing your turf populations of webworms? Talk about IPM. I don't want to be an a** but here goes. If you can't name it, you don't know what you should & should get off the sidewalk when I walk by! By the way. "Your a poet and you know it!
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Not sure why anyone would want to kill a Neem tree. And how is spraying with non-selective herbicides IPM?

Landscape Poet
08-25-2012, 02:24 PM
A grass that grows every where that...which webworms prefer over sa is crabgrass as it is sweeter to them and more tender if i recall. That is why they generally will eat it first. But what the heck do i know i am just a lawn boy and not a turf expert with the knowledge like you.
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turfmd101
08-25-2012, 02:27 PM
Not sure why anyone would want to kill a Neem tree. And how is spraying with non-selective herbicides IPM?

Not talking about a Neem tree. I ment more plant not arbor.
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ReddensLawnCare
08-25-2012, 02:29 PM
To the original post, I was in onancock, va at my inlaws house last weekend and we found about 1/2 dozen in his st. Augustine yard. Something that I wouldn't believe unless I saw it with my own eyes was that he has a gorgeous st. Augustine yard. For those that don't know, onancock is 25 miles south of Maryland and on the eastern shore so their climate is not like the rest of va. I didnt think they could live that far up north.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 02:34 PM
Still trying to wrap my pea brain around the use of a non-selective weed killer in an IPM program and in an area where webworms would be.

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 02:50 PM
Still trying to wrap my pea brain around the use of a non-selective weed killer in an IPM program and in an area where webworms would be.

Round up's AI, IS part of an IPM program. It's only used when necessary, last straw. Listen I only speak of my area CF. anywhere else out of my playground. In MY area webworms live at ground levels. Not in trees or rather, above ground.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Round up's AI, IS part of an IPM program. It's only used when necessary, last straw. Listen I only speak of my area CF. anywhere else out of my playground. In MY area webworms live at ground levels. Not in trees or rather, above ground.
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So you spray the grass with Round Up and starve the webworms as a part of your IPM porgram? :laugh:

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 03:18 PM
So you spray the grass with Round Up and starve the webworms as a part of your IPM porgram? :laugh:
That doesn't even make sense. I guess you never understood the original question.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 03:24 PM
That doesn't even make sense. I guess you never understood the original question.
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Go back and re-read your question / comment. :nono:

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 03:30 PM
So you spray the grass with Round Up and starve the webworms as a part of your IPM porgram? :laugh:

Just because you haven't caught on yet to what webworms prefer over turf grass varieties doesn't mean it's nonexistent. It's been happening for years. 14 at my residence.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 03:32 PM
Just because you haven't caught on yet to what webworms prefer over turf grass varieties doesn't mean it's nonexistent. It's been happening for years. 14 at my residence.
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I have not caught on to what lawn weed is most often treated with a NON-Selective Herbicide.

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 04:01 PM
I have not caught on to what lawn weed is most often treated with a NON-Selective Herbicide.

It's not typically in the turf. To much maintenance going on ( a mower every week!). It can survive, but to much trouble. Usually grows next to turf fine. As for the weeds treated in St. Aug with a non selective herb. would be any monocot. Know what that is?
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cgaengineer
08-25-2012, 04:02 PM
I have not caught on to what lawn weed is most often treated with a NON-Selective Herbicide.

Maybe dallis?
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turfmd101
08-25-2012, 04:20 PM
If you've seen it. What I refer to they hang in droves . Most in central Fl hate it.
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jvanvliet
08-25-2012, 05:31 PM
I'm lost. When I wash the turf, do I need to wash rinse repeat?

Patriot Services
08-25-2012, 05:42 PM
I'm lost. When I wash the turf, do I need to wash rinse repeat?

Don't forget conditioner for a silky soft lawn you can't help but touch.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Maybe dallis?
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Dallis is nasty but there are some selective treatments. Expensive but available.

Duekster
08-25-2012, 05:48 PM
It's not typically in the turf. To much maintenance going on ( a mower every week!). It can survive, but to much trouble. Usually grows next to turf fine. As for the weeds treated in St. Aug with a non selective herb. would be any monocot. Know what that is?
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I do not know of a single lawn grass weed to treat with non-selectives.

cgaengineer
08-25-2012, 05:57 PM
I'm lost. When I wash the turf, do I need to wash rinse repeat?

Yes, and add fabric softener. Wash warm, cold rinse and hang to dry.
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turfmd101
08-25-2012, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE=Duekster;4509529]I do not know of a single lawn grass weed to treat with non-selectives.[/QUif

What do you use to treat Bermuda in St. Aug? Or match weed effectively. Or doveweed. Or mature tropical crabgrass. You want more?
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=Duekster;4509529]I do not know of a single lawn grass weed to treat with non-selectives.[/QUif

What do you use to treat Bermuda in St. Aug? Or match weed effectively. Or doveweed. Or mature tropical crabgrass. You want more?
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You do not use a non-selective to remove Bermuda from SA.

jvanvliet
08-25-2012, 07:40 PM
[QUOTE=turfmd101;4509570]

You do not use a non-selective to remove Bermuda from SA.

You do if you want to re-sod.:laugh:

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 08:00 PM
[QUOTE=turfmd101;4509570]

You do not use a non-selective to remove Bermuda from SA.


Then what's your non mechanical method. Or what's you're selective herbicide choices.
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Patriot Services
08-25-2012, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=Duekster;4509581]


Then what's your non mechanical method. Or what's you're selective herbicide choices.
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Ric has a mix that works well. But, I don't think he will part with the recipe.
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Duekster
08-25-2012, 09:41 PM
[QUOTE=turfmd101;4509673]

Ric has a mix that works well. But, I don't think he will part with the recipe.
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I know Ric can do it.

I doubt he uses non selectives on SA trying to kill Bermuda. SA should choke out Bermuda. All you need to do is manage to SA's advantage.

jvanvliet
08-25-2012, 10:00 PM
[QUOTE=Patriot Services;4509751]

I know Ric can do it.

I doubt he uses non selectives on SA trying to kill Bermuda. SA should choke out Bermuda. All you need to do is manage to SA's advantage.

I think he posted it sometime back.

turfmd101
08-25-2012, 10:26 PM
I'm sorry. You won't find a selective herbicide labeled for St. Aug that is effective on Bermuda. Plus wild Bermuda is native to Fl. St Aug not even native to earth. Only the best cared for St Aug can minimize Bermuda potential.
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WestGaPineStraw
08-25-2012, 11:39 PM
[QUOTE=Patriot Services;4509751]

I know Ric can do it.

I doubt he uses non selectives on SA trying to kill Bermuda. SA should choke out Bermuda. All you need to do is manage to SA's advantage.

Atrazine above label rate with several other goodies will do it.
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Duekster
08-26-2012, 10:48 AM
I'm sorry. You won't find a selective herbicide labeled for St. Aug that is effective on Bermuda. Only the best cared for St Aug can minimize Bermuda potential.
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That much is true but not how you framed the question above.

Ric
08-26-2012, 11:49 AM
[QUOTE=turfmd101;4509673]

Ric has a mix that works well. But, I don't think he will part with the recipe.
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[QUOTE=Duekster;4509769]

I think he posted it sometime back.

I didn't post about it. Gregory Posted a Picture of his lawn after I gave him the Chemicals and instructions to kills Bermuda in St Augustine. I given or traded samples to a couple LS Members.

.

Duekster
08-26-2012, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Patriot Services;4509751]

[QUOTE=jvanvliet;4509789]

I didn't post about it. Gregory Posted a Picture of his lawn after I gave him the Chemicals and instructions to kills Bermuda in St Augustine. I given or traded samples to a couple LS Members.

.

I do not think I ever stated you posted your formula, I know you mentioned being able to do it. Trust that if you say you can then you can.
'
It appears some quotes and links are screwed up too.

Ric
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
I do not think I ever stated you posted your formula, I know you mentioned being able to do it. Trust that if you say you can then you can.
'
It appears some quotes and links are screwed up too.

I am fixing to sell off all my L&O accounts and only do Structural Pest Control. Depending on who buys my account will determine if they get my recipes. In fact depending on the deal, I may be willing to train and sponsor the right individual until they were certified. But I am tired of those who think my accounts and knowledge are not worth paying for. I spend both money and sweat to know what I know. Why should I give it way?

.

Duekster
08-26-2012, 03:36 PM
I am fixing to sell off all my L&O accounts and only do Structural Pest Control. Depending on who buys my account will determine if they get my recipes. In fact depending on the deal, I may be willing to train and sponsor the right individual until they were certified. But I am tired of those who think my accounts and knowledge are not worth paying for. I spend both money and sweat to know what I know. Why should I give it way?

.

Because I live in Texas and I am a nice guy? :laugh:

Ric
08-26-2012, 09:14 PM
Because I live in Texas and I am a nice guy? :laugh:

A stack of Benjamins is even nicer.

I am tired of people wanting Free help. Last guy I Tried to help wanted to hold a Spray card from me and still do all his own illegal applications. I was sucker enough to let him until he messed up. I had to treat a yard to save it for him. When I charged him $ 150 for fungicide on over 20,000 sq ft, He complained I was cheating him. T storm cost me over $ 90 alone. I was pretty much doing the job at cost. I won't name names but once burnt, twice caution. Any one I take under my wing from now on is paying up front.

.

turfmd101
08-26-2012, 10:33 PM
A stack of Benjamins is even nicer.

I am tired of people wanting Free help. Last guy I Tried to help wanted to hold a Spray card from me and still do all his own illegal applications. I was sucker enough to let him until he messed up. I had to treat a yard to save it for him. When I charged him $ 150 for fungicide on over 20,000 sq ft, He complained I was cheating him. T storm cost me over $ 90 alone. I was pretty much doing the job at cost. I won't name names but once burnt, twice caution. Any one I take under my wing from now on is paying up front.

.way to go letting that go on. Good way of helping insects become resistant
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ReddensLawnCare
08-26-2012, 10:48 PM
way to go letting that go on. Good way of helping insects become resistant
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I probably shouldn't chime in, but what are you talking about.
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turfmd101
08-26-2012, 11:25 PM
How insects become resistant.

Landscape Poet
08-27-2012, 05:55 AM
way to go letting that go on. Good way of helping insects become resistant
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Oh and we all all thought Bugs lit into him, this should be very interesting if things play out the way I am thinking they will *trucewhiteflag*

ReddensLawnCare
08-27-2012, 07:17 AM
How insects become resistant.

What does fungicide have to do with that?
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turfmd101
08-27-2012, 08:54 AM
What does fungicide have to do with that?
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Different food for thought. You guys know me by know (DA) . Get it... OK HERE GOES.

This guy who screwed up. Seems to me that this guy doesn't know arithmetic, so he won't be successful at calibration. Like bucket checking 101. If you do not deliver a lethal dose to a target pest. That pest is given the opportunity to build resistance. See the snake handler, who gets bit by a snake and survives has the chance to build resistance. The handler who gets bit and dies does not get that same chance. "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE™". But rebounding from an attack does. Say the first day bifenthrin hit the street. This guy gets some. Seems to me ... he will probably missapp his treatment. You know, because he screwed up! Well the chinch don't die, it's been over 15 days. Haven't seen 'em. So the building blocks of resistance start to form. I don't believe over application causes resistance. Over application is ok as long as you KILL WHAT YOUR TRYING TO KILL! . Again "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE. IT'S DEAD ™". Now over application is not my target promotion here. Killing your target pest is. Resistance started it's building blocks day one when bifen hit the streets. I don't believe day 2 or 8 or day 289 after bifen hit the street that over application had already begun. I believe that takes a while longer and by the time it has any effect. Well, miss application has taken center stage and proudly owns it. All because this guy let another guy illegally use his ticket. Poor decision IMO. I got alot of crap for suggesting powder laundry detergent (by the way. no resistance to soap) . Let's see how this gets discussed shall we? Come on I know you wanna drill me.
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turfmd101
08-27-2012, 09:00 AM
FS. Thanks for leaving us arena $$$$$$.
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Duekster
08-27-2012, 09:33 AM
Different food for thought. You guys know me by know (DA) . Get it... OK HERE GOES.

This guy who screwed up. Seems to me that this guy doesn't know arithmetic, so he won't be successful at calibration. Like bucket checking 101. If you do not deliver a lethal dose to a target pest. That pest is given the opportunity to build resistance. See the snake handler, who gets bit by a snake and survives has the chance to build resistance. The handler who gets bit and dies does not get that same chance. "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE™". But rebounding from an attack does. Say the first day bifenthrin hit the street. This guy gets some. Seems to me ... he will probably missapp his treatment. You know, because he screwed up! Well the chinch don't die, it's been over 15 days. Haven't seen 'em. So the building blocks of resistance start to form. I don't believe over application causes resistance. Over application is ok as long as you KILL WHAT YOUR TRYING TO KILL! . Again "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE. IT'S DEAD ™". Now over application is not my target promotion here. Killing your target pest is. Resistance started it's building blocks day one when bifen hit the streets. I don't believe day 2 or 8 or day 289 after bifen hit the street that over application had already begun. I believe that takes a while longer and by the time it has any effect. Well, miss application has taken center stage and proudly owns it. All because this guy let another guy illegally use his ticket. Poor decision IMO. I got alot of crap for suggesting powder laundry detergent (by the way. no resistance to soap) . Let's see how this gets discussed shall we? Come on I know you wanna drill me.
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Couple of things, He let the guy use his ticket to be an apprentice but the guy was doing side jobs thus screwing Ric. Ric went in and made it right even though his company did not get the money.

We understand resistance and the pesticde treadmill, most of us do. The question was how a fungicide caused insect Resistance.

ReddensLawnCare
08-27-2012, 09:47 AM
Different food for thought. You guys know me by know (DA) . Get it... OK HERE GOES.

This guy who screwed up. Seems to me that this guy doesn't know arithmetic, so he won't be successful at calibration. Like bucket checking 101. If you do not deliver a lethal dose to a target pest. That pest is given the opportunity to build resistance. See the snake handler, who gets bit by a snake and survives has the chance to build resistance. The handler who gets bit and dies does not get that same chance. "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE™". But rebounding from an attack does. Say the first day bifenthrin hit the street. This guy gets some. Seems to me ... he will probably missapp his treatment. You know, because he screwed up! Well the chinch don't die, it's been over 15 days. Haven't seen 'em. So the building blocks of resistance start to form. I don't believe over application causes resistance. Over application is ok as long as you KILL WHAT YOUR TRYING TO KILL! . Again "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE. IT'S DEAD ™". Now over application is not my target promotion here. Killing your target pest is. Resistance started it's building blocks day one when bifen hit the streets. I don't believe day 2 or 8 or day 289 after bifen hit the street that over application had already begun. I believe that takes a while longer and by the time it has any effect. Well, miss application has taken center stage and proudly owns it. All because this guy let another guy illegally use his ticket. Poor decision IMO. I got alot of crap for suggesting powder laundry detergent (by the way. no resistance to soap) . Let's see how this gets discussed shall we? Come on I know you wanna drill me.
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That didn't answer my question at all?
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Ric
08-27-2012, 01:16 PM
Couple of things, He let the guy use his ticket to be an apprentice but the guy was doing side jobs thus screwing Ric. Ric went in and made it right even though his company did not get the money.

We understand resistance and the pesticde treadmill, most of us do. The question was how a fungicide caused insect Resistance.

Turfmd101

The person in question is no dummy by any means or I wouldn't have gotten together with them. What they had was Gray Leaf spot and they didn't have the Equipment to spray a Fungicide.

This individual was far better educated on Pesticides than the average TG/CL Newbie and was already a Limited License holder. If I was adding to pesticide Resistances by giving them a Spray Card then every New Card Holder is also adding to Pesticide Resistances.

I was wrong for posting my personal gripes about networking gone bad. Every side has their story and I am sure this person has there complaints about me that might be well founded.

.

turfmd101
08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
I guess I read into what Ric said too much. Its just typically when an apprentice screws up its because they burn something and not because they cause a cultural problem that requires fungicide. All pesticides have the ability to lose their effectiveness , and this apprentice will more likely be applying the three primary ones. Fungicide does not cause insect resistance. Someone who knows more about labels and applications than horticulture causes resistance IMO. I would not help someone by letting them operate under my license that did not share most of the same understandings I have for what I do. Anyone can try to practice horticulture, but not everyone carries the ability to practice it responsibly or understand it properly . IMO, anyone who would be working under a pest license and require another tech. to correct their screw up and not know themselves they need T-Storm. Or not know how to correct their situation, passed, to easily the requirements needed to hold the ticket he is working under. TEACH HIM HORTICULTURE. IMO. I'm probably to critical. I just think it should not be so easy to get a card pulled for pesticide use by someone who will be aiding and abetting the loss of functional pesticides. I feel if I would have interviewed this tech I would have seen the signs. My daughter wants to drive now she is 17. Her twin brother , no problem , he gets it. My daughter she does not get it. Even though she is of age and eligible, no license yet not till she is ready. That's the point, she won't know when she is ready I will. I mean what the hell could of gone on that you needed to treat with a systemic contact fungicide anyway. Is that fungicide needed because he had BP and put down AS? Just doesn't sound as if he is ready to ticket hold and those guys ruin things for the guys who are ready. EX;this guy will aid in building resistance to pesticides which kinda includes fungicides.

turfmd101
08-27-2012, 02:49 PM
I'm sorry to continually sound like a know-it-all. I hear you. but that's my point about the situation. Gray Leaf spot is going to be the most common fungi problem a tech deals with, that is def 101 kind of fungi. If gray leaf spot is able to get to the point of T-Storm on someone, that's exactly the the kind of low experience i am worried about. If this person doesn't know indian hawthorne "will get red leaf spot" and when they are wet and shady it will never go away in that situation and there is no treatable fungicide for it that's credible and it is only minimized correctly through proper cultural practices. IMO this person is not ready yet. I don't think everyone needs this dialect but it directly effects product usage and abuseage. which leads to the resistance thingy.

turfmd101
08-27-2012, 04:23 PM
I forgot the part about him not having the equipment. Let's look it over. He picked up an account 20,000 square. He doesn't have a backpack, because thats equipment . GLF starts slow. Is more often effecting lower, poorly mowed turfgrass especially when it's this wet. If you have 20,000 square loaded up. Better try to grow it out because as bad as it is even T-Storm will struggle. You need to treat!!! But T-Storm? I'm sorry but letting it get to "that" level of aid. Requires less than someone well enough experienced let alone someone with a card. IMO. Yea he may know alot about pesticides. Just not enough about horticulture. For if he did simple GLS could not be at the level you describe.
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turfmd101
08-27-2012, 07:11 PM
This individual was far better educated on Pesticides than the average TG/CL Newbie and was already a Limited License holder. If I was adding to pesticide Resistances by giving them a Spray Card then every New Card Holder is also adding to Pesticide Resistances.



Yes very much. But not 100%.

possible alternative; root system
St. Aug typically handles GLS. Even if severe.
At the stage described. Its most likely has a dis functional root system.
Great as T-Storm is, may not help with systemic action.
2 - 3 apps K-Mag at .5 lb/1000sf.
give St. Aug back the tools it needs to fight.


possible alternative; foliage
cheap fungicide. all fungicides carry GLS, its too common.
at your described melt out. St. Aug is doing its job and forcing senescence to rid it self of the pest spores.
even rarely at this stage will the plant damage, but it will appear different, but that much foliage melt looks as though the plant is suffering."its ugly".
sounds like soon enough there will be no more foliage to attack. and populations will decline naturally.

sept, oct, & nov are St. Aug best time to recover as the fall flush of new foliage begins.
but keep up the potassium because IMO. that will defeat this pest superior to fungicides.

plus your cost could have been 20% to 30% cheaper.i know he is lacking equipment but a spreader for K-Mag he doesn't have that either.

out of control for an experienced person are two things that should not be in the same sentence.

Landscape Poet
08-27-2012, 08:25 PM
turfmd

do not take offense to this but you are making a lot of assumptions about the property without having been there and knowing the facts. Ric is a experienced applicator and has proved himself to have a great wealth of knowledge on this board. I am assuming that his choice of fungicides was for a reason and that if he states the original applicator has good knowledge that it is so. No matter the applicators experience everyone makes a mistake here or there especially when they first get started I am assuming. Nobody knows it all and most likely experience failure of some sort along the way.

turfmd101
08-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Heard.

only 1 thing causes GLS no matter where St. Aug lives. It's environmental conditions.
same fungi same host. not dictated by the landscape. GLS develops due to environmental conditions any day any time that its existence is favored environmentally.
add excess N & H2O on top of stress and poof spores are born like magic.
no offense taken thanks for the advice.